Episode 31 - Navigating the Building Industry's Path Forward with Barak Steenlage
Episode #31 | Barak Steenlage | Business Practices and the Future of the Industry
Barak Steenlage a custom home builder in Minnesota joins Mark to discuss the evolution of Anchor Builders. They discuss the challenges of custom home design and keeping projects on budget. Barak describes his involvement with NARI (National Association of the Remodeling Industry) and how it has helped him grow as a builder. They also cover topics like company culture, land development, and the future of the industry.
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About Barak Steenlage
The Anchor story starts on the family farm where John, Barak and Tim first tackled building projects together. Later they would join a custom home builders' crew to pay for college. Working on that framing crew, they began to talk about how they would do things differently to improve the construction-client experience and ensure the highest quality standards on every job. The brothers’ vision took shape when they formed Anchor Builders in 2005. Since then, it has continued to improve with the latest project management systems, communication tools, and best building practices.
Today, Anchor Builders is an award-winning design-build firm that includes a highly skilled in-house framing team. Design-Build is the foundation of Anchor’s ability to conceptualize, design, and deliver extraordinary custom home environments on time and on budget. By relying on its own staff to conceive and construct complex projects, Anchor assumes total responsibility and accountability for clear communication and reliable results. At Anchor, fit & finish go beyond tight joints and smooth surfaces. We know if Anchor and its clients are a good fit for each other, the entire design-build process will end well.
Anchor only works with a dozen or so clients each year. We choose our relationships carefully; so should you. Anchor clients tend to be positive professionals who appreciate craftsmanship, invest in long-term quality-of-life solutions, and communicate clearly. While most Anchor projects are home additions, large remodels, and new homes as those fit well with our on-staff architectural and interior designers, project managers, and carpenters. We also fill in with smaller projects and ones that are partially or fully designed. If you are looking for a guided, collaborative design-build experience, consider joining the Anchor Dozen.
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If we can separate ourselves and our worth from the business. Look, Mark's got a 10 year relationship with this designer and that took a long time to establish is not going to probably just roll that to the curb. But who knows, maybe Mark is going to meet some other builder who is looking for that new relationship and say, Hey, I met this really impressive designer. I don't have any work for right now. But you should definitely call her
I can clearly see why you're a coach because everything you're saying right now I'm not even like that. That's really wise. Today in the careers builder podcast, we have Deci, Cresswell and deci really shares her story of being a designer, coming right out of college and getting the reins to run a design for a YMCA in a commercial space, launching off into becoming her own interior designer, and then essentially getting burned out. Once she went into motherhood, trying to understand like how do I balance being a mom being a designer running a business, and she turned to coaching and it really became very fulfilling as she was able to help her clients navigate the mindset of being a business owner, and really going after the best fits for these interior designers. One thing that really stood out as well was just what she said that if she could go back in the beginning and give herself advice, she said that it doesn't have to be perfect to get started. So without further ado, let's talk with Jesse Cresswell on the curious builder podcast.
Welcome to the curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host and today I'm joined with Jesse Criswell, thanks for coming on Destiny.
Thanks for having me, Mark.
Well, you have a very interesting resume. I was introduced to you because as I was starting my podcast, someone recommended I check out your podcast, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about who you are and some of your diverse background as we get started here?
Sure. So I'm Desi Cresswell, and currently a life and business coach for interior designers. My career really started out in commercial interior design. So that's where it all began. And I did luxury hospitality, a lot of higher ed for a fun international project, and then did some consulting for a hotel brand. And then I decided I should start my own business, because why not? Right, right. Like, that was kind of a naive choice. But I did. So I started that I worked in residential with my own practice for quite a while, and then burned myself out, became my ideal client, essentially, who I coach now, and became certified as a life coach after hiring a coach for myself to kind of manage motherhood, work, having ambitions and goals, but also wanting to have those in my personal life, too. And that's when I ended up starting my own coaching practice. And the that brings us today.
Wow, that's a lot to unpack. Let's, let's go to the beginning. So what was your path to design and working with these companies that you were working with before you started your own business? Did you know you want to get into design? Did you go to school? Did you had mentors, like walk us through like how you got there?
Well, the way that I ended up in design is actually a little bit of a funny random story. But I went to University of Wisconsin Madison, I thought I wanted to be a dermatologist and got into school, then I was like, Oh my gosh, these like 300 person lecture halls with all the like advanced things, math, chemistry, I'm like, okay, maybe this was not the best idea. Somehow I ended up in a design fundamentals course, really liked that. And then during your pre
med year in the design fundamentals courses, that must have been an elective or what Yes,
somehow, I think I decided to defer like what are some of those advanced math classes called I can't even remember
like, oh, yeah, what were they call that ad? Well, yeah, in high school, you mean where you basically post credit? Okay, I
can't. Clearly this was a while ago now. So I couldn't remember. I can't remember what that was. But, um, so I ended up enrolling in a couple of other classes because I was like, Whoa, I took on way too much for my very first semester in college. And then I ended up in this class, but I was still in chemistry because I did love science and math. So anyways, I adored my chemistry professor. And I was also in a sorority, and the sorority had these things called Professor nights where you could invite your professor over for dinner and we'd show them around the house and have a really beautiful meal. So I invited my chemistry professor, and I'm talking to him and it turns out his wife's an interior designer and she has her own business. She has this kind of like Co Op situation, where she's with a few other designers. interest, they pull their resources, but I'll have independent businesses. So I'm talking to him very cool. And he's like, You should go talk to her. So I went, and I talked to her. And I ended up that being my first internship. And I mean, I think relationships are everything. So like, the trickle effect of that just in itself was one of the first people that I met at that firm knew someone else at another firm, where I then got hired as a commercial intern, that particular woman who was the director of interiors, she wanted to take the summer off to be with her kids. So she left me in charge of this huge YMCA project while I'm still in college. And so it's sink or swim. Yes, but I swam. Yeah. And so anyways, I was able to get this glowing recommendation from her. And I ended up getting an interview at the firm that I wanted to work at in Chicago. I told them how I was leading this project. Yeah, that's pretty Yeah. They were like, Okay, we got sounds good. I can remember the founder of the company being like, well, I've heard enough. And then you're like, 23? At this time, right? 20 would have been 21. Maybe even one? Wow. 20 Maybe 22? Yeah. So I worked there. Yeah. And then this is gonna be a long, windy path here. This is cool. But, um, so I worked there. And then we ended up moving to Minnesota for my husband's residency. And the HR person at that firm that I worked with knew the HR person at the firm I wanted to work at in Minnesota or Minneapolis. So that's how I ended up working at Perkins as well. And then Oh, and there's a fun tangent in here to your I'm Yeah,
I find that this is the interesting part of just seeing like sometimes even when you're telling your story, you forget parts, like you just see like.
So when we first moved here, I didn't have a job. We moved here without me having a secured position. And the first position I had was on contract with this commercial hospitality firm, that I ended up connecting with the lady because my mom was sitting next to her at this outdoor movie theater and telling her about me. Oh, my and so I mean, it's just wild how it is wild. Yeah. Oh, thank you, mom. Yeah, so it's, it's all about those relationships,
a lot about relationships on the podcast, but I think just in general, I mean, relationships are so key to, you know, like, in my field of building a home, like if I don't have a relationship, obviously, with the trade partners, with the clients. I mean, to me, it's the most important thing. And, you know, building is not alone in that, I think pretty much any career, I think when you focus on relationships, and also, I wish I think I had good mentors for sure around me at early age, but I also think, like just listening to your gut and following I mean, you had a very, your path seemed very well, it seems maybe all over the place a little bit. It you always seem to have followed, who you connected with. And so you know, it started with that professor, his wife, and then so on. But that was left by relationships, and you obviously did a good job, because they kept recommending you. So, you know, the relationship does gets you in the door, but then what you do after it obviously keeps you there. So that's very interesting. So, so walk us through, so you're gonna start a business now you're in Minnesota at this time. Yep. And you're going to be an interior designer. And so you what was the name of the of your company?
It was I was just thinking about that Desi interior design.
Okay. Yeah. And who was your clientele? Who is your ideal clients that you were trying
to attract? I worked with distinguished professionals is what I, you know, described to them as they were entrepreneurs, lawyers, doctors, the key thing that they really had in common was they wanted to have a beautiful home that was presentable, and luxurious, for entertaining and sort of fitting that outward persona of what someone might expect coming over to their house, but they also all had small children that, you know, would beat things up. And that's really where my hospitality design background came into play. Because people are so rough on things in a hotel room. So I knew how to make it look right. Interesting side and be indestructible.
That's yeah, having three kids that sounds you have two children's that right? Yeah, I mean, I definitely sometimes when we are in design, and people are asking for certain things, you know, like, you know, like, for instance, wood, like wainscoting, a lot of people will say like, I really like wainscoting the way it looks and often bring up actually it also is really resilient against you know, let's say your kids or school bags, you know, there's rollerskates or who knows what they're doing in the house, but especially up and down stairways, which just get absolutely, you know, beat and I was actually in a design meeting today. And the client said I'd really liked that. I said, that's a good choice because she's got three young hockey boys. And you know, they live hard. And I said, this is really good to protect, you know, the walls. I'd said he might actually want to do some wainscoting in your main level. These boys are very, very rambunctious. And so anyway, so we'll see where that goes. But giving that feedback. Yeah. What, when so when you were designing with your clients, where were most of your leads coming from? I mean, you did you take some of your commercial clients and you already had relationships since you were seemed to be pretty good at developing these relationships. Did you already have a few, let's say, people waiting in the wings when you started your, your business? Or did you start your business and then go look for a few people to work for originally?
Well, I was this, this goes back sometimes now I'm like, What am I telling you? I just sound like I just kind of want to wander around and like find people to talk to I guess. No, the the first client I had was actually another partner, where my husband is now. And we were at a picnic at someone's house. And I was just chatting with her by the lake and telling her how I had this hospitality hotel background. And she goes, Oh, I need a mother in law's sweet design. Could you come over and do it for me? So I said, Sure, I can I can do that. And that was really the start of it. And didn't really then became referral based,
right? How did you at that point? Were you already? Did you already have like an LLC or a company or set up? Or it was really that was before I even had any of that setup?
I don't think so. I'm very good at figuring things out. So you have to be as an eye. Yeah. Then I got to work on a website contracts, all the legal stuff sales tax.
Do you remember what you charged her? Like, hourly at that time?
I don't I have no idea. Yeah.
I was just curious, like, from a commercial background, like hourly rates versus residential, like I've seen in our market residential, anywhere from like, you know, 120 152, you know, 130 280 an hour? It kind of depends on what level of service and sometimes, you know, the lead designer might obviously charge more, but they might have an associate or you know, someone in training that they'll maybe bill out at, like 90 or $100. I was just curious if commercial was any
question. No, I know, the in commercial there is that fee structure where there's different levels of rates? And but I mean, it was just me, myself and I
Yeah, yeah. No, I was just curious if you remembered, I mean, I, sometimes there's certain numbers that stick out in my head, I won't remember necessarily, I'd remember some of the early fee structures that I had. But when I was building homes, but some of us like, I remember very clearly like a sale price on a particular home at a particular time.
Okay. Yeah, the thing that I do remember, though, is my first year in business, I made more total per year working for myself, then I did in like a salaried position with commercial design. And I mean, I worked like half the time. And wow, you know, I mean, because I was working very long hours in a commercial firm. And yeah, so that I remember and that been very like, wow, this is
I feel like a lot of people when they do launch out to start a business, I mean, sometimes it's a new idea, but a lot of times is you look around and you say, Well, I know I can do this, I'm competent. And I also know that if I'm going to put this kind of work in time, and like you were putting in a crazy amount of hours for your commercial contracts, you know, maybe you don't know what it's going to be at. But you're like, well, this now money is coming to me. So I feel like that's very attractive to entrepreneurs. Which would you agree with?
Oh, absolutely.
What? So walk us through the transition? And how many years? Were you an interior designer? Did you work with other builders? Or was it mostly clients came to you saying we need you to update our spaces? Or how far down let's say builder collaborations or remodeled or collaborations did you go as an interior designer?
Mainly, I worked with remodelers and then doing furniture, accessories, lighting, all of that sort of thing. Where clients would come directly to me, but a lot of times it was through a relationship again with a remodeler or builder, who had a project and they needed the expertise of an interior designer, realizing that they didn't want to necessarily be in charge of that, or shouldn't be.
Yep, I agree with the shouldn't be. We, you know, early on, actually, my mom was an interior designer for a long time. And so she was kind of a nice family story as well, people, I think, really appreciate it. Plus, she was actually very talented as well. But I think as our career progressed, you know, I've been building up for about 19 years. And I felt like, you know, there have been clients that want to self design. And that can be a really tricky, tricky proposition for the builder because a big part of the interior designer, you know, for the client is, you know, a big part of my job is making sure that the experience is enjoyable as well. I mean, I have to build a beautiful home, very competent run the business, but I also want the client to enjoy the ride, right? And I do feel like the more so than almost anyone else on the team, I feel like the interior designer is kind of like in charge of the fund. And I say that because it's it's kind of the fun, it's the sexy, it's the colorful, it's the bright and and it's, you know, it's the lights, it's the inner such cool lighting now, blown glass hadn't been made shout out to them. I mean, they do some incredible stuff. I've taken a tour of their facility. We're actually doing a live podcast there in June with Jackson Schwartz, the owner, so I'm really excited to do that. And I also Though just you know, just all the, it's all the things you touch and feel right. And some people really gravitate towards that. And some people like, you know, the engineering or the science behind building. But anyway, I guess what I'm saying with this is that the interior designer is very crucial for the clients experience, in my point of view, and I often talk about that early on at something I learned when I had a few that didn't have interior designers. And they were the clients knew what they wanted. It's not that they weren't capable. But they also it's something that they didn't know, they didn't know, because they couldn't really, so much that the interior designer brings to the team is just kind of first class service. You know, I've never thought about that. It's like the mint on the pillow at high end hotel. It's like, you know, your espresso served to you before you ordered it. I feel like an interior designer that's really keyed in on the client, and also knows the builder, because it does, it does have to be, you know, kind of symbiotic is they can just, they can just really, really add to the to the whole build in a way that is very special.
Oh, absolutely. I agree. And I think often when homeowners think oh, I'll do the design, like, it sounds fun. It sounds like I know what I'm want. So what could go wrong? But they're not thinking, oh, I need to pick out the ground and specify, do I want quarter inch or half inch spacing? Do I want to have it a brick pattern, 1/3 offset, I mean, there's so many details that just are not in their awareness which they shouldn't be, right, but when you see, but they don't really have a full understanding of what they're signing up for.
100% Sure. And that puts us in an awkward position, because they're also our client and the designer. So it's like, you know, have you made this selection, and then it anyway, it just leads to an experience that isn't going to be great. And so I really, really value our interior design partners. They're fabulous at what they do. And you know, I was just speaking to one recently. And she did such an amazing job. I mean, ultimately, you partner and have relationships with people that, you know, make you better versions of yourself, or I don't want to say make your job easier, they do do that. But that's selling it short. Because they they make your jobs just better, more sparkle more, just better, higher, elevate. It's like printing yourself with a good architect. You know, there's a lot of things that I don't see behind the scenes that they do that the end result, everyone wins. And I feel like the interior designer is a big part of that.
I'm gonna have to send that clip to my client. Yeah,
yeah, this is gonna be on YouTube and on the curious builder podcast website. So go ahead and get that right off the video.
Well, I feel like so many clients that I talked to. So we do a lot with time management and making sure that we're allocating time to deliver to clients on an excellent level, and also maintaining the back end, and marketing efforts and all of that to keep your business moving forward. Right. Because without those things, you have no business. And I think so many designers feel the word I hear is sleazy about marketing or wanting to network with builders. And I think it's it's coming from the mindset of I'm taking and not giving anything. And
you think interior designers that feel that way. Alright.
I've heard a lot of them say that. Yeah, don't see. Yeah. And you know, and you probably attract maybe it sounds like you have some really solidified relationships. And so you maybe aren't entering into those new relationships with the one that's weird. I don't know.
No, I can I understand. I mean, maybe I can rephrase the question to see if I understand exactly what you're saying. So you're saying that the interior designers feel like they're soliciting their work in a way that's not being received? Or what do you mean? Like they're afraid to ask for the work? I guess I don't understand what trepidation is.
Yeah. They they feel very awkward about setting up a meeting to say like, Hey, Mark, I love what you do. I think I could be a great asset to your team.
Man, I can tell you as a builder, like I'd be like, Great, awesome.
Exactly. But they are all picturing severe rejection on the other side of that, or not entering into the equation, the value that they bring to the project. Do you think and
you're a coach, so you tell me, is this a is this a personality trait in industry trait? Or like, is it an oversimplification of even like sex, meaning, like, most interior designers happen to be women. A lot of builders are men. I wish we had more women build because, frankly, women are just better at everything. I've said that a lot on this podcast. It's true. I told a couple of other people I work with as like from here on out, I'm only hiring women. They're just so much better. But anyway, my point in saying that is like, Do you think there's some stereotypes that bear true that like they're afraid to ask or they feel intimidated? Because you have is either the stereotype of this old gruff man builder who that is also a stereotype because a lot of the builders I know are not that way. Right. So I guess from your experience, how would you, how would you look at that?
Yeah, so I think that a lot of designers are perfectionists And so I think that there's some fear around not entering into the marketing or the networking in the quote unquote, right way, or they're going to come across a certain way that they don't want to be perceived as. So I think there's, there's some of that at play, I think that it is definitely a gender issue as well. Not even just with the stereotype of a old man builder, but just women in general, we're tend to give, give, give, and underestimate the value that we bring to the situation. So I think that often we aren't good at self validating or recognizing our own strength or the value that we bring to whatever situation we're in, we tend to negate that and diminish it. And so I think that's a huge part of it. And I think that goes across the board with women in general.
That's a really interesting point of view. I'd like to take a minute to thank our sponsors, and then we'll be right back to the curious builder podcast.
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Kimberly said from Sen and sons, she did a lot of a rebranding, she talked a little bit about her mindset, even as a female entrepreneur and some of the things that you're echoing there, it makes me just, you know, you want to be open to everyone as clearly I have a daughter, and I'm surrounded by these very talented women. So I'm like very, like I just said, All I want to do is hire and, and work with women, because I just feel like they're so talented. And they see they're more empathetic. And I feel like that's again, why in a predominantly male driven industry in building, that's probably why I've gravitated towards interior designers, I didn't realize that until you just said it that I think that the the emotional side of building, I feel like women are just so much more empathetic and better at reading the room than men are and for sure than I am. And so maybe that's why I've maybe not known or innately chosen to work in. That's why they're so important to me in a building process. Because I know that they together, both myself and them together can make the clients experience that much better. Plus, I love it when the interior designer can maybe, you know, take me aside or call me after and say, Hey, I think you know, the client, you know, could use a check in or I feel like they're really stressed out right now I feel like that collaboration. And I would say the same thing. I mean, I've called my interior designers as well and said, You know, I feel like they're they're feeling some price fatigue, you know, you know, what are you seeing? And so I feel like that, again, this is not meant to be sneaky. This is meant to like how can we together make the clients experience better. And that's something that we can do kind of behind the scenes, and then we can come back to them and and kind of solve the problem? Well, and
I get that that's getting to really the core of what I'm what we're talking about here is approaching your relationships, any kind of existing relationships or new ones that you want to establish as like we're on the same team, or we're here to serve the same purpose. And we're both bringing something really unique and valuable to the table and we're gonna help each other and have the client have a better experience because of that. It's not a I get I get something and you don't get in on
that person agree. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I can't imagine working in an environment like that. And it certainly wouldn't last very long if it did. So, I mean, I think one of the things that even having the podcast has helped me realize, I mean, I've always been a big fan of my trade partners because, you know, I know I'm not very handy. So My joke with my clients is like, if you see me working on your house, like called the project manager, something's gone drastically wrong. That's not my skill set. And so, you know, I'm a huge fan of, you know, millwork or painting and, you know, our cabinetry and tile work, and I just, I'm in awe of what they do. And I just love watching them, you know, you know, do their craft, and I, I love to celebrate them in front of the clients. And even when they're not, they're just saying, like, you know, hey, we have the best cabinet guy. I mean, I, I really do believe that he's amazing. Rich's awesome. And you know, our trimmers, Todd, and Tony. And so anyway, it becomes this very intimate process that I think comes across without even being salesy. And I think you probably coach your people this way, I would even say, having the confidence of sent to, you know, to the designers that are looking for builders is if, you know, if you put yourself out there, if you are just introduce yourself and say, you know, this, this is what I do for design, I'd love to work with your clients, like, you know, you might not be the right fit, it might not be right at the right time. But that doesn't mean that them asking is wrong. In fact, it's right. And the more that you do that, and the more that you ask for work, the more competent you're going to be. And I and in perceived, because I think right now, especially with social media, you know, I can just speak for myself, like there's a lot of really talented designers in Minnesota, I think, just there are so many good ones. And I would love to work with all of them. So if you're listening, I want to work with you. That being said, like, it's hard, because, you know, I don't build that many homes, I build, you know, for high end homes a year, and, you know, four or five remodels. And, you know, I have two or three designers and you know, we usually have one that we're trying to work with, and maybe a new someone, and if they bring us work, of course, then we're going to work with them. But that doesn't seem to happen that much in our market, most of the building and remodeling seems to come through the builders first. And then we set the meetings with the designers and the architect team. And so sometimes it's hard for me like to go work with a new designer? Well, I would love to because I think their you know, their personality might be great, or their repertoire might be awesome. It's also like, well, then, you know, am I supposed to take a relationship? I already have, let's say a decade with and put it aside. So it's always what I guess what do you tell your your clients when you're coaching them? Like? Because you would know this, Hey, this builder might have a relationship? How do you advise them to sort of approach the builder and say, I can bring value to you know, give me a shot. But more than that, I guess, where do you go from there?
I think that it is really approaching the relationship with out the expectation that there's going to be any type of immediate return, or like for like exchange, I think you never know who you're going to meet who they're going to know how that's going to, you just never know. I mean, take the example of my mom sitting next to this woman at an outdoor movie theater. Right? Right. Like she wasn't talking to this woman to try and get me a position. It was she just was being herself out in the world. And I think that's what we forget in business is that we can just be real humans, and interact with the other humans. And we're
humans, people, although AI is taking over pretty quick, but over an hour, we're all human.
Yeah. And I think the other big piece of it is, if it's a no or not right now from someone, that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you. Right? I think that's our immediate tendency is to make it mean something about our business that we're don't have, like, we're not legit enough, right? Or, you know, whatever it is. And if we can, if we can separate ourselves and are worth from the business, and it'd been a look, Mark's got a 10 year relationship with this designer. And that took a long time to establish who's not going to probably just throw that to the curb. Like that doesn't mean anything about you, right? But who knows, maybe Mark is going to meet some other builder who is looking for that new relationship and say, Hey, I met this really impressive designer. I don't have any work for right now. But you should definitely call her,
I can clearly see why you're a coach, because everything you're saying right now, I'm not saying like that, that's really wise. Because you're 100% Right, I'm looking at it a little bit like almost like architects, right? So he has a builder, let's say you're you want to develop relationships with a new architect. But likewise, they might have some preferred general contractors that they're already working with, you know, and it's a it's a long term relationship. And I think someone else had mentioned this once. And I think this is really all industries, all business this advice is applicable that, you know, let's say you post something on LinkedIn, or in you know, you'll get 20 You know, hey, I want to send you these auto spam emails. I mean, you scam and you don't respond, I mean, because it's, it's just too much or how many emails do you get like, I've seen your website, I can improve it, here's fight, you know, it's just too much. But you know, someone I want said, like, you know, if you engage with my social media content for three months, six months, a year, however long and it's genuine, right, like they're following along, and then you know, at some point something opens up a designer leaves designer has a different phase of their life that something has changed. They, they might move, whatever the circumstances, there's an opportunity now guess what the person that you've seen their name, responding, liking, commenting, maybe you've seen them at social gatherings, you've seen them at builder events, design events, whatever You're, you know, you're engaged with, and now all of a sudden, this person, I'm thinking of someone exactly in my mind right now that I would like to work with her, she's always engaged with me, I just haven't had the right fit. But you know, she keeps this up. I mean, why wouldn't I turn to her, you know, when that when that door opens, when you have a change of, you know, they always say, whenever a company has a sales rep, that changes, there's opportunity, because, you know, a big company, let's say, you know, like we work with doesn't matter who, but let's just say you're, you're working with a big company, and you have a relationship with you deci. If you're my sales rep, you in some ways represent who the company is. But if you leave, now, there's kind of this whole and there's an opportunity. And so anyway, that's what comes to mind when I hear you.
Yeah, absolutely.
What? So how many years? Did you do you still design? I mean, you've kind of transitioned now into coaching, how long did you design, you kind of mentioned that you became your own ideal client? It's a little switch now towards coaching. So walk us through that transition.
I think I had my business for maybe eight years. Yeah, it was a while ago now. So I can't quite remember. Occasionally, I do come out of retirement. But just for we built a house. So I was the lead designer on that, obviously. And my husband's office had an expansion, so I did that for them. Yeah, but I want to retirement very selective very selectively. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
So how did you know you want to get into coaching walk us through that transition? Because I think it's really unique. I've never actually heard of a design specific business coach, which I've been told, in general, like, the more niche you can make your business. It's better because obviously, there's just you're competing against other loss coaches, right. I mean, if I'm going to look for a coach, and I'm a designer, is there a lot of design coaches? I've never heard of any.
There. There are starting to be quite a few more. Okay. When I started my business, I there was only one other coach that I was really aware of. Okay, and that was the one you hired to No, no. I hired a coach for moms. Oh, okay. Yeah, she was not related to my phone. Anyway. Yeah, I so when we had our first child, I didn't understand that maternity. Like, leave should be a thing. I just thought I just have the baby and then go back to like racing through life. Like as an
entrepreneur, I've done. I've got a business. I have a baby. I'm gonna do it all.
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I was, I can remember bringing my little one in a bucket seat to this, like, huge project I was working on. And I was just like, This is not what I what I was picturing. So fast forward to having our second child then no. And I was like, I'm not going to do that again. So I took a whole year off. But of course, being being who I am. And always, my wheels are always turning in, I was getting the itch to be working again, to be creative, to be out in the world a little bit more. And so I had been following along with the Life Coach School, Brooke Castillo is the founder. And really diving into that was sort of the start of learning about mindset work. And on the website, you can go and look at their coach directory. And I ended up finding this coach for moms. And the question that I came to her with when I heard her was, I feel like I need to figure out how much do I want to mom? And how much do I want to be a business owner? Like it was the simple math equation, like I'll work 12.5 hours as a business owner, and then I'll have this many hours for myself and this many hours for my kids. And, of course, it's not that simple. So she started working with me, and we really covered a lot of different ground. Not really related to what do I want to do with my business at all. And I don't even remember how we came to it. But she was like, I want you to write down like two things you could see yourself doing. And one of them. Is this. What I'm doing today, podcasting or coaching, coaching, okay, but also, I mean, being still being in the design community and serving the design community just in a different way. And yeah, so I had that idea. I sat on it for a really long time. kind of went back to design a little bit like, it was one of those where every time I decide, okay, I'm finally done. The phone would ring. Yeah. And I feel like sure I could help you. Sure. So and you know, and I say this jokingly, but my husband thought my business was like, no one is gonna want that. So, yeah, so I spent a lot of time kind of convincing and selling him on the idea. Thanks for the support, honey. No, he is. He is like one of my biggest cheerleaders, but he's a very, like, logical, linear thinker. And he's just like, I just don't know why anyone would need this. So I think, you know, it's coming from a genuine place of like, I'm just trying to protect you from making a bad decision that okay, I like him again. Yeah, no, he's he is my biggest fan and biggest supporter. But so anyways, I kind of put it off, I tried convincing him because coach certification is very expensive through where I wanted to do it. And eventually, I convinced him that that this is going to be a good idea. Part of that was, I had connected with another designer in town, where I was going to help her with some potentially marketing things, which is something I really liked to do. And I started telling her about this idea that had percolated since I talked to my coach about it, I think, like a year prior or something. And then she said, Well, I'll be your guinea pig. So she was my first client. And then once I had that, and kind of this proof of concept that was when I enrolled in coach certification, love it. And the you know, got how long how long
did that accredit accreditation? Periodic
it six months? Oh, whoa, yeah. Yep. And I'm actually I'm becoming masters certified to the school right now. So that's an additional six months, it's a really involved process. Right. Yeah.
Well walk us through a little bit. I mean, I didn't realize it was that in depth, I think that's really interesting. So you've mentioned mindfulness, walk us through a little bit of some of the basic tenants of coaching, like, what are some of the things that you were either surprised with? Or like, oh, yeah, that's what I kind of knew coaching was going to be all about?
Well, it's really all about the structure, or the framework that I use is the self coaching model, which is something that the Life Coach School where I'm certified through teachers, and the premise is we've got neutral circumstances in our lives. We have a thought about those circumstances. So meet a thought meaning perception, judgment, interpretation, meaning we assigned to those circumstances, those thoughts, generate feelings, our feelings, fuel, our actions, and our actions produce our results.
So it's like this big circle of action. Exactly.
So the big, big thing here is thoughts are optional. I mean, that like that blew my mind when I bots are optional. Explain that to me. Yeah. So we get to choose, think about circumstances. And because our thoughts create our feelings, that also means we get to choose how we feel. And there's certain circumstances, of course, that we want to have opinions about, like, we might not agree that, you know, hurting others is bad. But we're not kind of talking about those types of things here. I'm not trying to argue that I think someone bullying someone else is, is okay. So I just always like to clear that up. But the the power that you have, then, when you can say this is what's happening, whether it's like a revenue number that's happened in your business, what's happening potentially, in the economy, what's happening in your own home? Right, when you are able to say, what are some other perspectives? What are other ways I could look at this, maybe the thought that my brain is presenting to me is not actual fact, even though it's being presented that way, influences everything I see. It opens up everything. Wow. And and I think what was so such a stark realization for me was, when I was working in commercial, I had a lot of, you know, pressure, anxiety, and a lot of overworking that resulted from all of that. And I started my own business, because I thought that that would solve for all of those things. And what I found was, I just brought all of that with me into my own business. And it's because I never changed the thought pattern. Interesting. It started with the thoughts of like, I have to work hard to prove myself, this has to be right, I can't ever get anything wrong. No one can see me sitting still. Right. And then I just brought those thoughts over into a new circumstance, and then was surprised that the circumstance wasn't dictating my experience or reality. It was my thought pattern that I brought with me, that was recreating the same result for myself.
That's super powerful that my first thought of that, as you're explaining this to me, because it makes a lot of sense when you break it down. Like that way. It's very psychological. But just the power of positive thinking. And how do you because obviously, if you're thinking positively about things, you can see how this whole cycle changes, right? If you're positively thinking about these thoughts, that positively energizes how you feel now your actions, I mean, it creates a pot, but I assume at some point, you can't just like, you know, your p&l statement, you could be losing 5000 a month in no matter how positive I spin that you're still losing 5000 a month, at what point you know, because you could be almost false positive in yourself if I guess if
that is not my style of coaching. All right. I think that's really where like positive affirmations and just like high vibes only type culture,
I never heard that term I liked that highlight is is not helpful.
Okay? Because you're right. You don't want to feel good about bad things. Bad things are things, there's honest things you need to be honest. Yeah, absolutely be honest. And it's not even always trying to get to a positive state. Like, if you were to think about emotions as a scale, right on one end is maybe despair or something like that. And then joy is on the other end, we don't always need to go from despair to joy. Sometimes we just need to go to like a matter of factness or compassion for ourselves of this is this feels really hard. Right? And so and I think that, depending on what you're working with, you want to think about like, do I actually want to feel good about this, and also is the thinking that I have around it serving me. So if your p&l is showing that you're losing $5,000 a month, you of course, don't want to be happy about it. But you also probably don't want to be making it me and my business is failing. I'm like, I'm never going to work again, right, because the emotions that that will produce for you and the following actions or likely inactions that will happen, are going to then just go to reinforce that original belief of this isn't going to work. Fascinating. And so you might want to think about what is an emotion or a thought I could have about this? That would give me give me a release from the pressure I'm feeling right now. That would keep me moving towards my goals, and allow space for the fact that yeah, I'm disappointed. So I think it's not a it's just slap a positive thought on it, right? No, I agree using your thinking, to really fuel the experience and actions that you want to be taking,
can you can you give me and the audience listening? Can you give me a practical example, like bring it back to like a designer, so you're coaching a designer, give me a story or an example where you're using some of this to help shape, you know, one of your design clients and saying, This is what this is what I this would have helped you with.
So let me give you a time management, one, because that's something that I call time management all the time. And so my group program is called out of overwhelm. So I work with a lot of overwhelmed interior designers. And so that's where one of the things that we work on in the program is identifying Of course, what those thoughts are. And then often overwhelm is a habit. That's just where our brain starts to go. And we get practiced at it. And so we want to break that habit. But if we were to think about an example, like I hear a lot, I'm so behind. Okay. And now, that's just like, people tell me that, like the reporting the news, right? But what is behind, behind what, behind behind what or I remember, I remember one of my clients tell me that she's just spinning all the plates. And we just broke that down. And I mean, eventually, we're kind of laughing about it, because we're like, what are these plates that you have? What are you spending them on? And but when we tell ourselves, I'm so behind, then, like, tell me what comes up for you. When you think that thought,
right now, I know, I've been in meetings all day. So I probably have at emails I have not responded to. And so I'm I'm behind the eight ball, I really tried to be a very strong communicator. So it would bother me that I owe 80 people a response, or I want to process it. And once I would clear that out, then I would feel like I'm quote, caught up. But the reality is like, when you go on vacation, this is something I really appreciate about vacation, is you think everyone needs you more than they actually do. And this is also a classic, you know, I think most business owners fall into this problem, right of, you know, working in the business instead of on the business. So when you go on vacation, and you force yourself not to check your emails, and you do those things, which is really important. I'd highly recommend it a to restore your own mental capacity to be creative and just refresh yourself. But then when you come back, you actually realize like, yes, of course, there's stuff to catch up on. But there's probably not nearly as much as you thought. And a lot of stuff either just got dealt with, or people realize they didn't need you. And it's mainly maybe you're enabling people because we answer questions so much. So they come to you. Yeah, so
yeah. And so I want to answer your question, I want to circle back to your, the first part of that response, because I think we're all taught that with the email example, for example, example example, but that we need to have the result of the emails being cleared in order to feel calm, or relaxed, and think I've done enough for today, or I'm caught up but we don't. We can create the experience of calm and relaxed without Got the emails being done. And I'm not saying you don't do the emails, but think about how much more effective your action will be. If you feel it from a calm, grounded place, you'll be very systematic about looking through those emails seeing what is absolutely you need to respond to it this evening, what can wait till Monday? Who could you delegate it to? Right? Like you're going to have a very different experience and the quality of your action is really going to change if you fuel it with that calm grounded energy versus pressure anxiety.
Again, you're listening to the curious builder podcast. This episode is brought to you by middlemen resign timbers, find them at Mr. timbers.com, Sarah Monroeville and her team over in Hugo, Minnesota do an amazing job getting you the barnwood that you need for your projects, whether you're an architect, a designer, a builder, whether you're doing residential or commercial, I highly recommend Sara and her team. I've worked with her for over a decade, their commitment to excellence on time delivery, and just their American made can do attitude is really inspiring. They have a small team of 20 employees, and whether they're doing stuff in New York for Ralph Lauren, or whether during your local bar in Wisconsin, Sara and her team are just amazing people, the only thing better is their product. So if you're looking for barnwood, please visit them at Mr. timbers.com. All of our episodes and video are available at curious builder podcast.com. And now back to our guest
you're 100% Right? And I think sometimes it ties in with procrastination or I've heard this once, you know the touch at once mentality when you're you know, how much time do we waste I don't usually check, I've actually never checked my emails on my phone, I've heard read a stat one time of just the amount of time that's wasted, because you read it on your phone, but you don't really respond or I don't respond on my phone. And then when you get into your office, you read it again, and maybe get distracted with another email. And then you go back and you may be scanned or read that email three or four times before you respond to it, it'd be far more economical for everything and clear of mind to just start at that email, you know, deal with it and then move on to the next one. And not everything can be done in a perfect, you know, scientific pattern, of course, but you know, I sometimes think of that when I get too scatterbrained and I start answering multiple emails at the time or working on a bed and get distracted. It's just It doesn't help anybody. And you're right, it dials up anxiety and stress because you're trying to do too many things at one time.
Yeah, and I mean, that's one of the things that I work with my clients on because there's the tactical piece of it. So what you're describing is a lot of context switching, where your brain has to shift from one thing to the next. And that actually causes a lot of use of your mental energy. And it takes about 20 minutes between when you break focus, and then try and bring yourself back into focus to actually ramp back up. So if you think about those 20 minute blocks of time that you're creating, every time you hop from the bid to the email to the text, your hours of your day, are being spent in sub optimal. Wow. Yeah. And so it's like, pairing those, you know, strategies and approaches with the mindset to support it, right? Because if you're, if you're thinking, I have to get this done, there's so much to do, everyone's waiting on me, it's going to be really hard to take the action of saying no, I'm going to take this hour, I'm going to complete this task, and then I will check my email, right. So you have to get it at both angles, you
encourage your clients to time block and say like, Hey, an eight hour workday, or whatever it is, you know, two hours of only this. And then because I have sometimes wonder, especially in design, so my space can be creative. But really, that's my architects and designers. So going tapping into your designers background is one of my questions, actually, I was thinking about is how do you create free space to be organic and to design because, you know, I imagined just like an architect or designer is going to be times where they you know, their phone can't be dinging, they can't be answering emails, you need to enter that free flow state of design, or that's my picture of how designers does that. I'm not a designer. How do you enter that creative mindset? I guess? What's your process? And what do you see with the people that you coach?
Yeah, so I'm actually hosting a workshop on this exact topic. Because I do. It's going to be virtual, so anyone can join, it's May 9 and 11th. The instruction and workshop piece will be on May 9, and then there's a live coaching q&a on the 11th. So you can come and get all your questions answered. It's called freedom in the framework. So that's how I like to think about time blocking. I think a lot of times we think of time blocking as this very robotic, like I need to, you know, be down to the second and if I get off by two minutes, then I've completely failed and the daily day is ruined. So this is more of an approach of making decisions. stats, a lot of what time management is, is making decisions and following through on them. So making decisions on what those key tasks are in your business, whether that's the client deliverables in that creative space, whether it's financials, whether it's marketing, so I'm going to walk people through this of how you figure this out for yourself. But creating structure that is supportive, not a cage. So the other thing of I would say, with the creative flow is learning to generate the desired emotions on demand is really important. So creativity, inspiration flow, by using your mind to create it, versus hoping it just kind of appears along with the time to do it. So if you pair the intentional framework for your week with these are the times I've got blocked off on my calendar that I'm not scheduling meetings, I'm not running anywhere. Also with then when it comes time to be creative, asking like, what is the client going to love about this? Why am I excited to get started today? What is this?
So you're putting you're putting the designers mind in the frame space to answer those questions. And by asking those questions and creating those thoughts, it then will help spur the creativity as that kind of you're setting up the essentially the groundwork to allow the client to enter into that space already. Sorry, your your your pupil?
Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, I had a client who she did a lot of her design work on Friday and Saturday nights. She loved, excuse me, loved on her family got out of the house. She'd grab a glass of wine and all of her favorite books and magazines. And that's when she do her creative work. So we looked at okay, so you don't actually want to be working on Friday and Saturday night? What are your thoughts about that time and space that you've created for yourself on Friday and Saturday? And how can that be equally as true or available to you during the week. But just like I've got all the time I need, this is going to be fun. I can't wait to dive in and working on practicing those mindsets during the week when she actually wants to be working. And then she can be with her family on the weekend? Because that's what she actually wanted to do.
Right? Wow, that's really powerful. I feel like we could talk for hours on that. One of the questions that I had you had mentioned. So I assume you do for the designers out there that are listening to this and want to engage, you know, you are understand like how that works. So I would assume you do one on one training is that either workshops or like a specific amount of time? Is it like a one time thing like a three month thing, a six month thing, and then talk us a little bit through maybe some of these group coaching things so that those listening, if they're interested in your services, but G just understand that there's people out there that can help them navigate this, I can think of three designers right now that have actually talked about, you know, other than of course, this is the power of networking, talking to other designers is hugely important. Like, what do you do, and I feel like that's really helpful. But you essentially not only can use it tap into your own experience. But now as you're coaching a number of clients, you can always you can take all these other examples and then help this one client as well.
Yes, and that is what I love about my group experience, because you aren't just getting me, with my eyes, on your business, in my eyes on your brain, you're getting the collective knowledge of the group. And it has been so fun to see people share specification packages, share referrals for an accountant or talk about do I use my DOMA or studio designer? And what are the pros and cons of each. And also, then you get insight into things that you're thinking or ways that you're doing things that you're not even aware of. Because when you get to watch someone else be coached out of the way analogy. The analogy I always give is, you know, when like a friend calls you and they're really upset, and they've got this huge drama, and you're like, listen, I know what to do. Right? Yeah. Because you're not in it. You're not in that heightened emotional state where you're not thinking clearly. And so when another designer is getting coached by me, then you as a participant in the group, get to benefit from all of that coaching, plus have access to you get to raise your hand and I'll coach you on your specific situation.
I feel like the podcast sometimes I get that is for me, like if I'm dealing with something. And when I'm talking to another builder, any business owner, even yourself, like as you're talking, I'm thinking like, Oh, that makes sense as you're talking to that client and then realizing like, oh, I can apply that to my own life. And sometimes when you talk about business of what people should do, then you take a step back. Oh, I should probably do that to you. Right. So that's very interesting.
Yeah, yeah. And so that's I love the group for that reason. And I think the other piece is, you know, a lot of designers have a small team or maybe work with themselves and that's it or they have some contract support and normalizing the challenges of being a business owner is so powerful in and of itself to go Oh, I, I'm not wrong, or like I, you know, I didn't screw up in some major way, this is just like a natural part of the learning curve, right? Or, you know, it's natural to have these emotions when someone pushes back on an invoice. Right? And that's really helpful, I think to
be very helpful. Do you think that? Like if someone was to engage services, like what is a, like, is it weekly, monthly quarterly? What does it look like when working with a design business coach.
So for the program, we meet three times per month, okay. And I love to do that, because then we have an integration week. And that is really meant to go back review things, take action on something you've already started, or just do something else, right. And it's an hour per week. So that's kind of the cadence for the group, and it meets for six months. So it's a cohort that you join, which is great for building intimacy and those relationships. And then we also do these really fun focus sessions, which I love, and they're co working time. So we come together, you set a result that you're going to create within that 60 minutes, because that's one of the things that I teach is results based planning. So not doing just to do but doing to create something specific. And everyone works for 60 minutes, and then we come back on for an additional 30 minutes of coaching. So those are once a month. And that's another part of the structure. And then when I work with one on one clients, it sometimes varies, but we have a fairly similar cadence. And depending on when they're working with me, if we've worked together before or not, the length of engagement might be a little bit longer, because you need some of the foundational pieces. And as you know, design projects have tend to have a long timeline. And so sometimes when you've set yourself up where you're pretty stretched, then overscheduled don't have the support you need. It takes a little time to unwind all of that, both in your brain and then logistically. And so I like to have plenty of time for the client to work through all of that hit the challenges and roadblocks that will of course, come up and be supported through it, and be in the result for a while because being in the results that clients achieve working with me being able to actually take time off to enjoy their work more can actually be pretty uncomfortable for people, which often comes as a surprise. And it's helpful to navigate that as well. Interesting.
I think we could talk for three hours on this topic, I do want to save a little bit of time to talk about your podcast. And that was how we were actually first introduced as a fellow podcaster wants to tell us a little bit about your your podcast, because it's very different than mine. You know, mine is obviously interview based where I'm bringing people on yours, I really think are unique and in different tools, how you started the podcast and what your goal is. And just a little bit about it.
Sure. So the podcast is the interior design business CEO. And that is something that I love to work with my clients on is seeing themselves as CEOs, they are entrepreneurs, they are business owners, they're not accidental business owners. And so I was very intentional with that title. And typically, the episodes are 15 to 30 minutes, I like to keep them short. I mean, my clients are overwhelmed. So yeah, you can get it in between appointments, driving in the car. And really, when I was setting it up, I was envisioning it being a marketing piece for clients who are new to me so they can get to understand my philosophy. Because I do think it's really important when clients work with me that they understand I'm going to give you strategy, but I'm also going to give you mindset. So you have to be willing to do some self introspection,
I really appreciate your mindset approach. I think that's really valuable. And very interesting. I haven't heard a lot of people. I mean, you hear a lot of people talking about strategies, in middle of the book tapes, I listened to self educate is about strategy. And I don't hear I as I shouldn't say that I'm listening to a book right now called the dichotomy of leadership, which is actually about war. But he realized the business but I mean, I guess I shouldn't say that a lot of it is I guess he does talk about the mindset and how you frame it. But I really appreciate you bringing that up as a as a focal point. Because if your mindset is off it your strategy can be even if you have a good strategy, it can fail.
Yeah, because if we go back to that thoughts, create feelings, feelings, drive actions, the actions are the strategies. Right? So you got to it's top down, right, so you got to have that looked at. Yeah, so for people who are new to me to really understand and then for my current clients as well, because, like I said, my brain moves pretty fast. So I'm always thinking of new concepts, new ways to help and I can't always be updating the workbook and creating all these new additional modules of the probe. him or we could like go on for years in the program. And so I thought this would be a great way for me to, you know, pick a little nugget from a coaching session, think about it and deliver it so that they have that as a resource. And then also for my past clients who it's been so fun to hear their take on the podcast, to where they're like, I'd love that this comes out, it's like my weekly reminder of what we've, you know, covered together. And that's been really fun, too.
That's really rewarding. I like that. How when you do that? Are these often are you writing a blog? Because it knows you have blogs on your website? Are you writing a blog, and then speaking about it on your podcast, or walk me through the one thing that I've marveled at is I like to have a conversation, because I don't know where it's gonna go. And so I like the live interactions, one of the reasons why I've chosen to do most of my podcasting in person for now. But when you're going essentially monologuing, you have a specific topic, and you're just getting your thoughts out which direction or you kind of walk me through your process of how you create that content on your podcast? Are you picturing the client and just picturing the topic and then just kind of talking about it, or walk me through how you prep in and actually execute a podcast like that? Yeah,
so I created a template that I start with, because I wanted to have my brain focused on this is the format we're going to follow so it can spin out and overthink things. So that's what I always start with. And it's a pretty basic layout. And then I think of the topic, I walk my dog around the neighborhood a lot. So usually, I get an idea while I'm out walking all of and I'll like, you know, jot it down in my podcast idea thing. And I'll pick whatever I feel called to talk about, I'll jot the notes down within that format of making sure like, I'm helping them identify how they're doing this, walk them through the solution. And then I always like to paint the vision for what's possible when you address this challenge. Because a lot of times when we listen to podcasts or read books, we're like, yeah, that sounds really nice, I should do that. Or someone else should do that. That's a good idea. So I want to, I want them to be able to connect to like, oh, yeah, this could make a huge impact. And it might be worth going through the discomfort of having some changes, or putting a little effort in somewhere, to make that happen for myself. So that's kind of the format, and then usually I put it on my Google Doc. And then usually I record it right after that. It's fresh in your mind fresh in my mind. And I send it off to my Podcast Producer and cross it off my list for the week ready
to go for you? Well, as we transition towards the end here, before I get into kind of our rapid fire thing that we've been doing here the last couple of weeks, why don't you tell me what's coming up in 23, that you're excited about?
Well, like I said, Freedom in the framework, where you're going to be able to develop your own personalized time management framework that really is the right amount of structure for you with flexibility. Flexibility is a huge value of mine in my business. But with too much flexibility, it just becomes chaos. So we want to rein it in a little bit. But so I'm gonna walk designers through that process. And I should say, because I bet you have architects and others who listen to absolutely everyone is willing or not willing, able to join. I have worked with architects in the past, and they've been lovely clients. And so don't feel like you're not invited to the party. But we're going to do the first workshop, I'm going to walk you through the process, you're going to have your framework that you're gonna be able to walk away with. And then we'll come together for that coaching in the days prior are following it. So that way you can really talk through like your roadblocks, questions, things coming up. And then because the launch of out of overwhelm is coming up soon as well, the freedom and the framework is actually the kickoff event. Enrollment opens for the summer cohort on May 15. So I'm going to be doing some other live q&a is I've got a call about creating an ROI with delegation. And then another one on creating focus on demand that emotion on demand we were talking about. So that'll be a combination of teaching and live coaching. So if you want to come get coached by me,
all you have to do is a live event where people can come and see you in person, or is this live event? It's all in
zoom sounds? Yep. Because I work with clients across the states and even some international so yeah, so so anyone can join. And I'll give you links for the show
notes that show notes. I mean, that's a good transition. Where I mean, where can people find out more about you? Because I feel like I need your newsletter. I need your blog. And yeah, I mean, there's a lot of information here that even as I'm listening to it as like, Okay, I'm gonna have to remember that. I assume it can be found on your website.
Yes. Does he cresswell.com Okay, so that's the best place to go. You'll be able to find information on the podcast, the interior design, business, CEO, and freedom in the framework. There's an entire page listing them modules and resources for out of overwhelm. And that's probably like your one stop shop.
Okay. All right, let's go to a few of our rapid fires. What is your favorite way to self educate right now?
Hmm, that is a bit of a tough one. I mean, I love to read, there's a million books that I'd like to read. And I'm always reading something. So that's probably it. But I also really love interactive experiences, where I'm able to engage and have conversations around the topic, because then I adopt it for myself, and put it through my own lens. So that way, it's not just like someone else's teaching. It's what I'm taking from that paired with my experience, and then putting that out.
This just comes to me Tell me if this is true. As your coaching, could you almost define your job as self education? Because I would imagine that as you're coaching people, you are getting stimulus back that's educating you. I love that. Yeah. And then so in some ways, you're self educating by doing your job. Yes,
that is a great point. I never thought about that. Yeah, because every single person will come with a slightly different flavor. And then my brain gets to work on how do I help them solve this?
So I mean, the only reason I thought of it is because the way you reacted to, you like to have conversation center on a topic. And so then I just thought of you having these conversations with these different coaches. So yeah, that's an interesting. What's your idea of a favorite podcast that you listen to?
The Life Coach School? Do? Yep. That one is always in rotation.
have to add that to my list? If you go back to the beginning, what what advice would you give yourself?
I tell you, it doesn't have to be perfect to get started. Yep. Yep.
Got to write it down. It's a bumper sticker right there. All right, outside of work. What do you do for fun? Or what do you do for enjoyment? Well, I already
told you about walking my dog. I do love to work out. Yep. So you'll find me on the treadmill at bar a Pilates at yoga. Yeah, I like to move and reading for sure. And then it's about cabin season. So we're going to be spending a lot of time we pretty much go every weekend if we're in town to our
cabin. Whereabouts is your cabin
in Annandale Oh, sure.
Yeah, that's so funny say that. I for those that don't know we're Annandale is if you're not in Minnesota, it's west of Minneapolis, maybe an hour, hour and a half. And Is that about right and a half and but the water clarity is incredible out there like Lake Sylvia. And that's why we're there. That's why you're there. And I used to coach cross country running for 10 years. For Chanhassen high school and the kids that ran I think it was like 350 miles or more in the summer. We would reward them with three day camp where we ran three times a day but it was it was camp Cairo which is on the southern side of Lake Sylvia oh so I got to know that lake and I've often told my wife like you know a if I could afford it but be retirement just because going up north we actually just bought some property up north that we're going to build a cabin on so I guess we are going up there but yeah, it's not that far away from the cities and so it's such a cool Lake and there's some beautiful homes on there actually thought it would be a cool place to you know if I work more remote. I mean, if I stopped building just became a podcaster you know, maybe I could I could live on on Annandale, but I just love it out there. It's yeah, that's
actually our neighbor at our cabin, he works remotely because they sold they actually have an interesting story but which your podcasters don't need to Yeah,
bring them on. I will thank you very much for your time. Thank you for coming on. It was a real pleasure to get to know you a little bit more and I hope we can cross paths, either at some of our live events and obviously, some of our designers I hope are going to reach out to you because I think you have a very valuable you know, business proposition that can really help a lot of people. So thank you for sharing your story.
Thank you for having me on.
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