Episode 121 - 43 Years, No Website, All Word of Mouth—Mary Wozniak’s Surprising Path to Design Success
#121 | Mary Wozniak | Shadowfalls Design LLC | Mary Wozniak’s Surprising Path to Design Success
In this episode of The Curious Builder Podcast, host Mark Williams sits down with longtime family friend and uber-talented designer Mary Wozniak from Shadow Falls Design. Mary shares her journey from running a bustling paint and design store on Grand Avenue in St. Paul to building a personal, client-centered design business and reflects on key lessons learned, from valuing relationships and privacy to navigating challenges and embracing the changing design industry. The conversation is full of warmth, personal anecdotes (including the famous inside-out couch!), and offers great advice on staying true to your values while growing as an entrepreneur.
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About Mary Wozniak
A knack for color, a love of people, and a space in the window of a paint store on Grand Ave. in St. Paul started my journey in design 40 years ago. In that time, I’ve created beautiful spaces all over the US – from homes in the Midwest and cabins up north to western mountain condos and southwest desert getaways.
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Mark D Williams
let's not fight each other. Let's be unified, so that when the project says, Ah, I'm rearing my head, I want to fight. We as a team can say we've got this Yeah, and we were aligned. Yeah, wow. Absolutely you and I were. The rest you'll have to pay a subscription fee for the rest of that story today,
Mark D. Williams 00:31
in the curious cover podcast, we had Mary Wozniak in from shadow falls design. I've known Mary Well, I should say she's known me for 44 years, my entire life, longtime family friend, Uber talented designer. Without further ado, here is Mary Wozniak. Welcome to curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today I'm joined with a very special guest. I've got Mary Wozniak in from shadow falls design. Welcome Mary. Thank you so you have. You've known me since before I was born. I have. It's that's a long, long time coming. Why don't you know, it's funny because we had Billy Beeson on last week before you, and he had known so everyone's gonna think, oh, man, you only have these people have known you forever. But I think that's what's so fun about the business that we're in, is these long standing relationships. And then you and I actually had the, you know, the privilege to work together on a project, and hopefully some other ones coming up here at some point in the future as well. And so I wanted to bring in, obviously, hear your story and how you got to be an entrepreneur and where you find yourself at today. So thank you. Let's go back to the beginning. Tell us about this young girl in Saint Paul and how you become, you know, this powerhouse designer that you have become. And, wow,
Mary Wozniak 01:35
thank you. Yeah, it's been, it's been a fun ride. So I studied journalism in school, and was married. And right after we were married, my husband bought a business. It's just an investment on Grand Avenue in Saint Paul, which was our neighborhood. And one day I was just, you know, chatting with him about goals and things I wanted to do. And after renovating a condominium of ours on Summit Avenue, and people coming in and saying, oh my gosh, you know, like, wow, could you help me? And I just found that, like, design kept coming to me, like, Mary, can you pick out our paint colors, or could you help us with arranging our furniture? And it was just something that I would gravitate toward, and loved it. And so I think this, this whole idea of a paint store, I thought, Wow, I feel like I should do something with that. Like, just threw it out there to my husband. He was like, Hey, go for it. So this is what your young 20s, yeah, it was 24 Yeah, yeah. So I was like, wow, really? I mean, like, what? And he was like, I don't know. Like, I don't know design,
Mark D. Williams 02:37
just have at it. Yeah, you're passionate. Go for it.
Mary Wozniak 02:41
So we had a building that had been run a 40 year, you know, paint store on Grand Avenue that did very well and on its own, and had about a 4550 foot window on Grand Avenue. And at that time was kind of little. It was a tired Avenue. It was, it was just starting to turn over a little bit. And so I started with a desk in the window, and I took that 50 foot window and filled it with fabric and wallpaper and color and life and new signage and just a day at a time and a client at a time, attracted clients in the neighborhood and people looking for wallpaper and old Victorian homes and beautiful Summit, Avenue, crocus Hill, Ramsey Hill, cathedral Hill, what an incredible place to start like so grateful I look back and I'm so grateful for the opportunity, because it really forged relationships that continue today. You know, it just, it was just an incredible opportunity, and I took it because I loved it, and I found passionate about it, and I think people know that about me. And so today, moving like through that, you know, realizing that, wow, this is really something I love. But I think that what I also realized in the process is that I really like my clients. I didn't love running a big business. It ended up being where I was taking care of, you know, more like other designers that I had hired and all the other things that come with running a big business and even hiring people to do those things. I realized that bottom line I now was, you know, 10 years down the road, and in this store on Grand Avenue, this design store, it was called Grand interiors, by the way, and I decided that I was gonna sell it.
Mark D. Williams 04:30
So just to summarize, so how big did it come in terms of employees?
Mary Wozniak 04:35
Well, I think at one time we had about 12. So I had a bookkeeper, a manager. We had a paint store that was connected. But I did divide, initially. Eventually, I did divide the store, from the paint store to the design. And you know, it was funny during those years, paint was not at Lowe's. It wasn't at Home Depot, because Home Depot didn't exist. So over the years, the paint business would just linger. Mm. Yeah, it was going away where the design business was really growing. And so that was an interesting thing too, because eventually we just sold the paint business, and then I did sell the design business as well.
Mark D. Williams 05:12
Did you find is it accurate to say that, you know, as you grew, you then were further away from the client, and what you enjoyed
Mary Wozniak 05:22
is that what, I think that's exactly what was happening. Yeah, that's exactly
Mark D. Williams 05:25
because then you're running your business, right? It's, you know, we've talked a lot about on this podcast, just running a business, and it's everyone runs it differently. I've, you know, for a long time for myself. It's like, I didn't want to grow big because I thought scaling just, I wasn't interested in it, and now I'm interested in it for different reasons, because I want to buy back some of my time, right? And, you know, maybe, you know, show up to the client in a different way. And so anyway, we all sort of navigate this at different points of our life. And, you know, personal
Mary Wozniak 05:49
life, yeah. And when you start, I was working nine to five, six days a week, and that was okay with being I didn't have children, but within that 1012, year range of owning that business, you know, I had three sons, and I wanted to spend more time with them, and I just wanted more control over my own my own time. And then I think I realized, too, that my passion is really with my client, really running that that design business in a much more personal way, as opposed to, like, retail store. And the only way I could really do that is if I sold it, moved on and just created a separate business, and I opened a studio down at International Market Square and called shadow falls design, and I have been doing that ever since, and it was a good move for me. Yeah, you
Mark D. Williams 06:34
know, how did you going back? Because you're in a unique position. Because, you know, sometimes it's fun, from an entrepreneurial standpoint is like, How does someone sell their business like you grew it and you sold it? What looking back now, who did you sell it to? Would you have navigated that differently today, or walk us through the sale of your company back then?
Mary Wozniak 06:53
So I had a fellow interior designer who I actually went to grade school with, who had approached me way back, sort of asking if I wanted a partner. And I thought about, I thought didn't really need a partner. I felt like I didn't really want to navigate a partner, and so I decided not to go that direction. And then down the road, I realized when I was ready to leave, I thought I was going to give him a call, and I did give him a call, and said, Hey, I'm kind of interested in maybe selling this business. Are you interested? And he said, Absolutely. And so we actually spent about eight months with a mediator, somebody who we sort of just talked through because, I mean, this ended up being, you know, kind of my baby before I had babies, yeah. And so I was concerned about my clientele that I was leaving on Grand Avenue, that I had, you know, worked so hard to develop and wanted to make sure that the person I was leaving that business to was going to take care of them the same way that I did, or in a similar manner. You know, obviously. And then I had quite a few employees at that time that I really wanted to make sure that we navigated them together and who we were comfortable. And what we ended up doing is he bought the business and I stayed on for about three years, because St Paul is a very in that neighborhood. It's a very family kind of orientated community, and I wanted to make sure he was coming from the outside of St Paul. Wanted to make sure that people you know felt familiar to him and could kind of meet him and get to know Him. And so after about three years, I did leave, and then I went down to International Market Square. It's funny, though, when I look back like I've known this, this man for many, many years, since I we were little kids, and we were laughing about we both had this tendency as young children to love design, like he would go in and move people's, you know, tchotchkes on their tables and things like that, even as a little as a young man, and I would line up kids in the Minnehaha Parkway area, and I, you know, they pay a quarter. And I'd knock on people's doors and give tours like Jacqueline Kennedy. I mean, I saw her do it. Like, why wouldn't I do it, you know? Like, it's funny. I mean, that you look back at these little children and what their tendencies are and what their interests are, my parents would go out on a Friday or Saturday night, and I'd move all the furniture in their house, and they come back and go, Whoa, wow, Mary, yeah, like you were busy. That's funny, yeah. And so funny things like that kind of you realize, oh, this is something that has been bubbling in me for a really long time, and I'm just so grateful I found it.
Mark D. Williams 09:20
How long did that business exist after you left it?
Mary Wozniak 09:24
You know, I really didn't keep track of it, to be honest with you today, it's a shoe store, okay, yeah, so I still live in that neighborhood, and it's funny, I missed it, you know, you kind of not mourn it. But there was something really beautiful about watching something like that blossom
Mark D. Williams 09:39
was kind of nostalgic. Yeah, back and you think this was a beautiful time. You learned a lot. I mean, what are so what are, what were some things that you learned, what and what were some hardships that you encountered in that first phase of your career? Well,
Mary Wozniak 09:50
I think I learned a lot about myself. There were at that point I hadn't run a business before. I worked in many different ways, like even as like a college. Student. I did windows for a lot of stores, but they were clothing stores, and how did I ever start to do that? Right? I worked out at the airport and did all their displays. I mean, just, you know, so was something that really I gravitated for toward, always and but I realized this whole thing of running a business and being responsible for other people, and I didn't really enjoy it. I just didn't really enjoy it in the same way that I enjoy running a project, taking care of my clients, making sure that they're that that's where my heart is. Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 10:35
I mean, it's nice that I think we all have to go through different experiences to realize who we are. We talked recently in another podcast, where you live? For me specifically, it was like, probably, like 22 to 31 those were, like, the years were figuring out who you well, who you are, where you're going to live, what you're going to do, who you're going to marry, all those huge, life altering decisions. But a lot of it's just figuring out who you are now, who's Mary, who's mark. I think the nice part about someone who was lamenting the other day that they were middle age. I'm like, I love middle age. Like I know who I am. I know what my purpose is. Like having clarity of purpose is and not that. Sometimes it doesn't have to be age dependent. I mean, you could, you could struggle your whole life to find out who you are, what you are. You could also find out very early. And you just mentioned, as a young girl looking back, it's only through the hindsight that you realized, Hey, I had a talent and a knack for this early on, yeah, but it kind of makes you, I'm sure, like with your kids, did, did that lesson sort of pass on as you sort of looked at your kids as a parent and sort of empower them and say, Hey, I think this is something that you're probably gonna be really interested in. Or did that not, or were they already older before that sort of dawned on you? I don't
Mary Wozniak 11:38
know that about my kids. I think another thing too, during that age of 23 my parents died when I was 20 and 23 years old. So as I look back at a young woman, I was grieving very terribly at that age of my life, and I feel like that business was healing. You know, it was like I was planting seeds during that time, and I feel like it was so healing to me to be able to think of somebody other than myself and maybe my own sadnesses and just to give back to my community. It just felt so healing that honestly, by the time I sold that business, I think that I had put a lot of that to rest. I mean, it's never gone that kind of grief of losing your parents when you're so young. But it also was, I just look at it as such an incredible gift.
Mark D. Williams 12:28
I think one of the things, like, if I was describing you just because I've known you for so long, yeah, is you prioritize other people in the way that you show up for other people and care about other people. But one thing, it's a simple thing. But I know, like, for instance, I know that next week, I will get a card in the mail from you that's handwritten, because it's one of your literally your signature. And I know it might sound like a simple thing to people that don't do it. I guess I'd asked audiences, when was the last time you gotten a handwritten thank you card? Yeah. And what did it say on it? What was the intention behind it? And I feel like you're definitely an old soul in the sense of like you like to connect to people on a very deep personal level even, but we'll talk a little bit, you know, what we can talk about it now, and a little bit about, you know, even, like your brand, like the clientele that you gravitate towards, I feel like you are uniquely suited to that because You are all integrity and class and just a high you just have a high degree of struggling with the word here. But just like you really want to people to know that you care about your interactions with them, and it shows up in your design, and it shows up with how you conduct yourself as a business woman. And so it's just really interesting. I only share that because obviously the audience wouldn't know that about the letters. At what point did you did you model that after someone, or at what point was that kind of your calling card that you would do that so often? Did that even develop in the store? I'm thinking of you writing thank you letters to the people that came in to buy paint.
Mary Wozniak 13:55
That's exactly what I did. In fact, I think it actually started is all the thank you notes, writing for your wedding like I had never had to write so many thank you notes and to come up with creative ways of saying that. I think it mattered to me that each person felt like it really their gift. Mattered to me because it did, but I really made it like a full time job. It was, yeah, that was stressful,
Mark D. Williams 14:21
like, I had to come up with a job so I could keep writing notes.
Mary Wozniak 14:25
Somebody said to me, I think you should just write two or three notes that are really good and then just put the name. And I said, Oh, I can't do that, yeah. But I think that yes, people would come into the paint store, and that was kind of my way of marketing myself. You know, I didn't have any big budget. We were really young, and we were scrappy and working. My husband are both working hard to build a life together, and so that was a way for me to let somebody know that I appreciated them coming in, stopping in. And I think you remember that it's just like, Thank you. You know I appreciate you stopping in. That was great. I come back if you need something. I. Else. I still do that today. You're right. It's it is my marketing. I'm not on Instagram with anything. I don't share client pictures, client information. A lot of times, people say, Oh, who you working with? And I'm like, that is not I don't share that. I feel like my clients know that. I usually tell that really upfront. You can talk about me as much as you want, or your project, or anything that you want, but I won't. And I found out really early, especially I think in St Paul and maybe other cities are like this, but it's very sisters, brothers, aunts and uncles, everybody's kind of related. And I just never wanted anyone to ever feel like there was any kind of gap in my privacy for them, my respect really for their privacy when
Mark D. Williams 15:50
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Mary Wozniak 18:19
I think the road to that was just respect, honestly. I mean, when I really look back, it's like I was a young girl. I didn't, I didn't, you know, have those kinds of boundaries at that age of my life. But as I invested in myself and invested in my business, I realized that these were things that I valued. And so it was really from my values and my respect for my clients, my respect for myself, because I'm a private person in a lot of ways and other ways I'm not at all, you know, but, but I want to respect that on other people. And so that's how it started, and then I just kind of drew a line around it. And occasionally somebody will say, Oh, I heard you're working with so and so, you know, obviously they told you or and I'll say, Yeah, I mean, I don't make it like it, you know,
Mark D. Williams 19:10
it's you don't say something like, I can neither confirm nor deny that allegation You've been served. Let me get my lawyer on the line here. There's a cease and desist order here, people.
Mary Wozniak 19:19
But I just try, just, well, I love leaning into that. I mean, I think
Mark D. Williams 19:23
it is who you are, and I think it's a beautiful thing. And I, you know, you have some, you know, very high end clients, and I would imagine that they respect their privacy,
Mary Wozniak 19:34
right? But I never wanted to feel like I was like an elephant Hunter, either. It's not like, I mean, I started in a paint store. So let's get real. Yeah, right. And so, you know, people would say to me, why are you working in a paint store? And it was like, I wanted to start at that space. I wanted to build on something that was grounded, that was seated, that was built on, like day by day, week by week. 43 years later, it went by. So. Quickly, but I feel like I am rooted deeply and rooted in my community and respect for the people that I work for, and and and my family, and I also want to honor my family and make sure that I'm the best I can be out there for them as well as for me. So that's kind of how it that's how I got there when
Mark D. Williams 20:20
you move to IMS under shadow falls, how did you pick the name shadow falls design? Oh
Mary Wozniak 20:26
my gosh. I went around and around about different, different Grand interiors. Was so easy because way I was on Grand Avenue, right? But, oh, like, how do you find a name? And I, you know, I didn't necessarily want it to be on in my name. Someone had told me that it's really best not to have your name as your business. And I'm like, Okay, I took that. I don't even know why, but so my husband and I kind of were going over names, and we lived in a neighborhood in St Paul called shadow falls as just a great little neighborhood by St Thomas University. And I thought, oh, shadow falls. Yeah, it sounded good to me. And so there you are. Yeah, I
Mark D. Williams 21:03
love that. Yeah, there was that. We had a couple on a couple years ago, Clark and Aldean, and that is, the streets of their home addresses are like where they met. So their names are Michael and Danielle. But like everyone asked that Clark and Aldean was I just like that? There's, I love a story behind, you know, the naming convention. I Nobody gave me that advice. By the way, Mark D Williams custom homes. I was like, ever, you know, probably because dad was David A Williams construction, right? So you model it after what, you know. But you know, we actually went through a branding exercise trying to figure out if we could rename it. But, you know, just because you rename it doesn't make it something different. And so at that point, after 20 years, you're kind of like, well, this is what it is. Yeah,
Mary Wozniak 21:42
yeah. I've had a couple marketing people come to me too. Can we change that now?
Mark D. Williams 21:46
Way down the road, way down the road. Yeah, we're good. We're good with this one. So how many of the clients followed you from St Paul to IMS? Did you have a non compete clause or without not really a thing, or you
Mary Wozniak 21:58
were, no, I didn't. I didn't. I'm. He went on and built his his career and still as a designer today, and I went on with my my clients and the people who follow. Okay, so it just was never an issue, Yep, yeah, which is never an issue at all. Yeah, yeah.
Mark D. Williams 22:13
One of the things that I admire about you and having seen you interact with a few clients, but we were just talking so you're part of our curious design collective, and you had mentioned before we came up here that let's say the average age is definitely below, let's say 45 Below 50. And there were, well, tell the story you had shared. What was the conflict that came up? And then you were asked,
Mary Wozniak 22:31
Oh, so we were in a collective a couple weeks ago, and by far, most, most of the women in the group, men and women, were under the age of 45 I would say I'm 70 years old, and I was there because I am curious, like you are super curious, about how people are running the businesses today, what we're talking about, all the different topics that come up in your collective which I absolutely loved and will continue to, you know, to be part of. But it was clear that I was definitely the oldest girl in the room, you know, and so everyone kind of shared their different marketing paths and what they were doing. And that's really, it's very planned today. And they talked a lot about social media, how they are in social media, all the different marketing people that they've hired, that they only do jobs that are over a million dollars. And I just, I really, just sat there and listened, wow, this is so different than how I started 43 years ago, right? It just was so different. But listened really intently on kind of how everyone was navigating, fascinated to it. And then they came to me, and they go, Mary, so how do you market? Oh, wow. I said, Well, word of mouth. And they kind of looked at me blankly, and what word of mouth? And I said, Well, you know, I've worked for 43 years, and word of mouth to me is just like it's always worked for me. I don't have a social presence and I don't have a website, although I'm working on one. And I said, I, you know, my clients have really encouraged me to have a website, because they would like to tell their friends or show their house or so. I said I'm conflicted by that, because I really respect people's privacy, and don't want to say, Oh, that's so and so's house, or that's so and so's house. But people don't seem to be as concerned about it as I am. So I said, that's something I move I'm leaning into. So I told them a story about a project I had done in the last couple years, I did a whole condominium building and, you know, public areas. And one day, a man followed me out to my car, and he said, Hey, you do not have a website, like, where did Who hired you? And I said, Oh. I said, Hi, I'm Mary. You obviously know I, I'm
Mark D. Williams 24:37
working the website. Police here, this guy sounds highly aggressive. He was,
Mary Wozniak 24:42
he was and I had just finished the whole project, and I think he had come into the condominium association late, and so I understood he just wanted some information. So I said, hey, what can I tell you? What do you want to know about me? And he said, Why don't you have a website? And I said, to be honest with you, I've been in the business for 42 years. And it's kind of working for me. And he just looked at me. He goes, what, like, where did you come from? And so I said, I'm, you know, if you want to see photos, or, you know, really, you've seen my work, but if you have any questions or you're concerned or you need something, I'm, I'm here, you have my number. So we moved on from that. But it was a funny moment, because it was like, Yeah, this is people are looking at this differently today, and I need to acknowledge that and maybe lean into it a little bit more. And that's one of the reasons I've been coming to the collective to like, okay, let's, let's get present here. Let's see what's going on in the market that I'm unaware of, and how can I grow and change? You know, like, I'm not retiring,
Mark D. Williams 25:40
yeah, and I think there is a, you know, you mentioned that you're a private person. I'm the opposite, yeah, one of the least private people I know. And I think you just play to who you are, right? It's being authentic. It's showing up how you don't have it's not hard for me to to do video. People ask me sometimes, like, how do you do all the video? Like, it's fun. I enjoy it. It's passion, it's whatever. Just I don't have the filter. So you just are what you are and and I think you just whoever you are, whatever your personality type is, like, Do you like it? Because there's a place for everybody, and there's clientele for everyone. I'm sure there are. There are clients that have not worked with me, because I'm likely to out there. Yeah, two out there, and I have in our contract, like, a lot of those that do a lot of social media or video, like we have the right to photography our home or videography or home or document it, and that's part of marketing. How did you find us Mr. Client or Mrs. Client, if you didn't do it that way? And I've only ever had it happen be an issue once and and we work through it, and because it's not I don't want my client to feel uncomfortable. No, it is hard for me to relate, however, to someone who is super private, because I'm not now I can respect their decision, yeah, but to say that I truly understand it to a certain level, obviously I can, but to some level I can't anyway, so I guess it's probably trying to meet people on their terms. Because there are some people that are like, Oh, I love seeing the house being published, or they, you know, so there's you just, I think you just your Your vibe attracts your tribe. I think people that are, you know, birds of a feather, flock together. There's all these analogies of like, people that come together. I'm just curious, like, have you had jobs that you've won because you are private and because people know that their privacy is sort of protected?
Mary Wozniak 27:14
I think so, yeah, yeah, I definitely think so. But they think of you and I working together, like we've worked together so well. I mean, you know, you brought me in on a huge project many years ago, yeah, and, and we really it was through COVID, yeah,
Mark D. Williams 27:28
that was a wild project. We we and
Mary Wozniak 27:30
we really did it like we were on it every day together for, like, what, three years.
Mark D. Williams 27:34
Yeah, that house was beautiful, you know, what? So what's interesting, because you and I have known each other for a long time. We had a cabin in Montana, in Glacier Park for 20 some years, 25 years. And one of the favorite things that I remember as I became older, from a teen into a young man, was, you know, Mom, my mom, who wasn't a designer, or who was a designer, had you come out? Because sometimes we see things all the time, even designers and builders in their own space, sometimes need to refresh. And you came in and sort of remodeled the main level in terms of stylistic. And we were just talking about before he came on, like, my dad and I loved, you know, the twin benches, like, I can still see it in my mind, what it looked like. And the home that we're talking about was a home where it was a very, you know, the client wanted a, you know, a home that was very much like, you know, Jackson Hole, that kind of thing. And so I'm like, I know the perfect person, and it's married because she did it for our personal cabin. Plus I'd never worked with you before, so I'm like, this is going to be great. And it was, you know, we're, I'm so proud of the home that we built together. Incredible home, so incredible. And, you know, you look at during, no one could have forecast that was happening during COVID. So we had to navigate. I think that's the biggest thing I've learned over my career is when you align yourself with people that are in alignment with let's let's find solutions, not problems. Let's get things done and people you just generally like being around, like the rest of it, you can kind of figure out and and I think one of the things I love about my job as a builder is as I get to interview different designers and architects like not every one designer, one architect or one builder, is the right for every one person like this mixture of the team has to be right for everyone involved, frankly. And we all have different parts to play. And one of the things that I love is competence. And you ooze competence, and especially in you know that particular home, there's a lot of difficult, challenging things that happened. And you we didn't have an architect, we didn't know, yeah, so you and I, we pretty much designed it. We did. And that was, you know,
Mary Wozniak 29:28
trusted each other. There was this incredible trust that we had, right? And you'd say, What do you think? And I'd say, you know, Mark, hey, we need to do this. And it was like, there were no questions. There was just flexibility. There was like, we always wanted the best for a client. And you and I both came that's where we were coming from. We wanted the best product.
Mark D. Williams 29:47
I look back at, like, our career, or, sorry, my career, yeah, and I look at and that wasn't that many years ago, right? It's only five years ago, but how much I've changed in terms of, like, who I work with. And, you know, someone asked. The other day, like, you know, because there are number of different skill sets. You can have a drafts person, a home designer, an architect. You can have a classically designed, you know, interior design. I mean, there's so many different skill levels in these talents, right? And it's still assembling the right team, and that particular team was the right team for that client, and what their budget was and what they wanted, yada yada yada, but looking back like you and I had to do the job like it would have been a really nice to have an architect, because all that plan was, like, six pages.
Mary Wozniak 30:29
They didn't want one though. Remember, I know they were like, Oh no, we're good with you too. And we're like, and
Mark D. Williams 30:34
we can, and we and we and we know we can do and I think it's kind of this interesting paradigm, because, yeah, I mean, you can always critique your own work. It's like, Well, okay, would could the home have been to a higher level of whatever, whatever? Sure, would it cost, you know, however, much more money to do it at the end of the day? If you are missing a key component, then the other people have to, you know, double their workload, right? Like you did some huge lifting on the design side, I did a bunch. We had to figure out a ton of stuff. And you know, it's already hard enough building a home. I give her credit. Do you know Linda Engler at all? Of course, she had this greatest line. It's one of my new favorite line. She said she wants the whole team to be aligned. She said, I want the designer, the builder, the client and the architect on one team, and the project is the opponent. Like, basically, the project is always going to fight you, so let's not fight each other, right? Let's be unified, so that when the project says, Ah, I'm rearing my head. I want to fight. We as a team can say we've got this. Yeah, wow. Anyway, I love that. I love that quote of, like, how to align as a team.
Mary Wozniak 31:40
Yeah, it's good, and we were aligned, yeah, well, you and I were
Mark D. Williams 31:48
the rest. You'll have to pay a subscription fee for the rest of that story. Oh boy, yeah, so to present day. So, yeah, you one of the things that I was going to bring up, because I don't know that much about, at what point did you because you have the, you and your husband have the French fry stands down the Tell me about that, like, when did that come about? Because so
Mary Wozniak 32:08
my husband has been in the French fry business for 52 years, really? Yeah, he was in college. I think when he started it, it's kind of a long little story about they lived out in Washington, DC, and had seen there's a french fry stand on the Maryland shore, and thought they'd bring it back to Minnesota and try it out. And they started with donuts first, and brought donuts to Maryland, but it didn't, didn't fly. And so anyway, they ended up doing french fries. And it's been a really great, it's just been a great thing for us. You know, I really had never been to the French fry stand before we are married. And
Mark D. Williams 32:48
so the first year was that something that he started, or his family started, he and his brother and his brother, okay, yeah. How old were they when they started? I think they were, like, 20. So, okay, so, yeah, yeah. And I actually don't, does he have another job too?
Mary Wozniak 33:00
Yes, he, yeah, yeah. He's a real estate developer. Okay, yeah. I
Mark D. Williams 33:04
was like, because I kind of like this French fry Baron. I love this story that it's like, I mean, it's just an amazing business. I'd be curious, what lessons have you learned from running that business that you've been able to apply to shadow falls?
Mary Wozniak 33:17
Well, I'm not so involved in that business because, you know, it started out with, you know, two brothers owning it together. So I just respected that relationship and over the years, so my husband has taken over the business for probably the last 1012, years, something like that. But what have I learned from it? Well, you know what? It's been an incredible gift for my children. I have to say, you know, you don't really get to go to work with your dad as a developer. They don't get to go to work with their dad and see what he's doing or building, but they do work them 12 days every year at the fair. And I think what they've learned is just, you know, again, I think he treats people really respectfully and equally. I feel like he runs a really clean, good business. He really takes care of the people around him. He really cares about the product and the consistency of the product. And I think it's something when you know, you go to the French fry stand every year at the fair, you're going to get the same, really good quality product, really big deal.
Mark D. Williams 34:10
It's funny because I don't actually, I mean, just from a health standpoint, I try to stay away from fried foods. But every year we go and we get a huge bucket, and my wife included, and we everyone has their little salt, right? I do the vinegar on it. And, yeah, you know, the kids all have it. They're hot. We're all, we always forget how hot they are right away. They're so good. Yeah,
Mary Wozniak 34:26
it's just, it's like a family business. It's really, you know, we have about 100 to 120 employees every year. So they're, they're there for 12 days, and, you know, it's just, it's, we have a big party at the end of the year for them, and there's a king and a queen, and it's just, it's a wonderful environment that he's created out there. I'm incredibly proud of him. I'm really proud of my boys that are our sons are now out there with him running it, and my grandchildren now that's pretty cool. Selling my granddaughter said, okay, my goal this year is to have my own window. It was like, woo. Good for you. So that's you just don't know these things you put your heart in, and you know, they don't always work. We've had a lot of things in our lives that have not worked, that we put a lot of love and energy in, but, but we've been very we've been very fortunate, grateful for the things that have worked and that we've worked hard. Someone said to me, you know, Mary, like showing up, good things happen. And I think it's just such a simple way, but showing up, just show up and good things happen. Yeah?
Mark D. Williams 35:29
I agree, yeah, you'd mentioned we're actually going to be doing a series. I'd like this idea, and it's not like I created it, but I think failure, well, failure is a part of success, yeah? And I mean, I think failure and success are not binary. They're not black and white. I think there's definitely different shades of what they are. And I think, you know, sometimes I think we, we give probably too much credit and adulation to success, and we probably demean failure more too often, because I think they're they both have their place, and both are learning you'd mentioned failure. What are some you have, any things that failed, or interactions that weren't really poorly, that you can think of that sort of informed, like, even now, like things that like, sort of almost like a bedrock of, like, hey, this didn't go well. Now, 20 years later, I'm thinking like, you know what? This is a part of this is why I do this. Because I learned it here,
Mary Wozniak 36:20
right? I have one why, if I really thought about it, I have one that just stands out so clearly. When I owned that paint store and I just started a business, there was a client who invested just like we've talked about, some people just invest in you, like she just absolutely believed in me, and so anyway, they had built a new house, and I had selected furnishings and furniture and so forth, and it was all coming just before Christmas. So three days before Christmas Eve, her sofa showed up at her house on a truck, and they had upholstered it inside out. It's the most like I still can't get my head around. Oh, that's a no one. One side was blue and pink, check, and the outside was gauze. And whoever upholstered it thought that the pink and blue should go on the inside. I was I just couldn't get my head around. That is pretty wild. So she calls me, and she goes, Hey, they're here, and they're delivering a kind of gauze colored sofa, and it's not mine. And I said, Put the sofa back on the truck and tell them to come to me. So she did, and they came back. And I said, You guys, this is inside out. The fabric is the other side. So this upholstery company, I said, I need it before Christmas, we had two days away. They hand stitched on, took off every stitch and turned it over, and hand stitched it and put it back. It lasted for 25 years, and she came. They turned around in two days, and they delivered it with a plant from me, with the back on the truck. And she looked at me, and she was like, I it was so profusely, like so embarrassed, you know, that it had happened. And she looked at me and she said, Mary, it is not a nuclear war. It is a sofa. It's let go of it. And it was such a good moment for me, because it was overwhelming to me at that moment that I was going to make a mistake like that, and obviously it was out of my control, but it was also it paved the way for me to realize, to put it in perspective, this is furniture. This is not, you know, I mean, I care about it. I can do what I can about it, and I do everything I can about it, but then I need to let go, and I've learned that I really am good at it.
Mark D. Williams 38:50
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Mary Wozniak 39:39
If there's a problem, I can go to plan B, I can go to Z really quickly. I can. I'm very, very nimble in that way. And I'm a really, I know I'm a really good problem solver. So, you know, like, how I ended up in this business, you know, it's like, it's where my skills are. They aren't everywhere, believe me. And I know where they are. I know where the gaps are. And then I hire. People to support me in those ways, like accounting, bookkeeping, I have an assistant who's wonderful. Yeah, I'm so grateful for all those people because they, you know, they let me do what I get to do
Mark D. Williams 40:09
best. Well, I think that's I mean, and, you know, identifying your ideal client, but it's also like identifying the things that a you want to do and b You're good at, yeah, you know, I think sometimes we think we have to be good at things were just not good at Yeah, but they like, rob our creativity, or they rob our energy. Yeah, there are certain things for me that they just absolutely cripple, sometimes
Mary Wozniak 40:29
drag you down. Yeah, it's like they're heavy, they're weighty. And yeah, so yeah, I've moved on from that, and I feel like so much I learned so much in that. And then, you know, the cool part that client is still, like, she's my oldest client. And she'll go, don't say that, because I'll say, Hey, this is my oldest client. And just don't say that. I'm not your
Mark D. Williams 40:48
oldest. You should be like, You guys ever reference the couch that was inside out we laughed about because that is amazing. I mean, to your point, like, how does that ever even happen? Like, just can't get my head around it. Like, I get like, April 1, right? Like, totally makes sense, if it happened on April 1. But April 1, but like, two days before Christmas
Mary Wozniak 41:05
and that they turned it around. Like they really, you know, that's the thing, I think, that I've really forged and really worked on relationships with my vendors. Like, I vet everybody. Nobody goes into a client to buy his house unless they've been in my house or in my office or somewhere where I have vetted them, and I know that they're safe, they're good, they they care about what they do. They have my values, they understand my quality and what I'm expecting. So I mean, it's like, that is a that to me, like that day when that guy, he was like, I'll have it. I'll have it in two days. I'm like, Okay. And it was like, he pulled up in a truck, I jumped on with a plant, and we went out and delivered
Mark D. Williams 41:41
it together. That's funny. Actually, I was going to ask you that because I sort of agree with you. I tend to, well, let me ask you this question, yeah, sometimes people aren't the right tool for the right job. So you have these dependable vendors that you use. Sometimes they sell their business, sometimes they go out of business. Sometimes you need a new partner. What is your vetting process? You mentioned like they might work on your personal home in a smaller capacity, or they you start them as a smaller job. Where I'm coming at this is, I get a lot of requests from a lot of trade partners that want to be on a quote or bid list, and we need a couple, but I don't need 10, because, honestly, it's a disservice to all of them. You know, I don't want to waste people's time, and I'm fine with getting a bit at the end of the day, a bit is a bid, like, I need a relationship, like, I need to know also on the clientele homes that were the strata that we're working on. It's like, I can't, in fact, usually the low number I have to throw away, because it's like, no, I know that this number is off. It's like, you throw away the high, you throw away the low, and you've got a couple in the middle, and you're like, Okay, now it's relationships. And how do I know it's, of course, easier to go into battle with someone that you've worked with before, of course, but their companies evolve too. I mean, there's people, you know, we had plenty of issues. I mean, you know, painting companies and whatever. I mean, it's always painting for painters and drywall. Man, can you fill the house without drywall and painting? Yeah, sure. Would be nice. Anyway, how have you vetted? You said you like, you go vet them. But what is the vetting process?
Mary Wozniak 43:04
Well, initially, in my vetting was through the paint store, right? Because they the men behind the counter, you know, mixing up those paints every day by hand. It was not by machine. Then it was like a little dip of this and a little dip of that. And I learned a ton from those men. They were, I think they saw that young girl coming in and putting in a desk, and were like, Oh, she's not gonna last long. And I thought, I'll show you. I'll be around, you know? And they, I mean, we, we really grew to have a lot of respect for each other. And I learned a ton from those two guys at that paint store, right? So that was my initial vetting wallpaper and paint from them. And really, you know, built a really nice, you know, group of workmen, people that could help me. And then once I moved down to IMS, I think we share with each other, like, you know, the designers down there. Like, I have a lot of people come and say, Hey, Mary, who are you using for this? Or, hey, Mary. And I think because I really am really careful, and they know that, and so you know, and I'm more than willing to share that, you know, more power to us, all right?
Mark D. Williams 44:09
I think a big part of that is ask, yeah, I think today, of course, with internet and just you can research whatever find most, and you can call me. You can go, Mark Williams. Mark Williams, could hook you up with Mary Wozniak. But you know, I think you I love it when people ask, you know, I had a situation the other day where I needed something solved, and I called this builder. I'm not super friend, big friends with them, but I knew they worked with this person. I'm like, Hey, this is Mark. I'm just curious. And they gave me, like, they kept talking and talking, and they gave you way more than you would think. And I think people just don't ask for help enough. Yeah, you know, I think that's something,
Mary Wozniak 44:44
yeah, I'm more than willing to share any ideas or anything like that. That's kind of what I've loved about being at IMS, is it's really just incredible community of women and men who love and have passion like I do, and to be surrounded by that every day and walk in that beautiful. Building, and have my office with my other associates is just, you know, it's
Mark D. Williams 45:04
this pretty special building for those that aren't from Minnesota. So you describe it, how would you describe, I mean, International Market Square
Mary Wozniak 45:10
was originally the munsingwear building, where it was a factory, right? And and then I'm trying to think of what year was renovated. It was, you know, probably 40 years ago it was renovated. And at that time it was so, wow, that's going to be a design center. And everyone's
Mark D. Williams 45:24
very pretty forward thinking. It was who created that concept? No, I really so would have been the
Mary Wozniak 45:30
small design center downtown Minneapolis that we would go to called Harmon court, like, way back in the 80s, early 80s. I'm so dating myself here, but and then we would have to just go from different different building to building and walk around. Well, you know, once we just all could be in one building, it's incredible to have us all in one building.
Mark D. Williams 45:50
So again, for you've got designers, you've got architects, you've got
Mary Wozniak 45:54
lighting, I mean, lighting, flooring, carpeting, window treatments, cleaning, people, every kind of resource, really, that we need and design. There are people, obviously, who maybe are not in our building that we use as well, but the building itself is really just a little treasure trove.
Mark D. Williams 46:10
Agreed, yeah. Why do you think there are a handful of builders in there? Why haven't more builders historically officed out of
Mary Wozniak 46:17
there? I think the LE, it's expensive. Yeah. I really, when it comes down to it, I think, yeah, how smart to be in a building where all the designers and architects are right, right? That's so I think it's just a matter of the lease, in the lease and the expense of being in downtown Minneapolis. And, you know, we have our own parking. It's really, really great parking. You can come in and out of downtown Minneapolis really easily. There the location is fabulous. We have a beautiful restaurant. You know, domino restaurant is in the middle of our building. The building is stunning. There's just, really, we just got a salon. I walked down the hall the other day. I'm
Speaker 1 46:50
like, is that a salon? I saw that on the main floor? Yeah. So
Mary Wozniak 46:54
you just never know, yoga studios. There's a massage girl down the hall. We haven't we have a dermatologist on two second floor.
Mark D. Williams 47:01
That's funny. I mean, I guess I could see it from a building standpoint, yeah, not all builders, but a lot of builders, space for materials and job signs and, you know, construction related items would be pretty hard in a building like that,
Mary Wozniak 47:14
yeah, unless you're on the first floor, right? Yeah, and a lot of space, right, right
Mark D. Williams 47:18
now, I guess you helped illustrate why? I mean, it's a good marketing move right debt to be down there, from all the relationship standpoint I enjoy, don't you know, I go down there now more probably half as a curious builder, and now half for for my normal job. Are you looking for resources or, yeah, well, a lot of it is, there's a couple architects that it seems like, you know, we've gotten a fair amount of work with that. They're located in this in the in IMS. So, you know, we're going there with our clients. So, you know, it's also very client forward. So why wouldn't you want to? It kind of gives them a little bit of a show, right? You walk in, you're like, Wow, this an impressive building. So there is a part of the art of show and the sales that I like in terms of bringing clients for the first time, I feel like that particular architect has a bit of an advantage, you know, more subtle, probably it's not, probably overt, because I'm like, wow, this is really nice, you know. So it's a beautiful community, yeah?
Mary Wozniak 48:09
So, yeah, it can be overwhelming, I know, sometimes for my clients. So, you know, I try to kind of preset the day, if I'm taking them to places to look at fabrics or to look at lighting, or usually, really an hour, hour and a half is about it. And they'll say, oh, kind of done, Mary. Let's do it another day or and we'll do it in sessions. Yeah, you know, I think you've been with me before. When we've done that, it works really well. You're like, let's look at flooring today. Let's look at lighting next week.
Mark D. Williams 48:33
When clients are so different, right? Because some would like to come in and kind of do their own hunting and gathering by themselves, and some of them are by appointment only. So it's like it is sort of interesting, right? I find that the best builds in the best relationships are the ones where they empower the people they've hired, shockingly, to do their job, you know. And you know, we are in the service industry. I think we sometimes forget that. And I, you know, I think our industry in general could do a much better job at hospitality, mainly because none of us are trained that way. You know, I think of hotels and restaurants, and the art of the service is part of the meal. I mean, you think of your favorite restaurants part of what you like, of course, the food, but it's the ambiance, it's the service. I mean,
Mary Wozniak 49:17
you know, I just did something. This is a fun just a thought, you just brought up. But I have a young couple I'm working with right now. They're in their early 30s, and they can't meet with me until 530 right because they both work. And I was at a grocery store picking up something for my family, and I thought, God, those guys are going to be starving. So I got cheese and crackers, and then there the liquor store was next door. And I walked over there, and I thought, hey, what? What's like, a really good, you know, mixture thing here. And so he gave me a couple ideas, and I brought so I brought him in a bag, and I walked in, I said, you guys, I know you're probably starving. We have a lot to go over tonight, but hey, here you go. And they were like, woo hoo. Yeah, it was. Like they poured drinks. We all sat and had cheese and crackers. And even when I left, he looked to me. He goes, Hey, where did you get that stuff again? Yeah, was it certix Or where did you go? No, I was at Kowalski. Oh, yeah, yeah. And they were really, some kind of a really kind of crafted mixed drink. I just, you know, bought a couple of them and thought,
Mark D. Williams 50:19
let's, let's, but that's how you cared, like you, that's thoughtfulness. Yeah, I was just
Mary Wozniak 50:23
thinking, God, they're going to be so tired sitting there at 530 looking at fabric and rugs. Oh,
Mark D. Williams 50:28
you know, how often do your clients meet, sort of after hours, not
Mary Wozniak 50:33
that often, to be honest with you, you know, because I'm at an age where people are retired, and a lot of times now we're doing second homes, or they're, down scaling, and we're, you know, I'm doing things all over the country, yeah, this is a young couple that, you know, are working full time and renovating a really beautiful home in St Paul. And so, yeah, I thought, oh my gosh, they're gonna be so tired, yeah? So, you know what might help this? Well, you know, in my family, like food and drink, right? Yeah, it's gonna help a lot. So, and it did it, you know, the night went well, and it was fun, and I'm for sure we'll do it
Mark D. Williams 51:04
again. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, nobody wants a hangry builder, designer or client, right? Exactly. I mean, even like, your job site walks, right? I mean, the coldest ones are, you know, I don't know why. It always seems like there's an electrical walkthrough in January. Oh, Mark You and I
Mary Wozniak 51:19
did. I mean, it was 40 below. We were in the basement of a house, and we had heaters.
Mark D. Williams 51:25
Yeah, that was, yeah. So we had the temporary heaters. We go down there to warm up our toes,
Mary Wozniak 51:29
looking at Marvel. It's also cold, yeah? Well,
Mark D. Williams 51:33
it's hard. I mean, you've got to meet clients, kind of where they're at, right? I mean, that particular had a young family, a lot of responsibilities, yeah, I don't as I recall, did they ever come down or you we always brought stuff to them. As I recall,
Mary Wozniak 51:44
we always brought things to them. I think I had them at IMS one, one time for the initial meeting. Probably no, it was for appliances. Okay, yeah, yeah. But other than that, I brought everything to them. I've had,
Mark D. Williams 51:55
you know, come to think of it, you know, we're recording this in our office, and someone was just in here recently, and gave me some design tips on the Fung Shui. I had some dead flowers. And anyway, Billy was like, hey, you know, if you have a dead flower, that's bad. It's like, I don't know anything about it. Like, those flowers been there for four years. There were, like, some, like, stick Fern things. Anyway, we're going with this is like, I have a lot of clients that have actually never been to my office, or they come to my office once, right? I think sometimes, as builders, I mean, maybe it's a vanity thing or ego thing, like, I would like to have a nicer office, or a bigger office, or a more swanky office, or whatever you're in your mind is like, what that is? But the truth of it is, you don't know. And like a lot of my remodel clients specifically, like, we're meeting at their home, because if we're going to meet with the architect and it in the designer makes sense. They're in their space. Like, why wouldn't we be in the space? It's a way easier to talk about it. But I'm just kind of amazed at how infrequently people are actually at our office. I mean, do you find that true for yourself, or do you find that you do have clients come to your office
Mary Wozniak 52:57
quite a bit. They love to come down to IMS. That's what I found. I'll say, you know, here are some fabrics, but you know, you're really more than welcome to come down someday and they go, Oh, I'd love to do that. And so I will, you know, again, kind of pre select areas that I think that they would really enjoy. And then I bring them to those areas, and then we, you know, we'll go through, I usually do take them to my office, and maybe I'll have a cup of coffee or something like that, and go over the selections. But usually once or twice is enough, unless they're kind of diggers. There are people that like, hey, I want to get my hands on it. I want to feel it. And I'm like, that myself. So I'm like, have at it, yeah? Like, I'll dig any day with you. You know? I mean, I get lost in those fabric rooms. Yeah? Absolutely. It's like, Mary, it's five o'clock. We'd like to go home, yeah?
Mark D. Williams 53:38
Like, there's no snacks in the fabric drawer. I know, I know
Mary Wozniak 53:43
so, but I love the process. And I think, more than anything, that's, I think they'll say, what's your superpower? You know, to me, it's like, I love the job, I love what I do, and I love the process, and I trust it. So, you know, it just, I think that's, you know, when you walk into a room and you have that kind of feeling about something, it just resonates to all of us. I just, I don't get down about it. When things go wrong, I just find the next solution. And usually my clients will move with me. Occasionally they won't, they'll go, no, that really, I'm disappointed by that, you know, okay? And I'm always kind of like, oh, okay, because I would just go to plan B. It was like, there. And what I found is that when I find that there is something, you know, we talked about this, when you find like you have a wall and you or you can't quite get around it, it's like, there's a reason for that wall, I can find something else, and usually it's a better solution. I mean, I that's trusting the process.
Mark D. Williams 54:38
I think you are really good at knowing yourself. And you know, I've spoken a lot, not that I have the answer, but I just think all of us need to spend more time thinking about our ideal client. And I'm blanking you had a story recently that you shared where you were on an interview, and I think there was just, there wasn't, it wasn't going to work between you. In one of the other partners, right? And you, I think your com correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was the homeowner, you knew them, and they brought you in, and you said, You know what? I think you're best served if I'm not on this project that takes amazing self awareness. But it set everybody up for success. Even if it wasn't a financial success, I would even argue that it is a financial success, because the amount of time that it would have taken, and what that I mean, not everything is measured in dollar amount, right? And actually, you probably could. You would also say, like, look at how much time that this took. Or, guess what, they'll respect you for other work, because you really stood by your values. I know I would be like, I heard that story be like, even though, and I would maybe tell my friends about it well, and you didn't make it for that reason, but you did it because it was
Mary Wozniak 55:48
the right thing to do. It really was. It was really hard for me because I really liked the client, and it was a really, really beautiful project. I mean, it was a really wonderful project in all ways, quality people, but for many reasons, there were things that were apparent to me that I couldn't work with. And so I just explained it to my client and just said, you know, I think you're better off maybe finding another designer. And she just, she's like, really, Ian sort of explained it a little bit more, just because I wanted them to really feel comfortable of why I was doing it. And then eventually she did call me back and just said, I'm so sorry. I really should have done a little bit more looking at what the team was like and, and she said, I'm sorry it didn't work. And I am too, you know, but we I still see her, and, you know, I'm so happy their project is going forward, and it's beautiful. And, but for me, it wasn't right, yeah, and I You're right. I do know that about myself. When I get that feeling it was like, I need to listen to myself. And I do, yeah, because I don't want to, like, you said, waste somebody's time.
Mark D. Williams 56:52
Yeah, when you look at the design, build or architect community now, yeah, and looking back at your 40 years. What do you see going forward? What are some observations you have about the current crop of interior designers and our field? I mean, just contrast with your own career, and what do you see as the future of the industry?
Mary Wozniak 57:13
Well, I think there's a great future in our industry, and all these incredibly creative women I see around me, I'm inspired by them, and just cheer them on. And I'm, I feel like I'm always there to mentor them, like I I mentor a lot of young women, if they're in school or out of school, or they come in for an interview, or they they're looking for an assistant job, I always put everything down and just sit down and talk to them, because it's like, I know what it's like to be that, and it's nice to have somebody care. And I don't know if my little nuggets make a difference or not, but, you know, I would like to share them. As far as the industry goes, I think we have an amazing industry. I think our partners are all fabulous, so many different things. We're worldwide now collective. I mean, my goodness, before it was like I was flying to New York or Chicago for fabrics. I mean, I was just in Paris at the Paris deco and met all the world designers in January, Pierre Frey and Tricia guild, all these different people. Went with a group of women from the Twin Cities. And we were sponsored by Holly hunt and by HMS on and all these wonderful vendors we have. We're moving forward as far as, like, the internet and all that social media goes, I don't think I still really understand it the way that they will, because I didn't grow up with it. And so as far as I'm concerned, like, I will continue to lean into it, I will and to learn about it. But for me, like I told that young man or that man, it's working for me, yeah. And I think I'm comfortable there, yeah. So
Mark D. Williams 58:44
I love that, yeah. Well, thanks for coming in today. It was I love, I love talking with you, and obviously, get to see you more than than many of the guests and just in general. But yeah, appreciate you sharing some of your story and and for the audience, for tuning into another amazing story and another entrepreneur. Well, I
Mary Wozniak 58:58
think what I told you in your thank you. Note is that I really appreciate what you're doing for our industry, for the design industry, for architects, designers, builders, just, I think this is an incredible platform, and just so grateful. Well,
Mark D. Williams 59:13
I appreciate it. No, I love people, and that only works when there's, like, I say it takes two to tango. So you need that. We need some dancing partners. And it's we have a great community that shows up for each other, and it's really just providing a way for people to learn from each other. I mean, that's the point of the podcast. That's the point of the collective so we have so much collective knowledge to share. And you know, a lot of us don't learn. Speaking of myself, don't learn great. I mean, not that I wasn't a good student, but I don't I learn by hearing stories. I learn from you sharing your experiences, failures and success. And I think there's a lot of us out there like that that want to hear a story, and I'm grateful that people feel called to share and feel comfortable doing so, and so as long as that's the case, yeah, we'll be doing this. Yeah.
Mary Wozniak 59:56
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Likewise, Ian.
Mark D. Williams 1:00:01
All right, here is a little easter egg if you're still listening to this episode. Mary Wozniak just left the office, and we were leaving, and she said, How'd the interview do? And so we were just commenting on, you know, what a great interview it was, and how we really just always enjoy being around each other. And if you missed it, we were talking about this couch that showed up to Mary's client's house two days before Christmas, and it was inside out. The blue and pink fabric was on the inside, and the you know, fabric cushion was on the outside. And so she told me the story in the stairwell. I'm like, I've gotta go re record that and put that at ease. And easter egg. So the story behind that is, when she called the manufacturer, they said, she said, How could that happen? Like, how could anybody think the foam goes to the outside. And he said, Mary, these are inmates putting this together. And I just, she's like, I didn't want to say that. I'm like, that's actually pretty funny. I was like, that has to be that story has to be told. So it was equally impressive is, if you recall, he got that turned around in two days. So they must have brought that back to the prison workshop, or wherever it was, and they pulled out every single stitch by hand and reholster the whole couch, act together in two days and delivered it, and that couch lasted for 25 years. So kudos to inmates and Cell Block C for putting it back together the right way the second time. Thanks for tuning the curious, bitter podcast. We might have to do more easter eggs. It's kind of fun. We've had the podcast now for two and a half, almost three years now, and we have a consulting page, one to one consulting. You can book my time for one hour. Perhaps you've heard a guest where you like one of the topics. Maybe you want an introduction to some of the guests that I've had on. Perhaps you want to talk about branding or marketing, or anything that we've covered on the podcast over the last two and a half years. You can book a time at curious builder podcast.com thanks for tuning in to curious builder podcast. If you liked this episode, do us a favor. Share it with three other business owners. The best way that we can spread what we're doing is by word of mouth, and with your help, we can continue to help other curious builders expand their business. Please share it with your friends. Like and review online, and thanks again for tuning in.
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