Episode 5 - Brad Leavitt, AFT Construction
Episode #5 | Brad Lewitt | Building Teams and AFT Construction
On episode 5 with Brad Leavitt, we discuss building a team and targeting your ideal client, while also watching out for red flags. Brad shares his insights on starting his own podcast as well as his recent creation of the Contractor Coalition Summit. The CCS is a unique one of a kind education 3-day deep dive into building knowledge from a business point of view, where everything is shared with the attendees. The community of support that has ensued from these summits is next level. Enjoy, episode 5 is a doozy!
Listen to the full episode:
About Brad Leavitt
Brad Leavitt is President and Founder of “A Finer Touch Construction” - a Scottsdale based luxury residential and commercial builder. AFT Construction, as known throughout the industry, is an award-winning construction firm and has been nationally published in magazines such as: Fine Home Building, Luxe Interiors and Design, and Professional Builder. Brad was awarded as an “Icon” in the AZ building industry by Sources for Design in October, 2019. He was also recognized as a 2022 Phoenix Titan 100. The Titan 100 program recognizes Phoenix’s Top 100 CEO’s & C-level executives. They are the area’s most accomplished business leaders in their industry using criteria that includes demonstrating exceptional leadership, vision, and passion. Collectively, the Phoenix 2022 Titans have a combined total of annual revenue of $32B and employ more than 85,000 individuals.
Brad Leavitt is an energetic public speaker and ambassador for many national brands including Kohler, Louisiana Pacific, Rinnai. Pella, Subzero-Wolf, Buildertrend, Cambria, and Elkay. Brad completed a Bachelor of Science in Construction Management from BYU in 2005 and worked on notable projects around Phoenix, including the Omni Montelucia in Paradise Valley.
His Podcast, “The AFT Construction Podcast”, is focused on bringing value to its listeners, no matter their industry. The topics are focused on marketing, social media, entrepreneurship, organization, building science and construction. AFT has continued to exceed industry standards and create strong client relationships based on integrity, reliability and quality. Brad is married to Ashley Leavitt. Together, they have 6 children, 5 girls and 1 boy. Brad is active with all 6 of his children, serves in his local community, and loves all sports
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00:00
On today's podcast, we got to listen to Brad love it from EFT construction, he joined us via zoom, you can see that on our YouTube channel. And we covered just some amazing stuff. Just a brief intro of his origin. He's very well documented on podcasts so you can find them elsewhere. But it was really interesting kind of deep dive on how his business grew from just a few people up to 18. Now, we also went in a little bit deeper on his journey of starting a podcast. And what was really fun for me as he's one of the main reasons why I started my podcast. So to hear him kind of walk through his evolution of you know, creating his podcast with the value that it's brought was just some of the few things that are some of the things that we talked about on this podcast. And then we talked about the summit's coalition and how we first met and basically this education platform that he's expanding across the United States, which is just incredible. So without further ado, we've got Brad love it on the curious builder podcast. Welcome to the curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host and today we are being joined by someone very special. He is the originator the Creator, behind the curious builder in the sense that he inspired what we're about to discuss and talk about. And so I thought it was very fitting to give him a boxing like intro so here we go. Hailing from Phoenix, Arizona via BYU educated brain this six foot three turn five pound Jordan wearing toe wiggling Sultan of social, the liker of LinkedIn, the Papa of podcast. Welcome, Brad. Love it.
01:27
That's amazing, Mark. I'm pretty impressed.
01:29
So, Brad, thanks for thanks for coming on the show.
01:33
I'm excited to be on. Thanks for having me, Mark.
01:35
Yeah, so obviously, we're in Minneapolis, and our focus is pretty micro to Minneapolis, and you've got a pretty broad national reach. And so I'm guessing there's a lot of our new time show listeners here on the podcast that probably don't know a whole lot about you. So why don't you give us a quick five minute intro of who you are, what you do, and some of the businesses that you operate? And we'll kind of take it from there.
01:58
Yeah, so I guess in general, I mean, most people that at least know social media know that we're accustomed builder, you know, we specialize in residential luxury construction. Over the years, we've done a lot of commercial not as much as of late. So mostly high end, luxury. As you mentioned, I grew up in California, as electrician, you know, born and raised, that's kind of my grandfather's electrical company retired from the Navy. And so I grew up in the trades and then decide to go do construction management in college, have a BYU in the mood of Phoenix in 2005. And that's really what set the tone for my career path. You know, it's, I had a few young mentors to talk about Chase experienced money and was fortunate to work at some pretty signature projects here in Phoenix. And shortly thereafter, you know, after a good seven years of working out of college, I ended up starting my company at and we also have some other entities as you kind of alluded to, you know, from real estate to subcontract to companies, you know, structural steel primarily, and a lot with social media and giving back to the industry. And, you know, I'm a father of six. My wife and I, we have five daughters and a son, and my oldest is 18 in college and youngest is in kindergarten, so it's
03:07
Oh, they are kindergarteners, a heartbreaker, you posted a picture of her the other day, and I've got three little kids, as you know, and oh, man, those little girls, they just they melt the dads hearts, man. Oh, they do.
03:16
They're amazing. And it's funny, because they kind of take a turn when they're teenagers, you know, they begin to hate dad, but then they come back around. So
03:23
I haven't gotten there yet. I'm not looking forward to that. But right now, I'm just, yeah, the little girls, they just they kill you even, you know, you see other dads and you have a lot of respect for, you know, obviously, all business owners that have families doesn't always have to be a little girl. But just dads are something special. And I heard I think was on your podcast today that one of your designers was at the LA or the Las Vegas couple. That design that they based on one of their exclusions is that they don't like to have guests that aren't that both I think the husband and wife work. And the idea was that they wanted to be trusted to, you know, respect what they did. And you know, if you're busy pursuing your career, you're more likely to let competent people kind of take over. I thought that was I'd never heard that before.
04:05
Yeah, it's interesting. And it really goes back to understand your ideal client, I think this is something that many of us kind of lose that angle is that when you're when you're building a business, no matter what that is, you have to understand, you know, the cost to acquire customers, right? The cost to retain customers. And ideally, you should be marketing to that ideal client. Because if you understand what that ideal client is, through, you know, Project history analysis and your database, that ideally, if you're marketing to them, and then when you're vetting clients accordingly, you know, you should be lining up goal wise with those clients. So then that way, you know, it's a homerun for both parties.
04:40
I really appreciate working and maybe it's because you can relate to them, you know, obviously if they have a family, and you know, just you know, being very family centric not only in our personal life, but you know, really the business a small business is like a family. And you know, here in Minnesota for what we do, you know, we don't build quite as many homes we do maybe two to three homes a year and a half. Full of remodels. And so for us, it's it's a very intimate relationship, not only with the client, but also with our team and our trade partners, we use pretty much the same people on every project for the last two decades. And so, you know, everyone knows each other. And, you know, like any family, there's, you know, quote, fights and disagreements, but the camaraderie and the depth of respect and relationship is really special. It's something that we probably don't celebrate enough in our business, and maybe all businesses are that way. But I feel like construction is pretty strongly unique that way, be curious to your take on that. If you think it's up all businesses, are that close? Or do you think that's a unique characteristic to building?
05:37
I definitely think it's unique characteristic to build, I mean, keep in mind that we're building homes, right. So typically, you know, there's families behind that, to some extent, I mean, it could be people with no kids, they could have kids, I mean, everyone's at a different stage, but it's still their home, it's still where they're going to be. And so it's more personal. And I found to, you know, having kids that there is definitely a connection, and, you know, I found to as I looked through the ideal client, you know, especially for you and I mark, we're entrepreneurs, and so having clients, that are entrepreneurs that have built their business and understand what it takes, you know, there's an appreciation, you know, our business is really tough, it's really challenging and construction. So I love to have customers that understand just the grit that goes behind running, you know, a company and being an entrepreneur, because there's a lot more respect, you know, for that, and especially when you do have, when you have a family behind the scenes, you know, my clients know that I feel like they're a little bit more sensitive. Not all of them, but most of them as far as you know, personal time, as well as you know, just how they communicate with me and, and understand the end goal, right that I'm, I'm here for the long run, I got a long ways to go. And so it gives them the security they're looking for as well, when they're selecting their builder.
06:41
Yeah, I often use it like, hey, my kids are 664. And two, I'm not going anywhere for at least 20 years. So you know, when they ask about warranty, I'm like, I'll be here for a couple of decades. Plus, you enjoy what you do. You know, you mentioned you know, picking your ideal client, I think this came up and we'll talk a little bit more for those that aren't familiar with, you know, how we met, we'll talk about that in a minute. But defining your client, I'll maybe I'll start with a red flag, you know, I'd like to hear one, maybe we'll each share one red flag that we sometimes gets, you know, our attention when we're interviewing with people, and then maybe something we're really looking for. And something that I just observed recently in this, I want to say a red flag, it tends to be the rule. There's always exceptions, as we know, to the rule, and what I'm about to say. But I've noticed when building for I've built for all couples, all married couples, I think I built for one bachelor, so he would obviously be outside of this deal. But I find when the when the man is too involved in design, that it's very problematic for the built in, I'd say that sort of, you know, kind of interestingly, because I've had a few gentlemen that they didn't listen to their wife, and it was very uncomfortable. Because as we, you know, one of my designers once told me happy wife happy life. And he was telling that to me as I was building my own home. And I often tell my clients, like don't feel bad. You know, I don't get opinion to my own remodels as well. And I've told my wife one time, like, you know, people pay me for my opinion. And I think her line back to me was, well, I'm not paying you. And I often tell that to the mister clients that we're talking about. And the ones that have been the most successful are the ones that, you know, they're really supporting of their wife. It's not that they're not involved. It's not that they don't have their opinion, but they really are deferring to, you know, to their wife. And frankly, it seems like women just have a better taste than men anyway, at baseline. So yeah. Have you found that that that, that that's a red flag? Or have you experienced that in your career or not? Really?
08:26
Yeah, I would definitely agree with that. Right. You know, especially when, and I think what it goes down to is the corbetta comment you mentioned in that, you know, as you're vetting the client, Mark, as you said, when the husband's like interrupting, or, you know, how they communicate with their spouse. I had an experience with an attorney. They were going through pre construction, and I mean, he would yell at his wife right in the meeting. Yeah, lettering. Yeah. And he were on the phone call. And he just got voiceless with his wife on this, like, call we had with the architect, and right away, I'm like, timeout, I'm out. Like, if you're going to speak to your wife that way, especially in front of us, like we're out. And, you know, but what's interesting is when you speak about our red flags, I mean, there's there's a lot, right, but I think one that really sticks out, especially at the level of complexity you and I are building is when a client comes in, and like Brad, you know, I don't need an interior designer, I know what I want. I know my style right away is like timeout. So either one of two things happen. Either they hire a designer, and they work with us or they don't, and they don't work with us. And the reason being is because what it comes down to is yes, you know, I do have appreciation for our interior designers and everything they do but but really what it comes down to is it when the client thinks they know what they want, that's great, but how do I interpret what's in your mind into construction? And that's the one gap that no client I've met with yet and I shouldn't disparage all clients because maybe they have a background in this but you know, they're not doing the cat. They're not, you know, they may understand how to source and see images and have a taste for design and that's fine because they can you know, but doing all the schematic, you know all the detailing we need so that there's no confusion and almost expectation Jim, that's the gap. And I always tell clients look, you may know exactly what you want. And I'll find a designer that doesn't have an ego. But we still have to create a template to build from. And that'll just create a happy customer, where you're where you like me, by the end of the project,
10:12
only thing worse than self design is if someone says, I have a friend, that that's like, oh, boy, and they might be very accomplished, but and you know, then you will, that I'm actually working with somebody right now. And she happens to be a professional designer. And she's great. So luckily, that person's friend was in the industry. And, you know, we obviously hired her and it's been a great relationship. Going still focused here on AF T, I had a few questions for you, you know, I believe you're at what, 17 employees now?
10:39
Yeah. And we hired one more at the summit the last summer 18 employees? Yeah,
10:43
okay, walk me through, you know, we're a company of four or five. And we struggle a little bit with what a lot of companies struggle with, which is kind of like growth curve, you know, we probably do six to 8 million a year in revenue. And I've been told, like, you know, once you go to, let's say, 15, or 20 million, you know, if you're, if you have that much work kind of backlog, it's, you know, it's two to three times the staff and like, there's kind of that middle ground where you're not like fuel efficient in a car, if you will, like, You got to get up to speed. And So walk me through a little bit of like, kind of the growth of your company, like when you started, how many people did you first start with? And I guess, how did you? How did you hire? And like, how did that flow of people add? Like, did you know early on, because, you know, you'd been part of some bigger companies growing up, like seeing, like, larger staffs and like being like, Hey, I know, I'm gonna want 1015 People at some point, I've never heard your story on how you got to be the size of people you are?
11:37
Well, I think it takes time, right? Keep in mind, I've been in business 10 years now. And so it definitely was not at this, you know, this level of quality of talent. And people, you know, early on, you know, you start and you're pretty much wearing a ton of hat as a, you know, as a builder, as a company, Owner, entrepreneur, what's really important as you're building your business, is to really understand what's the end goal, right? And, you know, especially as you speak to a lot of business coaches and people that may successful building a business, right, you have to have the end goal in mind, essentially, you have to think about, well, what do I want to sell my company for? Is it going to be is there value behind the brain? Right? And, and maybe you're not, maybe you're just doing it for a fee business. So you have to really understand the structure. And then more importantly, it's like, okay, what do I value, right? If I value time, as a homeowner, if I want time, whether it be to travel, or whether it be to have time with my family or kids events, I'm not going to be able to be one of the roles of superintendent and accounting, and marketing. And so I have to build that. And what that means is, yeah, there's going to be more cost involved by hiring people. But again, it's worth the value. I know some people that that I'm friends with in Phoenix, and they're a one man band, for lack of better word, they're running, you know, three or four projects by themselves, they're doing all the hats, and they're making really good money, but they don't, you know, have any personal life. And that's fine. That's what they want. You know, that's the goal. And, and so I think part of is just understand what drives you, right. And for me, it's it's building in people. It's been a community, it's beyond team culture. And that's always been a thing. But to get to that, if that really is your goal, where you have maybe a little flexibility to have time. For these other ventures, there's a cost to it. And then you have to understand the outline is the systems and too many of us don't spend any time building systems and organization and, you know, having project descriptions and position descriptions where people really understand, you know, what their role is in the company.
13:24
When you talk about systems, I remember you had I can't remember the last name, I think it was name was Jace. Was that, right? Somewhere in the Pacific Northwest Chase, maybe? Yeah. And just like this idea of like, you know, creating systems, and you know, me essentially never having a boss never being part of a corporate structure. You know, I guess the things that make entrepreneurs successful is that they're unemployable. So they're forced to do something, but how did you navigate that? From the standpoint? I mean, did you have a system in place? And then you kind of filled it? I mean, is it more organic, like, Hey, you saw a need, and you sort of organically grew? Or, you know, for me, it was, I guess, if I was to do it, I would say, Hey, I'm gonna go get a sale or two. So I know, like, I've got the revenue coming in. And then I would build the team around that, let's say bigger, you know, bigger, you know, bigger event or bigger home or bigger project that you're working on? Or if you you know, are you going to borrow money and build the team? Before we have the project? It's kind of a curtain the curtain the horses, they say, are chicken and egg. How did you navigate that?
14:19
Well, I think it's really important to understand that if if you need someone today, it's too late, right? And so there has to be planning, there has to be sales that backup the revenue side that can control the cost. So there's a couple of things. So what I found is that yes, there you know, I may be working in pre construction on a project that's going to go and it's not like I just hire someone, because for this project, you don't want to be in that scenario. Ideally, you're planning your growth, you understand what your bottom line is your job costing, you know, and then again, what's going to be your total revenue. Can you borrow for that? Can you account for that? And so what I've done it success in the past, especially these past couple years, is that when I know the needs going to become in say six or eight months down the road and that we're positioning the growth of the car company, I'll hire that person early. So a lot of times, at least my last three hires, the employee came on, they could shadow so they could shadow other team members, they can learn the system, they can learn the operations, you know, for three, four or five months, you know, six, seven months, even I, my Director of Operations came in and shadow for almost eight months. And it was great because he was fully trained. So then we, when we're ready, we're good to go. But keep in mind, that was not always the case. When you speak about, you know, this, this company we have now Well, early on, I struggled like anyone else, I just bring them on, say, go figure it out, kick them off the pier, sink or swim. And my turnover was high, right? The retention was tough people, you know, were discouraged. It's a hard business, building a custom home, it's hard work with the clients and you know, our trade base and pricing, and there's so many metrics that we're dealing with. And so kick him off the pier just didn't work. And then I realized, Okay, a couple key people came in and said, bruh, we need to create some structure. And the more we structure we created, and the more we position ourselves with sales and revenue to bring on people and bring them on early. Well, then you kind of hit your stride.
16:02
I like me, just because I know a little bit from what you've discussed. Sounds like most of your most of your builds are on a hill, just for those listening. Brad's I was talking about hillside, which I think as a community, but we were giving him a hard time about it, because it made it sound like every single house he built was at an angle or something. But you know, your, your permits. I mean, a lot of your permits down in Arizona take like a year. Is that correct?
16:23
Yeah. I mean, they can, especially with the hillside and especially with FEMA, as you mentioned, I know we had a lot about that. But dealing with like flood zones and stuff. I mean, it's very common.
16:33
What I like about that is that gives you a huge on ramp to your point of bringing on this person to shadow like that job is, you know, in pre con, you've already you know, I assume is either you've either designed it, I mean for going in for permit, you must have already gone through architecture and design and in some of that early pre con stuff. So now you're kind of onboarding you can there's, there's gotta be plenty of downtime on a bigger project like that where you could do, I assume a couple, you know, if you're taking a year, I mean, someone's not working on that project every single day for a year, or at least not the entire day, I would assume, correct me if I'm wrong. And so it gives us it gives someone ample time to kind of get in the swing of things. So when that projects underway, they're not only caught up to speed, but you know, they're already kind of intuitive with what everyone else is doing in the program.
17:13
That's exactly right. I mean, that's the whole goal is it. And then instead of saying, okay, Mark, this job starting in two weeks breaking ground, here you go, here's all the plans and specs get familiar with it. Like, it's really difficult, especially as you get into more complex projects. So the more they can be involved early on, and be involved in contracting in scope, you know, so writing all the scope and contracts, and then working through pool plans, scheduling, right, working through the schedule, now you can create this really organic process for the client through pre construction. And that way, when you break ground, you hit the ground running, and you're not waiting on decisions, you're not delaying, it doesn't mean the clients don't change the project. But at least you have a template there. This is really
17:49
interesting in your market, I think it's, you know, here, you know, permit is, you know, if you're not a variance variances can take three, four months, probably but, you know, a permit here is anywhere from three to six weeks is pretty fast. And he's pretty aggressive. And, you know, I mean, I've been building for 18 years. When I think now in retrospect, I mean, I have a lot of systems in place that I could do now. And I think this was mentioned by very competent people, like everyone on the outside looks like they just got it dialed in. But everyone the inside of their house is a bit of a hot mess. And it's kind of like, sometimes I can, you know, I'm a pretty optimistic person. But you know, it's really inspiring to be around people that just have incredible systems and incredible background, incredible stories. And it's like, you know, one of the reasons why I listen to so many podcasts now, because I started with yours is, you know, you're gonna get two to three ideas out of each one. But you're making sure that it doesn't discourage you, it's very encouraging to be like, Okay, there's never, it's never a better day than today to start implementing something that's going to change. And really, if you've been in business for more than a couple of years, you're doing something right. And, you know, don't be discouraged, you know, just make one change at a time. And I mean, it sounds simple, but I think that's where you got to start. Because otherwise, it's just daunting and overwhelming.
18:56
I'm glad you brought up that point. Because the reality is, I had an architect teach me this, he says so many times, you know, we focus on our failures, right? And it's pretty easy mistakes made maybe an unhappy client, maybe a project that didn't go as planned. But we have so many successes like mentally Why don't we focus on the successes because most people around us don't care about the failure like the you know, from especially from afar mark, you may have a client that's kind of dragging you emotionally through this process, and it's frustrating for you and your team, but you like I look at the brand you're building and your personality and the product you're putting out there and you know, the intent of this podcast series builder. And so you give a lot of energy that I'm like, man I want you know, there's things I'm learning from Mark, I want to be like Mark and I appreciate what you're doing for the industry. And so yes, so many cheerleaders they might not say that all the time. But so many of us do get stuck in this like mental trap of being an entrepreneur because it's really hard to be an entrepreneur. It's really hard run a business. It's really hard keeping spirits up of your entire team and clientele.
19:52
I mean, I think that and maybe now's a good time to talk about even how we met and talk a little bit about you know, the contractor coalition but, you know, having peers in your network. I mean, I've always been a very social person. But I think the last man couple years I've completely awakened to not only is that something I really enjoy, so it's much easier to do something you enjoy just the power of the network to be encouraged. I mean, I think I'm a big sports player, I know you're as well. But it's essentially this team approach, like you can be a competitor against another team. However, you can respect the camaraderie that you can have as kind of brothers in arms. And I feel like, I could be wrong in this. But I feel like the older generations, like my dad was a builder, and they didn't have the social media, I think we talked a lot about there's a lot of media out there, but negative social media aspects. And I think that's certainly something we all have to balance. But I think on the positive side is like you and I would never have been friends we never would have met in there's so many different avenues that you can support one another. And I think this this term, now that, you know, whether it's you or Morgan or Nick that coin, did I say it now a lot, but this, you know, collaboration over competition, and like the idea that we are simply you're going to build with somebody or buy a product, I don't care if your builder or not, whatever your industry is, at the end of the day, if you can get it down to that they want to work with you, because it's a relationship. And that's something that I would rather be involved with versus like price or a widget or something else. And I think that then therefore, if you're, you know, quote, competing against somebody, you're just different, every person is different. It's like, you know, little kids right now trying to explain to my daughter that she doesn't need a best friend, like that's too limiting, like you can have friends, you don't have a single one. I think that's a little bit like, you know, having peers in your business, like they can all be successful business owners, there's enough work to go around and we can celebrate other people's success. Why would we need to bring it down?
21:42
I love the show that that way, because the thing is like in our industry, it's tough. Right? It was you mentioned mark, it's a tough to be in design and a fee industry. And so having that support, and then the reality is Why do I have to make every mistake myself, like, you know, it's I'm building through this, why can I learn from my peers, I can learn from certain marks doing or maybe you just may have a better widget, for lack of better word, you may have a better process, you may have a better, you know, application of something I'm struggling with, and why not collaborate on that. And, you know, going back to how we met through the coalition Summit, it's interesting, because I've had a lot of builders attend from my market, right at both events. And I've never worried about, Hey, these are direct competitors, because reality is, as a building industry, the more sophisticated we can be as business owners, that's going to make us better, it's going to make the community better, it's going to make a better process for our clients and our trade partners. And, and why not? Right, I think there's just too much upside as opposed to the downside.
22:34
And for those listening that don't know what their contractor coalition is, it basically from I can give it from a, someone who's attended it. And actually one of my questions here to ask you about how it was born and a little bit of its, where do you see it going, but essentially, it's a group of, you know, 30 to 40, builders put on by, you know, essentially yourself, Nick Schiffer from NS builders, and Morgan Molitor from Minnesota from construction to style, and is basically a, you know, three day sit down, open book, you talk about every single thing is on the table. And you know, you don't need to sign an NDA or any of that stuff. It's just really what lessons learned. And I remember when I, you know, the entry fee to get in, I think it was $10,000 at the time that I signed up into Nashville, and I remember wanting to be a part of a builder 20, which I'm not a part of, and I'm gonna, you know, go down to the builder show here this year, and I want to sign up for one. But anyway, the idea was simply like, is it worth my investment? I called Morgan because she was at least in Minnesota, I didn't know you were at the time. And I called Morgan I said, Hey, you know, I want to go, but you know, I'm not someone who wants to just sit in a classroom, and just, you know, be fed stuff or like, you know, a pamphlet, I don't learn that way I need to interact, I need to ask questions. I'm a curious guy. And so and so. And she said, you will you will pay for your your ticket in the first half hour. And it was 10 minutes, and I paid for it. And I know, I've been tested. You know, I've given you guys many testimonials based on that, but it's true. And I went back a second time, because that information sunk in so much deeper. So anyone out there listening, you know, it's incredible, what you guys have done, and it's really inspiring. So anyway, from your point of view, I'd love to hear, you know, how it was born. And then also kind of, you know, it sounds like you're unrolling maybe four or five, you know, for next year what what your long term plans with this are because it's really incredible what you're doing?
24:20
Well, it's interesting, I mean, even the vendor side, right, the vendors who have attended have kind of the same, you know, feeling you have mark that they're like, it's great to be around, you know, something of this magnitude in the industry, right, especially on national level. And so, going back to what's interesting is, you know, I've been really big, I'm always big on relationships, I'm big on networking, I'm big on and again, it's just, I think there's a lot of value right in, whether you call it legacy, whether you call it communication, whether you call it friendship, it's just you're not doing alone. And so through that, you know, I've been pretty active on social media for last six, seven years, you know, been fortunate to be you know, because of the activity on social media. That's how I got into my builder 20 group. You know, I've been connected with them. vendors. And so I just see that in this industry, where COVID was a great example. You know, we're dealing with challenges, unprecedented, can't get material, you know, labor is tough. And through these relationships built with vendors that I'm getting product that I need in a timely manner. And so there's just a lot of these things that came together. So the bottom line is that people would follow me and say, Hey, Brad, can I come shadow you? And I'm kind of, it's not scatterbrain, because I'm not scattering, but I have my way of doing things, right. And, you know, I have my way of organizing my day, and I'm very structured and calendar obsessed. And, you know, and I have my team. And so the reality is, you know, for someone to come shadow me, yeah, every day is different, that I don't have the time commitment, you know, even if they're like, hey, I'll pay to come shout at you. And I'm like, well, and so my wife would see this that people are, you know, I still want to help people like in between, I tried to get on a quick call to help them out whatever it may be. So at the end of the day, I'm like, I just don't have the capability to shadow all these people reaching out wanting to come to Phoenix AM. And so I was like, why don't my wife she's like, why don't you do in the design community. They're doing this, they're doing these design camps and designers come in, and they teach them, you know, all things design related, and how to set up a relationship with a manufacturer and do furniture. And so she's like, why don't you do this? I'm like, Okay, I'm in. So I went to biz comm where, you know, you went this past home, but I spoke at biz COMM A year ago, a year and a half ago. And I went to Morgan, she put on this a class event. And I said, Look, Morgan, here's my idea. I've been wanting to put on this like builder Summit. I think there's a lot of value a lot of things I wish I knew when I started my company. We don't have anything like this in the industry that's really educating young contractors, or even contractors like you and I mark that have been in the business for a long time, on just better ways, right? To be successful. And from all things, social media, to all things marketing to all things structure structure of your business. And she's like I'm in and then I'm like, well, I need someone to collaborate with. It's kind of a different market as well, that can help teach, you know, a lot of the sessions. And so Nick and I have been friends for a long time. And I know Nick's big on, you know, the community as well, and the industry. And so of course, he called him he was in in a couple minutes. And so that's how it started is I called Morgan I called Nick, we formatted it. We Nashville's our first location, which you went to and then yeah, moving forward, this is something that has continued to grow with, you know, vendors who are partnering, and wanting to collaborate with their network and just create this mastermind community of builders, you know, throughout the country.
27:25
I mean, I'm a bit of an optimist. And if you need someone to run sales on this thing, I nominate myself, because, you know, when you believe something, man, can you sell it? Because I think you can almost quit building. And this thing could be like a full time educational tour. I mean, this is incredible information. And have you guys talked about like, How in the world, I mean, there's a finite amount of time that you guys have to put on? I mean, I'm sure you guys have had some brainstorm sessions. But I mean, how many of these can you do, and even, you know, if you're doing 20, to 30, I mean, you could do this for the rest of your life, and never be have that many repeats. Now you have, you know, obviously, somebody like myself, who, you know, would like to go to every single one, and now it's stopped coming. But you know, and I know, you know, Nathan, from the bison group, and myself are on you guys to try to create some sort of a large gathering, which I think is gonna be really cool. And if you guys don't do it, you probably just have a bunch of stalkers or groups, you know, uninvited. But, I mean, it's a really powerful event. I mean, it's pretty special. And for anyone out there listening, highly, highly recommended. I don't care if you've been building for Wii U, if you've never been a builder, it'd be. I mean, I can't imagine that, how about a leg up? You'd have if you went to this, but you know, whether it's one year, five years, 10 years, 20 years, I mean, it's extremely impressive what you guys are doing, and I know, people will be like, how great could it be? And all I can say is go on? You'll find out?
28:40
Yeah, well, we do want to continue to, you know, from more frequency as well, you know, break it down a little bit more. And we want to continue to refine, you know, the summit and make it better and more feasible. And, you know, we've gone back and forth, you know, is this something we pursue full time? You know, I think there's part of that, but I think part of it's a little tough too, because at least you know, as as it is now, you know, it's one thing, you know, to still be involved in the business enough to understand, you know, what the attendees are dealing with what you're doing with Mark or myself or my team and Because currently, you know, I have clients, I have projects, I know what the markets doing. There's definitely I don't wanna say a leg up but there is, you know, some value of the experience I'm continuing to gain building and owning the company that now can go into as we teach, right, the summit. So, you know, it's something we'll continue to do. I never want to get out of building I love it too much as tough as it is. And I love building companies. I love seeing people be successful. I love seeing my team members be successful at my company, you know, and cheer for them. I love seeing builders such as yourself, Mark just common, kind of catch that wave and continue to grow their brand. It's awesome. I mean, to me, that's like super
29:47
fulfilling. You've mentioned this on many podcasts, but for those that haven't heard it, you know, the silent salesman, to quote yourself and I think he got it from a book but essentially, it's people that are not on your payroll that are promoting your company and so my my new joke with you is going to be I'm not very silent. I mean, yeah, pretty loud salesman. But anyway, I think that's a pretty powerful statement. I think that goes just back to networking and celebrating others, which, you know, I think when you lead by example, you know, it's pretty impressive. One thing I wanted to ask you a little bit about, and I meant to ask it a little bit earlier, but you have a company of 17 people in this came up at the summit. And I didn't understand, you know, self performing work. So we're a small company, we don't self perform work, meaning I don't have a bunch of trimmers, carpenters want to be bond staff that do that. And I understand there's pros and cons to that, you know, Nick, tremendous builders, you know, he's launching a really interesting warranty program, right? I think it's two or three people. It's like $15,000, a year, he wants to, you know, kind of give his clients a white glove service. But now he's kind of it's part of building his brand, and it's going to be mandatory, and people are loving it. Right? I was curious what you guys do for warranty. And I, to my knowledge, I don't think you guys self perform much work. And I was curious why, and what your take on it is because I guess my platform is more similar to yours. I've always, you know, wanted to sub be more flexible, so I'd rather subcontract or picket, but there certainly are some cons to that as well. And so I'd just be curious, your thoughts on, you know, self performing versus not, especially in the warranty side of things as these homes get so big, and, you know, a lot of your clients, you know, are out of town for, you know, large amounts of time.
31:18
Yeah, so there's two parts of that, I think go into the cell performance, and we'll get back to warranty is that it can be tough, right? It can be tough to sell perform. And because our projects are so unique, in the sense that I have some bills that are 14 months, and some they're 28. And then some that are, you know, 4000 square feet, and some that are 60,000. Right, there's such a versatility in the projects that we're building, and the size, that it's just, it's really hard to be able to the ramp up or ramp down with core people. And I do know, other builders that have been successful for me, it's there's only so much time in the day, right. And if we can find our core strength as a company, and we know our core clientele, our ideal client, we know our core marketing strategy, we understand our core project that we're successful at, that's what we're catering to are catering to those people in those projects that we know, that we can have success with. And through that, you know, I know that I had the subcontractor base. And so it's always been strategy for me is to focus on that aspect. And it has allowed unique growth, it has allowed a different I would say trajectory is accompanied by focusing on just the general contracting side as opposed to sub performance. Now with that said, you know, all of my supers do have some capability. A lot of them were craftsmen at some point before they came to join me and then under you know, had to learn the leadership and mentor and, and management side, you know, Paul's one with EFT, EFT construction to on social media. And you know, Mark Dawson, I mean, a lot of my people, pretty much all of them, they have the skill set to put on their tool bags and do some things. Now they're not going to go install a trim package and a house, you know, but they can take care of anything from drywall to trim to cabinet.
32:58
So and a detailed business point of view, would that be outside their scope? So let's I don't know your rates down there. But let's just say, you know, a trimmer is, you know, 5565 bucks an hour, if he's going to go and self perform some of that would would he would you track that time? And then because it's a cost plus, it'd be no different than you hiring a trimmer to come in and do that. But he can do it right then in there? Or is that just something that they do to keep the job moving? Or how do you balance that? Exactly?
33:22
Yeah, that's a good question. And typically, we're talking about small things, but when they are bigger, which does happen on occasion, you know, being the word cost plus builder, I do have in a line item called punch list mechanic. And essentially, that is for, you know, hourly rates at a rate that's agreed upon in our contract. And the punches mechanic is just a more fancy word. But the reality is, there's always the scope gaps, and there's always the gray area. And there's always things that have to be done. And that's where we can build to that line to cover some of those costs, especially if the SuperS putting on their their tool bags on a weekend or after hours to catch up and keep the project on track. Going back to the warranty, something we're doing as well. And you met Andrew Patterson. So Patterson is there a Newport he's worked a long time on this customer care program. Now, truth be told, there's a lot of builders here locally in Scottsdale, there's a lot of Newport there's a lot of my builder 20 grew from Charleston and all over they do like a customer care program. And essentially, in markets where clients have second homes are gone a lot and even for those that are there full time, they may not maintain their home like they should these are essentially service agreements where you're going to be doing the client could do them and get reminders or you could go do them you know, whether it be cleaning air filters or power washing driveways or you know decks and unclogging rain gutters, I mean, you know, shower drains and you know, flushing out water heaters from the calcium buildup of hard water, I mean, all these little things you have to do maintain your home. So we're actually going to be beta testing and working with Patterson on this customer program over the next two years and implemented something that I've wanted, you know, we warranty our homes, but this will keep it a lot more organized and formatted for our clients. So not quite understand that so you're going to be sub contracting the warranty out or your question? Or you're creating a program like Andrew Pettersen. Okay, so most people have their own system, whatever that may be, what Patterson's don't even like build a chain, a lot of us go to build a trend because it's a project management software. And, you know, we can use from to do lists to daily logs and scheduling and all this stuff. I'm diligent, essentially, Patterson has created his own software. So he actually has his own software that you go in, you put in your database, you have client info and addresses and you have the normal services. So say that the client buys a gold plan. And they're gonna pay like you said, like, So Nick's been doing this. So you know, Mark with Patterson. So let's say the client pays 15 grand a year for the gold plan. And what that means is, it includes you know, X number of filter changes, X number of, you know, cleaning out the gutters or whatever, servicing equipment on the house, the normal stuff, right, and there's a whole list that is done. So the software automates the payments, and then it also helps someone track to schedule, hey, we're up for this maintenance go. And we have someone that goes and takes care of that. Additionally, there could be some extras, right? That could be on a car, like, hey, I want my Windows cleaned, right in Arizona, we get these monsoons. And so after monsoon season, we could have a few different window companies bid and say we'll come clean the windows for 800 bucks. And so in the database software, you know, our trade partners have access to the database, and we say, hey, this client is looking for their $800 window clean, and someone could claim that and then they go do it and we manage it. So really, what I'm implementing is that we'll still be still performing all the warranty will still be managing it with our base in Arizona, but I'm using the software that Patterson's created or last few years.
36:46
Interesting, huh, that was funny, I was just making a note here, there's a company here called curl home maintenance, I use them on my own home. And we've we've been using it as like a closing gift lately to basically gift our clients like a two or three, three year, you know, extended warranty where they'll come four times a year, and I looked at doing some warranty. And at the time, it was like, you know, for me, it was like, you know, a couple 100,000 You know, Sprinter van, also the personnel, the software, I mean, they were just really impressive. I still like the branding. And there's a part of it that, you know, like, Nick, I would love, you know, big picture to control all of it. But there's also so much time in the day. And it's like, I think the root of my entrepreneurial, I guess, organization has always been subcontracted out with good people versus trying to self perform at all. And so I've decided, you know, a couple years ago not to do that. But anyway, that's interesting. If we took a look at it again, you know, we probably
37:36
well, what's interesting is ideally, because I don't want to sell perform, I just really don't, it's not part of my business model. I mean, just personally, I'm just not whole lot interested in it. And just, it's another aspect to manage and is already enough to manage and the complexity of our projects that I don't need that. But the warranty is important, because when it protects the brand, you know, your tail gets longer with every house you build. And so you always want to protect the client too in their investment. And you want to protect yourself from possible future issues. Maybe a client doesn't maintain it, or say they didn't, I mean, whatever comes up in normal maintenance. And so it's just another white glove, you know, another feather in the cap or something for the client to say, Yeah, I want to go with Mark or Brad, because they're going to take care of me well beyond the build, and then the software helps organize it in a way where it's just not heavy lifting for me. Yeah,
38:19
that sounds great. I had a question, you know, and we're gonna, we need to do a five part miniseries to get all the stuff I want to talk about with you. So we're not gonna have that kind of time today. You know, if people are more interested, you've talked a lot about social media. And, you know, I call you, I mean, You are the Sultan of social, I mean, you've got an incredible following. And you do a great job. And for those that are interested, you know, check out all your handles, we'll have them listed in the notes at the end, too. But essentially, I think the bottom line is be consistent. And I think that's my number one takeaway with your social strategy. So we're not gonna focus on that today. What I wanted to ask you about was your podcast. I know why I started my podcast is kind of unique, because I'm having you on. And I was on your podcast in August, after we met you had me on and it was a really enjoyable experience. I had such a fantastic time on it. And I was actually speech calm major, which you wouldn't know because I'm so quiet at your gatherings. And I was like, I could do this. And but even if it was a miserable failure, I would just enjoy talking with people because I just I'm very curious. And you know, obviously, we named this show that curious builder was pretty self fulfilling there. But why did you start a podcast and what was your inspiration? And I guess, because I've called you a few times with some ideas as we're about to unroll here. By the time this podcast releases, you know, we'll have about five or six episodes out there. We're pre recording a few just to have some bullets in the gun, if you will. But tell me a little bit about your journey into creating your podcast and where you find yourself now.
39:45
Yeah, so it's interesting. You know, I've been fortunate to meet some amazing people right over the years very interesting people, unique stories. Again, some of my clients are pretty interesting, right that I had the fortune to build for and and So a lot of people said, Brad, like, why don't you do a podcast? You know, I think, you know, there's a lot of information share on your social channels and socialists, you know, and so my whole intent was like, Okay, well, you know, maybe, you know, there's some value as I put this out there, and one of my issues as I listen to podcasts, and that's why I like the context of this conversation, Mark, because you've really dove into like, you know, everything from marketing strategies to operations, and, you know, business growth. And I found that there are a lot of podcasts at the time, you know, years ago that were very much like to surface like, to friends talking, and what's your story? How do you get into this? And the whole hour becomes that and I'm like, What did I really gain? You know, listening for this hour, not much. And so I would tune out. And so I've always been big, and you'll see this listening to mine, and you came on Mark was very similar. I mean, the client comes on, and I kind of know that they have their specialty, whatever that is, and we're gonna dive right into it. And what I found was that a couple things happened that I didn't realize is one, it became an education platform for my clients. So my clients listen. And so now I have clients that come to me and say, Brad, okay, I've listened your podcast, I gotta get a designer, I gotta get an architect. So now it's creating the ideal client, they listen, they understand what makes a project successful. So that's one aspect number two, my guests share things like I specifically I had Matt Reisinger on and something that he shared, we're going to cost plus, and I'm like, Matt, how do you? How do you do this with a client where, you know, they want three bids for everything, you know, they want three bids for, you know, concrete, because he had his key point, he said, I don't, he said, if it's a life safety project, if it's life safety of the house, where, you know, I can be sued, or I can lose my license or go to jail, you know, framing, waterproofing, concrete excavation, you know, these items, I get one. And then a couple weeks later, I'm doing this incredibly large project with a client, he has a building consultant, you know, like a third party management company that's going to be involved, like our owners rep. And the owners rep, one of his fundamental things in his contract is you get three bids for every line item. And so I sat there, and I said, No, I said, I'll give you three for cabinets. And I'll give you three for paint. But I've given you one, for the main components, because this is a very complicated build with a lot of unique items. And he looked at me, he's like, okay, that's fine. And the owner was fine. And so you get this conference. So so that's one aspect. And then, you know, that selfishly, yeah, there's more, you know, all my guests, they have a network, you know, they reshare that and, and it's open up other doors, and you become a thought leader in the industry, for lack of a better word. And, you know, it's opened up my network and opportunities. And so, you know, I found that there's just a lot of value from the podcast. And, you know, it is, the one part I do love is when people reach out listeners that reach out pretty frequently like, Hey, Brad, just appreciate what you're doing. I've learned XY and Z from these episodes. And, you know, it's been super valuable. And, you know, and so, yeah, that's really the thought behind the origination and kind of what it's grown to.
42:55
That's interesting. It's, I would say, the thing that I've also enjoyed is hearing people's stories, we had one of my designers on rigid Regus. And I've known her for a couple of years now. And she told me a story that, you know, again, annoying, you're sitting here, you're, you know, it's kind of like you're just, it's one on one conversation, you're kind of maybe going deeper than you went on certain things. And she's like, Yeah, I actually went to school for fashion. And she told the story about dumpster diving for furniture to repurpose it. And I think some really unique things come out of some of the podcasts. And like you, I wanted it to be educational, I try not always successfully, I'm guessing. But I try to keep in my back of the My mind's eye of who's listening. And I enjoy listening to yours specifically, because I'll usually get two to three ideas out of it, from you know, from the client or from you, obviously, but as you listen to a person's voice, one of my questions to you is how do you do you ever have to worry about becoming, you know, stale with, like repetitious questions? Because a lot of times, you know, I'm asking people the origin story, but because each person you're interviewing is so different, it seems to me that there's always going to be a unique spin on it. Have you ever kind of analyzed yourself and being like, well, I asked similar questions, but because the answers are different every time it's okay.
44:09
Yeah, and that parts, that part can be tough, right? Especially as I'm like, okay, if I'm bringing on builder X and designer y, and architect Z, you know, how many questions can I ask someone different architects or different designers specifically? And so there is some of that I think at the core of it, you know, a lot of people have unique experiences to share, right? And whether it's their story, their life experience, how they got in the industry, and there is application right and really, as you mentioned, the goal is to get a couple of nuggets out there for each you know, each people but at the same time it's really important that yes, I'm gonna have a core listeners that listen to every episode and half right and that does happen. But you do get a lot of people that either dabble or they listen to one here one there. And so it's okay to repeat like people listen me I'd say it all the time. Right Chase experienced that money and silent salesman and there's some recurring things, but it's very applicable and I do want to drive home most topics, so maybe they they're delivered in a different way. But, you know, the listener can at least understand the value of what we're presenting. And that's okay. That we're reassuring that to some extent, but yeah, you don't want to just be like a parrot repeating yourself at the same time. Yeah, yeah. That
45:15
was curious. Actually, I was, I thought that was a unique question, then Nick, on the modern craftsman. I believe he yesterday said this, you know, this will be kind of interesting. But he's like, you know, and I feel the same way. Like, sometimes I feel selfish, because I am asking questions that I that I want the answer to, because I'm dealing with it in my brain right now. Like, basically, my guest is my business coach, and I'm not paying them for this advice. It could be really bad advice, I guess. But I'm just like, Man, I'm dealing with this issue. And I guess what's presently on your mind, or you're really dealing with like, for us, we've had a couple of position changes. And you know, I know your mantra is hire slow, and fire fast, and I'm pretty good at doing the opposite. I'm really good at hiring really fast. And then I'm too loyal to not to lie, I don't know if you can be too loyal to somebody, but I'm just like, you know, just really patient sometimes, and then you know, that person is gone. And then people come up to you and be like, oh, man, you know, ever since they've been gone, it's been so much better. And this is why I'm like, Well, why didn't you say anything before? Like, you know, and they're like, well, we didn't really know. And it's like, sometimes that you feel like that person is the only person for that role. And, you know, you need to trust your instincts. And if your instincts are telling you something different. There's other people out there, they're probably saying the same thing. And it could damage your reputation, if you hold on to something that essentially is affecting your corporate culture.
46:30
Yeah. And the reality is, and that's, again, going back to the podcast, you know, selfishly, as we're dealing with things is you and I mark when our guests and I had, again, Jeremy Andrus, who owns Traeger grills, you know, I've tried to always bring guests too, that are outside of the building industry, because it's really focused on, you know, at the end of the day, you know, our business owners. And I say this all the time, we're business owners, we're not, I mean, we are contractors, but we just business owners have a focus on construction. And we have to understand the core of that. And so I had Jeremy Andrews, who was Trager. And when he talked about company culture, and he made a comment, he's like, I don't care how valuable and how talented the person is, they're bad for the company culture, get rid of him, it doesn't work, like it'll sour the company. And the next day, I terminated my accountant, like that fast. And it just unfortunately, like, you know, you have to have these guests on that, you know, speak about the successes to company culture, and ideologies of running a business, and then you apply those. And then ideally, you know, you created a nice core for yourself.
47:26
I think it was interesting. In this, as I'd mentioned this in episode zero of just some of the inspirations as we've started our podcast, and you shared a little bit, I mean, obviously, we have sponsors, you know, they're listed on our website as well, at curious builder, podcast.com. But you know, we've got Pella NRD, we've got Alpine hardwoods, and there's a number of others that are joining as well. And, you know, I think early on, I mean, we were getting sponsors, before we ever had a podcast, in which you were really encouraging me of how to do that, or just, you know what the value is, but a lot of it ultimately, I think they're, they're basing their value or the return on investment of, you know, essentially my relationship with them. And you would you want to go on above and beyond for your sponsors, walk me through a little bit about how you essentially validate your sponsors trust in not only your podcast, but your brand. And you know, with this thought that you always want to give your sponsors more than they even paid for. Because you know, that loyalty is a two way street.
48:24
Yeah, and we there's a lot of appreciation I have for our vendors and those we collaborate with, right, because at the end of the day, having good products, you know, that align with my brand is the end goal here and, you know, having a personal relationship, or I could call them when I'm in a bind, and vice versa, and, you know, deliver a marketing reach well beyond what they had anticipated. You know, this collaboration and a lot of brands are looking for a different way, you know, anyone could put an ad on TV that's extremely costly, they can go print media, but you know, at the end of the day, every company, you know, manufactures looking well, who's our ideal client? How do we get to him who has that reach. And so there is some collaboration with someone such as yourself, mark that has a great footprint and reputation in your area. And you're looking to build the industry and they could partner with you locally, and there's a lot of you no reciprocation, that they'll get on the backside. And so the vendor side is really important to me. And, you know, we support them in many ways when they open new showrooms and have events and help our clients understand what they're putting out. Because just like the silent salesman, if I'm selling their brand, I'm not on their payroll. Yeah, they may be, you know, coordinate with me on some aspects of the business by the end of the day. It's increasing their reach as well.
49:35
Something that I think was Tyler grace, one of the CO hosts of the modern craftsman with Nick Schiffer is I met him at biz calm, and we had some a couple of interesting interactions. I can't wait to see him again. He gave me a really interesting piece of advice that I've employed immediately, which was, you know, he wanted to make sure that his sponsors got a very good value for what they wanted and a lot of the podcasts obviously, like old style radio, or I guess current style, right? do is, you know, ad reads, and we certainly have those. But he thought, because there was such a video demand in the industry that he wanted to also do like, hey, for a main sponsor, I'm going to do a quarterly video that's dedicated to you. And that's going to live on our, you know, our various social channels. And so I've done that for our main sponsors, and we've kind of we actually, on our website, we have a three tier sponsorship, you know, kind of platform where people can invest at different levels, and then I'll show like different video commitments. And I think you've been real helpful, in addition to that, of realizing that, you know, we don't have a massive following, but we have an extremely active following. And I think, you know, whether you want to call micro influencers, or it doesn't really matter, it's just like, you have these incredible fans, a lot of them are past clients, a lot of them are current relationship, you know, vendors, and but it just, there's a lot of activity. And you would kind of use the, it's nice to have a huge following, but it's a bit of a vanity metric sometime, can you speak a little bit to, you know, those out there that are looking maybe at their Instagram, or YouTube or any of their handles and being like, hey, I have 1000 or 1500, and they look at someone else, and I have 200,000, I'm like, well, in today's world, I'm never gonna get there. How do you encourage those people?
51:14
Yeah, it goes back to what you said consistency be consistent, right? I mean, for me, yeah, there's other users that have more, but you know, today, I'll be making my 25th 100, you know, 2500 posts on Instagram. Thing is, that's that's a lot of posts over years and years. The thing is, is like, but your point, it doesn't matter. Like, yeah, vanity metric, it's great that I can have, you know, a half a million followers, whatever that number may be. But are they clients? No, I mean, I only need, you know, 15 of my followers that are real clients that want to hire me that have been following me over the year. So right now, I think we're closing on 145,000 on Instagram, but then then they, you know, there's clients that reach out, Hey, Brad, we're gonna build with you someday. And it's a handful, I can't bill for 145,000 people I can build for 15. So ideally, you know, it's, it's okay, you, you know, it's quality. Yeah, there is some aspect of the quality aspect, but, but you're looking for quality, right, then a day. And there's a lot of vendors that don't just want to work with companies that have a ton of followers. You know, there's micro influencers that have 10,015 1000, even 4000, because they have a loyal following,
52:16
you know, in Minnesota, and we're going to run out of time here. But you know, we have a very strong builder base, Minnesota Housing First been around a long time, our Parade of Homes, which we've spoken out before on your podcast, back in August. But this, there's a lot of builders that I don't have any idea who they are. And they do extremely high end work. They have relationships with a few of the highest end architects in Minneapolis, St. Paul, but they have a zero, like footprint, like, you know, I'll drive by one of these homes. And I'm like, that's like a five $6 million house, it'll be a builder I've never heard of before. And they just have a very, like their business plan is to cater only to these high end architects. And it's just interesting, it's different than what mine is. And I've kind of you know, I, you know, I would like to build more for some of these higher end architects, and you know, we can do the work, we've got the chops, the quality to do that. And I don't know, if it's our brand, it's the relationship sometimes I wonder, as a builder, you know, because we get so many of our clientele that come directly to us. And we talked about this before in other podcasts like, who, where does the client come from? Do they in our market, they traditionally will come to the builder first, and then we'll interview architects and then designers down in Texas, I'd heard that they go to designers first. And then it's just funny how a geographically around the country. This process is somewhat different. And you know, and every person needs to respect the other person. But when you do, man, it's it's three. It's three reindeer that are Holland, Santa sleigh, you know, we can all be Rudolph in this analogy, I guess.
53:38
Yeah, there's no doubt it's amazing. And that's why it's important to network, right? Because you get to understand, you know, how you can maybe use those strategies in other markets and, and, and hone in on them. And they're Minnesota.
53:48
Now. Well, we're out of time. We could talk for hours. Thank you very much for coming on, Brad. And I hope no one else gives you an intro quite like that. I don't have an accent. even remotely close to that intro. Where can our listeners find you?
54:01
Yeah, so AF T construction. Our company name is a finer test. Construction but@construction.com All of our handles are at construction. Some of most of them are underscore but LinkedIn, Brad love it. And YouTube, you know, Pinterest, Instagram, all of them are at construction. So
54:17
all right, excellent. And for those listening to all be on the website in the notes, as well, Brandon as always, it's a pleasure. Thanks again. Appreciate your time.
54:25
Thank you, Mark.
