Episode 78 - Levity and Lessons: Building Authenticity in Podcasting and Construction with the Levelheads
Episode #78 | The Levelheads | Building Authenticity in Podcasting and Construction
In this fun and insightful episode of "The Curious Builder," host Mark Williams chats with Jamie Verdura, Mike Connelly, and Zane Ellis about the ups and downs of podcasting, the state of the construction market, and the importance of being genuine and relatable. The group shares laughs over past bloopers, their evolution in interviewing techniques, and the joys and challenges of securing sponsors. With a mix of humor and heartfelt advice, they explore future plans, including on-site recordings at big events and the potential for a live tour!
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About the Levelheads
Micheal Conneely is a custom home builder and developer with over 30 years of experience in all facets of the trade. He is co-owner of Greenside Design Build and builds "top of the market" homes in the western suburbs of Chicago and beyond. He is co-host of The Levelheads Podcast, member of a NAHB Builder 20 Group and a certified PHIUS Builder.
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Mark Williams :
Welcome to the curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today, I am joined by the level heads podcast. I've got Mike Conley and Zane Ellis and Jamie verdura. Welcome guys.
Micheal Conneely 0:09
How you doing? Oh, thanks
jamie verdura 0:10
for having us.
Mark Williams 0:12
All right. You guys are from all over the country. We we share a producer for our podcast. Shout out to Doug from motif media, great, great. Dougie, why don't you guys each give a quick brief intro of who you are as builders. And I think on this episode, for those listening, we are not going to dive into the builder BIOS like we would on our normal podcast. I think we're going to talk mainly about essentially podcasting like, why is there so many construction podcasts? What is the benefit? What have we each found in our platforms? And then I thought this was a unique opportunity. Since we're all over the country, we've got California, Chicago and Tennessee and Minnesota represented, I thought there'd be a good chance to kind of check in see how everyone's doing across the country. I thought we'd talk a little bit about CBSA. They're coming here to Minneapolis for the summit. I want to kind of see how many of you guys are involved in your local markets, and then we'll maybe address a few questions that I get from the audience, and then we'll just kind of see where it goes from there. So without further ado, Mike, why don't you knock us off and tell us who you are, where you build, and just a little quick 32nd overview,
Micheal Conneely 1:13
sure. Sure. Name is Mike Connolly. I am co owner of Greenside design build. We are a custom home builder in the western suburbs of Chicago, primarily focused on high end residential we're trying to stay at the top of the market here, primarily build in a town called Hinsdale and surrounding towns that are fairly affluent. Been in this business all my life. Grew up in the business. My father was a builder, developer, so I, I've been on job sites since I was knee high to a grasshopper. And unfortunately, I know nothing else. I don't even know how to podcast, even though we have this podcast. But that's,
Mark Williams 1:57
that's the that's the secret. That's the secret ingredient, by the way,
Micheal Conneely 2:01
to know nothing. Well, then I'm all set. Yeah, we're real
Mark Williams 2:07
Perfect. All right, what you got? Zane,
Zane 2:10
I'm Zane Ellis in Knoxville, Tennessee. I own collective build company. Just a couple of weeks ago, I announced on the podcast that I am not going to be building anymore, so I'm Yeah, did you miss that mark?
Mark Williams 2:26
I did. It's funny. You said that in preparing for the show, I had it downloaded. I got busy today, and it was like, the title was like, Zane dives deep and opens up. And I was like, Ooh, that's a juicy one. And then I got distracted. Evidently, that was the episode.
Zane 2:37
That was the episode. It was the episode. So if you haven't heard it, go listen to it, and we talk about my crazy story. And let's see, I enjoy long walks on the build site. And no, I do window and door sales now, and I've been doing that for about three weeks.
Mark Williams 3:03
That would explain, by the way, I thought maybe you had switched over to Delta because I checked your website and it's down, just like the rest of airline travel. But that makes more sense. If you shut down your building company, why it's down? Yeah,
Zane 3:14
it's down. We kept getting a lot of calls for customs, and we just, we just shut it down
Mark Williams 3:19
401, file not found. Okay, that makes a lot of sense now,
Zane 3:23
yep, yep. So now you know, so if anybody's searching for me and I'm not found, then that's the case. But you can find me on it. This Instagram is still up. You can still find this on the Instagram, and you can find me on my personal Instagram. It's just my name, Zane Ellis. I got into building because I was a fourth generation builder, I tried to get out of it. Tried, tried several different things, but mostly tried to be a rock star that that clearly didn't work out and yeah, that that put me into building. I just couldn't get away from it. And now here I am just talking about so, yeah, love it. Love it. Good.
Mark Williams 4:01
Intro. How about what you got? Jamie, I'm
jamie verdura 4:05
Jamie. I'm the owner of verdura construction. Excuse me, I am out in Half Moon Bay, California, which is a suburb about 30 minutes south of San Francisco. I've been building since I was 20. So it's about 2025, 26 years in the trades. We are high end residential custom home builder. We are, appears to be an anomaly in the trades. We are a self performing contractor. So I run a staff between office and field mechanics of just under 40. So we're a decent sized outfit several projects mainly focused on the coast. So a lot of coastal building, Ocean View stuff like that hillside builds out here in California. And, yeah, we just get up and hit it hard every day. Man, we're gonna
Mark Williams 4:52
that sounds really interesting a lot. We won't have time to dive into that operational quagmire. That does sound like quite a lot of work. I think. If you stress today, I think you stress. Zane out. I think Zane just listened to you talk about how you ran that business, like I'm out. I don't want to go down this road. You
Unknown Speaker 5:06
need some windows. Jay,
Mark Williams 5:07
well, let's talk a little bit. Let's talk. Let's talk about, let's talk about the podcast. So you guys started the level heads. I know a little bit of the story. You guys are all in the same builder 20 group. Is that right?
Micheal Conneely 5:19
Yep. And that's how it got started. So we had been to a few meetings, and as as you would do for any builder 20 meeting, at least as we do after the meeting was over for the day, we head to the bar for a few cocktails and a night gap. And we had a few too many one night, and Zane came up with the idea that we should start a podcast, which we thought it was the best idea since sliced bread. So that's how the podcast was born.
Zane 5:55
They actually, they actually kicked us out of the bar. Mike took the bottle with him. Didn't you buy the bottle, the rest of the bottle?
Micheal Conneely 6:05
I can't remember, I don't know remember,
Zane 6:08
but we took the bottle with us and our glasses with us, and we sat in the hotel lobby instead of the hotel bar.
jamie verdura 6:16
So like all good ideas, the podcast was born in the
Mark Williams 6:20
drunkenness. Stay classy. Were you like, Were you guys, like, sitting there writing out your, you know, like your audience and like your topics, or like, how far down the wormhole did you go? Or did you guys,
jamie verdura 6:31
we haven't yet?
Zane 6:34
Yeah, that's, is that something you do? Mark? I
Mark Williams 6:38
mean, yeah, no, I thought I won. I thought I was a winger. You guys, you guys are taking it to a whole new level.
Micheal Conneely 6:44
We did say, we did say, you know, if a year, if we work really hard and concentrate on this podcast, about a year into the podcast, we're going to hit it big, and we're going to be invited onto the curious builders podcast as guests. And here we
Mark Williams 6:57
and look where we are amazing. Your, your the culmination of your entire podcasting career has now been achieved. Yeah, that's Yeah, nothing but downhill flooding from here
Zane 7:13
is the limit. What So walk us through?
Mark Williams 7:15
I think one of the things that might be interesting before we kind of get into the nitty gritty, well, actually, before we do that, because I do that, because I do think we've never talked about on the podcast, and I think a lot of people are always interested in ask us, you know, when we go on the podcast, or I go on the podcast, people ask how you start? And we obviously, you know, that's the kind of the humorous side, but the logistics of it, I think a lot of people might be interested to know, like, I assume you and I have even handled it differently, and understanding that there's really no for sure blueprint on how to do this. Everyone has their own style, in their own way, and so maybe we'll talk a little bit about that. But why don't we talk a little bit about your audience? Because we have similar across over an audience that you obviously, you know, given your wealth of knowledge, and you build beautiful homes. Who do you find is your listeners and who have been some of your the people that you like to bring on the show? And I guess, give us a little bit of what your formula is for when you interview people. Sure,
Zane 8:06
well, you can gotten my, I mean, we've gotten kind of a mix. I think, don't you guys have audience wise? I mean, we have, yeah, our clients might. Some of my former clients Listen, some of my friends listen. It's really, you know, when we set out to do it, I actually, I mean, I did have a goal in mind. I didn't, you know, I mean, hell, when I started my business, I didn't have a five year plan. I was just like, I'm going to start a business and building. And I went out and I built a spec. And then, you know, it just started from there, and there we went. So we I just kind of started the podcast in the same way I found a podcast streaming, you know, platform, and decided which one that looked best, and figured out how to get it up on the internet. And as far as audience goes, I was just going for I was going for builders that weren't interested in another just run of the mill podcast where we just give you, you know, here's eight ways to value engineer your project, you know, and go through those eight things. I kind of wanted to to just be fly from the seat of your pants with let our three personalities, I really wanted to capture that bar moment, like every single week, and I felt like that would be entertaining. So if we could capture what happened in Milwaukee, in that hotel lobby, you know, Matt, Matt, Mike's got his hat turned backwards. He's got a glass of he's got his 50th glass of bourbon in his hand and forgot what Jamie was drinking, but probably a, probably a tequila and soda and lime, and I'm, I'm sitting there with the the bottle of bourbon, and we're all just shooting from the hip, you know? So I. That's what we Yeah,
Micheal Conneely 10:01
to to repeat kind of what he said. We didn't want it to be the typical construction podcast, even though the three of us are builders and in the construction industry, we didn't want to just straight construction talk. We wanted to have some real, real chit chat, some kind of behind the scenes. You know, perfect example, Zane had an episode where he kind of opened up and gave his whole personal story, right? That has nothing to do with construction, right? We just wanted to be somewhat personal, tell some real stories, kind of just buddy's talking, right? Because that's exactly what it is. And you know, you there's the Joe Rogan podcast, right? The probably the most popular podcast out there, and that's what his podcast is. A lot of is just back and forth, regular conversation. And people are drawn to that, and that's something we wanted to capture some of that. We still wanted to bring construction into it. Obviously, that's what pulls us together. But we wanted to have that kind of normal conversation, not be so stringent. Definitely try and be comedic. Have some humor in there, because this business is stressful enough. You need to some kind of an outlet to laugh and make fun of each other. And I think that's kind of the direction we go in. We do our main fan base, I think, is our people in the trades and our clients. So we do capture that, but there's the few outliers from that that do listen. You know, I've been stopped in the I've been stopped on the road and in a red light, someone rolls down the window. Hey, I listened to the podcast, which I can't believe that that happens, right? I'm like, Well, what's your problem why you listen to our stupid podcast?
Mark Williams 11:42
Like, did the restraining order come in?
Micheal Conneely 11:47
Which, honestly, it's encouraging to hear things like that, because at least you know you're not just talking to the to the wind. But
Mark Williams 11:54
I mean, I you know, ours is quite different. We can contrast and compare a little bit, but some of the things that resonated with me, even being a guest on your show, well, maybe a month ago, is, you know, the humor side of it. I love humor, and I try to inject humor into most conversations, even when it's not appropriate, just because I think, if nothing else, you can laugh a little bit it, you know, lightens the mood. And there's a lot of humor in life. And I do, I like, you know, Zane, what you shared that really from the beginning, that moment, I mean, has really kind of been a common thread from the first time. It was born in the bar of just casual, you know, levity. But you can obviously have deep conversations too, which you clearly do. And so I, I would imagine that people sort of appreciate that. And, you know, I guess comparing it the to the curious builder, I don't personally ever feel like I have a lot of information to share as an expert. Someone said the other day, you can choose to be an expert or you can choose to be a guide. And this was a very well known public speaker. I sat down with him for coffee and I said, you know, when I started the podcast, I, you know, I don't have any media training. I don't have any sort of broadcasting training. And I think that's obviously what appeals to people, because you're just, you're talking like a normal human being. And obviously we use building in business as a background of things we want to talk about, and maybe break down some of the walls and kind of get real with people. And but that's the information that he shared with me. He said, Do you want to be the guide, or you do want to be the expert? And I personally am not an expert. That's not my skill set. That's not really what I'm interested in. I would much rather try to get a bunch of people together. And, you know, I guess if I'm guiding the conversation in that analogy, I fully embody that for myself. And, you know, I look at our peers that are so much more knowledgeable. I mean, obviously a friend of the podcast for both of us, you know, like Nick schifr. I mean, that guy is going to know more about building a home than I'll ever know in my life, and he loves it, you know, people that really get into the weeds and details. And I think if anyone's going to start a podcast. I think the biggest thing that I've learned in my two years already is just be authentic, be yourself. And you know, the people that want to listen to you will, and they'll tune into you and your guests and and if you try to be somebody you're not, it's going to fall pretty bad. It's going to fall pretty flat. So I don't know, do you do think? Do you resonate with that? I
Zane 13:58
feel like we've done that. Yeah, I feel like we've all done that. I mean, it reminds me, was it last week, Jamie rolled in late with in the middle of the Brad Leavitt episode. He rolls in, he's like, what's up?
Mark Williams 14:16
Brad lost it laughing
Zane 14:17
middle of the podcast. And we're like, Yep, that's it. And, I mean, yeah, I wouldn't have it any other way. I mean, this is, that's exactly what would happen in a room if Jamie just walked up and, and, you know, the three of us were sitting there talking, although,
Mark Williams 14:33
be fair, to be fair to Jamie. He was the first one on this video chat, which as Vegas odds would have it. I mean, someone just made like, a billion dollars. Yeah, there was, like, one and, you know, 3 trillion the odds of him showing up. But, you know, his wife put $100 on him, and she's, she's making out, like, bank,
jamie verdura 14:50
that's it. We're retiring.
Mark Williams 14:52
That's, that's pretty funny. How, um, what do you have? I just got a you mentioned Mike about someone pulling over. Or, you know, mentioning like, Hey, I listened to you. It is sort of interesting when people will bring up things that you've shared, that you've sort of forgotten, and they'll say, Hey, thank you. Like, I was on a recent podcast, and they reached out to me in just a DM on Instagram, and their comment was a little bit about this being authentic. They said, Thank you for sharing that story where you failed. I really resonated that, you know, maybe an Instagram or whatever. We obviously our websites, we put our best foot forward. But I think one thing that podcasting in general does very, very well is is allow people to break down those, those walls and sort of that media perception that we all portray for good or for bad. And there's a place for, obviously, marketing. It's not like you're gonna take a front page, you know, and like, showcase your worst job that's ever happened. You're going to showcase your best work because you want to attract it. But I think, I think podcasting gets real and it connects with people emotionally, and I think that's what connects people to a show. So, Zane, I bet, I bet you got a ton of support after your episode where you kind of opened up. And it makes, honestly, it makes me really interested to go listen to it, because that is the kind of things as humans we really try to, we sort of latch on to and relate. What other stories have you guys experienced where people have reached out to you kind of in that vein?
jamie verdura 16:10
Well, my clients are, well, we had them on the podcast. Actually. They're Aaron this week, I think today, yeah. But anyways, they're, they're great clients, and we became good friends, but they're religious podcast listeners, and they love these guys, and they know that they're going to be out in California for the builder 20 coming up next month. Excuse me, and they've invited the guys to dinner. They all stay in, you know, they actually reached out to me and to say, hey, we had no idea about Zane, and we're asking our doctor buddies here about, you know, everything. And it's just nice to hear that they're thinking of the guys. So they definitely feel like they're getting to know the guys, which is kind of neat.
Zane 16:51
Yeah, yeah, I would say the same thing. I've had some former clients listen and and they, they didn't just listen to, you know, episodes while we were building the house. Now they, I mean, they keep listening to the podcast. So they it feels like they if people always say, it feels like they know us when they talk to me. So, you know, when somebody writes me a message about the podcast or whatever, you know, I've gotten a lot of messages about the one, you know, one a couple weeks ago, but people writing and saying, like, Hey, man, it feels like I know you, you know, we listen to the podcast and we just feel like we feel like we really know who you are. And I think to me, that says that was the goal, you know, the goal is, is to put yourself out there and us to be, you know, authentically ourselves. And
Mark Williams 17:37
how long have you guys had your podcast?
Micheal Conneely 17:42
I think, yeah, year and a half, just shy of a year and a half.
Mark Williams 17:45
And did you start weekly right away, or were you bi weekly?
Micheal Conneely 17:48
We were, I mean, honestly, we're still all over the place. There's no we try to get it weekly. We go through good spurts, and then we'll go through a patch where we or we don't, we just get busy. So I think we were on 444, or 45 episodes in a year and a half weekly. Yeah, so it's kind of bi weekly, whatever. Yeah, I don't think our public misses us when they don't give us that week, at least we haven't heard but it's the fact that, the fact that we're still at it, I think, speaks volumes, and we're going to continue we enjoy it. And we do get people call and say, Hey, can I be a guest? Can I be a guest? And, you know, sometimes you have tons of guests, and then some, some periods of time you're looking for guests. I don't know if you experienced that. Maybe you're more popular, but professional than we are, but I
Mark Williams 18:39
think, Meryl, it's interesting. When I started, I was concerned about production, so you're going to appreciate this. So I was on, I was on Brad's podcast, AFD podcast, and now the Brad Levitt show. And I didn't realize I had never even listened to podcasts. You know, I was an audiobook guy, because I like a beginning and end podcast. For my addictive nature is a little daunting, because it's like, if I get into something, it's like, now do I have to listen to all the 200 previous episodes? I have a hard time starting fresh. I like to I like beginning and ends and so anyway, but anyway, 30 days later, you talk about having no plan. I had no plan. I mean, I was like, I'm doing this. It was so much fun. It was so enjoyable. I love talking. I didn't realize how much I loved listening to people's stories and resonating with them. And then, you know, I'm a little builder in Minnesota, you know, by comparison to a lot of the other builders that we have on, you know, I'm, I'm just a little popcorn shop, and yet, but somehow we're connected. I mean, here I am talking to three builders across the country now, and I never would have thought a couple years ago, why would I network, and why would I spend so much time with people that are all over the country, and it's amazing. I can't believe how narrow sided I was in thinking that way. And I feel like the podcast for me has just been like absolute jet fuel on my already, you know, pretty outward add, you know, energy levels. And so now, when I get to interview. People. I'm just jazzed. I'm so excited to, you know, meet people and hear the stories and talk about them, and do whatever I can to sort of, you know, shine a spotlight on them in that moment. But then it leads to these really neat relationships. Because when you see people at the builder show and you and then you start interacting with people on a regular basis, and all of a sudden, now you you have this commonality, maybe, of building, but you sort of develop this friendship, because people share things that are, you know, pretty deep and real, and so you you find the people that you really resonate with. And I think that's pretty special. I think that's really, you know, unique. And I, I really applaud our industry. Because you'd think, you know, the stereotype of being a builder is pretty you know, there's a lot of stereotypes, but, you know, being warm and fuzzy and really comfortable with our feelings is probably not the top of the stereotype for building. And yet, when you talk to builders, that's the thing that they really grab onto. It's like, oh, they can relate to me. I understand. And so I I really appreciate that. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 20:51
yeah. So
Micheal Conneely 20:52
when you started Mark, I think you mentioned this you were, most your guests were local, like, to your own. Yeah. Is that so kind of heavily,
Mark Williams 21:00
yeah, that's funny. I'm glad you brought that up. So what i i recorded 10 right away because I wanted, you know, 10 in the gun, if you will, of my giant revolver, evidently, that has 10 bullets, and I didn't want to run behind and so the problem was, is, as I started getting sponsors, and I had sponsors before I actually started the podcast, because I'm like, Well, everyone tells you you can't make money, and everyone tells you it's expensive. I'm like, Well, why am I doing all this if I can't at least cover my costs? So I went to my, you know, the people that I have been doing business with for 20 years, because I think that's what's unique about podcasting, is like, at least for my podcast, it's, you know, business owners, and we talk about business, we talk about life, we talk about their journey. But ultimately, my peers are my listeners. And it's sort of, it's a different dynamic, because it's not like I'm not selling my peers anything. I'm not, I'm not going to build a house, probably for any of them. And so it's a different mindset for 20 years, whenever I speak, or whenever I try to do, you know, a sales pitch, or whatever, I'm trying to get a build job from a client. So it's sort of refreshing that, like, I don't have to sell anything. I just get to tell you what my opinion is on, you know, whatever I believe in, those types of things, and and also get informed by my guests. And so for me, it was I want to interview. So I knew so many people having been, you know, in my community for 20 years, and I really wanted to interview people in person. I just, I love people, and so I'm like, Well, what's one thing that's different about my podcast? Most podcasts are remote. And, you know, obviously don't have Joe Rogan money, so I can't fly everyone in, you know, private anyway, to some cool studio. And so I was really important to me that everything be in person. So you're right for the first year, you know, other than maybe Brad and maybe one other person, every single one was in person. And I do think there is a subtle difference in the interview style, when you are in person, the body language, the chemistry, the the way you interact with people, it's different. I've gotten better at asking questions. Frankly, I got better at shutting up, which I'm not doing a very good job of right now. But with with the three of you, one of the thing, one of the thing I was going to contrast with is, like, I've never listened to a podcast or been on one or interviewed with one where there's three guests, which I think is a really cool dynamic. I mean, obviously the modern craftsman has two, but most other podcasts just have a single person. And I've experimented. I've had a co host a few times just to kind of try it out and see what it feels like. But it has to be the right blend and sort of unique. And I think that's a real asset for you, especially with what Zane said about how you want that you want people to be very relaxed and very comfortable. And I applaud that. I think that's really cool, and it's different, and I think it's working
Micheal Conneely 23:26
for you. Well, the best thing about it is the three of us, you know, Jive really well together. You know, there's three different personalities, and we're good friends outside of this, if you would see our text chain every literally, yeah, we'd have to kill you if you're sorry. But we are, we're we are talking and communicating every single day. So we just have a rapport. We have a chemistry, almost a quasi bromance. I know that those two guys like me, but sometimes it works. It works. And I think that comes through on the on the cast.
Mark Williams 24:04
Yeah, you have the out of curiosity. Have the other builders in the builder 20, not necessarily jealousy, because obviously they support what you're doing. But do you ever get a sense of like, Oh man, I would really love to be a part of the level heads, like, what does it take to be the fourth guest or the fifth guest or the host? I should say,
jamie verdura 24:21
there yet? Yeah, we get them on. There's been a few guests that have been on. Yeah,
Micheal Conneely 24:24
we've got a bunch of them on this. Guests, yeah, which is cool.
Mark Williams 24:30
You know, I think when how have you so you've had 46 episodes in, maybe we'll each share a little bit of what we've changed about herself. What are some things that you've changed since the very beginning, you know, and to how you interview now, I guess, what are some things that you've learned, you know, through through interviewing, that you're maybe a little surprised at or sort of reflecting on, like, Man, when we first started, we didn't know this. But now, when we interview people, it seems like it's just that's just normal.
jamie verdura 24:59
Well, for me, I just try not to do them too drunk. That's always a good one,
Micheal Conneely 25:06
really, for the record, for the record, Zane and I are vehemently opposed to that. We want to,
jamie verdura 25:12
yeah, I would like me to be they would like me to be drunk. I
Zane 25:15
need to be a little bit. I
jamie verdura 25:16
actually haven't listened to one episode for real. Swear to god, I've never listened to any other podcasts. I've been on any of these. I won't watch this one. I just Yeah, so I try to crib BF bombs, because it's not good for business. But other than that, I don't want to change, if that makes sense. I just want
Micheal Conneely 25:38
you to change. I've changed, right? No, yeah, I don't know. Maybe we've just got more, like, we'll do a little bit more prep work when we're going to interview somebody, maybe just gather a few questions and, yeah, that's about it. Because our first one was with Chris merchannie, and we were, I mean, it was a show. We didn't know what the hell we were. We still don't know what we're doing. But we're doing, but, but shout out to Chris. He shared with us,
Zane 26:06
I think, to echo you too, Mark, I learned after listening back to listen more than I talk. And I think you you feel like you've got to feel that if you have any sort of like, empty air, you know what I mean, like, it feels like you're like, oh my god, oh my God, and you freak out, and you're like, I gotta say something. And I think if you go with the flow of what's happening, then that actually works better. So where I've learned so
Mark Williams 26:34
it becomes a natural I mean, obviously the goal of, I assume, all of these, especially for your podcast and mine, is you want it to be relaxed and comfortable, because people can sense in your voice. I was able to get away with that, you know, just by interviewing people in person, it became a natural conversation. Some people are not. One of the questions that gets asked sometimes on DMS is, you know, and this was speaking to broader Instagram videos and things like that, but the question was, is, how are you so comfortable being on camera all the time, and I think this is a little bit I would be like, Jamie this way is like, I don't have to change who I am. I'm, just who I am. And so I from that standpoint, and it was interesting to hear Jamie's take on it, because that wasn't how I intended the question to be interpreted, but it was interesting to hear how Jamie interpreted that question. And what I've learned for myself is probably two or three things. One is, you know, it's a disservice to not investigate the person, because I can wing it. I mean, like you guys. I mean, I can, you know, I can Hail Mary pretty much every conversation. But if you're now, that is, you know, year in year two, and people you want to, I want people to have value. I don't want people just to tune into the episode, just to support me, while I'm very grateful that they would, I want them to learn something. I want them to get something out of it. Whatever that might be. Might be, it could be, it could be laughter. It could be relaxing. It could be, you know, I think we all listen to music for different things. You know, if you're working out, you want you know workout music. If you're relaxing, you want you know something else. And so I, I think there is a flavor for everyone. But what is it for you? So for me, I really wanted there to be educational content, a little bit of everything and but I want, more than anything, I wanted to be real. The other thing is, again, the pause and I interviewed or the guy, the same gentleman who, well, I guess, shout out to him, Jason, to Russia, from WCCO radio. He and I had coffee a couple months ago. He's a local Minnesota broadcaster. Been in the business for a long time. He said there's great value in waiting an extra beat, and I think that's what you just mentioned, Zane, that sometimes, especially us motor mouths like myself. Like being silent is hard for me, because I either have a lot to say or my ADA is already going ADHD is like going 20 questions ahead, but just like pausing, it's a little bit harder with you guys, because there's three of you and so and again on virtual it's hard to know who's picking up the baton, where it's one on one. It's a little bit easier to know you know who's who's going first and who's going second. And his comment was, is, basically, be comfortable with silence for one extra beat, and he goes, you'll be surprised what people will open up with. And I'm still practicing that, but that is something that I've learned, and I really appreciate, you know, listening to other people and how they, you know, conduct themselves.
Zane 29:07
Yeah, I don't know if I don't know, I don't know if I've thought about that, then I've just thought by listening, you know, listening to the game tape that, uh, you know, always try to listen to what we do well and what we don't do well. And a lot of times I was like, You talk too much. You talk too damn much. And that's what I was telling myself. So
Micheal Conneely 29:29
you have critics. My wife the number one critic, and she would call me the interrupter, the great interrupter. I interrupt everybody. I talk over everybody. So I apologize, boys, if that happens on this podcast, never, because I still do it, because I do listen. I listen to all the episodes before I release them after they're released, I always try to improve interesting that's
Mark Williams 29:54
I don't listen. I don't listen to him before I listen to him after. I always listen to him Monday when they release, usually when I'm. Working out. And I mainly because, do you guys find that when you're interviewing somebody, it's not that you're not paying attention, but you, I mean, you're having a live conversation. I don't unlike again, maybe our spouses. I don't know if your spouse is like my my wife remembers everything I've ever said, evidently, because, when, because, because she doesn't need me to repeat myself ever and so. But like, I cannot, I will, not shockingly, I will. Mike is just losing it over there, off screen, you know, I, you know, I will forget things that we talk about right now. And I, I find that listening to it when it comes out, you know, like, three, four weeks from now, like I feel, I feel like I'm a listener, like I get to listen to it for the first time. Like, Oh, that's kind of good. And sometimes it sounds so corny. Sometimes I'm like, I'll see if I can finish my own sentence, and I'll kind of like, spend like, oh yeah, that's what I would say. And then I'll say it and be like, Yep, I guess I know myself. And then, but sometimes I'll get it wrong, and I'm just like, oh man. But anyway, I find great value in critiquing, like the ums. I'll critique again, the speech pattern. And I find that sometimes it's just time and comfort level. As you do this, longer and longer, you get more comfortable with you know, your pacing. Sure,
Unknown Speaker 31:06
sure.
Zane 31:08
I feel like we've all gotten better with that. I mean, even though, I mean, Jamie must be a pro. He doesn't listen to the doesn't listen to he needs
Mark Williams 31:15
no improvement. I am who I am, and I'm not changing. Yeah, I
jamie verdura 31:19
don't Yeah, I don't want to start a second guess myself,
Micheal Conneely 31:22
and he's got that deep DJ voice that just sounds good, and he's just sounds good. He didn't he knows it.
Zane 31:29
I don't listen.
Micheal Conneely 31:31
I don't listen to myself like he's so cool.
jamie verdura 31:34
I do not listen. Not a one.
Mark Williams 31:36
What do you think? Where do you guys see the future of the level heads? What are some things that you're excited about, even this year, and if you were to look, you know, longer term, you know, what are some things that you're excited about maybe doing, or you're just kind of happy to kind of see where it goes. We're
Micheal Conneely 31:53
probably going to do some off site or on site, remote episodes. We've been talking about that that's probably the man on the street at IBS. There you go, the man on the street at IBS that's gonna
Unknown Speaker 32:14
steal it. We were actually,
Mark Williams 32:15
it's funny to say that we're gonna, we're gonna do that this coming year. I haven't actually, Oh,
Unknown Speaker 32:19
see, he's already No,
Mark Williams 32:23
no. I was like, the problem with that problem with international builders show is how loud it is. And so I had talked to Douglas, you know, can you get a soundproof booth and it's like the din in the background? Because usually, if I do a live event, I want to use that recording and then use it for an episode. If you're at IBS, you know, walking around, man on the street, just interviewing people, which is, I think is really cool, and I do want to do it. I haven't figured out a way. How do you control the background noise? It's so loud, and would would somebody actually want to listen to it, you know, on, you know, on a regular or is it not for them? Is it for something else?
Zane 32:59
This is how we end up. This is how you end up being successful. And we end up, we just have the idea, and we're like, let's go. And then we
Unknown Speaker 33:06
talked to my phone,
Micheal Conneely 33:09
and then we air, and it sounds like pretty
Unknown Speaker 33:15
much this episode is brought to you by,
Mark Williams 33:21
I mean, I don't know. I think it's a great idea. And I think other people, I think you're gonna see an explosion of that too. I had heard too, that you maybe either have to get permission for video recordings if you're Oh,
jamie verdura 33:33
inside, yeah, that makes it. That makes sense. The new product does it. Though I hate rules.
Mark Williams 33:37
I mean, you're gonna take a bunch of builders and you're gonna say that. I mean, you know how many people are walking around with video? I mean, in today's world, like we are honestly regulating people's video, I don't know. I very much against that.
Zane 33:51
Maybe Anderson to build a sub booth
Mark Williams 33:54
say. I mean, maybe we'll have to do competing. I'll tell across the street. We'll have our competing sponsors. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I, actually, I have a person, does Anderson have a booth at IBS? Because they will, they'll do that. They didn't
Zane 34:05
last year, but they, they didn't really, yeah, they didn't last year. They generally do, though, New
Micheal Conneely 34:16
Hampshire, yeah.
Mark Williams 34:19
What other sort of remote is that kind of the main thing was the the man in the street. I mean, you don't also have to do it at IBS. I mean, you could honestly do it wherever. I'm thinking, like, think of how much success Jimmy Kimmel's had, you know, walking down Hollywood Boulevard or, you know, somewhere. Imagine, I can imagine Jamie, you know, interviewing people in San Francisco, and they think they're on TV, you know, they probably open up the All, all over. Jamie,
jamie verdura 34:42
yeah, I could, guys will be in California. Do it. We'll run it. That's right, yeah, we'll make it happen. I like to see, I mean, we, we talk about getting more sponsorship and getting over and everybody's super busy and trying to figure out how to chase that. Out how, how's, how do you navigate that?
Mark Williams 34:59
Do. That's hard. I nobody tells you, or nobody told me. Anyway, maybe they told you when you start the podcast, at least the way I've run it, I my burn is pretty high just with, you know, I have a marketing admin that's probably 70% of her time is helping with, you know, the social clips and the posts and, you know, we've, we've established essentially, about seven bit, seven different platforms off of the curious builder brand now, and some of them we haven't even announced. I mean, I can talk about them now. Why not? But some of it so problem is, is every I keep getting all these new ideas, because, again, we've talked a little bit about the sense of community. It started with the podcast. You know, we launched a Spanish version about a month ago, and that's been pretty slow just because I'm not, I don't speak Spanish, so it's also hard for me to personally engage with it. So, you know, Belka Cruz is amazing interviewer, you know, fluent Spanish. She's from Nicaragua, actually, a past guest of mine that I was so impressed with. I'm like, will you be our you know, curious, builder and Espanol. I just feel like so many of our trade partners speak Spanish and I don't. I don't want what we're I don't want what we're talking about. I don't want the the stories that we're sharing to be exclusive just to us because we speak English. And so the hard part is getting that message out there. And so that's, that's something I'm excited about. And the reason I related it to sponsorship is, you know, it's expensive, right? I mean, not only to edit each one of these episodes, to publish them. You know, the equipment, that's kind of a one time cost. But there's a lot of, there's a lot of, I think the thing that I don't even calculate is time. I'm probably, at this time, way over committed. I'm probably spending two days a week on curious builder branded things. But again, it's so far beyond the podcast, because obviously a lot of people, when they start, you know, just record, mix it themselves, but it's a lot of work. And I was like, I knew I did not want to do that. It's just like, you know, you can build a house. I mean, Jamie, obviously you're very involved. You're self performing. I don't build any of my homes that way, you know, I always tell my homeowners if you see me working on your house, you know, call the project manager. I'm ruining it, you know. I mean, I'm not, you know, if I start editing my podcast, we're gonna have problems, real problems. And so I ended up hiring all that out, but that costs money. But then the messages that you're conveying in the community, that you're building, your sponsors find value. And so I was able to make a proposition to, you know, are people that I already buy a lot of products from, whether it's Pella or adaptive or, you know, Alpine hardwood, you know, a number of shout out to my sponsors over the years that have helped out, and they say, Well, we believe in the community. So it's more that, you know, the community yours is unique, because you have, you could tap into three separate communities. I think there's actually a lot of potential for you for sponsorship, because you could each one have your own micro market, and you could, you know, divvy up how you want to attribute it to your sponsorship. Right now, we've got these collectives that we've started, and we it's called the curious builder collective. It's essentially a light version of builder 20s. And so collect locally here in Minnesota, we have, I think 23 I'll cap it once we hit 30. But basically we meet four times a year for three hours, and we're talking about contracts. And I'll bring in a lawyer, and he's just there as a reference, and we'll just talk about contracts, like, how do you do pre construction? Pre construction agreements? And so a lot of stuff that we would talk about, builder 20s, but much no NDAs. Just like, if you ask a genuine question, I'll answer the question, whatever it is. And I think the only three things you can't talk about is, like, you know, for monopolies, you can't talk about, you know, price fixing. You can't talk about margin. I forget the other one, but honestly, it never comes up. So you're just talking about, like, how you talking about, like, how you run a business, and it's been very well received. And so I find a lot of value in that. And then, of course, the sponsors are attracted to that, because now they see a bunch of builders getting together, and we're gonna, we're gonna launch it into four markets next year. I've got three of the states in mind, but I have to iron out some of the details. I'm kind of in the middle of those pitch sponsors now, and so for me, that's how I've sort of attracted some of the sponsors and saying, Well, I really like getting people together, and it's hard to get builders or owners of any company to go anywhere. Well, if they're coming for value and content, then the sponsors want to be there, and the only way to get in that room is to either be a builder or be a sponsor in that market. Well, now those sponsors are really excited, because now it's relationship building. I'm not really into transactions. I want relationships. So if, if you support that local builder group, then then that's a relationship, and you in the group will determine whether they want to work with you or not. And I don't want really, I don't want to be salesy. I want to be real relationships. And those are going to be deeper and go farther. We're going to be doing a sauna boot camp retreat. I'm really into athletics, and so that's something totally offwind. But I'm going to like, well, maybe there's other builders out there that need a mental break. And so we've got a coach coming in to talk about somatic breath work, and like breathing through you can use it for sports stress, whatever you want. And then we'll do cold plunge and sauna. And then we're going to do a curious builder boot camp, 20 builders out in Zion National Park. You have to get off the airplane, check out, check in your phone, no phone, no alcohol, three days. And I don't care if you can run a five minute mile or 20 mile, you're gonna sweat. And so I just care about effort. And so we're gonna be doing some hiking, trail running, mountain biking, canyoneering. And then really it's just outside, I find that I get my best. Ideas, being away from distractions and but being with other business owners, I want it to be sort of this breeding ground. Either want it to be breeding ground of ideas, or Lord of the Flies, and they'll be destruction. And this thing went off the rails. So I know that that's there's a long way of me saying, like, how have I navigated sponsorships? I've I just keep do, doing things that I'm that I'm personally interested in, and then finding groups of people that want to do it, and then if enough people want to do it, ultimately, sponsors are like, Hey, we see value in what you're doing. And maybe it's a little different than what the market is, because a lot of stereotypes of builders aren't true. Some are, some aren't, you know, and anyway, that's, I don't know if I really answered your question, but that's kind of how I'm
Unknown Speaker 40:41
looking at No, great, yeah. I
Micheal Conneely 40:43
mean, we're, we're considering getting some T shirts made,
Unknown Speaker 40:50
thinking about it,
Mark Williams 40:53
but don't think too hard about it. Think too hard about it. You hurt yourself. Back to you. 25
Zane 40:59
I think we should, I actually think we should do this, do this tour, like Mark saying, but we should do it at a bar, like we started the podcast. Just go to bars all around America. Invite
Mark Williams 41:12
builders. You would kill it. Are you kidding me? There would be a huge that would be amazing. And can you imagine the video cameras and the bars and what you talk about, oh, man, it'd be, it'd be off neighborhood near you, but skip the podcast. That's gonna be like a Netflix series. Yeah, it's like, move over Pawn Stars, or pawn shop stars, or Ice Road Truckers. You're gonna have Jamie going into some bar in Idaho, you know, some brass knuckles.
Micheal Conneely 41:40
We've actually, we've actually had about 48 episodes, and two of them we couldn't release. Just say that it was too much fun at the bar.
jamie verdura 41:52
Yeah, the cutting room floor. Yeah.
Zane 41:59
I used to be the cutting room. So I used to do all of our editing. We very first started. And we, we had, we had that one that it was like, live at one of our builder 20s. And they were like, Well, how was it? How was it? And I was like, we can't, we can't do this normally. And I just put I hit record at the very beginning. Like, I mean, you know, you were on the podcast, I hit record at the very beginning, and we just let it roll, and we catch as much as we can of whatever we can at that moment. It was such a bad idea. But, you know, sometimes, sometimes it works, and sometimes it really, really doesn't. And that was one of the times when it really, really didn't, yeah,
Micheal Conneely 42:45
and that was a tremendous amount of work for Zane to edit all that in the early days, because we we sucked, and maybe we were letting fly a little. So he had it was like Swiss cheese. He was cut and paste and cut, and it just got to be so much work. So I'm glad we gave it to Douglas so Zane doesn't have to do all that crap, because it's, I mean, he spent, you spent a lot of hours doing that shit?
Zane 43:07
Yeah, I spent hours doing it, yeah. I mean,
Mark Williams 43:10
a lot of it. Do you find though? Now, I mean, it seems like I don't know. I mean, I actually don't know. It'd be, I would be really fun to be in Boston sometime and watch them edit. You know, I'm not sure how much editing actually happens. I know there's a lot of, like, maybe audio adjusting and, you know, highs and lows and base level, but, I mean, it seems like they pretty much just roll the video. I don't see a lot of major editing. I think one thing people often ask us podcasters, like, Oh, you must edit a lot. And maybe Zane you maybe you should speak to this, because I don't have experience with this. I mean, did you find that you had to cut a lot out, or was that you maybe, sort of over editing, and whereas just maybe, hey, here's the beginning, here's the end, and you could make a note. I mean, obviously, if someone had to leave to use the restroom, or, you know, something really bad happened, you know, you know, I've had mic fails, I've had, I've had episodes that didn't work because I forgot to hit the record button, or I had a record button on, but it was, you know, muted. That's the one problem is, is that, in some ways, it's easier when it's virtual, because there's less things to go wrong. I have noticed, I have made a number I've probably had about five or six episodes in two years that I've had to ask the guests to come in and re record because, you know, one of the settings was off where these, you know, we use stream yard, same as you it's such a good platform that it really makes it you know, obviously it's idiot proof, if the four of us can do it.
Zane 44:25
So what are you trying to say? I'm
Mark Williams 44:27
saying we're, I'm saying we're, I'm pretty sure you know what I'm saying. I'm saying we got four idiots. It turns out, turns out to be, one of the qualifications to be a podcaster is to be an idiot. So there you go.
Zane 44:40
Yeah, yeah, no. I mean, it was, it was a lot of a lot more work than I thought it would be. I kind of thought you'd just roll it in and push play. Of course, half of it is getting your intro music and lining everything up, you know, moving things around, lining everything up. Because sometimes these, these platforms, don't exactly line up, always 100% you know. Like, there may be a delay in somebody's in somebody's feed, or whatever, so you got to get them, you got to get them all lined up to where, you know, when you just got done saying that there's not a five second pause, and then there's me, and then Mike talks over me, because my feed is, like, has, like, a little delay. So that was, yeah, that was really the most, the most of it, but, and then, you know, like you said, there's times that somebody's, you know, somebody's feed sounds like a robot for 10 seconds, and you gotta, you know, clip that and get them back in, and clip them back in at a certain time. And the hard part is making it sound natural, you know, when you're editing that, that because shit happens, you know, and since Doug took it over, I don't think what we've, I don't know maybe we have.
Micheal Conneely 45:51
He's a pro, exactly, but he's very natural,
Unknown Speaker 45:53
you
Mark Williams 45:54
think. And I suspect, well, obviously Douglas listening to this at some point, because he has to edit it. But I wonder if degs heart rate has ever gone over like 72 in his life. Like he's a very even keeled person, right? I mean, like he is just steady Eddie, I bet his wife loves him, so it's got
jamie verdura 46:13
to be really knowledgeable, too. 67 hours of construction podcast every week.
Mark Williams 46:18
Oh, man,
Micheal Conneely 46:19
he's a cool customer, that's for sure. He is. I
Mark Williams 46:21
think your mind would be like beautiful mind. I think you'd just be seeing clips. I think it'd be, actually, what I really want to do. Here's, you know, you guys said your man on the street, I actually am putting together. I haven't talked to Doug about this. I do need to talk to him about it, but I find I'm about to, I really enjoy blooper reels, and it definitely fits my personality. I'm gonna start putting together. I'd like to do quarterly, but I have enough content for probably daily. I would love to put together a bloopers reel. Like, have you guys done ad reads? And I usually just wing it. I'm guessing you guys do too, and you're just like, and you're just like, why can I not get this straight? You can have a conversation, like, I was just having a conversation with someone today. Like, I can ad lib, no problem, but give me a script that I have to follow. Oh, my award. It's a nightmare. And, yeah, so I don't know from your sponsorship standpoint. I know obviously Anderson's one of your sponsors. Do you have other sponsors as well besides Anderson?
Zane 47:11
Just to Anderson right now, Google,
Micheal Conneely 47:12
Facebook, all the big ones. Forward. I Preska
Mark Williams 47:26
I actually tried to pitch Red Bull one time because Tyler Grace said that I was his polar opposite. It was, it was like I had three Red Bulls and a line of coke, and I was just like, all revved up. That was how he described my personality. So I literally took that cut and I sent it to Red Bull and asked them if they would sponsor me just crickets. No one. Nobody responded. I even, I even made shirts and a hat with, uh, bottles of red bull on it and a line of coke. It just looked like a snowdrift. And then I sent it to to Tyler. But I also was, I took a picture of it and send it to Red Bull, trying to pitch them and solicit sponsorship again. No response.
Zane 48:07
How did you know who to send it to?
Mark Williams 48:09
I think I that was the hard part. I didn't really know. So I just started probably their information on their website. So
jamie verdura 48:15
reception, this is like, what's this
Zane 48:18
info at Red bull.com you um,
Mark Williams 48:24
so you know, for those out there listening that are, you know, obviously we're making the bar very low in terms of starting a podcast. So you too can do it, if we can, but don't be, don't be afraid to ask people for help. And I guess my biggest advice would be just simply make sure you align with who you are sponsoring with, you know, I've heard before where, you know, people would, you know, take, you know, whatever funds they could get, and I get it like you got to run the production. It's not cheap, and unless you're going to self fund it all, and then, you know, what's the payout and what's the, what's the goal with it? You know, is it, you know, community service? Is it in community? And that's fine. That's a noble cause, obviously. But you know, between time and money, you know, these are not inexpensive hobbies that anyway, making sure that you're that you're essentially your sponsor doesn't tell you everything you
Zane 49:08
have to do. Now, Anderson is very supportive. When we went up there, they were like, We love the podcast. And they actually, there were several people that had actually listened to it, like, it's like, Oh, you guys know about this. So it was, it was they were very supportive, um, you know, they were like, Oh, we liked the episode with such and such. When this happens, and they've been pretty hands off and still listen to us. Because when they were hands off, it was like, do they even listen to this podcast? Yeah,
Micheal Conneely 49:40
do they know what's going on? But I a big thing is the three of us are true Anderson customers, even before we are sponsoring us. So everything we say is genuine. It's we don't read off a script. We just say what's in our product. And yeah,
Mark Williams 49:58
wait. So are we all admitting that we know how. Read, yeah, well, I
jamie verdura 50:02
have staff for that.
Mark Williams 50:05
No, I mean, I agree, yeah, I have staff to do that. Well, maybe just in that one, hopefully that was helpful for people listening that are considering starting a podcast. It's always nice to talk to others and kind of go just
Micheal Conneely 50:18
make one little quick interjection there, Mark, if they are considering doing a podcast, contact motif media to
jamie verdura 50:25
produce that. Yeah, that's a big shout out. Yeah. Big shout out to
Micheal Conneely 50:29
Douglas. He makes it easy. He makes it sound professional. Even us three lackeys, he makes us sound pretty decent. So if you're considering it, it doesn't have to be in the construction, construction industry, either it can be anything,
Zane 50:41
or the construction industry. That's actually a great name for it. Mike actually specializes the construction industry is a great name for what we have. I'm
Unknown Speaker 50:51
making a shirt. We're
Micheal Conneely 50:52
bringing you mark. That
Mark Williams 50:54
would be a good that would be a good podcast, name for construction too, though, in the last nine minutes of this train wreck. What is the State of the Union? Let's, I'd love to hear what you're hearing, you know, from the building side. You know what? You know, are you busy? You know, sales, what are your What are your What are your clients saying in terms of the market? You know, I'll just give a quick overview, because everyone's talking about, you know, you've got interest rate. Interest rates, you've got the election, you've got inflation. How are you guys navigating those in your respective markets?
Micheal Conneely 51:30
I guess I'll go first. The only I mean, it's going great. We're going gangbusters. We're staying busy. The phone is still ringing. I'd say the only negative side or negative pressure we're feeling is inflation hasn't hasn't stopped. You know, I this time last year, I thought, Okay, we got through the interest rate raises. Inflation is, you know, bananas, it'll probably level off, and it hasn't leveled off. Construction costs are still high. Now. It's not skyrocketing like it was the previous years, but it's still going up, and we're finding that the projects we're bidding now, the people are shocked at where the pricing is coming in at, and we are, too, to be honest with you, we didn't think the cost to construct would be this high. That being said, they're still pulling the trigger. You know, maybe we ve back a little bit. They're not necessarily making the house smaller, but they're just eliminating, eliminating, uh, amenities like sport courts. So many houses have sport courts, and now they're pulling back. Sorry, we're not going to put a basement sport court, and we're going to say 250 grand. But other than that, it's it's still going crazy. People are still spending money, they're still buying property, they're still building houses. The phone is still ringing. Knock on wood. It's nice to see that. And the Chicago market that we've had some price appreciation in line with the rest of the country, we've always been a market, even though we're the third biggest city in the country, kind of had like a small town type aura with pricing. It was always very affordable. We weren't getting the numbers that you see in the coasts and which kind of sucked, because that translates to less margin for us as builders. But it's highly competitive too. That's another part of it. But all things considered. It's good. State of the Union is still good. And
Mark Williams 53:25
what does your pipeline look for? You know, one year out,
Micheal Conneely 53:29
oh, we're bananas. We're we've got work for the next two years. Wow. And we've got, we've got nine project here, I'll tell you, we've got nine projects under construction. We've got five in for either permit or design, and we've got seven pre cons. Wow, amazing.
Mark Williams 53:50
And how does that relate to, let's say, your normal workflow.
Micheal Conneely 53:54
It's it's probably what it was last year, but the last two years have been pretty good. It's more than we've been doing. Say, in the last 10 This is the busiest we've been. Wow,
Mark Williams 54:06
excellent. That's amazing to hear.
Unknown Speaker 54:10
Yeah, where are?
Zane 54:15
Well, it's not, it's not a I don't want to say slow slowing down. I should say because it's still, you know, we're still having the same issues that Mike's having with, you know, with inflation and pricing go, you know, prices going up and all of that stuff. But there, there is a there is a hesitancy, I think, here, just to kind of see what's going to happen next? What's going to happen with, you know, interest rates, what's going to happen with inflation? You know, is there going to be a downturn? Because people keep talking about that, you know, I think there's a hesitancy here, and it's slow, but it's still, it's still good. I mean, that's why we shut the the website down, was because we were still getting a lot of we were still getting a lot of interest. Building, you know, in building. And so we were, the calls were still coming in, for sure, but if you talk to people around the area, it definitely has slowed a tick since last year. You know, it's hit a speed bump. So still good, but slowing out
jamie verdura 55:20
here in California. So we're on the, you know, the San Francisco Bay Area Peninsula. So there's quite a bit of money here. We build on the coast. Obviously there's money there. Busiest we've ever been, pipelines, good phones ringing. Big projects are still there, because they're usually deeper pocket clients. We lost a couple jobs where people have two jobs, where they actually shelved the project, they got the permits, price came back, and they just couldn't afford it. They didn't want to pull the trigger. So those projects are for sale, but as fast as they go for sale, I have a meeting on Friday with new clients that want to buy the project. Do you
Mark Williams 55:55
own the land, or you're buying I don't know. You're able to somehow stay on. How does that work exactly? Because
jamie verdura 56:01
I'm awesome.
I work.
Micheal Conneely 56:07
I work with the client employs all of Half Moon Bay,
jamie verdura 56:11
yeah, yeah. No signs in front of the jobs, nothing like that. No names on the trucks, which is true. You know, I get in with the client and then they say, Hey, I can't afford this. You know what we do to get down. I said you could get down. I said you could change the scope. That's too much for us. We want to sell it. Do you have a realtor? Well, yeah, I have a realtor. Then I get the realtor in, and then he goes, just, you know, for the up to him. All I want is, whoever buys it, tell him, Jamie's going to be the builder, right? Here we are. Here we are. So that kind of works out pretty good that way. But yeah, pipeline full busy for the next couple of years. Phones, you know, negotiating a bunch of whales, those take a while, takes a year, to bring down $3 million plus projects, back and forth, plans and changes, and, you know, they gotta get the other bids and all that, but keep a 40 people busy every week. So, wow, helps a lot. When you run the mob. You run the mob, yeah, no. But what I've noticed that I think the low range, you know, the you know, there's been a lot of tech layoffs right in the tech, you know, the mid range techs are making decent money. We're usually working for the sea wingers at our level. But that mid range job, the kitchen remodels, the new decks and landscapes, I think, are slowing down. And I'm saying that because I'm getting calls from subs that I've never got, cabinet shop looking for some work. Concrete pumper, looking for some work. I have a lot of access to carpenters and laborers all of a sudden, especially this time of the year, usually they're harder to find, but now they're they're calling me every day. So there's definitely a slow in the market overall. But you know the CEO C
Mark Williams 57:40
suite. That's like your upper level management.
jamie verdura 57:43
It's not the mid level tech, it's the guy who signs the check, usually, who we're building for.
Mark Williams 57:50
Yeah. I mean, mine, Yeah, mine, uh, yeah, I would have, I'd have the gloomiest news we've had. I think three, $3 million jobs. Either cancel one is going to come back next year, but it's very slow here, specifically for me. I mean, it's crickets. We have one house under construction, and then we have, we just signed, a couple remodels well, which is fine, and then, but it's really, I noticed about a year ago, the pre con started drying up. And we're not a big company, and we do four or five projects a year. So I mean, that that part isn't, you know, it's not necessarily. The timing of it, though, is more of a problem than the number. And so we, yeah, it's just interesting. But I've talked to a lot of builders here locally, and a lot of them are definitely down. You have a few that are just like, you know, if you have a three, four year project, that's what I would say. That's one of the big benefits of being a higher level builder, if you have a couple big projects, especially if they're staggered, it really helps you even out the highs and lows. And you know, as you know, all being builders, it's you. We don't ever get to pick when a client wants to start and stop. And inevitably, they all start at the same time, and they all stop at the same time. And so you get these, these Herky jerks, and it's so irritating. And one of my goals, going back to the podcast, is to have another stream of revenue to sort of even out some of that, you know, some builders do remodeling, and that's their even out. Some do commercial some do, you know, maybe some do service work. And I can see now, after 20 years looking in the rear view mirror, if you had a few other operations, that could all be sort of, you know, tied into construction or building, or even if not just having some ways to even out some of the cash flow over time would be nice, because we had five homes last year under construction at this time, and they all finished within 90 days of each other. I mean, as a nightmare, it's all your, all your, all your, your trade partners are fighting over each other for the jobs, and it's just but then I saw kind of the end coming, just in terms of, you know, that was when interest rates were eight and a half percent, and people are really drawn back. And the odd thing was, for me personally, is that a lot of my clients pay cash. So you would like to say, well, interest rates really don't affect them, but in some ways it does, because if you can leave it in the market. Right, or just get at, I mean, heck, you could just park it at the bank and make pretty good money. It just there wasn't. It was hard to give them the incentive to, like, go unless there was already burning need. But pricing here continues to go up. I priced out a package on a home from a year ago, and it follows inflation. I think it was like seven 8% higher than it was exactly a year ago. So I see no really relief in pricing. I do think for at least in our market in Minnesota, I think if someone clients always want a deal, whatever that means. But I think if there's one to be had, it's now to the end of the year. Because I do think regardless of the outcome of the election, people just don't like election years. I know I don't as a business owner, because people tend to grab on and just hold and just wait and uncertainty. Yeah, it's uncertainty. And we just, you know, I, you know, obviously it happens every four years, and so it just kind of seems to be cyclical. I wish I had a few. It would be nice if I had a few of those five projects that were, you know, had been staggered by about a year, because then it becomes kind of a non factor. But anyway, you
Zane 1:00:57
know, Mike said something I think that I've that I have repeated to people that I think is really wise a while ago. He probably doesn't even realize he said it. He said, you know, historically the best time to build the house as far as pricing goes, historically the cheapest time to build your houses right now. Yep, and I love that. You know, a lot of people, we've had a number of projects over the, you know, over 10 years, we've had a lot of people be like, well, we're gonna wait and see when pricing and then after covid especially, you know, it was like, well, we're gonna see when pricing comes down. And you you just wanted to shake them and be like, it's not. It's not, you know,
jamie verdura 1:01:35
maybe a couple points on the lumber, and lumber is low now. But guess what fuels up? Wages up. I mean, it's inflation, right? So it's not coming down.
Zane 1:01:45
Everything else is up. So every so following, I 100%
Mark Williams 1:01:50
agree with you on that. Let's we'll end this with you guys did your Rapid Fire, which, by the way, I really enjoyed one thing. Shout out to your guys's show, where you mentioned what Zane said about being relaxed and fun. I will say this as being a guest. I don't know if I've ever had more fun than being on your show. So if you're thinking about getting a guest, you know, reach out to the level heads, because it's a hoot that the end is just a wild ride. I really enjoyed. I felt like a game show host, you know, at a bar. So I guess that sort of fits the theme, but it was that was a blast. Man. Okay, so why don't we? You guys can each respond to I'm going to ask, I gave you three quotes, and I just want to get your thoughts on it, and I read a lot. And so these are the quotes you guys can decide who was going to answer each one. So the first one is, boundaries create freedom. How would you resonate with that?
jamie verdura 1:02:40
Boundaries create freedom. I'm the wrong guy to ask on that one.
Micheal Conneely 1:02:46
That's why you got answered.
jamie verdura 1:02:50
I have zero boundaries for me. That's the freest I'll ever feel so.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:55
All right,
Mark Williams 1:02:57
that's a good answer. All right. I heard this last week, and it simple scales, fancy fails.
Zane 1:03:10
Okay, I'll answer that. I think the simplest your simpler your systems are. I think it's easier to scale when everybody can kind of latch on to that. When everybody in your in your office, on your team, can latch on to that, that's easy to scale that business up. But when the fancier you get with your systems and your processes, your you know, SOPs and all that stuff, I think that's I think it makes it I think it makes it really hard for when it makes it hard for everybody to follow and everybody to to do what they're supposed to do, then you're going to fail as a business owner.
Micheal Conneely 1:03:44
That reminds me, my uncle had a system similar to that, used to call it the kiss system. What's the kiss system? Keep it simple. Stupid. That's what's the system? Yeah,
Zane 1:03:57
that's it. That's simple.
Mark Williams 1:04:00
Keep it simple. All right. Last but not least, Mr. Mike, the overachiever lane is never full.
Micheal Conneely 1:04:10
The overachiever lane is never full. Is the overachiever lane on the right or the left?
Mark Williams 1:04:16
That's up to you to interpret how you wish, sir,
Micheal Conneely 1:04:20
I guess that means just plenty of room for people to do their best and work work hard and reach their full potential.
Mark Williams 1:04:31
So I agree. I mean, I would, I would, once you was doing that one that's awesome, yeah, can't believe you guys have a cricket machine that's amazing.
jamie verdura 1:04:42
We brought it to the party.
Mark Williams 1:04:45
That's awesome. If I had that, I would use that a lot. Oh, my word. That's amazing. I can't wait for that. I hope that one makes the final edit, for sure. In fact, I'm gonna make a note that is definitely gonna make the 104 cricket scene. It's going to be the Instagram post for this
jamie verdura 1:05:01
one. We've got a lot of not consumption.
Mark Williams 1:05:05
You guys are like, old time radio. That's like, you know, that's like, old time, right? You've got, like, the widgets and all the little noise makers, like the night you guys like 1920s like baseball team, you know, announcers,
Micheal Conneely 1:05:20
yeah. Welcome to the podcast.
Mark Williams 1:05:25
That'd be amazing. You guys should each get your own musical instrument and as your intro. You know you guys can have your own little musical intro, because have you guys done your is it harmonics? With Douglas Duvall,
jamie verdura 1:05:41
please enlighten us.
Mark Williams 1:05:42
So the harmonics, I understand it. So like on the podcast, if you listen to it, and actually it's more the Instagram handles and the short clips, it'll it'll go and it obviously ties in with curious, because it'll be like, hmm. And so he had me do hmm, like, seven times, and then that's, actually, I think he called it harmonics, but basically it's like a, it's a verbal representation of what you are. So I don't know how you verbally do level heads. To me, I'm thinking a bunch of bobbleheads the opposite of a level head, but that would actually be a fun but anyway, anyway, we digressed quite quickly on the show. But the point was that each one of you have your own little noise maker, and that when you guys do your intro. You know, you got the squeaker you got, you know, whatever you guys want to I want to be a gorilla. No, go for it. Well, we will have so funny. Here comes the crickets again. That's got to be Zane, who's got that? All right, for those that want to tune in the best spots to you know, find you guys would be on Instagram, onto the level heads as well as anywhere you download podcasts will be level heads as well. Coming to you weekly or not, it's a dealer surprise. It's up to you. But you guys are if you guys appreciate this episode, if you like what you're listening, to reach out to them on their Instagram handles, give their show like a follow, and I appreciate you guys time coming on.
jamie verdura 1:07:06
Thanks so much. Thank
Zane 1:07:07
you. Thanks for having us.
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