Episode 57 - Renae Keller on Tailoring Spaces: The Personal Touch in Professional Design
Episode #57 | Renae Keller | Tailoring Spaces
Renae Keller from Renae Keller Interior Design joins us to dive into the vibrant world of interior design. Mark & Renae chat about the thrill of "always sourcing" unique pieces from places like Pagoda Red and the benefits of industry groups like the Pearl Collective for networking and growth. Renae and Mark also reflect on the importance of effective communication and decision-making in creating dream spaces for clients, all while navigating the post-pandemic resurgence of the design community's energy and connection.
Listen to the full episode:
About Renae Keller
At RKID, we don't just design spaces; we curate experiences throughout your home. With a blend of creativity, expertise, and a deep understanding of your story and personal style, we transform houses into homes that feel uniquely yours.
Our commitment to excellence, attention to detail, and passion for storytelling set us apart. When you choose RKID, you're not just choosing a design firm; you're choosing a partner in bringing a space to life that truly reflects who you are. Your journey begins here.
“Burn the candles, use the china…”
Resources
-
Mark D. Williams
Today on the podcast we had Renae Keller and what a great conversation we have I, we talked about really her point of view of how the industry has changed and evolved, which I think is a fascinating listen, you know, for 26 years, she's been observing the industry. And some of the things, some of the art that we maybe had the beginning has sort of been lost, but it's really encouraging to know that some of that's coming back, and I really enjoyed maybe the end of the interview the most. So stick around for that or fast forward if you're getting bogged down in the middle, because, you know, I'd say, burning the candles and using the China, which is really the main motto of Rene Keller, as a person and as an industry is, you know, be organic, you know, gravitate towards the things that you love and put them in the house. So I hope you enjoyed the episode. I know I certainly did. And thanks for tuning into the curious builder podcast. Alright, welcome to the curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today I'm joined with Rene Keller from Renee Keller interior designs. Thanks for coming to the studio, Renee.
Unknown Speaker 0:54
Well, thanks for having me.
Mark D. Williams<br> 0:55
We've tried to get this a few times. But our busy schedules have finally allowed us to get together. And I'm excited to bring you in. Well, thanks
Unknown Speaker 1:02
for having me.
Mark D. Williams<br> 1:03
We have had a few designers on in the past. And you and I had chatted a little bit before coming on to this one that I thought it'd be fun to do something a little bit different. We always like to highlight a business and we'll get to that. But for the audience listening, I can't wait to talk to about it. Just get your perspective on the design industry. You've been in the business for 25 plus years. And I'd love to just hear your viewpoints of how that's changed kind of what you see today. And we'll just kind of go kind of from there. Yeah,
Speaker 1 1:29
the industry has definitely changed. We were just talking about this at the office, we used to, you know, take catalogs of furniture and go make copies and just stand there for hours. And it flipped through it. And and then now we only look at screens all day long. And we save it on files, and then we email it, we don't even print it barely. So it's the way we're delivering our messaging and our vision to our clients is very different. The retail industry is very different. There are so many more options for people to see and to gain themselves versus only having a designer get for them. So it's not really to our advantage. There's also there's showrooms. There's not as many showrooms
Mark D. Williams<br> 2:19
Do you think why What do you think led to the absence of the showrooms? Do you think just as you've whether it's social media, or just digital media that everyone is gaining? So many of their images and inspirations from that the need to go into places physically has stopped? Or what do you think led to showrooms shutting down because we still need as the builder and the designer, we still need to source the materials, we need to order them, we still need to obviously, tangibly put them into our homes. Is it just that? I mean, what's your perspective on the showrooms kind of declining?
Speaker 1 2:49
I think they don't need as many pieces on the floor, I think they can see one finish on one of their items, and then have tried to vision envision that and then be able to order it by seeing it on another model. And they just don't need to house every finish and every style. And I think that they people can send things everywhere. They don't have to physically be in every showroom all the time.
Mark D. Williams<br> 3:18
Do you think that has been a debtor a detriment? Or do you think it's just the age we live in? I get the sense from our previous conversations that there's a part of it that you feel nostalgic loss towards? I know there's a lot of pros and cons, but what's your feeling about where we are compared to where? You know, we used to be?
Speaker 1 3:39
Yeah, it there are pros and cons? Definitely, I think that it there is some efficiencies. With the COVID times I think we have been forced to figure out how to do things more efficiently, how to meet via zoom, I think there's a lot of things that we have benefited from. But there's also things where we had to do and I'm like, I don't want to ever do that, again. It doesn't feel the same.
Mark D. Williams<br> 4:05
Or give me an example. Um,
Speaker 1 4:07
I guess, you know, showing people materials via zoom, we would we would literally actually drop off materials at people's doorsteps and then hold it up. And or actually, it was really
Mark D. Williams<br> 4:18
COVID. I mean, yeah, like outside their front door, they actually
Speaker 1 4:22
would drop off samples to their house, and then they would bring it in their house, and then we'd have a set of samples too. So we'd be able to talk and hold it up. It just was a little bit more difficult took more time. But we did what we could, but it's you can't replace having clients come in and look at all of the samples with all the fabrics and have you explain why there's you know, a, a texture on here and how that works with it and see it you know, right in in real time.
Mark D. Williams<br> 4:54
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, no, absolutely. How I mean, I guess how it If people don't know any better, I mean depends on the agent, the client, right? So if you have repeat clients that, you know, used to design a certain way, and now it's different, do you ever see the clients commenting on it? That it feels different? Or is it been sort of a subtle shift that unless you're in it every day, maybe they don't kind of realize that? I
Speaker 1 5:18
think if you have repeat clients, it's a lot easier because they know you, they trust you. They're like, I know, you know, the color that I like. So that is a wonderful thing for a designer, and it's actually more efficient. And if you have a new client, and they're actually a younger client, they actually don't need to see and feel things quite as much. I feel like they're just easy. It's, it's more acceptable to order something online. They're just used to it. They've
Mark D. Williams<br> 5:45
sort of been trained. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I can see the pros and cons. It's interesting, because we've had recent guests on, and we've been talking a lot about AI on the podcast, we've seen it mostly just from a language model, you know, whether it helps writing blogs, and I noticed on your website, you know, you have you know, you publish about every two weeks, you know, a blog, how long have you been doing that? And how do you how do you capture maybe some AI technology to help you with that? Or how are you? What's the inspiration? And what are you hoping to gain behind? You know, sort of your, let's call it marketing through blogging? Yeah.
Speaker 1 6:18
So we we started being very active in blog writing, probably about six months ago. And what I wanted to do was highlight products that we like to use. And we have been going into some immersive experiences for, let's say, the house of roll, or Fisher Paykel. And we have been starting to go on these immersive trips, whether it's in Chicago or New York. And that has been such a welcome experience, we used to do that all the time. And so what we've been doing is speaking about them. And those are the products that we'd like to use. And those are what we want our clients to use. So if a client's looking for faucets, things like that, we want them to look at what we have been learning about them, and how we want to use them in their projects. I
Mark D. Williams<br> 7:05
mean, that makes sense. So you're getting a first hand look at wherever the showrooms are, rather than maybe being in each state, you're traveling to a dedicated sales center for the United States or a regional one. And I'm guessing most of the time you're not bringing your clients on those would be a group of designers, builders, architects, or who's going on these kind of experience tours. Yeah, designers
Speaker 1 7:23
and builders and architects. Yes. And we're just learning about what's behind the wall. And what what's the newest technology coming out? And, you know, what are the different tiers of finishes that work with each other, if you want to go to the top tier in the primary bath? If you wanted to go to the basic tier in the lower level? How can all of these things work together by using the whole house of roll, you know, company
Mark D. Williams<br> 7:50
in before? So how long have these tours kind of been, you know, a forefront of your business? I mean, it sounds like you used to do them a lot more locally? Or how is this? Yeah, so
Speaker 1 8:00
we just started? Let's see, was it last January. Prior to that, we haven't been going on them for three, four years. And then prior to that, we were going on all the time, we would go out to California for signature kitchens, we would be invited all the time. So too, sometimes even too much we would say, all right, you're going to this one, we can't be gone this long. And so it's wonderful because you You learn so much, you are the expert. We know how to if there's an issue, we can ask our reps, you know, we have this problem. Can you help us we know that you have a, you know, a Soviet in your, in your product line, what would you do here, and they are there to help us they have their product knowledge like that
Mark D. Williams<br> 8:50
for the and I get invited on a fair amount of these trips as well, just with young kids that I usually turn them down. But I would like to go as the kids get older, maybe I'll bring them with but one of the questions that I have for you is let's say you're listening to this podcast, and you are, you know, kind of an up and comer designer, where is the best way to kind of get invited on these trips is through your local manufacturers. Rep. How do people find out about some of these? Yeah,
Speaker 1 9:16
I think being involved in some of the groups, I would say WINC would be a good one, ASI D working with your local showrooms, such as Ferguson or all Inc. It things like that. So just being involved with the people that are spec, specify them specifying them and always, you know, talking about things reaching out asking questions, and just, you know, keeping in contact with your people, no matter where they go. A lot of times it's a pretty small community.
Mark D. Williams<br> 9:51
I agree with that. I mean, I get a lot of requests usually through all link just because that's why I seem to do a lot of my purchasing with Ross. You know, the general manager is always saying hey, You know, we're doing this with signatures sounds like it's a pretty, you know, amazing experience. And I think from their standpoint, I mean, he, you know, he goes has been on it so many times. He's kind of like, you know, hey, I'd love for someone else to go and see it, especially for those of us that have not gone or haven't had the opportunity to go. And, you know, having just gotten back from, you know, cape is and you know, the International builders show, it's just overwhelming, you know, going to the builder show even there's a million plus square feet of showroom floor, and 100,000 Plus, you know, builders and designers. But it's not only I think, is it important to see in kind of stay ahead of what's coming up and what's out there. I think a big part of it is the relationship building. And I know that's kind of been important to your career later on. Maybe we'll talk a little bit about that. But I would imagine, even when you're working with others, or going with other designers on these trips, how are you guys talking to each other? I know, like builders, they have built their 20s. And, you know, there's a lot of networking groups for builders, what kind of groups do designers have to sort of ping each other and say, you know, so it's not just a bunch of designers sort of always not sharing or talking to each other? Is there a pretty, you know, I guess, warm community among designers to ask ideas and kind of collectively, you know, build each other's brands? Or what does that what does that relationship like?
Speaker 1 11:16
Yeah, I would say locally, I don't know of any actual official groups. We do have, I just had somebody asked me yesterday in a text, do you know of a high end metal cabinetry line that I could use at a garage? And that was just a designer that I know. And I responded, you know, unfortunately, I don't. So if anybody knows of one, please let me know. And then I'm also part of a coaching group that we have, I think it's 100 designers that are in a boardroom. It's called the Pearl collective, and it's amazing. And so what I'm doing, actually, I'm leaving Saturday for the boardroom, we have two conferences, or I think I would call it a conference a year. And we have a Slack channel. And we can ask any question about HR, we can talk about it, does anybody know the table that can collapse and wash dishes? And anything from a job description to you know, what would you you know, pay this person that does this, this? And this is what's amazing, amazing. How
Mark D. Williams<br> 12:23
long have you been a part of that?
Speaker 1 12:24
So I just joined again, so I was a part of this group between 2017 and 2021. Took a break, and then I just joined in January, again, I assume it's across the country, then. Yes, yeah. Across the country. And I think there's some from other parts of the world. That's amazing. It is amazing. So scale Dobby, and I have kept in touch with them. Some members, and we just, I'm so excited to collaborate. And there are people there that have the same, you know, small business with five people, there are people that have 50 people, there are people that are general contractors in their state, and also over in the design business, some have a, you know, they have super high end, some are, you know, want, you know, medium, you know, kind of in the medium realm, and so there's just all different things, and it's just an open community. That's amazing. And there's just, you know, three year plans for your, your project or your trajectory. And just, it's just an amazing group. So I'd highly recommend it. So a lot
Mark D. Williams<br> 13:30
of resources, I assume there's some sort of a, you know, a sign up or a yearly fee or something. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 13:35
Yeah, it definitely. And then each month, there's a there's a call that you can hop on, and if you don't make it, it's recorded, oh, wonder sees consistently and gather that information?
Mark D. Williams<br> 13:45
You know, we were talking earlier on that, you know, earlier on in your career, you felt like there was maybe more community or that, you know, more showrooms more activity. And it was funny, because when I was reading some of the notes prior, I was thinking, I actually feel like that's coming back. And I could be biased because, you know, even the podcasts that we're recording this on right now is because of you know, things like the contractor coalition, or other podcasts and kind of this community have really open minded I mean, honestly open hearted individuals that just want to share and gather with other entrepreneurs and basically the rising tide floats all boats, just to simply I want to share what I have. I want to ask you questions, and maybe together we can elevate our business. Do you feel I mean, do you feel that sense of energy in Minneapolis specifically, and then do you think it's also happening across the country and why? Yeah,
Speaker 1 14:37
I do feel like it's coming or that is coming back. I feel like people are yearning for connection, especially after what we what we lost when we are in COVID. What I thought in COVID I hated Well, that's not a great word to say. I just liked having the faces covered. I wanted to see people smile and I missed hugging So that was a big thing for me. But now that we are kind of back in our a game, it has been a joy to have people over for happy hour or a coffee to connect. And I'm a big connector. I love that I love to share things. I think we all can, there's enough room for everyone to have enough business. And if it doesn't work in my timeframe, then it's in somebody else's. And so that, that that is definitely important to me. And I feel like it is coming back.
Mark D. Williams<br> 15:28
It was funny, you just mentioned about hugging and seeing people's facial expressions. I had. Do you remember the for a while there? Have you seen people weren't shaking hands, right? And remember that was being predicted that like shaking hands with like, nobody would shake hands anymore. And like it was going to be a lost art. It's funny, because I remember my grandpa, you know, teaching me how to shake a hand like firm look them in the eyes, you know, no limp fish. Yeah, you know, you can tell a lot about a person by how they, they how the handshake, honestly. And so it was just so funny to me that that part was sort of taken away in business. And now, you know, looking back, it almost seems laughable where we are today. It's like that was a period of time, everyone that was there very much remembers it. But it's kind of funny how, you know, time sort of erased some of those things. And I don't think that I mean, that obviously cannot stop centuries of, you know, traditions, if you will,
Speaker 1 16:20
yeah, and you know, it was scary. We didn't know. And I remember teaching our kids that also. And also, when we hold up a glass, you know, we look everybody in the eye, and we say cheers, whether it's a glass of milk, water, wine, or beer. Yeah. And we always thought that was pretty fun. But it's just the way you greet people and talk to people and interact with people. It
Mark D. Williams<br> 16:41
was pretty funny, because one of the things that for those that don't know, Renee, one of the first times that I met you, which isn't actually that long ago, well, I've been aware of your brand for you know, decades now. You know, I think my first meaningful interaction with you was at the Midwest, home and design awards maybe two years ago. And you you have a very warm, inviting personality about you when you first meet you. But I also noticed right away that you also seem very competent, and very efficient. And it was interesting, because like, as a builder now, like I appreciate both those qualities, because you can have someone that's very warm and inviting, and it draws you in. But then if that person doesn't help you get you know, the house built one of the designs, you know, selected, it becomes sort of not as helpful. But if you're not warm and inviting people don't want you there either. So to balance both of those looking on, I feel like you, you know, you have both sides of the coins, and it looks like it's obviously served you very well in your career. Well, thank
Unknown Speaker 17:37
you appreciate that.
Mark D. Williams<br> 17:38
And the reason I bring it up is because when we walked upstairs, Joel, my recent office manager hire you walked in, gave him a big hug. And I was thinking in my mind like, wow, she's very friendly. I got a handshake, but someone she's never met before she gave a hug. Like, what's that all about? Well, and it turns out, you've known Joel for a long time, because your kids know each other extremely well.
Speaker 1 18:00
Yep, absolutely. To the point where he's like, Oh, your son is my you know, my, my third son,
Mark D. Williams<br> 18:06
which is hilarious to me. So anyway, watching that unfold was actually pretty funny to me. So tell us a little bit about, one of the things that I really enjoyed was the way you view interior designs, and you have it listed on your website, two things that stuck out to me. One was that interior designers are problem solvers. And then the other is that interior design is not a transactional business. It's a relationship business. And I just wondered if you could kind of speak to both of those points.
Speaker 1 18:35
Yeah. You know, we all love the creativity side of it. And we love having, you know, furniture and pretty things. And that definitely is part of interior design. But each day we walk through, you know, what our clients want. So the first thing is we talk with our clients, and we say, why are you doing this? You know, is this a lake home? Is this your, you know, your, your Empty Nest Home, and we try to get as much information as possible. And so this is we're also building our thoughts. And we know why the why, and we want to know our clients. So we get really, I would say, connected with our clients. And if we ever have any questions down the road, we we write down a vision of what the whole project is going to be. And if there's ever any questions down the road, we come back to that vision, we say, what did we say here? And that's kind of our North Star. And it's so it's so relationships are relational, relational, excuse me. And we want to work collaboratively with our builder and our architect. We want to be brought in as soon as possible. And we want I don't want to be an architect. I don't want to be a builder and I don't think the architect wants to be the designer and neither does the builder. Everybody wants to be told what to do in the right time. We don't want to miss our deadlines. We want to we want actually schedule, so we know that we're prepared in the car. It does not feel rushed. That is the main thing. And if there's a delay, we need to know about it. And, you know, we're trying to get all the best information given to us. So you can put it in. And we're all, you know, on top of things. If there is an issue, which there always are issues that come up, things are delayed or they're discontinued, then we solve that problem. There's always an option. And we can all put up our put in our minds. And we can say, Okay, we could do A, B, or C, but put it together to show the client and say, What do you think? And then we make our choices, and we move on? How
Mark D. Williams<br> 20:35
often do you think one of the things that we've been trying to do the last couple of years with Miss mixed success is? And I understand the reason why, and I'll maybe preface this with, it'd be nice to have all the selections. And shockingly, the plan completely done and everything ordered before you start in your career? What Why do you? Why do you think that that, and I'm not gonna say the norm, but what percent of projects have you been on? And let's not we'll take well, we can use remodels, too, I guess. But I would imagine with remodels, that's probably a higher percentage in where I'm going with this is the analogy of you know, why do we feel like we need to build the airplane while we're flying it. And you know, so often, as a builder, I've been guilty this for decades, where, you know, I'm so excited to get them in architectural design, get in for permit, because I want to get this in the schedule, I want to get building. And we'll figure out some of the design, especially if you're on a Cost Plus model, you can figure this out while you're going. But it's just not to the same level, the the, you know, the trade partners can't really bid a plan accurately, the client doesn't really know what it's going to cost. But yet, the other model is the client does have to trust the entire team, because you have to spend three to six months to eight months to a year doing all of those selections, getting everything queued up, then you price it out. But there's kind of this disconnect between when you price something out and really know what it costs, which I can't do without all the actual information, versus also giving the client a guideline of where they're at. Because if you just design with no budget, it's going to come in over budget inevitably. And then. So anyway, I just wanted to ask you more of an open ended question which I poorly framed, which is really just in your 26 years? Plus, how often have you how realistic is it to have every selection done ahead of time? And is there some work? Is there a compromise in the middle? Oh,
Speaker 1 22:26
goodness, it's a big question. Yeah, it is a big question. And we were we're just working on a project right now out of state. And we were told that we had to have all the selections made within six months, and it's 10,000 square feet. And that is what they want it and it didn't happen. And it was just a very unique project.
Mark D. Williams<br> 22:45
How far did you get in selections,
Speaker 1 22:47
we got, I would say 80%. And for the materials. And it just was a very, it's a it's a, it's a third home for the client is a destination home, it's not a lake home, it's not as you know, a main residence. It's in a golf community. So it's, it's, it's just different. And so a lot of guest rooms, and we're feverishly trying to work on it in so massive. So we did do our best. And then it was a lot of the layouts and things like that. So, but they're just still ordering things now. And so it's just going to show that there are some things that we're running low on stock, things like that. So then they wanted all the lighting also, which was like, you know, we didn't, we didn't have all the cabinetry. So you know, and there's a ton of cabinetry, too. So it was very difficult. And it was a little bit different of the way that the architect worked. So we were all working together, and we made it work. And we are making it work, and it will be installed in August. And so all the while we're still trying to do furniture. So there's, there's that part of it too, which, you know, the the architect and the builder aren't thinking of that. So we're just trying to get our client to sign off on all of that with our budgetary concerns with that, too.
Mark D. Williams<br> 24:09
I mean, I think it's a little bit like a recipe, right? I mean, you don't dump in all 50 ingredients, right from the very beginning. I mean, it's a timing thing. Sometimes you have to wait till something's partly cooked. You have to, you know, wait till it stirred. I mean, I It's funny, because I'm talking about cooking, and I rarely do it. Yeah, I mean, I think it's an it is you can't do it. All right in the beginning and I I'm challenged all the time by some of my peers and people that I look up to that, you know, they won't start a project till it's 100% designed and selected. And I think it's admirable and I certainly try and I've been trying to do that to the best of our ability. But, you know, to your point, it's a long process, you know, some of these homes, you know, 10,000 square foot house, you know, might be a year and a half, two years to build depending on you know, its complexity and details in your past. I mean, I'm guessing you've done it every single scenario. Meaning I bet You've done selections while you're literally doing things for sure. For sure. I didn't know if that was just a Minnesota thing, or if that's a builder thing in general. Yeah, I guess any observations on that? Yeah. Because you do stuff out of state as well, right?
Speaker 1 25:12
Yes, absolutely. And, you know, a lot of times, it's what is it, appliances, plumbing, location of lighting, and materials, you know, get those things done at least the floor materials, and try to get that and then come back and refine the layers, yeah, the layers, and then countertop materials, and then cabinetry, so you know, we have our cadence, and that seems to work. But if it's, if we, if we're starting to do for the real specialty, prod product, or product, if we're doing, you know, slabs on walls and things like that, then we're starting to really refine things. And you know, we need to put those on hold. And if they're coming from, you know, Italy, or if they're coming in from, you know, South America, then we really need to figure out how many do we need, and there's just so many different layers, and there's 1000s of decisions, and we're here to make them. But we need to have the trust in the client. And if we're just starting to work with the client, we may not have that trust yet. And it just takes a while to build that.
Mark D. Williams<br> 26:22
Maybe this question would be better reframed. And if you were to advise your sister, and in are a close personal friend of how to go through the process to best utilize the architect, the builder and the designer, what are some general guidelines that you would give them? You know, given that you've worked with everyone, you know, you know, I know how I would view it from a builders point of view, but I'd be kind of curious to hear this from, you know, an interior designers point of view. Yeah,
Speaker 1 26:52
you know, I would, I guess I would hire everybody together, and have that, that group together, talk about the overall vision, and have them all agree upon it, you know, get get your budget is as, as close as you can. And, you know, see where your, your, your Wow, spots are, are the areas that you're really going to curate? And go from there, I think you could make your selections 80% of your selections, were your specialty spots? Is it the kitchen? Or is it going to be you know, your outside areas? Depending on where you live? Or? I guess you could do it here too. So I think that there's what kind of house is it? Is it? Is it your five year house? Or is it a, your your house for the rest of your life? Things like that. So I think there's a lot of things that can be put into that question. It's a very large question. But I would say if you could do the 8020 rule, I think that would be great. No,
Mark D. Williams<br> 27:55
I completely agree with you. I think having the team altogether, it's something we've done now for years. And it's crazy that you would not do that. And I just think it also, you know, client experience is something that I'm going to be spending a lot more time over the next really six months to a year really focusing to develop like a prescriptive method. Absolutely. What a client experiences. And, you know, I think in the past, you know, just having good role models around me, I mean, there's certain things you just do organically, and I'm not saying everyone can follow, you know, I mean, if everyone could just follow a recipe and be the world's best cook, then you'd have a bunch of people that are the world's best cook. So clearly, there must be some art in what you're doing. Right? I'm gonna have to take a cooking class after this, cuz I'm talking a lot about things I don't know. But anyway, that where I'm going with this is, I we do a lot of things for clients. You know, for me, I one of my love languages, gift giving. And so I tend to like to surprise people, I like to give meaningful gifts. And because we don't take on a lot of clients, I like to as I get to know them, I like to, to enter their space a little bit and try to surprise him with something. It also takes a ton of energy. And sometimes people are hard to buy gifts for where I'm going with this is, you know, little touch points. It could be something simple. I was, you know, somewhere doesn't matter really where. And I was looking at something and some one of the people in the, in the, in the place came up to me and said, Sir, while you're waiting, could I get you an espresso? I'm like, I didn't really even want one. But I'm like, Yeah, I'll take one and the point at client service. And so I've been thinking about that, since that interaction. It's something super simple, right? It's happened to most people many times. But I've been thinking about like, why in building interior design and architecture? We do it in a lot of other ways, right? But could we actually have a recipe or a menu that we follow through and we'd maybe even share it with a client before we start use it as part of your sales like here is here is the map of success. Because we often do talk about you know, there, let's just talk about Minnesota specifically. There's a lot of good builders here. And depending on what tier you're at, and there's a lot of good interior designers. There's a lot of other architects so why are you choosing in my case, Marc Williams custom home Is the or Renee Keller. And ultimately it comes down to relationship and to the journey and who you trust and feel comfortable with. And if you can demonstrate to them, like, Hey, here's my prescriptive path of how I, you know, whether it's your bi weekly meetings or just explaining to them, really what you're doing for them, I think that would go a long way towards clients, quickly understanding who they want to work with. Yeah,
Speaker 1 30:23
people like to know what to expect. And, you know, we just had a meeting to about client experience in an internal process. And we just were talking about having the best client or client experience this year ever, and how to document that, how to let them know what to, you know what to expect. And it's always fun, right at the very beginning, but then there's that lull in the middle when we're documenting everything, which is super important. And we're hourly. And so they still get bills. And they're like, We haven't seen you, we're still getting bills, how, you know, this is frustrating. And at that time, we like to still be in contact with them saying, we are still documenting, you know, all of the tile, just to let them know, so they're not surprised by their their hourly billing during that time. But it is so important. If any of those things are not documented correctly, there could be a lot of problem at the end of the project. And
Mark D. Williams<br> 31:21
timing too, right? I mean, I've seen it before, where people wait till the end, builders are guilty of this all the time you hear about change orders. And you know, you know, there's online, you know, tracking systems that help us track these channels as best we can in the moment. But, for instance, we just had a design meeting before he came in with a client on a new build with the architect and the client left in for an hour after the client was gone, the interior designer stayed on and was chatting with the architect through details, those are billable hours, and they're really important hours, because a lot of the conversations that you and I can have not that we are afraid of what we would share in front of the client, but you know, you and I can really say share each other's opinion and just say, Hey, this is what I think would be best for the project. And I always tell my clients, you don't want a bunch of yes, people around you like I like people that will fight for their idea and their ideal because I feel like the project becomes better. And you know, sometimes it's okay to do that from the client, obviously, in a respectful way. But it's probably easier when the client isn't there seeing you know, people play tug of war right over, you know, you know, a stone mantel choice or, you know, you know, does the ceiling gonna be tng or is it going to be a shiplap? Right, you know, nickel gap. I mean, half the time, they don't even know what we're arguing about. And it's a really minor detail, but maybe you and I are passionate about it for different reasons.
Speaker 1 32:36
Right. So like you mean, exactly. And I think that you don't want to make them feel uncomfortable. At the same time, somebody had a vision and whether you know, the furniture needs that or the overall, you know, ceiling in the next room needs it, things like that. So we're or if it's just trying to keep within budget and having it look nice and clean, then that that's what we need. What are
Mark D. Williams<br> 32:57
some important things that you've learned, that you think are key to a client's experience being good.
Speaker 1 33:05
I would say having them come in see our space, show them how we like to work with our clients, we have a giant pinboard it's actually a wall behind us when you walk in you see your whole house. And so you know, sit down and we we have our space, we have a fireplace in our studio. So you can kind of see this is you know, the height that you would be at, it's not the same fireplace, no. But this is you know, get the feel of it. And this is what a 30 inch chandelier looks like, you know it's very, it's very full. So it's very, feels heavy. This is what a 24 inch chandelier looks like. But it's very, it's it's metal, and it feels very, very slim. This is a scan site that we usually use for this contact would go higher. This is the drapes that I usually do. But we put a little leading edge tape on it. This is what it looks like. This is what I mean. There's just so many examples like that. So that is an easy, one stop shop that we like to provide for our clients. Our clients are usually professionals that are busy, or that they don't enjoy doing this or building the home. That's not what they want to do all the time. But they do want it. And if you're there for, you know, a year and a half, two years, it really is helpful. So we try to keep regular meetings. And we try to have the decision makers all be there at all times. So if you're going to have a saying something we want you to be there, that is
Mark D. Williams<br> 34:32
excellent advice right there. i It's funny, because I have a client that we dealt with before. And the one of the decision makers was never at any of the meetings. And yet it was a little bit of the tail wagging the dog you'd have the next meeting in the plan would completely change. And we are saying Where's this coming from? Like, you know, when we're in the meeting, getting real time feedback, this is not what we're seeing. And then they explained that you know, so and so was influencing it and sometimes they're not even in your room. And it could be, really, it could be your your son and daughter, it could be, you know, my sister built the house in Tennessee and this, you know, she really thinks we should do this or, you know, obviously, as a professional, sometimes the most difficult client to work for is someone that also has a professional, you know, as a family member. However, I will say that a lot of times, they can actually be a big help, too. So I guess it depends, right? Yeah, I've had it before where someone else was like a builder. Like, no, that's exactly right. And they almost help you help guide the client when they you know, when they know what they're talking about. Yeah.
Speaker 1 35:32
And I think that's setting boundaries when you start working with your clients and parameters. And what we usually say is, once you start working with us, and you give us, you know, some of your ideas, and we start working with you, shut down your Pinterest board, stop looking, stop asking your where your where your team now. So ask us, you know, it's not like you can't ever look. But if, if you need help communicating something, or if you're not getting what you want, or we're not seeing it, then let's talk about it. But you need to, you need to ask, we're here to help you, you are our main Europe, you're our project, we need to get the right thing put in front of you.
Mark D. Williams<br> 36:14
Well, I think feedback, you know, instant feedback is super important. So in my haste and just trying to be efficient, you know, through the COVID years, you know, an architect would send us a plan, and they would say, Hey, this is kind of the latest update, you wanna take a look, do you have any comments? Do you have anything that you want to look at, and I'd be looked through it, and it's a, it's great, you know, knowing that the client is excited and anxious. And like, you know, let's send this on, and almost exclusively every single architect designer ever met with, and I understand why they want they said, Well, I'd like to meet with the client in person. And I used to not understand why, but now I do. Because seeing how you physically react physically, to the plants, like I can read it in your body language, your motion, your face, you know, all those things are super informative to me. But even more so to the architect, because now they are like, okay, this person is really passionate about this, what if it ends up just being emails and zoom is okay, and sometimes you just have to do it right, it is great, and that's fine. But man, there is nothing better than an in person meeting to really capture the excitement, or the disappointment to and those are equally as important because we need to know also what you don't want in your house.
Speaker 1 37:22
Right. Or if you like, we may know that there's that special piece that wanted to be in the entryway that, you know, was a Windsor bench that needed to be there. And now all of a sudden, there's, it's not gonna fit. There's a, you know, a wall that the knees just not big enough. And we'll be like, Man, it's not going to work.
Mark D. Williams<br> 37:42
We had a we had a client just actually recently, where the home is all designed and he tends to hold on to stuff. And he had a cabinet that he wanted for his office, and it didn't line up with the door. So he told my framer in the field to change the door from a three Oh door or to eight door to a to four to six door. Well, but then what he didn't realize is the architect rightly so had the door centered on the hallway. And so then once the framer changed it, he went back there. And he's like, why isn't that door obvious? Like, well, because you told, you know, and we told him about it ahead of time, right? Well, now, as it turned out, his wife is like, we're getting rid of that file cabinet. Because I want the door Saturday. So we had now we're changing it back to what it was before. But it's just more of a humorous point. Yes. You know, we have to educate them. And sometimes in this case, we told them, it's not going to be centered. He said, Do it anyway, then we did it. He's like, No, I guess I want it the other way. And luckily, it was only $1 bucks. So it's not that big of a deal. But anyway, and he got in trouble. And he got in trouble. At least at least the nurses was able to correct it. Because we were not. Oh,
Speaker 1 38:42
goodness. Yeah, there are. There are things like that. And people just need to make choices. And sometimes it takes a while to let go of things. And sometimes you just need to be okay with it. And doesn't matter. So, yeah, you are mediating some of these choices. And bottom line is it is their home, and you want it to feel like their home.
Mark D. Williams<br> 39:01
Do you find that? You know, how often do you have to remind yourself that, you know, this is their home, because there's some times where you feel like I have recently run into this where I felt very, very strongly. And I usually tell my client, like, you know, hey, if you want to purple polka dot house, like I will build it for you. I will tell you three, three times that it's a bad idea. But on the fourth time, that I'll do that I'm here to work for you. And if that's really what you want, we'll do it. And I finally had to put that theory to a test and it didn't end well. I basically had to just back off and say, Okay, I said, Do you want my opinion, or you just want me to do what you're telling me to do? And he said, I just want you to do what I'm telling you to do. Okay, that's as clear as it can be. And I've never actually had that clear before. In my 20 years of building have you run into situations quite like that? Yeah,
Speaker 1 39:47
I mean, there's some clients that are just strong willed and really want what they want. And I've had some thoughts and ideas about layouts and different rooms and scale and I have brought it up, and then I've let it go. And I've brought it up again. And then the third time is a charm. And I'm going to bring it up. This is my third time that I'm going to be bringing it up. And I guess we'll see. We got one coming up right now. Yep, yep. And it just is a my, my original thought process when I was looking at the room, and I guess we'll see. And if after that, I'll just let it go. It's interesting.
Mark D. Williams<br> 40:22
And maybe I should be more retrospective, or, you know, introspective, I guess is the right word for looking at if people are giving me advice, namely, probably my wife, I guess it's lifting, like you should listen to me the first time not the five times, but outside your spouse or relationships, I'm trying to think of like how often people get to go into your life and really tell you something, and I'm thinking it, let's say a personal trainer, I mean, if you hire a personal trainer, and you want to run, let's say a six minute mile drop 4% body fat, and you know, whatever your goals are, doesn't matter. But then if you don't listen to the personal trainer, like, why did you hire them. And so sometimes I get a little confused, and not that it's that black and white, but you know, they are hiring you and I to help them build their home. And you know, get in matters of style swim with the current in matters of principle stand like a rock, in sometimes there's if you get to this principle thing, and they think it's a style. And for you, it's a principle, it becomes kind of this rock and a hard place. And that's where I was with this particular client. And anyway, I lost. Yeah,
Speaker 1 41:22
absolutely. And, you know, not every project is going to be and photographable or not, every angle will be photographable. And, for me, I don't do the same type of home all the time. I like, I like variety. And I love to know that every client is happy in all of my photos. I like a certain style myself. And that could never be replicated by anybody else in another home. There's there's reasons for why things are where they're at. I mean, I could tell a story by each, you know, portfolio picture that I have on the website. And that's kind of what the joy is for me is I can say, oh, this person just does not like to see any clutter anywhere. And I could never be that person, of course, because I am a little bit more of a curated person having things out. And a little bit of a mess too sometimes. So to be honest, so I'd have to quit cleaned up before.
Mark D. Williams<br> 42:27
You know what's funny about that is the people that can really that are that are very, you know, OCD and very great at keeping minimal, you know, they're the ones that could have the shelves at the floating shelves, everything organized. They don't want it. Because to them. That's color. I know, because I'm married to one my wife has very, very, you know, great lines kind of got a Japanese Scandinavian style, which I love. But it's funny all our none of our cabinets have glass in them, you know, she wants to she wants it put away even though behind our cupboards it's as organized as could be. I just find it kind of ironic that the people that could pull it off, don't want it.
Speaker 1 43:03
They're like scared to like, if something was out of order, it would just bug them and they just can't deal with it.
Mark D. Williams<br> 43:09
Right. I mean, I appreciate people that are really, really organized. It's not my particular skill set, but I do admire it. And anyway, I think organic you know, something that's real, I think when things are real to your point, I like your word curated, I'm gonna have to use that for my style.
Speaker 1 43:24
Yeah, you know, I think different stages of life. Also, you know, when you have, you know, a multitude of kids, it's not possible, you're exhausted. And I used to blame a lot on that. But it still carries on for me. Oh, for older and I still can't use it, isn't it?
Mark D. Williams<br> 43:41
One of the things that I had a question on was you had mentioned earlier about, you know, you know, helping the client decisions experience, how do you as a designer handle sign offs? And, you know, as a builder, I met him and you work. So I work with a handful of designers. And as the builder, it seems like designers often gravitate towards the builders process. But you worked with at this point, probably 100 builders, do you? What part of your process can you keep the same versus having to morph to every builders process, walk me through a little bit about how you do sign offs, decision making, and how you integrate with builders that do things differently than you.
Speaker 1 44:23
What we do is we usually have our finished schedule. And we used to say whatever you want, you know, Mark Williams Building, we'll we'll get our all of our selections and put it into your Excel spreadsheet or your builder trend or whatever. And we found that that doesn't work, because it's all different. And ultimately, it seems like the project manager or the supervisor wants to take our information and input it themselves which makes perfect sense. So we've just kept our our plumbing specs in our finish. schedule, and all of those things in our own little system that we have, and then we just pass it on to the builder. And then if there were for approving cabinets, straight, you know, cabinet finishes, and then strike offs and things like that, we, we assign it and then we take a photo and send it to the builder. So those are all sign offs when the client has approved it. So it's pretty simple, actually. And by that time, where we have this great trust with the client, it's usually an email that says approved, we copy the client, and then we send it to the builder.
Mark D. Williams<br> 45:39
We have not had an issue that I can recall offhand. But I could anticipate there being an issue because you do get a high trust. And obviously, well, we all love emails, and we use them a lot, we probably use them too much. I mean, I, you know, I'm not that young anymore. I'm 43 now, and I still pick up the phone a lot. And you know, there's you can cover way more on the phone, or, shockingly in person, you know, there is no substitute for, in my opinion, the bi weekly meetings, absolutely, mostly for both for the client. But we're able to also regulate the client and ourselves. Because as we work with multiple projects, you know, having that couple hour meeting in person allows you to really not only show them that you care, but it really lets you get a feeling of things. And where I'm going with this as the sign offs that you know, and this is where I'm curious, like, sometimes it designers can send me something and saying it's signed off. Have you ever run into a scenario? Or heard of it where you know, someone says it's signed off, but a client says no, I didn't sign off on that. And you know, ultimately, our job, you know, as the owners of the company is we have to defuse the situation. In some ways, it doesn't matter if it's been signed off or not. Now, at this point, now we have a client who's unhappy. And regardless of what happened, whether the process is broken out, and honestly, sometimes even if the client is the one that made the issue, you and I still have to figure out a way to solve it. Right? I mean, do you have any examples that kind of come to mind on that? Yeah, no,
Speaker 1 46:59
we haven't ever had that. Usually, when it's, you know, the client is saying, or the drawdown signed off on, we say, No, this one needs a little tweaking, but xy and z is, so we're gonna send back this one, we need another option. And then we, you know, we kind of, we say approved. And then like I said, copy the client, copy the builder and the architect, and we go from there. So it is documented that way, there are a lot of emails, we do try to, you know, put it all together in one email of approved items. So there's not too many. But when you do have homes this large, it's hard, but it's part of the process. And that is where my project manager is very good at communicating, filing all the information electronically. And just getting all this done in a real clear way. Which I am not the best at I'm better at other things. And so that's why we work so well together
Mark D. Williams<br> 47:56
having the right team I was looking so your team of five, I was looking on your website, and I have to commend you for your title making the use you have the money maestro, you have you have the captain and you have the brand warrior to name a few. And I was like I was chuckling because I'm like, well done. Those are great names that convey what they are, but also highlight a sense of humor, which I appreciate.
Speaker 1 48:16
Yeah, it mean it's, it's great. I mean, we like to have fun. And we we all have our talents for sure. I love to meet in person. I love meeting with the clients I love. I love that and Luann my project manager, she is great at communicating and organizing and just getting the details on paper and ready to roll. She's great. But that
Mark D. Williams<br> 48:40
would you say you kind of take the visionary seat? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 48:43
Yeah. So it's it's ying and yang there with them. Yeah, she's my integrator for sure.
Mark D. Williams<br> 48:47
Yeah. That's wonderful. What one of the things you had mentioned was, you know, elevating this experience and you had highlighted this concept of always sourcing. You know, I know there's high point and these different showrooms already talked about, you know, going to, you know, the house of Ro And you know, signature tall Tell me a little bit about what is always sourcing look like on a day to day, week to week basis. And how does it help you?
Speaker 1 49:13
Oh, I was sourcing so fun. I would say with Instagram, there's so many more options to see and find artists, things like that. Also, we were in Chicago in November and going to go to read was one of my favorite places I've loved forever and we bought a few pieces and brought them into our studio. It's a antique Asian showroom. That is spectacular. So that was exciting. And I just makes it just excites me so much. And just, they are wonderful to work with. I highly recommend them. We're heading to Charleston in April. And so we are going to do I just scour Charleston which is so fun I was there a couple years ago and just was so impressed with everything there and I just I think my heart belongs in South Carolina myself.
Mark D. Williams<br> 50:09
That's high point right?
Speaker 1 50:10
I know this North Carolina North Carolina. Charleston is closer to Savannah so just ended up at Charleston is just full of, you know, antiques, but just like urban electric as they are, we're going to tour urban electric, their warehouse and that's where they're out of, which is a great place to spec lights. And just fantastic. So I'm so excited just to experience and look at all the architecture and so that I mean there's you can source anywhere. So it's just so fun to be able to now at the time of my life, my our kids are a little older, and so they're not needing me as much and I'm able to work more and work for the business and have it grow. And now's the time and be able to also travel and seek some more things. We were in Italy this past April. And just just obviously beautiful thing for work or for play. We were seeing my daughter was studying there for a semester so we went over to see her and you know, combined it into a vacation whereabouts in Italy where she she was in Florence and we we kind of hit Tuscany, Luca and went up to Venice and then como
Mark D. Williams<br> 51:22
that's nice here in the north part i My brother in law, had graduated from college and our gift to him was he could go anywhere in the world he wanted for 10 days, but I'm taking him and so he picked Italy at the same time. We were there in May. A month after you
Speaker 1 51:36
Yeah, we went. I think we came back may 6.
Mark D. Williams<br> 51:40
Okay. Yeah. And that's when we left. Oh, wonderful to take team. Yeah, we went to Rome and then we're down in Sorrento and Amalfi Coast in that area. And I happen to just love Italy. My wife and I are both trail runners. So actually our 10 year 10 year anniversary, well, actually, it was this last year, but I think we're gonna do it. And at 11 The plan is to go and do a trail run over there. And you can kind of go in the northern northern part of Italy, like the Dolomites where you kind of just north of Lake Garda and como eautiful. Yeah,
Speaker 1 52:07
it was wonderful. And I had been before we went to Rome, maybe 15 years ago, and then I was lucky enough to go to Italy when I was 16. And so it's fun to kind of see how different Lee looks when I'm not 16 Isn't that
Mark D. Williams<br> 52:23
inspiring, though, when you when you go to I mean, that's what I love about travel, not only, you talked a lot about sourcing and, and kind of learning and you know, evolving, and you know, let's say staying fresh and design, I find that every time you kind of get out of the grind, not even if it's not architectural, but this case, Italy is so full of architecture. And while we don't certainly build or I haven't built any, you know, really horrible ask style homes, it's thinking about how long things last is something that you cannot travel in Europe, and then come back here and look at the homes that we build, and we build gorgeous homes. And, you know, I think you know, with come stick frame. I mean, we're the best stick film framers in the world, in my opinion. But we also a lot of our families only think about things, you know, for the time that they're in it. And you know, they look at things a lot differently, like generations of longevity. And so I'm really impressed. And like Trevi Fountain, you know, you're just walking through eating some gelato, and you're like, Oh, I think that's the most famous font in the world. And sure enough, you do a Google search and you like, yeah, there's a reason there's 500 People now, literally 1000 people, you know, taking pictures of this place, and you're like, where in the United States? Do we have something like that? Now we have different things like our natural beauty is maybe unsurpassed. I mean, the diversity in the United States is pretty incredible. But I always come back leaving super inspired to kind of level up my game in terms of architecture and things that I want to do. Do you feel that as well, I
Speaker 1 53:44
do. And I actually feel a little bit more relaxed about using materials. Our last night there, we stayed in Florence. And we actually stayed in Florence for maybe a total of eight days. And we almost felt like locals and we knew you just familiar places. And we walked through a square and there were bronze greyhounds, and the way they were, they was just beautiful. They're huge. And we went to this little restaurant and it was spectacular. Outside was perfect weather. I'm like, I'm gonna hit I'm gonna go to the bathroom. And when the restroom, it was the most spectacular bathroom I've ever been in. So I'm in there just taking pictures and things like that. And it was just like a raw rock, you know, trough and then they had a chandelier that wasn't centered and this just gaudy mirror and it was just spectacular. And I just thought you know, in the way they did it, it was beautiful. And was it perfect? No, but it was my favorite, you know, bathroom I've ever seen in my life. So it just gave me permission to think outside of the box. Look at textures and materials and I do think there's a place for me I'd made materials of course, but I am a lover of natural materials and in that includes, you know, nonperformance fabrics such as cotton, linen, wool, there's really nothing like them. And in my heart, I think that's where I would be. But my clients don't always need that either. So I do need to be able to be knowledgeable about things like performance fabrics, and you know, all of the, you know, the, the Cambridges of the world and things like that. So could there is a need for those also. But just in my heart, I was just like, yeah, that's where it's at. Me personally. So I mean, there's, there's just different thoughts on all of those things. But when I left, I just was like, that's kind of stuffs been around for a long time. I mean, it fits
Mark D. Williams<br> 55:44
with your earlier comment about, you know, the curated, you know, design that you even feel passionate about. I mean, there's something about organics that are warm and inviting, and, you know, kind of permission to fail. And I think this was I was gonna actually talk about this at the beginning, but now's a great time to bring it up. I think you have other than maybe Nikes just do it. I think you probably have one of the best bumper sticker slogans of all time, so maybe I won't ruin it. Why don't you tell the audience? I think this is my favorite motto.
Speaker 1 56:14
It is burn the candles use the China. I love it.
Mark D. Williams<br> 56:17
I mean, that says everything you need to know about Rene Keller, as well as your design style. I mean, you just spoke to about how much that bathroom in Italy because it wasn't perfect. It was organic. And I can I'm already picturing, you know, what it must have felt like and what the materials are, but it really is summed up perfectly in that quote, yeah,
Speaker 1 56:35
yeah, it isn't perfect. And it just, it's natural, and it just feels good. And I think if you are if you like something, if you're passionate about something, use it. It doesn't have to be grandma's whole set. It can be just the saucers. Or if it's a saucer for your basil plant, and it was a favorite plate that you know, your, your husband had or something as a child, or maybe it was the one that you set up for Christmas cookies or something. I don't know. But it's just it's just amazing. I think making an experience out of everyday dinner, burning those candles. And by the way, I did bring you a candle. Oh, yes.
Mark D. Williams<br> 57:13
I'll burn it. Yes, my wife burns a candle every single night. And I know except to blow it out every single night her house is gonna burn out every single time I come home from like, running or hockey or some late night sport and I'm like, she'll be asleep and there'll be a candle burning. I'm like, what if I didn't come home now? It's fine. It's the middle of the table. It's fine.
Speaker 1 57:29
Maybe she thinks that if you're going to be sweaty or the kids are going to be sweating. You might smell
Mark D. Williams<br> 57:34
Yeah, I'm just fine. Our house is not burned down yet because I'm an avid, you know, blower out of candles, I guess. But it's funny because there was we stayed at a place in Oregon years ago. And she I forget what kind of her core belief was, but I've never seen a house with this many candles. Honestly, I was shocked that the house is still standing. But she probably had 100 candles. She lit them every single night. It was beautiful. And it was a bit kind of a sprawling open house. And then when she left all the melted wax, she had big trays, and she would have all these candles kind of just, you know, kind of clumped together, but it had this incredible, earthy vibe that I'm guessing you would love. I know I loved it. I was like this is unique. I have never taken candle burning to this level before. But it'd be right up your alley. Yeah,
Speaker 1 58:21
I just think it feels good. It's warm. It's sensual. And I think smell has a lot to do with it. I'm excited. We are coming out with a candle line. So are you really Yeah, yeah, this is perfect. Yeah.
Mark D. Williams<br> 58:34
Are you gonna come up with a China line next,
Speaker 1 58:35
maybe that I never thought of that maybe what you've never thought of they have never thought of that. So
Mark D. Williams<br> 58:41
let me know if you need a consultant on that. But you definitely need a China ally. When you hand out a china dish and a custom candle to every client. This
Speaker 1 58:50
guy just gives lots of ideas. Never stop marketing. Just go with.
Mark D. Williams<br> 58:54
I love that idea. One of the things you mean, you really highlighted here at the end that I think is really important. And something that I certainly gravitate towards is, you know, as a builder, and as a designer, and really being the home space. It's so personal. It's so emotional. And sometimes, you know, on the podcast, we talked about some of the negative I mean, it's in the sense that like being an entrepreneur, like it's hard, like running a business is really hard. And that's take that aside. It's really rewarding when you can deliver a house that that's where they raise their family, they have probably the biggest moments of their life is in this home creating lifestyle memories. And I love kind of kind of the ethos of who you are as a designer is we're this is not our home, we're gonna leave a part of ourselves in your home. But we really want this to be a home that has a story to tell. And I think the homes that I'm most attracted to when I go to them is not the ones that are the most beautiful or the most perfect, like you already talked about, but it's the ones that have a story. I don't know I guess it'd be really interesting to sort of reframe home construction architecture in in the sense of like a What's what is the story we're trying to tell? And how is the client and all of us a part of that story? Yeah,
Speaker 1 1:00:06
and I think, making sure that it feels like the clients when you walk in, whether it's the front door, or the mudroom, or there's that secret room that, you know, Grandpa can, you know, fiddle around with whatever, or the train sets there, that always comes out at Christmas time. And, you know, maybe it's an easy storage area, so they don't have to, you know, recreate it and fold it up, and it takes four hours, you know, maybe it's an easy in and out, you know, just creating simple things like that. So their life is easier, and they don't have time to do that, or they don't want to do that. So just trying to make life a little easier step by step, and, you know, keep their artwork up, maybe their artwork needs reframing, or maybe it's close to a window, and they don't want it to fade. So we'll put museum glass on it, there are definitely things that we can do and suggest and embrace with them. And so, you know, we've, we've reframed, you know, dog, whether they call collars, yeah, dog collars, if if a dog's passed away, and, you know, made a collage of things like that we just hung pictures last week of Henry, that dog that passed away, and we, you know, it was very sad. And in little kids are at work, and now they're 16 years old, and it's wonderful. So we just really try to listen to our clients and make their house theirs. And we just love to be invited back for coffee or drinks or anything like that, or the next round of design.
Mark D. Williams<br> 1:01:40
I feel like being an interior designer. To me, it's one of the more glamorous parts of building because you get to be kind of like, you know, the fun squad, I think because it like, you know, if you have you know, I remember even looking back early, early on my career, 20 years ago, you know, you build a house, and I just take photos of the house before there's any furniture in it. Now, it seems crazy that I did that it was just an empty shell. It was nothing. It was like, you know, it'd be like giving someone a cardboard box for Christmas. I mean, there's no character, there's no love. There's nothing that man did. I did not know what I was doing. And, but, but I feel like the designers that add the color, and I've had earlier on in my career, I had clients that would say, you know, we don't want to pay for an interior designer. And I said that's, you know, now in my career, I won't even do a job without one. For two reasons. Well, actually, there's multitude of reasons, but kind of the top primary ones is this not going to be the right clientele, because they're not going to appreciate really all the other things that we're doing for them as well. But also, I feel like the interior designer may be better than anyone else really has a pulse on the client's temperature. And what I mean by that is, I love it when my clients will give me everyone my interior designers will maybe give me a call or send me a text being like, you know, you know, Shelley or Sarah, whoever, I think they need an extra reach out, or I think that you know, something's going on, you know, they need a little extra attention, or, you know, this came up, I feel like your industry and you specifically have such a great attention to how the client is feeling that sometimes because the end, because the build process is long, right? Sometimes it's a year, two years long. I mean, it's hard to have your tenants up all the time. And so as a team collectively, I feel like the I found great value in the interior designers sort of fulfilling that for me specifically.
Speaker 1 1:03:26
Absolutely. It's part of the teamwork. I think the collaborating and even usually, the architect has that that first role. It seems like even though we're all part of the team, it seems like whenever the interior design comes, or Interior Designer comes in a little later, we're always trying to play catch up. And we didn't quite know about that first scheme and things like that. And then we suggest the first game and they're like, Oh, we already thought of that. And you're like, Oh, well, thanks for telling me. So it's it's best if we all come in together. And it may seem wasteful for all of us to be around the table together. But it's really not. It's actually more efficient. And we are all like gathering information all at the same time. And we can hit the ground running.
Mark D. Williams<br> 1:04:07
I 100% agree. For those that would like to reach out to you. What are the best platforms for them to get in contact with you either to just network have a cup of coffee with you or you know, to hire your services? And and, you know, find out what you do?
Speaker 1 1:04:21
Yeah, I would say either Instagram which is Rene Keller interior design, or our website, which is Renee keller.com. And Renee spelled r e n e. And yeah, that would be wonderful. So either DM me or go to our website and hit the Submit Form.
Mark D. Williams<br> 1:04:37
Perfect. We'll have everything in the show notes. And Rene, thank you very much for coming on the podcast and I appreciate it. We'll see you around town. Thanks so much. Very good. Thanks for joining in
This episode is sponsored by:
