Episode 103 - Unlocking the Power of Core Values: Why RB Gallup Says You Can't Force Culture!
#103 | R.B. Gallup | Gallup Design Build | Unlocking the Power of Core Values: Why RB Gallup Says You Can't Force Culture!
In this episode of the Curious Builder Podcast, Mark Williams chats with RB Gallup from South Carolina about scaling a business, especially focusing on building and construction. RB shares his journey of buying his family business, navigating partnerships, and implementing systems like EOS to empower his team, shedding light on how he transitioned from being a hands-on manager to a strategic leader. If you're into growing your business while maintaining strong core values, this episode is packed with insights!
Listen to the full episode:
About R.B. Gallup
R.B. Gallup is the President of Gallup Design Build; a luxury builder based in Chapin, SC. They offer turn-key services that encompass planning, designing, and building exceptional homes on Lake Murray and the Greater Columbia region.
Their commitment to excellence and attention to detail set them apart in creating dream homes tailored to the lifestyle and preferences of their clients.
Resources:
Find Gallup Design Build’s Website Here
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R.B Gallup 00:02
what I had to figure out was, I can't, you can't be the genius with 1000 helpers. And I'm not calling myself a genius. That's a that's a mentality where, instead of empowering leaders, you're going to tell everyone what to do, and you're going to process it, and you really can't process culture. You can't you have to have written processes, but you can't force core values through processes.
Mark D. Williams 00:40
Today, on the podcast, we had RB Gallup from Columbia, South Carolina. And if you're looking at growing your business and scaling it, this episode is definitely going to be for you. We definitely dive deep on how Arby's bought the business from his family, bought out his partner in short order, and then scaled the business pretty rapidly over the last couple of years. So if you're looking to supercharge your business, tune into this episode. Without further ado, here's Arby. All right. Welcome to curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today we have a special guest. We've got RB, Gallup from Columbia, South Carolina, and Gallup design build, what's up? RB,
R.B Gallup 01:14
happy to be here. Mark, just having another great day in South Carolina. That's
Mark D. Williams 01:19
right, buddy. Well, for the audience out there, RB and I are in the same builder 20 group. And I think was it only a year ago we met for the first time at Vegas, at IBS, or was it two years ago? Yeah,
R.B Gallup 01:29
I think that was, yeah, that was last year
Mark D. Williams 01:31
I time. Yeah, it feels a lot longer than that. You and I, I think in the group, there's probably four of us that are the Uber communicators, but you are definitely, probably the Uber, Uber communicator in terms of initiating our giant chat thread, and you bring in some great building blocks. So I was really excited to have you on the podcast. And one of the things I mentioned before we came on air is we did a poll recently to the people that listen. I think we just crossed over 72,000 downloads, which is great for the podcast here, and we pulled our email list and basically said, What do you want to hear about in 25 and the number one thing they want to hear about is scaling. And so I jokingly called you the sensei of scale, because you have demonstrated to be very good at scaling. And so I thought, for those that don't know you, we'll start a little bit with your origin story, but we're really going to focus a lot on scaling empowering people, because it's really in line with who you are, what you do and what you believe. And I think it's a great message. Oh, thanks. So
R.B Gallup 02:28
little background on me. I grew up in the industry, working with my parents. My mom was an interior designer. My dad was a plan designer. They started a design company that at the time, when they started, they worked with builders, and they would work as project managers, similar to an architect would, or, I think you heard of owners, owners, reps, similar kind of things. So they did that. And then, actually, before the recession, towards around 2000 and I want to say 2004 they started building houses themselves, and kind of they decided, hey, we're doing all this. We're kind of managing it all as we go. Let's go ahead and build it. And I think that was a very wise move on their part, and helped ground and solidify them through the recession. They were then a design build firm that you could come to them with your lot, and they could design the floor plan to fit, do the interior design, and then build the house. And so if all of a sudden the market gets a lot smaller, you have, you know, three chances to capture someone there versus just being the builder. And I think they that that really helped with their success and survival. It was pretty brutal around here during 2010 when I came home. So transition to 2010 I started building homes with them. As a young project manager, we didn't really know a lot, you know, I'm sure I wasn't even a project manager. At first, she called an assistant or whatever, and so did my business partner at the time, or not yet, but he joined the company as well, and we all evolved into partners. So that was 2010 around here. In 2010 it was very quiet when I first joined the HBA. It was like people had were exchanging war stories. It was very somber, if you will. So many builders had left the market, and that was really the peak of the recession here, the housing recession, that is. So I came home to work then and cut my teeth, you know, building houses, working with them, our team, we became a new company, Gallup and Lafitte at the time, and that was my father, who owned 51% of the company, Robert Levitt and myself, and we owned, you know, 2525 or whatever the the exact percentages were, so. So that was really exciting. I was all for it, and my father really let me kind of he wasn't. He was a great teacher and role model, but he didn't set me on a path and say, you need to do exactly this. It was just a watch, absorb, and he never really said, RB, it's time for you to go sell houses or it's time for you to do a budget. I just would do it, and he would let me take the reins of more things.
Mark D. Williams 05:26
Do you have other siblings in the family as well? I do. I have two
R.B Gallup 05:30
sisters and and they both work doing other things. One of my younger sisters, she's a She's a choreographer, and my oldest sister, she's worked in various things, but I was the only one to grow up working in the business before 2010 I was boots on the ground, starting with cleaning houses and then doing punch work and decks and physical work, before actually coming on board as a builder. So I really, I love building. One thing we don't really talk a lot about is I actually like to build stuff with my hands when I get a chance. And I'm kind of coming to grips with that's not my life anymore, even for enjoyment. It's not the best use my time, but having that knowledge base and like passion for that, I think, helped me grasp some of the construction details that I might not have cared about or wanted to learn about otherwise, because my dad was very much a designer businessman, if you will. Well,
Mark D. Williams 06:31
I think there's a aspect of that that when it sounds like you're somewhat dangerous building things with your hands, but I imagine your master trim carpenters and those that are doing their the coffered ceilings and the cabinetry. When you can do more than another, you certainly have a respect for the Masters in the craft. And I always thought it was really I think most people that are business owners, I assume that they're successful, they're obviously empowering their people, their subcontractors, and we're showing them love and appreciation. And I was never somebody that was handy, nor had any desire. My dad certainly was. We had a wood shop growing up, and I'd build the normal things that kids built, and you just go around there for school projects and tinker. But I always had a great appreciation, because it's difficult, and I'm not real big on math, and so seeing the amount of math that goes into radiuses, and I had one trim carpenter that would come out of the job site, and he spent a good half of the day. He called it just thinking he would set up a chair and have a notebook and he would just wander the house, sit down, take notes, but he really planned out how all the pieces were going to end, where all the paneling was going to go. And it wasn't until later on in my career. I mean, I knew he was really good, but I have never, I have, still to this day, have not met another trim carpenter that that lays it out in his head and on paper the way Todd did, and he is a master craftsman. And so I was really appreciated seeing them in their element. And anyway, I guess my point is, I'm sure when you see someone that's just, they don't day in and day out, that's their profession, there's something where you can relate to it and be like, I know, actually, to a great degree of just how hard that is, because they're that good at it.
R.B Gallup 08:04
Yeah, I think the main thing that you'll see from those guys is efficiency, and I have a respect for instantly, I can do whatever I really want to, but it's going to take me exponentially longer, because I haven't got all those reps those guys are making. How many coffered ceilings did that guy do before he he did the home you saw him in? And for him, that's when you start to learn efficiency. But yeah, so I have a huge respect for it, and I think it's good for anyone at one way or another. If you're going to be a builder, start building houses, be able to understand the craft at a elementary level, if you will. I think there
Mark D. Williams 08:47
was something I actually had the right opportunity to do it. I in 2000 you're speaking about 2010 I remember that being a rough years here. I mean, it was rough everywhere. And so anyway, 2009 1011, there was kind of this golden opportunity. In hindsight, I really wish I would have acted on it, but at that point, I think I was able to get one home going, or a few remodels, or just enough just make all you were trying to do was survive. In hindsight, it was like, if you could survive, then you could thrive, which obviously happened. But where I'm going with this is I had this idea what things were so slow, what else was going to have this kind of time, and I had this idea that I wanted to share. Wanted to shadow each one of my subs and do their work with them for two weeks each, so I'd work with a it's easy to be critical of drywall. I had my drywall run Randy, maybe 5060, episodes ago, and we were laughing, because unfortunately, drywall is one of those professions that nobody, nobody walks around says, Look how amazing my drywall is. You only point out drywall when it's bad. And other than like cabinetry, you always point out how great your cabinetry is, or you get the joke and and so anyway, what I want to do is like, I know it's not that easy all the mudding and the sanding. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback on Monday and complain about how they did the sheetrock detail, but you try it. I bet you thought that is not that easy. And so anyway, I had this i. Idea that I was going to go through 10 subs, and I was going to spend two weeks, sort of like my own apprentice program, before I even realized that that was, you know, a thing, it'd be cool thing to do, just to learn them all, and really to get to know their craft and to speak about it anyway. Long story short, I ended up landing a a job during that time. And so it was, I think my guys were probably going to be, because what the joke was is I was gonna have to pay them to allow me to slow them down, because I was not going to be inefficient higher it was mainly just a curiosity thing that I want to scratch. But anyway, that'll be one of my few regrets I have, because I'm not somebody that carries regrets. I always kind of wish I would have been able to act on that, because I think it would have just been an interesting experience
R.B Gallup 10:36
that strikes a chord with me, because growing up, I I liked doing the hands on stuff. And, you know, probably a peculiar kid and teenager that I liked watching this old house and buying tools and using them, and just liked it as a hobby, you would say. And one of the things my dad did is he paid the framers and then a trim carpenter, deck carpenter. He would pay, I think, I think he would pay me, basically, to go work with them. And so he's, I'm gonna send you RB, and he's gonna, you're, he's gonna be your helper. And I wanted to do it. I was like, Yeah, that sounds great. And you're working with the framers on, I remember working on this, like, addition at the time, and all I did all day was just haul boards and throw away boards. And I was like, when do we get to build something, you know, and, but that's good. It was, it was good. And then the deck guy, I he was a great carpenter. He did trim and decks, and we hand nailed everything. And I did that for like, three summers, and we would just hand nail with ring shank nails, galvanized ring shake nails, which of you and cut nails? Always in the masonry. Cut nails. And I came back when I started project managing, he's using a nail gun. And I'm like, when did you get that? He's like, Oh, I've had this forever. And I just it was great education. It was like, I told someone about this one time, this older builder, and he goes, that's the best education your dad could have given you. And I love thinking back to that. I
Mark D. Williams 12:05
mean, just interacting, I had a similar story to you and my mom. As an interior designer, dad was a builder, so just those early years, cleaning up job sites, sweeping between the suds studs before the sheet, or, sorry, the insulation would go in, making sure it was nice and clean, and in a presentation, I think it was interesting. Early on in my dad's career, or my career, my dad used to come on the job sites with me and we'd sweep. When I would do a lot of my own it just build one home at a time. And I think I used to do everything was one man band and in terms of organizing, and hey, I could sweep. So one of the few things I was very qualified to sweep, and even to this day, it's something I would still like to try to do from a morale point, but it's also a way to do it. I just have, I couldn't, like you said I I can't justify the time expenditure, even though I do believe in what I'm about to share is like, I always thought to be like once a month to take one day and just go sweep all the homes that I have myself. The idea of twofold. One, I enjoy it. Two, I get to be on all the job sites. And mainly the third one is all the subs would see that, you know, I don't feel like I'm above any of them. They're my partners. I've never really liked the word, like you're somebody's boss. I hate that word. Frankly, I don't like that word. It's, this is my business partner. This is, these are, this is my team. I'm not their boss. I'm their team. And I certainly hope they feel that way. And so anyway, it's something I would like to do. It's just this in time. It's that's I'm actually hurting. I'm hurting the productivity of the entire team. I'm actually taking that money out of their pockets and their family's pockets because I am now not able to sell another project or do the things that really what I am good at. And but I know there's a part of me, maybe it's the romantic in me that wants to do it, just because I think I believe in the message that it would send. But right?
R.B Gallup 13:47
Yeah, you're exactly. I mean, it's you can, as an owner, you can do your Dan. I've been a big fan of Dan Martell, and he's, he wrote the buy back your time book, and one of the principles is pretty basic. It's figure out what is your hourly rate. And I did this recently, you know, and I'm familiar with my hourly rate on what my value is to our organization. And when I figured out, you know, I was doing this mud room project at my personal house I'm building, and I said, I'm going to take some time off and do this, because it's just going to be like me taking a day off and working. I did the math on and I told my wife, I said, this is how much I have now put into this project with my time. She goes, Well, how much would it have cost otherwise, if you would have let you know your trim carpenter do it, who's in house? And I said, Well, virtually nothing, you know. And it was like it was a huge shock, because what you said, it's not just providing for yourself, it's providing for your team. And if you're if I'm not doing that, I should probably be using it to the benefit of my health and my family. So it's knowing you kind of have to say goodbye to some things that you used to love. And I. I'm I'm wrestling with that a little bit definitely. I think
Mark D. Williams 15:03
it's like riding a wave. I think it's constantly adjusting. You have young kids. I know you just had the birth of your son here recently, and you're constantly ebbing and flowing with adjusting and change. The only thing that was that the only constant is change. And I've, for instance, I'm 44 I'm loving middle aged I don't know why that was like a taboo, but we can talk about this a little bit later in the podcast about our daily habits, which I always find fascinating about other people have some similar ones, going to bed early and waking up early. I'm like, dang. I don't know what everyone else is talking about, but this is awesome. I feel like I'm taking steroids. You know, you feel great. You know? It's like, wow, this is, this is pretty good. One of the questions, and only if you're comfortable sharing it. But a How did you come up with what your rate actually is, and are you comfortable sharing, like, what is your hourly rate? I just think it'd be interesting to the other business owners out there, because most people have not done this, and I think we all from it, like in our market, like an interior designer charges our client 200 bucks an hour. Architecture fees tend to be about 150 to 220 an hour. I, as the owner, have never calculated my own hourly rate. So anyway, with that question, How did you come up with yours? How did you do it? If someone wants to do it, and then what is yours? If you're comfortable sharing? Well, it's
R.B Gallup 16:06
hard. As an entrepreneur, we, I own a couple businesses, mainly Gallup, design, build, and the other one is Oak and CO cabinetry. They both support each other, so it's really the same organization for the most part, and it's you calculate your salary, your or you add your salary, your health insurance, any benefits. Do you have a work truck, all of the stuff that the company provides you? And then I you could do this a number of ways, but basically, you could either look at the profit, which, if you're a sole owner, that's pretty good way to look at it for the year, or you look at how much you're going to take home out of that profit, and the way the taxes are set up, you should probably just look at the profit, because even if you don't take that money home, you're paying taxes on it. So you look at the bottom line of that after all operating expenses and after all bonuses to employees and everything, and you divide it by 2000 hours, I believe. And I might need to double check that, I think it's 2000 hours as a normal working year. And I came up with my working rate, and if it can fluctuate wildly as an entrepreneur, but I'm very fortunate enough where it was pretty high number last year, and it's going to differ for everyone. It's going to differ. We talk about it later, but I had a year where we made no money, you know, we raised a lot of money, we worked hard, we invested in the company, and we pretty much just dead even, broke even at the end of the year. So that rate is a little different. But I think that rate's kind of false too, because the stuff that followed it proved that that was a good move and a good investment. So I think the ideal way to do it is once you've had an established profitable few years, maybe take the average of three, but it also your rate could change. You can be worth a lot at some point, and then it can, it can diminish, certainly. So that's how I did it.
Mark D. Williams 18:11
This episode is brought to you by adaptive. For over two years now, I've been using adaptive. It's an incredible game changer. It's AI technology based. It helps you with bill pay. And as a builder, there's very few things that anger our subs more than not being paid on time. Well, those days are gone. Not only do you know exactly where you are, but you can pay people through your ACH channels, making draws extremely quick with one click of a button, which used to take hours, my office staff is now able to generate a draw to the bank or to the client in literally seconds. The thing that I appreciate the most about adaptive is their ability to keep changing. We've given them three or four feedbacks on things that we need as builders, and within just a few months those they're rolling those things out. This is saving us hours per week and days per month in terms of our efficiency. If you're looking to upgrade your business, I'd highly recommend adaptive. You can reach out to them@adaptive.com or listen to the cures builder podcast episode 15 or episode 80, where we dive into their origin story. You know, one of the things I want to get into is scaling. And I think obviously, as you scale, your hourly rate, if you're breaking it down this way, actually should go up exponentially, right? Because you are empowering more and more people that produce more and more widgets or more and more things. So now, if you're the figurehead, you are ahead, assuming that your company is more profitable. I think you get to these different class ceilings, like, I don't know, well, actually, well, we'll talk about that. As you went to different gross revenues. Did you find that there were certain places where it was like, Man, you kept, like, hitting your head, and then you had to break through. You had to break through. You had to maybe double revenue, or whatever it was. I've heard like here locally. I was talking to a builder, and they said that the hardest period was between 12 million and 20 million in revenue. And they said that that might as well bend the Atlantic Ocean. It was so hard that that to conceptualize that you would double. Yeah, because really, the in between, you don't become any more profitable, is what they said. Like there's certain efficiencies, like you have to bring on overhead, you have to invest in the company, and you're, maybe you're even making less money at 15 million than he did at nine or 10 million. But then when they hit 20, it was like a kicker, and I camera if it was you that was talking about this recently, someone, oh, I just had a Brian gear on. He wrote a book called 10x and I haven't read it yet, but it's on my to do list. But it was basically the concept was like, you know, 2x is kind of like, Ooh, I want to double but like, the point was is, like, 10x actually is just as achievable, and might actually be easier than 2x I haven't read the book, so I'm not going to speak about it, but the concept is pretty straightforward. It makes sense in the title. And it was just this idea that scaling has an exponential force multiplier to it, and sometimes, as the owners, it's up to us to set the the goal, the metric really high, and the team will come up with it, including ourselves. Yeah,
R.B Gallup 20:52
Dan Sullivan is a is one of my favorite authors, and someone, Zeb Moser from Charlotte, put me on to him, and he's got a lot of great principles that support each other. And he talks about that same kind of 10x concept. I believe there was a, it's a, it's a number of things, you know, I'll tell you. Like you said, we that 11 to $12 million mark can be two very different worlds. I've been in $11 million where it's it's all about the the bottom line at the end of the day, what is your percentage on net versus, versus the revenue? And you know that's there's many things you got to do to get that right, but we've had an 11 million a year, two times over right, drastically different results and and there's just a lot that that can be said for that. And now we're in the jump from around 12 to 20, which we've had, I've had it where it's you think you're going to be at the 20, and you end at 12, and it's just getting getting a number of systems and people in the right place, because there is a real steep climb you have to make to ramp up for that. And until you can get all the right factors, it's like the Dutch boy with his finger in the well, like, I'll, oh, this is a problem. I need to put my finger in the well. Of these designs. We need to get them out sooner. And then it's, Oh, gosh. We need more leads. And then you put your hands in that and then why is construction taking so long? And for me, that was year 2022 for certain coming and then 2023 so I've lived that world where you have your projections, your spreadsheet all ready to go. It's all laid out in front of you, but when you're going around trying to fix one problem after another, you kind of you don't achieve your goals. So we're out to kind of point that at a solution, I it all evolves around people and leaders that own each of the levers in your company, from sales to design to construction to warranty. Those are all just four right there. And obviously operations Vicky in my office is amazing, and that that really gets involved when it cash flow and draws. And if you can have a leader pushing their own ball up the hill. That's how you achieve your goals. When I was trying to be the physical pry bar on all of those items, that's when I kept not realizing our full potential. I
Mark D. Williams 23:34
mean, you mentioned something in a note that we were sharing back and forth, something about like you had, I think it was because you're into running, and you were trail running, and something along the lines that you lines that you all went all in on traction in the Eos. And you alluded to that you were one year, you had 43 rocks, and now it's empowering your team to carry some of those rocks and how much farther. And I think the thing that stuck out, and I'll let you answer that a little bit, but I think the thing that stuck out most to me was what you've alluded to now a few times, is you had the one year where he basically, the company didn't make any money, but the you were basically were sowing the seeds for a very where you're at now. And I think that what that you're investing your team, you're investing into people. And I think this goes into that quote you had shared with me, that's the who, not how. And so I'd love to hear how that that took place. Maybe all those things I just mentioned took place over what, four years, five years like, what's that span of the self awakening, this awareness?
R.B Gallup 24:31
So it's, it's not like I woke up in 2022, and decided to do this, but it culminated to a point where, honestly, I think I had to become an adult. I had to learn how to build a house. I had to do that many times over, and then I had to get reps in each of the positions of the company. And so once I've done, once we did that, I'll kind of take you on a three step journey, if you will. If. So 2022 or going into 2022 my father had wanted to retire, and he kept bringing it up, and we want to retire and do this, but he never physically would do it, but it would always kind of be a carrot he would dangle that said, I'm going to do this. And we were all fine. We I loved working with him. It was working great. And he got sick and and unfortunately he got to a point where he wasn't able to work, and we had to buy him out, which was part of the plan is just was executed on a situation where I would have liked him to be fully in charge of that, but it was a point where we had to do that. And so we bought them out. And that shortly after, I was running training for a trail marathon, and I was listening to traction, and I had been working on Eos, I had just joined builder 20, and then COVID happened. So when I say Gist, that was 2019 but that might as well have been, you know, one year from then to 2022 so was listening to traction and implementing EOS. And I remember what little hill I was running up, and it was dark in the morning, head lamp on, and it was talking about having the right people in the right seat, and you shouldn't really proceed with anything, is kind of how it phrased it with your business, until this is accomplished. And I knew immediately I had to buy my business partner out. At the time, my business partner, Robert Levitt, we were he was wonderful person to work with. Very kind, very conscientious builder. Knew a lot about building, but we had got to the point where we had project managers, and we each assumed different roles. And to bring it back to scaling, Robert wanted to do everything, and he didn't even want to teach. He he wanted to do it all, and he wanted to have his hands on every aspect of the construction. We were trying to get him to be the Director of construction, and I would be the estimator sales, and we op sky and kind of run it like that. And I just realized, I said, you know, I hate to do this, because I I didn't want to fight, but I said, this is, this is ultimately going to be a poor move. So I gave him an opportunity to kind of to buy down a little bit, and he didn't take that. And I said, Okay, that's, that's fine. We'll just proceed with the Buy Sell agreement, which I was thankful. My dad helped me get that in place. We just executed that with him. So I bought him out, and it went very well. I'm very happy for my time working with him. We've had no fights, no bad blood, hesitant to even talk about it, but I just the only thing I could say is he's an outstanding person, and we handled it very well on both ends. I'm very pleased with that.
Mark D. Williams 28:00
I think that's amazing. I'd like to talk a little bit about that, because I think a lot of people we've had on the podcast have been multiple generation owners. Sometimes it's a father, son, how do they sell it? Husband, wife, team, maybe buy into the business. And especially right now, I think I heard it's been said a few times, it's like 10,000 baby boomers are retiring every day, and the number of businesses that they own, obviously, I think only, like, one out of 10 is being sold. The rest of them are just shutting down. So there's a huge opportunity, you know, to buy into HVAC companies, electrician companies, plumbing companies, building companies, just because that they're available and they're for sale. In this case, you bought your dad's, yes, he's your dad, but you bought them out. We don't need to get into details unless you want to. But like, how does that work in terms of time? I've heard different things like, and I'd love to hear this time so you bought out your dad. There's a time window there with your partner, then how much time had elapsed before you did a second buyout, prodigious buyer out here, but you bought your first company, and then you just bought out your second company within a short span. I'd love to hear that pros and cons, and also informing people if you are going to go into a partnership making sure you have clear operating agreements, which it sounds like you obviously did, which was obviously incredible for everyone, to make sure that you stayed on friendly terms. It sounds like things went really smoothly.
R.B Gallup 29:12
Yeah, I think you know, just to be I bought the name, the brand and the reputation I I did, number one, my father, that was kind of his retirement plan. No, that's great. Let's basically the company buys in both of these regards, the company pays for the person shares with the prophets, and that happened with my father, but I want to thank Josh Edgell at Jim. He really helped me see that I was ready to kind of write a check. And with Robert, because I get so we can talk about this later, I get pretty impatient once I see this is the way, this is what I need to do. And he said, well, the my. Money is there, the business is valuable, right? You wouldn't be able to buy it if not. And so we structured it where would be an initial payment and then 12 payments after that. So to
Mark D. Williams 30:13
basically take you basically self financing it through the company. So just to pick these numbers are not accurate, I'm just taking a wild guess here of what I think this is. Let's just say the company makes a million dollars a year, and you're gonna buy it for a million, for easy numbers, you put 100 grand down, and then for the next 10 years, he gets paid out 100 grand a year, or something along that line.
R.B Gallup 30:32
Yeah, it was monthly for a year, and monthly. And so here's the other thing, so we were talking about the reason I did it was, I didn't want any bad blood. I I could have, easily where we ended up is, I could have just started Gallup design build, recruited the people I wanted to come with me and and worked, you know, as is, there was not much value in the company that I purchased at the time. We didn't have a lot of assets. We didn't have we didn't have a lot of systems and processes like we do now. And I just it was a move that I think I it was the only way for me is I want to do this right. I want no questions of, well, what happened there? What happened to them? And people are going to do that already. I've already, people already ask you, what happened with this, and they so you have to be diligent on your own to create a good environment. So we did that, and then I started a new company. So I bought an old company just to shut it down. Basically, we worked out our contracts, transferred our books, and I wanted a clean start. I don't want a DBA. I don't want to carry a name that's that's not no longer in the picture. So it was a fresh start. And so it was so interesting, because in some ways it was like, I've been doing it for 12 years. In other ways it was like a startup. It was It was exciting, and it was pretty cool. It was fun time. I'm very thankful we did it. I'm happy it's the best decision I've ever made. And I wouldn't, I don't know if I would have done it without builder 20. Builder 20, my group is how I started getting engaged in EOS. There were some talks there about, where's your business partner? Oh, he's gonna come next time, you know. And they were very friendly, but they asked the right questions. They asked the right questions and gave me good insight, and really just provided knowledge that I could tap into. And that
Mark D. Williams 32:35
was huge. Did Robert end up starting his own company and build? Is he building now. What's he doing today? So
R.B Gallup 32:41
I think he's building some houses, yeah, you know, it just like he wants to do, you know, building one at a time, I'm sure, or a handful by himself, and calling all the subs, checking all the, you know, doing it all himself. And that's just, we just had two different opinions on No, it's, yeah,
Mark D. Williams 32:58
no, it's super interesting. I think that's what also makes entrepreneurship really interesting. We say, I keep saying entrepreneurship because we're builders that happen to be business owners, and that when you have other businesses as well. But I think the messaging out there is, and I've said this many times in the podcast, but it's true. You can be good at being a builder and bad at business, and you won't make it. You can be good at business and be a bad builder, and you can probably make it, and hopefully you're good at both, and then you obviously have a great brand, great reputation, which you're building. I think one of the things that stood out to me your when we went to Columbia a year ago, that was my first builder 20 meeting, when I entered the group, and I had met you once, and you'd had some rock star status around you, because I knew a couple of other people before I went in there just because they had known you when you first joined, and just the amount of changes that, obviously you're talking about it now, buying out two partners, and the amount of radical change that you'd made. I've seen the systems firsthand. It's probably my biggest personal weakness is SOPs and design, which is one of your superpowers. You're so good at that in how you created that. So I guess my question is, you mentioned before about the business, not having a lot of assets, or not having a lot of probably wasn't worth a lot. It was the name, and it meant a lot to you. So therefore it was very valuable walk us through and even the audience at General almost like a teaching moment. What have you learned? What have you discovered? You obviously believed in standard operating procedures, SOPs. You believe in creating the path work a lot of people have been building for decades at a time. I mean, even myself, for instance. I mean I know I'm sure way more than I think I know. But you know you can't, if you can't teach it, or if you can't empower others to learn it, you're never going to get bigger. And for the first time in my career, I actually do want to scale a little bit, because I don't want to be in the day to day. I don't want to be, I don't want to I never want to do what Robert wants to do, to be clear, but I didn't realize how much I was limiting myself. And part of it was, is my view on people. I think a lot of people think like this too, more people, more problems. And there is a portion of that is true, but the but people are not holding you down, people are pushing you up. And I think that's a fundamental mental change that happens. And I always, of course, looked at my. Trade partners as my team. As I mentioned before, I never looked at it. I was their boss. Of course, I felt like they were part of my team. But how walk us through building and scaling? What are some lessons that you've learned? And I feel like some of it, you just have to get your hands dirty and just figure it out. But I'd be really curious to see like some of your lessons learned over the last three years, things maybe you that worked out really well, things that didn't go very well. And what advice would you give to yourself if you had to do it again?
R.B Gallup 35:27
Yeah, so let's go back to 2022, when you talked about I had shared that I had my notes, because I do take a lot of notes. I'd always do some kind of yearly planning reflection. And I counted that I was on a little planning retreat with my wife to the mountains, and I had done 43 rocks that year. And that was the year that we launched Gallup design build, and I pretty much made all of them happen, you know, I forced them into existence. And at the same time my father was actively passing away. We left that mountain trip, and he went into hospice and died shortly after. It was it was a extremely stressful time and all of the things needed to happen, but I told myself, I said, I am not going to do that. I was literally in tears looking back at how much I did, and it didn't like life so much like life is it took me a while to really let that lesson. I didn't really know what that lesson meant, yet I knew I felt bad, but what I had to figure out was, I can't, you can't be the genius with 1000 helpers. And I'm not calling myself a genius. That's a that's a mentality where, instead of empowering leaders, you're going to tell everyone what to do, and you're going to process it. And you really can't process culture. You can't you have to have written processes, but you can't force core values through processes. So you what I've found out is I had to grow my leadership, and once I started making some big time hires with it, started with Alicia, my design director. She's evolved into Director of Design. She came on as an interior designer, and then really leads the way through sales now. So she's a big part of the operation. She was a huge, a huge get Vicky in my office with operations and and having her manage cash flow and draws automatically, which we built a system around builder trend, so we're not requesting draws when we need money. We're requesting draws based on progress. And then there's been two key hires that really took me to the level we needed to be at, because we were I was still struggling, because I was pushing the ball up the hill and estimating and purchasing and in direct and in construction. When Dave Young came on board as my director of construction, it was, it was in August, and it was in 2020, 2023, and I, I tell people, I think my dad sent me a birthday present. My birthday is in August. I feel like he sent me a birthday present, because that as soon as he got here, it was like immediate. He he was no BS, get things done. It was like talking one on one to anyone that I would respect. It was amazing. And he got accomplished. He got immediately. We saw results. Schedule started to move better quality. We started weeding out the wrong project managers, which is definitely a problem. And previously, I did not have the person that I needed to in that position. And it was like, if you shouldn't have to lead your you shouldn't have to manage your leaders. You should help lead them, but when you have to manage them, they're the wrong leader. And then I had Ned Purcell come on as my estimator purchaser. Now there's we've got a few other leaders that got a great marketing director, got a great director of operations at the cabinet company, but having the core functions captured for a building company. It's it's like night and day.
Mark D. Williams 39:31
This episode is brought to you by Pella Northland. For 20 years, I've been using Pella windows, and I couldn't be happier to call them as a business partner, a trade partner, and someone that really supports us in our quality builds. You know, we use wood windows and doors on every single one of our homes, and 98% of every home that I've ever built has been a Pella window. I've gotten to know their team here, locally as well as nationally. And the way that they support us as a craftsman as well as they support our homeowners with their lifelong guarantee is actually been a. Game changer for me. So when people ask me who I use, I recommend Pella. If you want to hear more about Pella story, you can listen to episode one, Ryan interview Peter and Ed from Pella Northland about their journey into the Pella ownership. How big was your was it, Dave? You said that was probably one of the biggest he and Vicky in terms of like you said the day one, he helped explain that, like, how big was your company? Did you have sales coming in? How did you justify his salary? I mean, first of all, you got to find the guy which or the person, or the woman, whoever it is, for that role, which is always difficult. But I think one thing that paralyzes a lot of companies, myself included, is, you know, the chicken and egg, which one comes first? You know, if you build the mouse trap so it works, or did you get the money to get the sales first and then back fill the employee base. How did you handle that at that time?
R.B Gallup 40:44
Well, we were fortunate to have sales and cash flow. So yeah, I I definitely always look at the budget and the projections, and I would lean on that as my number one priority before and up to that point, I still do that. I think you have to have a balance between the two. You can't go from in the hole to insanely profitable. That's just not how I want to run a good business. I don't, personally, at least to this point, I don't invest in my own company. Everything is from within the company, and so the company should support your growth. Where that should you should be able to absorb some of it is in your profits. And it has to be a plan. And sometimes it's not a plan. I don't think I necessarily planned for 2023 to be a dead even year. I didn't, but we had to get things up and running, and it took some time. So I think it's when you can hire. You need to recruit the best. And what I found a lot of is good people have jobs already, and you need to recruit them. And Ned, Dave and Alicia all were working in various businesses, and so, you know, Ned, Dave didn't think I'd be able to get net. He goes, Oh, if you get Ned, your problems will go away. And, you know, that's a little bit of a overstatement, but he was pretty right. And he said, You're not going to be able to get Ned because he had been at this company had been established. But you know, if you grow a good culture where people want to work for you, and you pay them well and appropriately, they'll tell their friends and they'll help recruit.
Mark D. Williams 42:30
It's funny, you said that I have coffee with another builder, and I asked him this morning, he's been there 18 years, and I said to him, I said, out of curiosity, I said, has anyone ever approached you? He's in a sales position, and he's very talented. And I said, Has it ever approached you to try to poach you? He's like, no. I said, that really surprises me. And I said I told someone recently that if, because ultimately, well, I said if I had a war chest with enough money, I said I'd come after you. Young guy, super talented, amazing sales deals. And the point is, is, for myself, personally, is like, I do like sales, it's probably what I'm best at. And my The question is, of course, list is that, if you take your Do you have a job, or do you have a business, right? You, if you leave, your business would still operate. Mine, if I leave, it won't. And so therefore, I have a job and you have a business. And so now knowing just using that simple statement for me is going to help shape the hires I have going forward. And ultimately, I have to be able to replace myself. And so anyway, this individual could take a lot of that burden off of me. Plus, if the other thing is approaching someone who's never been approached before, sometimes they don't know what's out there. And there was somebody recently, it's not the worst thing in the worst thing in the world to test the waters. Everyone is going to likely say that they like loyalty. And I'm not saying suggesting that you don't. And I not sure I would trust someone who didn't show loyalty. Like I My Favorite Comment often, if you get called on by another window company or floor company or whatever, is, say, hey, we'd love your business. And they said, Well, I often say, Well, I've been working with this company for 20 years, and they're like, we can appreciate like, we can appreciate the loyalty that you have there. We would want that same loyalty if we were in a partner. Just consider us the next time there's a change. And I always thought that's a classy way to handle that, but I think that's true with I think you can apply that to people too. That's not just companies, and sometimes they just don't know what's out there, and things change. Maybe that little. I wasn't planning on hiring this guy, but who knows, maybe a couple years from now, I'll circle back and be like, remember when we had coffee and I said, if I had a war chest, I'd love to maybe see if you'd come over. Well, that day has arrived. What do you think? So we'll see
R.B Gallup 44:33
recruiting. Actually, I had a good taste of this with a one of my best project managers, Whitney Marsh. She's a senior project manager, and she's a rock star, just so solid, and she was working as a plan reviewer for the county, and I would, I like sent her a note, an email, and I said, Hey, you know anybody who might be XYZ? And that's a really, that's a subtle way. It to pop in and not be too threatened. Be like, Hey, do you know anyone like yourself? You could even go that part that would be willing to blah blah, and that's a pretty casual way to get some things. And she called me. She's, did you mean like me, or did you I mean someone like me? I was like, I mean you. I'm glad you're here. She showed up to our opening house for Gallup design build when we launched it. And that's pretty amazing to look back on, too. I think someone God sent her there, for sure, she's been a rock star. So
Mark D. Williams 45:30
that's funny. You say that I had your Vicky, my controller, my office, it's like my right hand. And so I've had a couple of amazing ones, and I've had two duds. And anyway, it was in the middle of a dud where I was like, Man, I need help. And this is before I had adaptive before, you know, I was using builder trend, before I had a lot of systems in place financially. And so I was like, I had been so dependent on my previous my original office manager slash controller used to own a title company. So she she was amazing. And so anyway, it got me thinking, like, Hey, I wonder if I can recreate a good story. So there was a not a closer, but she worked at the title company, and her name was Ellery. I mean, anyone in Minnesota has probably worked with Ellery. She's amazing. Anyway, I approached her one day and I said, Man, I'm Would you ever consider and I think she got that a lot. Turns out, she basically ran the company, and she was making a lot way beyond what I could afford. And there was some other personal things that didn't work out for her anyway. But to your point, I wasn't as subtle as you saying, Hey, do you know anyone like you? I was just like, Hey, would you ever I do like your idea, though, for those listening, that's a genius idea, plus the city, if you find a rock star at the city not saying that, they can't. But as a stereotype people listening this, as entrepreneurs, we don't usually have the greatest relationships with cities, or I shouldn't say we don't. We have a good relationship with them, but it's not like I put them on this great pedestal, and there are a few standouts that in I'm thinking of one right now. I'm like, Huh? I've never even thought about hiring her. So now the gears are turning a little bit, because they do talk about knowing the ins and outs of working with so many builders, you'd be hard pressed to find someone more qualified, depending on what your role is for them. Well, seeing
R.B Gallup 47:06
Whitney, and I tell her this all the time, I said, I know she was on a job that I was building when we were transitioning to project managers. I we were Robert and I each would build houses, and we had an assistant project manager kind of training under us. It was pretty good way to do it, actually, you know, but we just didn't take that next step. And that's, that's what we talked about earlier. But so she was on site, and we had this problem on us, on the job, and she helped me come up with a solution. We we fixed it, and said, How about this? And and you don't find that often that an inspector or a planned reviewer, someone on the site is wanting to be solutions focused, they'll just say, Oh no, you can't do that. And I tell her all the time, I was like, you stood out with an entrepreneurial mindset, a can do mindset. So I was that like you said, some of them, if you see them, if you see good people, pay attention and
Mark D. Williams 48:03
go after and I think it's, I don't think, I think it takes a lot more bravery, but I think looking outside our industry is something we need to do more often in terms of of, I think you can train this. You mentioned a little bit earlier, going after a culture or going after the right person, and then it's very common. A lot of the business books you and I read that the I heard recently, culture eats strategy for breakfast, and so, where you find this? But I had heard a story once, and I I've set it up on the podcast. Now I'm making myself a note. I'm gonna go find out where this story originated. But the story was, is that there was a builder, I think it was down in Florida, and he wanted to scale up his business. I don't know if it's commercial construction or what it was, but their biggest issue was client complaints. I'm sorry. It was a plumber. It was a plumbers company, as I recall. So he went to restaurants like, who has the best hospitality? So it's usually, you think of hotels and Maitre D's at restaurants and high end servers. And he went and got, I don't know the number, let's just say five to seven really well polished servers at high end restaurants. People skills are off the charts, obviously, good memories, good work ethic, amazing hospitality. And he trained them how to be plumbers, and they just killed it. I just think that's really cool story of looking outside your industry, you would not normally think of a plumber getting a bunch. I'm mainly curious how that sales strategy work, because, like, you would think personality wise, what would draw them in? I just think it's interesting to and I've probably been guilty of maybe trying to go too far outside the box, and just anyone could. There is, it's not that you should replace knowledge. There is a point where someone on your team has to know how to build stuff. It can't all be business. But, like, marketing doesn't have to be exclusive to building marketer. Could you could market anything. And so I think there are places in your team that they do not have to be building specific. I think we're seeing a lot of people. I'd read recently in the start or New York Times that a lot of, let's say, recent grads of MIT and some of these Harvard schools, rather than going into Wall Street and doing the 100 hours a week or whatever they. Buying those businesses. Essentially, they're printing cash, HVAC, plumbers, electricians. They are very profitable businesses. And guess what? Everyone needs them. And the future looks very bright for those fields. Honestly, if I could go back in time, I think I might start there as a business owners in those fields. You talk about repetition over and over again. The one thing that I've never liked about the building model that we do, and you do a little bit too, is that repeat clients. You spend all this time acquiring a client. It's not like I get to build 10 or 20 or 100 homes for one person, where a plumber, your plumber. I should speak for myself, my plumber has worked for my family. We've worked together for 40 years, every home I've ever done, every home that my dad has ever done. So at this point, there are over 1000 homes he only made. He guess he keeps on making the sale by doing a good job. But you get the point, like I've built, I think I have one client. I've done two projects for two versus 1000 I think I'll take the 1000. Thank you. Yeah, but
R.B Gallup 50:54
the hiring is such a it's a complex, hard subject. I've had some great successes when going outside the box. Alicia, I was interviewing 1099 designers to work with us. That's how we used to do it. And then I said, she's just, we were kind of talking, and she goes, I've been looking for a place to call home, more or less said that. And I thought about, I said, you know, let's just go for this. And I just made her an offer, and it the gut paid off. The gut also did that. I had a marketing director, our director of marketing now, we had a meeting with her. She's a photographer, and her husband's a photographer, excuse me, her boyfriend's a photographer. And I just, I said, You know what? This Amy, she gets it. She gets the social media. I see her notes. I like how many notes she's got. She's very organized, ambitious. Has lots of ideas. Extended her an offer, and she came to work with us. So if you have a good culture, people will want to work for you. You can tap into them easier than you think, if you take care of the people you have, but I do have a square peg in a round hole syndrome, where my solution is often to, let's just hire a person for that. And so I've had to really work on when we talk about processes, hiring process, hiring an interview process, has to go hand in hand with bringing in the right people, figuring out that they're actually the right people, simple things like calling all the references and making sure you get a hold of them. We've we've had some situations where we didn't do that and didn't pay off, but we've done we've worked it to a T and it's paid off beautifully. So process with culture and a little bit of intuition is kind of the key. You gotta you gotta have a little magic. But you can't just be out there shooting, shooting from the hip all the time.
Mark D. Williams 52:54
Oh, I agree. I'm definitely just a magic shooter. That process was like, I've made some bad hires, because ultimately, I joked before. I'm an optimist. I love people. I think the best of people, which I wouldn't want to go through life, honestly, a different way, but it makes me pretty susceptible to bad actors or people. I just think everyone's 10, 10x of what they are. And sometimes people are not 10x of what they are. And I just think those are potential is. And I guess I'd rather again. So I've decided, actually, a year ago, I'm no longer hiring anyone. I have a small company. I only have three people currently four, and we're gonna hire someone here in about 3040, days. But my Joel, my controller, he's kind of grumpy. Still skins. I like him a lot, but he's definitely got, like, he's got a it's like, perfect. He balances me out right. And so he I said, You are in charge of all interviews. If it makes it through you and Mike, then I'm probably gonna say yes anyway, because we know that I like everybody, it's actually a relief that I don't have to my team will create its own culture to your point. You don't have to do it all, and not that the owner can't make recommendations or some of those things. But I had someone, I've had a couple friends, that I thought were good fits, and having the team vet it and help expose maybe your own blind spots, is super helpful. And so anyway, we'll see how the future pans out for me in that department, but I'm excited about it.
R.B Gallup 54:08
Yeah. So one, one crucial ask I didn't talk about this stuff is getting outside help. We talk about builder 20, and that's been a huge help for me. But I also brought in a past client who was a COO of a technology company locally, and he worked for me for a year, helping with system and process. And he helped me a lot of it was just writing it out and working on that. But one of the things that we really did, that's probably been the best thing he brought on, was the interview process where we maybe three to four people, will interview someone for 15 to 20 minutes. I'll probably go 45 minutes because I like to talk too much. And then we all get together with our notes, and we hold up our fists like this, and we go, thumbs up, thumbs down, all. At once. We don't look when we gotta close our eyes and do it, and it's interesting. So sometimes it's full alignment. I've had a situation where there was a room full of thumbs up, and I was like this, thumbs middle, and I went against my gut. I'll tell you this little story because my team thinks it's hilarious now, and I'm letting a little secret out for future hires, but this guy came to an interview with a hat on. And I might be a little old school here, but I was like, I don't I think that's a poor judge, judgment call to come to an interview with a hat on for not an entry level position. It was a project manager, good position. And I said, you know, guys, I know it's silly, but I'm kind of on the fence. That's my thing. And I kind of said, You know what? Alright, I'm going to look past this. You know, we're in 2022 right now. We need to get past tattoos and hats and whatever. So I'm not going to worry about that. And he turned out to be a, not a serious person. And so it turns out that, yeah, my assessment. Sometimes
Mark D. Williams 56:03
that's amazing story. I love it. Why? Oh man, my mom would love I'm gonna send her this podcast episode, because she's all about those trusting your gut and you've, I don't know if you've read Malcolm Gladwell is blink before, but basically, our intuition is pretty freaking powerful, and the one of the lines out of that book, or one of the chapters, was they had 12 people interview one person and run them through the ringers, and then they had, I don't know how they did this, exactly as a control group of another 12 people. They interviewed that person for six seconds, the conclusions were the same. And so you think, Well, man, what can you get in six seconds? But it's a handshake, it's eye contact. And oddly enough, I had an interview with an I had a client fly into town from Kansas City, and we were interviewing architects. And one of, you know, one of the ways that the architect was interacting with the client was just sort of interesting to for me to watch. And I asked the client later about it. I won't speak about it, because they actually listen to the podcast a lot, and it was mainly just a nuance on their body language. And I'm not saying it's positive or negative. It was just an observation, but it's just interesting that our blink on people is often is a lot more accurate than we think it is. We're taught not to judge a book by its outside cover, yet outside cover. There's a reason why they hire really high end illustrators to to do the artwork on books, because it helps sell the book. And in this case, obviously this hat was was a death blow to this guy. Out of curiosity, was this, we did our SWOT analysis when we came out, and one of the people that we, our group, was not impressed with, ended up being like he was already
R.B Gallup 57:35
gone. So no, he was we had. But let's not get into all the journeys I will say we you have to have the right people in the right seat, and until you have leadership over that, that's when we started having more stability there and the correct people. Just imagine if I was running around doing sales, estimating and then construction. Well, I can't keep all my concentration on one thing at a time, so, but as as we created processes, written processes allow you to see who's who's following through with what we're supposed to be doing. One of our core, I was just gonna say one of our core values is we do what we say, and just core values have been huge, and the simple act of writing them down on some acrylic boards and putting them in all rooms of our office is huge. And we talk about them, and we give awards for them, and we live them. They're not aspirational. And we tell people, if you're not aligning with our core values, then this is not a fit so
Mark D. Williams 58:46
well. I was going to ask you about that because I've had a strong desire to want to write a bunch of stuff down and have How To your point, even the SLPs right, write them all down. But there's writing them all down, which takes a ton of time and effort to really make it you're sure you could have chat GPT running up some boiler plate stuff, and maybe that's a good first draft, but you really got to make it your own to your point. But then the question is, the team is like, hey, we need to build we need to get stuff done. And they likely are. They wouldn't have been here this long if they weren't already exhibiting a lot of that. But how do you get team buy in to because what they see is the owner is distracted when they should be out selling and they're writing procedural documentation, which usually is not the most exciting thing for your project managers to be looking at, or your people. Some people like documentation more than others, but some are like, I just want to get out there and get stuff done. How is your team respond to that when you were implementing, you know all this documentation
R.B Gallup 59:39
Well, it starts with, if you're not following the process, you're not going to work here, and everyone can have mistakes, but hey, this is our process. Let's point it back to it. Most of the time they're not following the process because it's not clearly defined and communicated. I really do believe whether it's a client. It, or whether it's a employee, if you have a misalignment problem, it's, it's mostly your fault. Yeah, there's some level of truth to a lot of problems, so you have to fix that and accept it so clearly, defining them and communicating them. We'll have, we'll have training sessions, but we'll also train every week. We have a weekly meeting pulse, you know, it's a EOS principle. Everyone has a weekly meeting. And during that meeting, there's a line item training that you'd pop up an operation or an operations item or a construction item, and you pull it up and you you all train on it together. And then we have a system that reinforces it. We've built out a system with builder trend, where we have to do's which are checklist built into the schedule items, and it all evolves around. Is your schedule current? Is it up to date? Is it a three week look ahead, and you can find out real quick if it's not, because you have a lot of to do's that are behind, and if your to do's are behind and you're not checking them off, and you've actually poured the footings and you haven't done your footing checklist, we have a problem. So systems reinforce culture, and they create freedom. I would say discipline creates freedom, versus discipline captures, you know, discipline doesn't destroy creativity. It allows for people to operate freely and not miss the little things.
Mark D. Williams 1:01:33
Clearly you're following, uh, some Jocko Willick advice there. He's made that one pretty famous, discipline equals freedom. Have you ever heard that song that he made?
R.B Gallup 1:01:42
I haven't heard the song, but I've heard someone's ahead, and then
Mark D. Williams 1:01:46
I I'll send you. He's got a he's got he's because he's got a great couple books, right, the economy of leadership and blinking on the other one, but his big principle is what you just said, he actually made, like, a kind of like trance slash music. But I'll send it to you after, because you're going to totally dig it when you're going to totally dig it when you're running, because I know you're going for a workout. You and I could talk for days. I mean, there's, there's a couple other things I want to talk about, but I want to respect your time. Keep it at an hour for the listeners, we'll have everything in the show notes, your company, your Instagram handle, which is great, and I really appreciate you taking the time coming on and dropping some nuggets on scaling. And I know every time I talk to you, it makes me, I mean, I realize it's funny. I talked about about this a lot on the podcast that I builders like you, I find really inspiring. Like, there's a It's not intimidating, it's it's eye opening, because you look, I've seen all the work you've done, like, literally, I've seen the book that you had for us, and it's just, it's impressive. And you need the knowledge, we also need the kind of the willpower behind it, and you have both. And I think, like, even right now, like I have my my I have three main goals for the year, but I'm already thinking right now at writing my ship financially this year and then next year, makes me want to go all in on the Eos. Everyone that has done it to some version or another seems to do very, very well. Do you out of curiosity? Do you have an implementer that you worked with to sort of help with that? Or did you end up sort of doing it? You said you've hired outside help? Outside help before,
R.B Gallup 1:03:04
right? So we self implemented it. And I, again, I used, I had my hire of a fractional COO, if you will, kind of help running and moderate meetings and stuff. And that was very helpful. But like you just mentioned, it like I being a part of these groups. I don't think I'm good at creating the I didn't come up with any of these ideas. I am. I think I'm good at listening and looking for people who are where I want to be, and then doing what they're doing. And a lot of people know what to do. It's just breaking it down into bite sized actions and doing it,
Mark D. Williams 1:03:41
I think, I think you're right. You're right. Well, I appreciate coming on. We'll have everything, a show of notes, and for those listening, thanks for tuning the cures builder podcast. You can join us on Thursdays for 20 minute Q and A's and Monday's weekly for our podcast like this, to help improve your business. Thanks again for tuning to the cures builder podcast. We're excited to announce that the cures builder collectives are going into three other states. For those not familiar with what the collective is, it lives between what the contractor coalition is and a builder 20 group. What we do in each state is we have a group of 25 to 30 builders that get in a room and you break up into groups of nine. You spend 45 minutes talking about a set topic, whether it's branding, marketing, contracts, whatever that set topic is for that day, and then you talk for 45 minutes, you get up, you mix up the groups, and you do it again, and you're out of there. You'll be out in under three hours. We're going to be going to Phoenix Arizona. Brad Levitt is going to be leading a curious collective in Phoenix, Arizona. We are going to San Antonio. We've got David and Angela Penske from Penske homes, leading a group down there. And we have Brad Robinson and Vince Longo in Atlanta, Georgia, also leading a collective as well as obviously me in Minnesota as well, for our second annual collective. So you're interested in collaborating with other builders, if you really want to dive deep on your business in a person to person relationship, ask a lot. Questions the collectives are for you. We also have in Minnesota interior design collective as well as the architect collective. Check out the Events page at the cures builder podcast.com thanks for tuning in the cures builder podcast. If you like this episode, do us a favor. Share it with three other business owners. The best way that we can spread what we're doing is by word of mouth, and with your help, we can continue to help other curious builders expand their business. Please share it with your friends, like and review online, and thanks again for tuning in. You.
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