Episode 85 - Navigating Business and Family: Nancy Nelson-Flom's Journey from Entrepreneur to Employee
Episode #85 | Nancy Nelson-Flom | Navigating Business and Family
In this episode of "The Curious Builder," Nancy Nelson-Flom shares the inspiring journey of evolving her company, discussed her landmark sale to Stark, and highlighted the importance of long-term relationships in business. We dive into life at International Market Square, the balance between work and personal life, and navigating leadership transitions. It's a great listen for anyone curious about building a business from the ground up while maintaining personal integrity and vision.
Listen to the full episode:
About Nancy Nelsen Flom
Nancy Nelsen-Flom's passion for design began with a “crush” on the color orange in 1974. After earning a Bachelor of Science in Interior Design from the University of Minnesota in 1988, she gained valuable experience in commercial interior design and worked at her father's flooring company. In 1996, Nancy founded INTERSOURCE, Inc., a full-service floor covering dealership known for its exceptional solutions and service, which she successfully ran with her husband Eric for 26 years.
In 2022, INTERSOURCE, Inc. was acquired by STARK Carpet and rebranded as INTERSOURCE by STARK, with Nancy continuing to lead the team. Her career is guided by core values of passion, integrity, positivity, excellence, and respect. Nancy excels in strategy and team coaching, and she is dedicated to creating a positive impact through her work.
Her passions include family, travel, music, health, fitness, adventure, and helping those in need.
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Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:00:00]:
I've never really been much of a procrastinator, but I do have procrastinators around me, which is painful, kind of, to see when you're not a procrastinator. But I try to do the hardest thing first, and I make a game out of it. I do try to step outside my comfort zone every day, if not multiple times a day. But I make a game out of it because why not make a game?
Mark Williams [00:00:20]:
Tell me more. Today in the Curious Builder podcast, we had Nancy Nelson Flam from Innersource by Stark, and it was a really delightful interview. What was really unique about her and her husband's business is we've had a lot of business owners on that are talking about selling it, transitioning it to other people in their family, but it was really fun. Nancy and Eric have actually sold their business to another company, and she's staying on. So we talk a lot about what that looks like, how you negotiate. So if you're looking to sell your business, if you're thinking about building your business so you can sell it, this is gonna be an episode that you're gonna wanna tune into. And now, without further ado, here's Nancy. Welcome to the Curious Bitter podcast.
Mark Williams [00:01:03]:
I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today I'm joined by Nancy Nelson Flom from Innersource by stark. Welcome, Nancy.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:01:09]:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.
Mark Williams [00:01:11]:
I feel like I've known you for a lot longer than I actually have.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:01:14]:
Very true. I feel the same way.
Mark Williams [00:01:16]:
You have like this magnetic personality that when people meet you, they're like, I feel like. I think Nancy's one of my best supporters, my biggest super fan. Cause I hear all the time like, oh, Nancy was talking about this, but I feel as I talk to other people in our circles, they're like, oh, Nancy's just the greatest.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:01:30]:
Oh, that's so sweet. Thank you for making my day.
Mark Williams [00:01:33]:
Yeah, we met through, originally through Mary Wozniak, who is a dear friend of our personal family, but also an interior designer. And we did a project for her four years ago. And did you guys had an existing relationship because you're down at IMS and that was the first time I met. You called on me. You introduced me to the c nine with Aaron Eggert and the circumental nine coalitions. So we go to coalition nine, I should say, talk about your origin story, how you came to be this fixture at international Market Square in Minneapolis and your evolution to you and your husband owning a business, and then you've sold the business. Your husband has just recently retired watching you stranded on the island. And the reason for this longer intro is we've had so many people on the podcast that father, son, or husband and wife, or people that want to grow their business into something that they can sell.
Mark Williams [00:02:23]:
You're in a really unique situation because you have sold your company, but you're still working in it. And I would love to go down the rabbit hole how that happened, what that looks like for business owners that are listening to this and that are considering, how do I sell my business? Do I even have a business that is sellable? And so we'll talk about all those things, but let's go back to the beginning. How did you get into this business?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:02:44]:
Okay. Wow. How much time do we have?
Mark Williams [00:02:46]:
We got 10 hours.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:02:47]:
We're fine. So my father had a floor covering company since before I was born, actually. And I was always rolling around on the carpet rolls in his store. And I met his interior designer, very eccentric woman who just passed this year, actually. And she was about 100. So she was very inspirational. And I got interested in design, went off to college, decided my head was over my heart. And I went into health and physiology and exercise physiology.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:03:12]:
Came back from UMD my first year of college, met with my cousin, who's kind of a mentor to me. And she. And I said, do I follow my head or my heart? Because my heart sang into your design. And she said, follow your heart. So I transferred down to the U with a lot of other friends that went up to Duluth, came back down to the U and got an interior design degree. I was always interested in more commercial than residential at the time, even though my father's company was a little bit more residential oriented. So I practiced interior design, more hospitality, retail, restaurant, country club. Very fun projects.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:03:44]:
It was at a height of economic period that was up and down. And I thought, how are we ever going to have a family? My husband, back up. He's in the same field. So we were at competing architectural firms. So I thought, how are we ever going to have a family? How are we going to have.
Mark Williams [00:03:57]:
Were you dating before that happened?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:03:59]:
We started dating between 14 and 15.
Mark Williams [00:04:02]:
Years old.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:04:03]:
Yeah. Years old.
Mark Williams [00:04:05]:
Okay.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:04:06]:
We just had our 36th wedding anniversary. Do I dare say that? Yeah.
Mark Williams [00:04:09]:
Congratulations. That's impressive.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:04:10]:
Thank you. So I say we've been dating for 43 years. Yeah, he's my rock for sure. Anyway, went into design. Then I realized, you know, I think maybe I need to get into my father's company. He wanted me to be a part of it, they weren't super high on technology and more old school, and they didn't have people really going out and hustling business. It was more people came. Yeah.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:04:32]:
So I was there for two and a half years.
Mark Williams [00:04:34]:
Where was this location?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:04:36]:
Anoka. And it's actually still there. Redmond's linoleum and carpet company. My dad, he passed in 2010. But anyway, I was pregnant with my first child and I thought, I think I can go off and do this a little bit differently in that I had that design back. I didn't want to do design and step on our clients toes, but I had insight into technical things that I didn't know when I was on the design side. And I thought, hmm, maybe there's a little bit of a niche here and maybe we can do both commercial and residential furnish and install and make it to the designer market. So that's what inter source set off to do in 1996.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:05:08]:
So 26 and a half years into that, after up and downs, we actually didn't start right in international market Square. We moved into international Market Square in like 2009. We probably had our first employee maybe two years into it. I was the only person the first year. And then my husband joined me, left his architectural firm job. And now thinking back, I think, gosh, that was so risky. We did it. And I do live by the, if you put your mind to it, you can do it if you put your mind to it.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:05:35]:
Taught my girls that too. And now they live far, far away, so I guess it works. But anyway, we were approached by Stark, somebody we have a mutual person who knows, knew both of us, and they knew we were looking at expanding our space in IMS. And I was looking at that corner glass space and the building actually did want it to be a national company to move in there. And I'm like, I've been paying rent for how many years? And anyway, it's a long negotiation period. But Stark approached us and we did what should have taken twelve months, but we did it in nine months. We poked holes in it, we thought.
Mark Williams [00:06:10]:
So they came, to be clear, they came to you with an offer and said, at that point, how big was your company in terms of people like twelve?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:06:16]:
Okay, yeah, so not real large. And the installers are not part of our team when I say twelve employees because they're subcontracted, even though we've worked with some of them for 30 years. But anyway, so they approached us and I was like, I thought this maybe would happen in my sixties and maybe this isn't the right time. But you really cannot pick the time when opportunity knocks. And we looked at the pros and cons and really they were doing everything we wanted to do. We just didn't have the capital to do it. And the philosophies were in alignment, which was huge for me because I'm a very value oriented person. So it's worked out very well.
Mark Williams [00:06:49]:
And that has been a year now or two.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:06:51]:
It's been two years and three and a half months.
Mark Williams [00:06:53]:
What? Let's back up a little bit because I want to get into the nitty gritty here on some of this. One of them is, I'm just curious, the name innersource, what was the inspiration behind the name?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:07:02]:
Yeah, so that was my husband's brainchild. And it's interior resources. Yeah. At first I didn't really want to give up the design stuff when we were, we actually started as interspace, and I still want to do a little bit of space planning. And I was conflicted. Right. I needed to drop that, so I did. But there was another company called Interspace, and they didn't have a good credit record and they were getting us confused with them, so we had to change our name.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:07:26]:
I'm like, I don't want that. So interesting. Yeah, yeah. So it's only a few years we were interspace and then we became inter source.
Mark Williams [00:07:33]:
Yeah. What? For those obviously listening in Minnesota that are very familiar with International Market Square, it's this incredible building that collects all kinds of architects and interior designers and all these wonderful resources in one place. It's amazing. And it's like Saks Fifth Avenue, New York, for shopping, basically. If you're going to build a high end home, you can just go to one place. I assume that's the design. I actually don't know that. How long has ims been around in that, in this capacity that I.
Mark Williams [00:07:59]:
That we recognize it today?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:08:00]:
Yeah. Like since 1985.
Mark Williams [00:08:02]:
That long. Wow.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:08:04]:
They joined so the 8th, if anyone's familiar with it. They joined five buildings. And you're talking to someone who knows Munsingware because my mom, my grandmother and my aunt all worked for Munsingware, which is what Ims now is. So Munsingware was pretty state of the art, like fruit of the loom if you want to. I think they started with the union suit way back when, and the atrium actually had train tracks in it to bring in the materials to. Yeah, it's a totally different thing. And they have the only double helix stair, I think, in the country. I don't know if I've shown that to you.
Mark Williams [00:08:34]:
Where is it?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:08:34]:
It's on the east side of Ims, but it's where the shifts used to get off of work and new shifts came on and they could do it at the same time.
Mark Williams [00:08:43]:
Oh, I gotta go walk in because I was coming. I always go up the stairs. Right when you walk in. Right by your showroom there?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:08:48]:
Yep. It's on the opposite side. So I'll have to show you that. It's really cool. Oh, interesting. So I look at that, and I think about my mom coming and going. She was in payroll, but she wasn't on the sewing seamstress side, but.
Mark Williams [00:08:57]:
Oh, that's wild. What a cool story. This episode is brought to you by adaptive. For over two years now, I've been using adaptive. It's an incredible game changer. It's AI technology based. It helps you with Bill pay. And as a builder, there's very few things that anger our subs more than not being paid on time.
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Mark Williams [00:09:47]:
If you're looking to upgrade your business, I'd highly recommend adaptive. You can reach out to them@adaptive.com or listen to the Curious Builder podcast, episode 15 or episode 80, where we dive into their origin story. You're selling fabrics, textiles, wood floor, kind of everything that you would lay down on a flat surface, essentially.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:10:04]:
Yep. Everything for commercial and residential spaces except for ceramic, tile, and stone.
Mark Williams [00:10:09]:
Okay.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:10:09]:
Yeah.
Mark Williams [00:10:10]:
And what percentage of your revenue would be commercial versus residential in a normal time frame? I don't know how. I'd be curious to know how much that's actually changed over the years or if it stayed pretty steady.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:10:19]:
It's stayed very steady, and it's about 50 50, actually.
Mark Williams [00:10:22]:
Okay.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:10:22]:
Yeah. It's probably maybe because of the confidence I had being a commercial interior designer and that insight and the background that I grew up with on the residential side.
Mark Williams [00:10:31]:
So I always say that loyalty is also bred of competence, and it's like, instantly meeting you. You're like, okay, Nancy's got it going on. You can just tell it's charisma. Right. And you're good at sales, but you're just also, you can tell even how you described yourself, like, you value relationships, which I think anyone that's really in sales for the long term has to understand that this is a relationship game. And yes, you have to have wonderful products and all those things. We can buy a lot of products from a lot of different people, so that then you're left with, the thing that makes the most difference is relationships, in my opinion.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:11:01]:
Absolutely. And doesn't that make the whole day interesting? Every day is a different day. Every relationship's a different relationship. I love getting to know people, what they're made of. It's totally. I love to get to know my clients outside of work, for sure.
Mark Williams [00:11:13]:
Yeah. In terms of being an IMS, how much has that helped you as a business?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:11:17]:
Yep. So, interestingly enough, it was 2008, the recession, when we were across the street, actually in Aldrich Square is what that building was called. And we decided to take a big plunge because we were thinking, if we don't, we wanted to get a lot of legs under ourselves to be able to work in such a discriminating market. So we didn't want to move right into IMS. When we first were establishing ourselves, we waited about ten years before we did that. And we did it right during the recession and invested in the showroom, which was kind of scary, but it worked. So location, location, location. It does.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:11:51]:
It does help. We no longer had to walk across the street in the rain or snow to get lunch. IMS is good. And then we were on the north side, still a little bit on the outskirts, a little bit not in the. I don't like drama. I like just good people. And anyway, finally, now we are front and center.
Mark Williams [00:12:08]:
Yeah. Interesting. I mean, you can almost have an entire episode, probably, on the dynamics of IMS, I'm guessing, because what would you say? I mean, from a turnover rate standpoint, and this is someone who doesn't obviously go there every day like you do. I go there maybe four to six times a year, usually to visit people I'm either going to interview on the podcast or relationship building, or obviously, we use some of the trade partners like yourselves on certain projects, and I want to go down and see what we have down there. But how often would you say businesses are moving versus staying?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:12:38]:
Right now people are moving in. Our architectural firm, a design firm, I think they're looking for one large tenant on the fifth floor. I'd heard through the grapevine that someone's getting more serious, and that's never done until it's on the dotted line. So I think right now there's an influx, which is good to see after Covid and the newer owner or the newest owners have been working to reduce the footprint of some of the ten. They had too many laces, and so that was kind of hard because some of the smaller design firms moved out and they're making spaces larger. I think that makes the building more attractive to a potential buyer. I don't necessarily think it's up for sale. I don't know.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:13:15]:
Was our business up for sale the right time?
Mark Williams [00:13:18]:
Interesting.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:13:18]:
Yes. I think that's their strategy, is larger footprint.
Mark Williams [00:13:21]:
Let's go to the sale. So did you, when you started, did you and Eric think that this would be a business that you could sell someday?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:13:29]:
Not necessarily, because my dad was my role model, and he was 83 when he passed away. And he was actually still attempting to work. I mean, the last month, maybe not so much, but up to 10 hours a week, he was still doing the books. So, no. And I visualize that is anyone gonna buy flooring from an 83 year old woman? And doesn't that sounds like not the greatest life, right? But not to get too woo woo. But I actually think my dad and my mom, both who have both passed, are behind this whole thing, because I think they know that their granddaughters are California lovers, and I think they think I'm gonna need to be by their grandkids someday. So. Yeah.
Mark Williams [00:14:05]:
How old are your daughters?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:14:06]:
25 and 28.
Mark Williams [00:14:07]:
Okay.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:14:07]:
Yeah. One right now is in Brooklyn. The other one's in Santa Barbara, but the other one is moving to San Francisco from Brooklyn in two weeks. Okay, so, yeah.
Mark Williams [00:14:16]:
And so anyway, so you're thinking you have this business. You're not really thinking about selling it as you're building it. You've got, what, 26 years?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:14:24]:
26 and a half years.
Mark Williams [00:14:25]:
26. Seven years. Start comes in and says, hey, we'd like to. Why you like, why was it that they were attracted to you? Exactly.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:14:32]:
So they had a little bit of a footprint. Stark was a line within another furniture showroom in ims. Prior to that, they did have their own showroom that closed in about 2009, about the time we moved in, actually, due to the economic recession. So really, they could see they had an influx into what we were doing because they own prestige mills, and they could see their prestige level. They could obviously see what their person was doing in the furniture showroom, which I thought was an odd thing that a furniture showroom took the line on. But anyway, and that was, I think, around 2018 when that happened, so they could see that happening, and they said, we'd like to come to Minneapolis, and you're our first choice. So I thought, first of all, I was a little bit put off. My husband's.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:15:17]:
You've got the inside scoop. And I'm like, yeah, I know, but don't coerce me or anything like that. I'm an independent person, so don't tell.
Mark Williams [00:15:24]:
Me what to do.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:15:25]:
Don't tell me what to do. Well, we certainly didn't want more competition. Right.
Mark Williams [00:15:28]:
Because they're basically, if you said no, I suppose you had to weigh. If we say no, they're either going to buy someone else and come in a big way, and you knew that they had been an IMS previously. So you're going to compete with them. How many other competitors would you have in the building?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:15:43]:
Probably three.
Mark Williams [00:15:44]:
Three?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:15:44]:
Okay. Yeah. So this eliminated some competition and should allow us to grow. And so far, it has some for sure.
Mark Williams [00:15:52]:
Yep. I mean, you went to a bigger space. I assume that's a cash flow and a sizing thing. Plus, it sounds like the building tenant wanted a national presence. What's. Now you have.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:16:00]:
They did, and they didn't know that because it was my name on the lease. Originally, it was my husband and I, and then it turned into. It was a great day to go to them and say, guess what? You do have your national presence now. Yeah.
Mark Williams [00:16:12]:
That's funny. Before we go into what the expansion is, how did you like walking? You said it should have taken twelve months. It took nine. What did you mean by that?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:16:20]:
Mostly the negotiation. There's a lot of negotiation with someone acquiring a business and all the different terms, and it's a lot of.
Mark Williams [00:16:27]:
So you've got a lawyer that you hire on your side. They have their lawyers. And you guys are.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:16:31]:
Their lawyers are mostly. Mostly internal.
Mark Williams [00:16:33]:
Yeah.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:16:33]:
They would use an outside person a little bit, but, yeah, it was a lengthy process, and there was a build out on top of it. We had 17 weeks to get the permit. It just. It took a long time. It's a national. The building's on the National Historic Register. It was also somewhat Covid ish time, so I don't know if they were pushing plans through the city as fast as we would have hoped, but things just took a lot longer. Even though we had.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:16:57]:
We'd gone back to ims a couple times. Can we add another month? Can we add another month? And then finally they're like, okay, we can't add anymore. It's gotta, it's go time. It just, I would just plan for a year if you gonna negotiate.
Mark Williams [00:17:10]:
And I've heard that too with, let's say like a father and son or legacy transitions. That just takes, I think they even said maybe takes a year or two.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:17:18]:
Yes.
Mark Williams [00:17:18]:
Or work through the nuances. Like I imagine in some ways with, maybe with a family, it gets a little more messy. Like you want to sell it maybe to your children, but you also realize, like, maybe you have children that aren't in the business or do you want to make money or do you want to hand it off? And so I'm sure there's a lot of, plus a lot. Most, a lot of people identify a lot of themselves in their business. And sometimes I would argue that's good, and sometimes I'd argue that's not so good.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:17:43]:
Yeah.
Mark Williams [00:17:43]:
Because we obviously are emotional people, and so sometimes that can cloud us to good decisions. So a team, spouses, that kind of thing, for sure.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:17:51]:
And speaking of family, we did take our daughters out to dinner when this all happened, and they happened to be in town, which was incredible. And we said, we've got some news. And right away they were like, sell.
Mark Williams [00:18:02]:
They wanted you out west.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:18:04]:
They weren't really out west at that point, but they, I think just through watching us at the dinner table, which now we have a little bit better separation between work and home. But back in the day when it was hard, they had to listen to a lot of the things that we were dealing with. And I think they learned a lot of grit from it, actually. But at the same time, I don't think they saw themselves in the business. They are in a creative business. They're in advertising and strategy and advertising, which kind of makes sense if you think about what we are probably talking about at the dinner table, was a lot of strategy.
Mark Williams [00:18:32]:
Yeah, that's interesting. So you're going through this, I guess, what were some of the lows and some of the highs during this nine month of negotiating?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:18:39]:
I guess one of the lows that really pops up was when I had spent months and months and months negotiating the lease, actually, I should say Jim and Eric and I, all three of us, Jim's kind of our financial, he was our CFO anyway, and got the approval from Stark to sign it. And then I think legal went up to the owners maybe a second too late or something, and they said, oh, no, no, we don't do ten year leases, and I was like, I gotta walk. This is my reputation on the line. So that took care of itself and everything. Everything worked out fine.
Mark Williams [00:19:16]:
Everything worked out from there.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:19:17]:
Yeah. Yeah. But that was a tough one. Because I'm like, my reputation?
Mark Williams [00:19:21]:
No, because that's what you were negotiating on.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:19:24]:
But they also said, okay, it's fine, sign it. So I did what they said to do, and then somebody else came in and said, oh, no, we don't do that. I'm like, it's too late. Right? Yeah. So that was probably one of the lower ones.
Mark Williams [00:19:35]:
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Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:20:18]:
Oh, maybe like a few days.
Mark Williams [00:20:21]:
Okay.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:20:21]:
Yeah. They're really good. So one of their core values is we'll figure it out.
Mark Williams [00:20:24]:
Yep.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:20:25]:
So they're really good at figuring things out.
Mark Williams [00:20:27]:
Yeah.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:20:27]:
Yeah.
Mark Williams [00:20:28]:
How now you're staying on?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:20:30]:
I am.
Mark Williams [00:20:30]:
Is there a period of time indefinite or. How does that work?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:20:33]:
No, it's so. I think it works really well. How they did it. I'm not under a contract. I could get fired tomorrow. I could leave tomorrow. I think that makes us both want to please each other, really. So I still love what I do.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:20:47]:
So I'm gonna be there. I don't know how long I'll be there. I guess time will tell. Yeah. And my goal is to grow the business and still work on relationships and be creative. Coach our team. I'm glad you're leader in the office and the beacon of positivity. Put it that way.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:21:03]:
Sometimes maybe people think I'm too positive, but I think that's what gets results. Right?
Mark Williams [00:21:07]:
Yeah. There's no such thing as too optimistic. I like to operate where optimism and delusion meet.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:21:12]:
Okay.
Mark Williams [00:21:13]:
It's a wonderful peek how you mentioned earlier that, as, in terms of scaling, that partnering with a national company was going to help you with that. And I get. Not that we shouldn't say other than money, because money is an important thing in terms of investment. Did it allow you to invest in people, in sales and marketing, in terms of, like, advertising or like, how does like. In specifics, how does partnering with a national company help you grow locally?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:21:38]:
Yep. Great question. So they're able to have exclusive product. About 40% of our showroom is exclusive to stark, so no one else in town has those materials, which I think is key. And then they inventory a lot of it. In Calhoun, they have five warehouses, so they have the capital to buy up product. I'm sure they negotiate very hard and be able to sell it at competitive rates.
Mark Williams [00:22:01]:
Gotcha. So they're buying in bulk and it's exclusive. So if someone wants. Okay. You're currying the market and you're decreasing the price, which then if you sell it, you can increase your margin as well. Oh, that sounds great.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:22:12]:
Yeah. And then they. I think it was about two years ago they took, I think it was $9 million. So I'm sure it's been more since. But in stock area rugs, they really, really are doing incredible things right now. There's a big Missoni launch that's happening, and they brought in models and these great new products, both custom and in stock. Broad loom and area rugs. And that's going to happen, actually, next week we're having an event.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:22:35]:
Very cool things that they're doing. Very cutting edge.
Mark Williams [00:22:38]:
And how big is the territory that you'd have a non compete in? Is it all Minnesota, upper midwest, or.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:22:44]:
Yeah. So we have a 50 miles radius. Anyone that lives 50 miles radius of ours, but in the closest stark is Chicago. And so it's pretty far. And we do work in other cities, too, because if they live here and they're working outside, we've shipped product as far as Dubai. We do installations all over the country.
Mark Williams [00:23:03]:
And I would imagine a lot of designers here and architects as well. Obviously, you have a lot of design work. I know we have a lot of designers that are out in Sun Valley, Idaho, or California, or if people are wintering, you know, they're going with an architecture firm or potentially interior designer firm here. Their relationships are with you.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:23:18]:
Right.
Mark Williams [00:23:18]:
So if they had something down in Arizona, you would procure it here and ship it there.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:23:22]:
Yep. So how Stark works is that the. It's all trade preferred. And so the designers registered, so to speak, has an account, and they have only one account manager for that one account. And that account then purchases out of our location. So it is all relationship based and location based. But there's, there's somebody in Iowa, and they're not working with Chicago. We're gonna work with them.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:23:45]:
So it's relationship based.
Mark Williams [00:23:47]:
That's interesting. How so? Eric, you mentioned. Yeah, he's retired. What's it like when you sell and you're like, I'm really excited to keep working. And Eric's like, I'm out. Mic drop.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:23:57]:
Well, you know what? It's been interesting. I think I will admit I have the more fun job. I think I'm in the right seat. I love people. I love getting to know people, figuring people out, helping people. I think that's pretty much why I was born, is to help people. And so I love what I do. He had the harder side.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:24:15]:
He dealt with the problems.
Mark Williams [00:24:17]:
What was his role?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:24:18]:
It changed over time a little bit because we did have an estimator or not. He was back into estimating. He did do the full build out of the space because he has an architectural background. He was just invaluable during that whole process. We're, like, back doing our design jobs. He knew exactly what to do. Really, really long hours, I would say, while we were growing the business, he probably worked, like 14 hours, days for 15 years. And so he was burnt out, ready for something different.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:24:44]:
Not sure what that something different is yet. I think he's just realizing we had to say no to so many things that we're just in this transition phase of. Actually, I'm getting a little bit tired socially right now. We had twelve days in a row. I said, eric, if you would have been working, would you be doing all of this? And he said, no. And I said, but I'm working, and I'm doing. He goes, yeah, but you're so social.
Mark Williams [00:25:04]:
Yeah. That's funny. I assume you would describe yourself as an extrovert.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:25:07]:
I used to say in the middle. It depends upon the room. I think I'm in the middle. Yeah. But lately I feel like I'm getting a little bit more extroverted.
Mark Williams [00:25:17]:
More extroverted.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:25:17]:
I get a lot of energy, people.
Mark Williams [00:25:19]:
That's where I was going with this question.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:25:21]:
And I don't need a lot of downtime, whereas Eric does need a little bit more downtime and transition time.
Mark Williams [00:25:25]:
It's funny, you described yourself as a in the middle because you just described as an extrovert. I get my energy from people.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:25:33]:
I know, I know. Yeah. I think I'm moving more that way. I haven't always been that way. Yeah, yeah. I was much more of a wallflower when I was younger.
Mark Williams [00:25:40]:
If you could go back, obviously nobody gets a chance, but it's always. We have a lot of young entrepreneurs that are listening to the podcast and yeah, I think we can all learn from each other. What are some things that you would have done differently? And I know we won't get an undo, but what are some things that you either learned from a difficult time or some things that, you know what? I would have done that differently. And maybe some things that we did this at that time and it turned out really well, but we didn't really know it was going to go so well at that time.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:26:05]:
Yeah, that's interesting. I think over overarching, I don't think I had the highest confidence sometimes and for no good reason, really. If I would have worked with a coach, maybe at a younger age, developed that, maybe everything would have springboarded faster. Because now I feel like I have a lot more and I don't know if it's because I was acquired or what. I'm older, wiser. I have a lot more experience under my belt. But there was that imposter syndrome. Right.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:26:33]:
And that is something that is a real thing. And I talk to people in a lot of industries for all different ages and obviously from c nine, and a lot of people have it. And right now I feel like I finally don't have it, which feels good.
Mark Williams [00:26:48]:
But I would imagine some of that is personality, some of that is up. It's like this interesting cocktail, right? Some of it is your upbringing, some of it would be your circumstance. A lot of it is age and wisdom. Like, you are better at your craft. I think back to earlier in my career, and we build a better home now, but arguably we still used really good people. But what's changed? Confidence. I love the line that when people challenge you on your price position, you're like, I don't really need the practice. I'm a professional.
Mark Williams [00:27:16]:
I'm good at what I do. And we deserve to be paid for what we do. But even, like, how you deliver that, like, it takes some. There's some maturity that has to happen for you to leave your own messaging. And there's the old, the fake it till you make it. And there's a lot, and I'm, and I think we, any entrepreneur has probably been there that I prioritize the figured out factor probably more that and communication. Probably more than any other single asset. Because I like that you said that one of the things that you loved about Stark was that they had to figure it out factor.
Mark Williams [00:27:41]:
Because even for employees, it's like we are constantly bombarded with fires and things that we. No day really goes as planned.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:27:49]:
No.
Mark Williams [00:27:50]:
And honestly, that's what attracts me to it. The variety.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:27:52]:
Exactly. No two days are ever alike. You can't get bored. There's just no way. There's no monotony.
Mark Williams [00:27:57]:
Yeah. I don't know if I've ever been bored in 20 years.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:27:59]:
I have not been bored. I think the last time I was bored, I was like 13 years old. It's like before I met Eric. Right.
Mark Williams [00:28:04]:
Can. Can you relate to this? Do you remember being younger? Go way back, and you're like, I'm thinking the only place I can think about this would be maybe like high school or college or whatever. And you think, oh, man, the days are. I wish this day would just end now. As an adult, I wish each day was like 72 hours, because there's so much I want to do when I have a young family and I love what I do business wise. And you have all these passions and hobbies. Anyway, it's just funny, the more you talk to people, the more you realize, man, you're very aware of how short time is.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:28:32]:
It also means, though, that you get into a flow during your day, which means you're doing the right thing. Right. Like, you walk into work and you think, I've got this whole day in front of me, and all of a sudden it's 05:00 and other people are getting ready to walk out the door. I'm like, I feel like I just got here. What did I do today again?
Mark Williams [00:28:47]:
Do you do. What are your. And before I share mine, I'll let you share yours. What are some scheduling hacks principles. Walk me through a successful day for you in terms of how you manage it.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:28:59]:
Yeah, I do plan my meetings pretty far in advance.
Mark Williams [00:29:03]:
Like what, weeks, months, years?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:29:05]:
Not years. I would say some of them are. It depends upon what's going on. But it could be a week to six weeks out, right? So there could be two meetings a day. There could be five meetings a day, which would be on the heavy side. Some of our internal, though, because I do one on ones with our teams. There's eleven of us currently, and so that takes up time. Right.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:29:24]:
But yeah, a successful day would be something that's pretty well planned out. I do have a high integrity factor, so if I say I'm going to do something, I do it. So that's probably good business acumen anyway. But yeah, just one where I'm like juggling quite a few things at once because I love that I've got my email going, I've got people coming to my door, I've got my phone doesn't ring as much anymore. That must be technology, right?
Mark Williams [00:29:45]:
Yeah.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:29:46]:
Which is interesting. I think back in the day, how many, like, messages I would get and phone calls and I'd be on the phone all the time. But I do love it still. And that's the traditional side of me maybe, is that I do love when I can catch people on the phone live because it's much more efficient. If you are trying to solve something that, not that back and forth with email.
Mark Williams [00:30:03]:
It's funny you say that, I think I'm 44, just to put a marker out there for age. And where I'm going with this is I feel like the younger generations and I can be fall into this too. A spat, a quick email or whatever. And email is nice for getting a lot of people. One thing right, I have actually started and I need to continue to do a better job of this because my habit is email. But if there's ever a problem, I just call someone. I'll be in an ops meeting sometime and I'll just be like, have you dealt with this? We're talking to someone, they're like, no. I'm like, what is preventing you from solving this? And it's not.
Mark Williams [00:30:34]:
I don't. I need to get a better job as a leader, not just to solve the problem, but in this particular situation, somebody's not responding to that person, so it's not there. So I'm like, all right, let's do it right now. And it's like, you solve it, you move on. I tend to be a little bit like, er doc. It's like I want to deal, I want to stabilize whatever the situation, like immediately, then I don't, then I have to then hand it off to someone else and say, you know, take it from here and go on. Because I just want to put out that fire and move to another one.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:30:59]:
Yep.
Mark Williams [00:30:59]:
I have found. Where I was going with this question is, just recently, I do love lists and I love crossing off my list. And so I have found that every Monday I keep an hour of time or whatever the time is, and I'll plan out the week and I'll have my schedule out several weeks, a month and a half, whatever it is. But really, it's like, what are the, there's just four. What are the four things you want to do this week? And then I'll have a bunch of little other things. Inevitably, the procrastinator in me often does all the things, but those top four. And I know it's, I think there's a book that I just read called eat this frog first. It's basically do the hardest thing or nobody wants to eat a frog.
Mark Williams [00:31:35]:
I think it's the point. But if you eat the frog, you can eat something nicer later. I think is the concept. Essentially. I have found, like, even today I had four things on my list, and I got two of them done because I came in today and I knew I had actually had two recordings today. And I said, you know what? I have to get this thing done because I have a deadline for this, is borrowing some money on a project. And if I don't get this done, like, I'm like, I needed the cooker to be hot enough to make me do it anyway. I wish I could just, those are the four things, and then just concentrate on, don't do a single item till you get those done.
Mark Williams [00:32:07]:
I haven't found the perfect balance on that, but that's where I was going with this question, is, like, how do you prioritize the hottest, the hottest iron versus the hundred other ones you have to deal with, too?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:32:16]:
So I think I've gotten better at this as I've gotten older. And I've never really been much of a procrastinator, but I'm, I do have procrastinators around me, which is painful, kind of, to see when you're not a procrastinator. But I try to do the hardest thing first, and I make a game out of it. I do try to step outside my comfort zone every day, if not multiple times a day. But I make a game out of it because why not make a game?
Mark Williams [00:32:38]:
I love it. Tell me more. Tell me more.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:32:40]:
It's just in my head completely. It's, oh, Nancy, you can, you can do that today. You could even do that and you could even do, do it more. Challenge yourself. You can do this. So it's a little bit of self talk, and I actually think just really good things come of it. My positive energy just gets more positive. My confidence gets higher.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:32:57]:
I think it's a good thing.
Mark Williams [00:32:58]:
Yeah. I think for the positivity. Like, my morning is when I'm the strongest. I usually work out early, so usually about nine to ten, I am just flying high whether it's the coffee, the workout in the morning, whatever it is. And I'm trying to rearrange my schedule so that I, because I get energy from people to meet with people in the afternoons, but do all my work, if you will, have all that energy in the morning. The problem is it's also my most creative time. So I come up with so many good ideas in the morning. The problem is once you get a good idea, you're like, I got to pull the string and keep going.
Mark Williams [00:33:29]:
And that's what happens to my list is my list starts out at ten, but I have this idea, I latch onto it or you and I maybe have a conversation. That's a great idea. Now, like I'm in the moment, I'm in the flow. I'm like, I'm going to see how far this goes. And then before you know it, I'm at the end of the day and that entire list is now. No, I've solved 800 other things that I wasn't even planning on addressing. But that's usually, that's my ADHD and overdrive where it really loves the newness and the variety.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:33:54]:
Yeah. And I think as you get older you probably get a little bit more. I don't know if managing your time, it seems to get a little bit easier. But it also might mean too there's a lot of headspace change going from owner to being an employee. It wasn't very comfortable actually. I didn't know what to do. I did have some additional time because we weren't doing, we weren't writing COVID policy, we weren't trying to figure out our website, all of those things.
Mark Williams [00:34:20]:
So a lot of freedom there.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:34:21]:
A lot of freedom. And that wasn't very comfortable for me at first. Now I'm liking it. So now I feel like I probably can manage my time a little bit more and stick to a plan. Whereas I think before it was just like, you're right, you're going here, there and everywhere. A thousand places. When you own a business, you have to have your head in so many places. I do think there's a difference there.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:34:41]:
Lakes Society magazine is Minneapolis premier target market boutique lifestyle and design publication. It embodies the unique lifestyles and design of the Minneapolis city Lakes neighborhoods from Lake of the Isles to Lake Harriet. It showcases the best in local design projects by both premier builders, architects and interior designers in this area. Lake Society magazine has the look and feel of a national publication with glossy covers, high end finishes. It's mailed directly to upper bracket single family homeowners in the City Lakes area, and it's the perfect local coffee table top publication. Subscriptions can also be available through the website lakesocietymagazine.com. additionally, publisher and founder Karen Stekel has over 27 years in the local magazine publishing industry and has a passion for high end photography and quality graphics. Her commitment to quality visual simplicity and beauty are strongly reflected in her beautiful lake society magazine.
Mark Williams [00:35:37]:
Did you find. I've talked about this a lot on the podcast of what's worked for me, and I didn't. I had some good role models around me in terms of whether it's your family, that is what is. It's interesting because your husband was a co owner, and so now you're at the dinner table creating or iterating or talking about the thing that you like. And so that'd be a little bit different. You know, not that my wife doesn't want to talk about it, but usually at night, it's like we have a young family. So from the moment I walk in the door, the kids are bombarding me. Keep them out of mom's hair while dinner's finished, and you have the 3 hours of family bedtime routine and all that kind of stuff, and then you're just worn out.
Mark Williams [00:36:09]:
So in some ways, it's been easy for me not to work at home or work at night because there's no time. And then I'm just exhausted because I get up early. So that has worked really well for me personally. How did you establish boundaries? Because it sounds like you worked a lot. How did you manage that?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:36:26]:
So it's interesting. So my mom was aging too, so I had a disability. So I had my mom, not 100% of the time, but there was that aspect, and then the kids and then the business, and then Eric and I both in it. So what? Like when I said he worked all those hours for those many years while we were raising the kids, it was like he had this double shift kind of situation where he would, he'd come into the office, about 930, work till five, do family time dinner, go back to the office till two or three in the morning. It was so hard.
Mark Williams [00:36:57]:
That's rough.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:36:58]:
Yeah. But then I had to figure out how to delegate, right? Because if I had to do my mom, the kids, the business, I had to let things go. I had to let my perfectionism tendency, like I had to let go of control. And that actually isn't something that's easy to do. But once you do it, I think that's when you grow personally and professionally.
Mark Williams [00:37:19]:
The delegation.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:37:19]:
Yeah. Once you can let go of control.
Mark Williams [00:37:21]:
Yep. Yeah, yeah.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:37:23]:
And empower other people.
Mark Williams [00:37:24]:
Yep.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:37:25]:
It took me many years to figure that out, and I'm actually witnessing some things around me right now where some people that are so conscientious, they're seeking approval. And I was so happy yesterday. And actually, I went to the employee to tell her. I share my story on the culture call with Chad. Chad's the CEO of Starc and a bunch of other people yesterday because we came up with a plan that we were gonna have to rearrange all these things because this new Missoni launch is happening, and we've got these wide samples. They have to go on the five foot wings. But anyway, long story short, she said, you know what? I know we had this down, but I think we have to go here, here, here, and here and do this for this reason and all of that. And I was like, hallelujah.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:38:01]:
Thank you. So she's showing leadership by me, letting go of leadership.
Mark Williams [00:38:06]:
So this is a good question. I think that I'm very interested in your response, how you can lead by example and you can just lead by being yourself, leading by intention. People talk about leaders all the time. I don't know how to describe it. I know I'm a leader because I own the company and I have all these ideas, but I don't strive to be a leader. I don't wake up in the morning and be like, I'm a leader. Like, little kids are like, oh, dad, you're the boss. Like, now my clients are my boss.
Mark Williams [00:38:30]:
Right kind of thing.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:38:31]:
But.
Mark Williams [00:38:31]:
And then there's, I think of those in, like, bigger corporations that are like, I'm the leader of our company. They're very intentional about, like, how they're leading their team. Have you played around with those two thought processes, and how do you empower others deliberately versus just being kind of like a good human being? Because I sometimes don't know the difference between just being, like, just being genuinely a great job. You're doing amazing. Like, just being very. I'm also a very emotional person, so it's very easy for me to give compliments. I don't. I'm not doing it diplocically or I'm not doing it with an agenda.
Mark Williams [00:39:02]:
I'm just doing it because that's just part of probably how my mom raised me. So I see her doing it. So I guess my question is, as a leader, are there two paths, or what paths do leaders take if they want to empower their team.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:39:13]:
Well, it's interesting you say that, because I wouldn't have said I was a very great leader 15 years ago. And we actually hired a leadership coach and we had a team. We had a group of people, let's put it that way. And we needed to get a team of people right. And I need to be a stronger leader to be able to do that. And so I was. Both my husband and I were coached by this guy and then we had several people on our team get coached as well. And there was a little bit of attrition in the team.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:39:41]:
Some people didn't fit the new model moving forward, and what came out of it is the best team. I'm so grateful to our team right now. I just. We're planning this event next, next week and I just shot off an email like, can you do this? Can you do that? I'm like, I am so grateful that I said, boy, having an event really takes a village, but I'm so grateful that we have the best village there is. So. Yeah, so it doesn't. Some people probably have all the natural skills, but you really need to think about being the beacon of positivity, complimenting people, being empathetic, being authentic. And there's a lot to leadership.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:40:16]:
There's a lot of great books, actually, and communication. That's one thing that's really interesting. I'm sure you're familiar with disc and all of that. There's a book out there that's just a simplified version of disc, but it assigns animals you probably know because of c nine, right?
Mark Williams [00:40:30]:
C nine, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:40:31]:
So now I've shared that with Chad Stark and he mentioned yesterday on the call, because someone said, you've got to be able to read the room. And he goes, oh, Nancy, like, puts animals to people. Time out. There's more to that description, but I truly think you really know how to approach. I can't go to Jim or Don with a disorganized idea in my head, but I could go to Krista with a disorganized idea and she'd have fun with me, like trying to figure it out with me. It's just you have to know how you need to approach certain people to get certain things done and that didn't happen overnight.
Mark Williams [00:41:00]:
Are you mostly yellow, Red?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:41:02]:
I am. I don't know if it's color.
Mark Williams [00:41:04]:
No, the desk. You mentioned desk.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:41:06]:
Yeah. I'm lion. Monkey.
Mark Williams [00:41:07]:
Okay.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:41:07]:
I'm d. Okay. But I've got enough monkey in me to. What's good is this latest book after the book that you probably make a difference book. There's a book called crossing the line now and it talks about how you need to be able to do task and people, and I'm just, I'm lucky that I've got both of those as they're not both as strong. Task is higher for me. And then people second. But the people that are both in task or both in people, they need to learn how to cross the lines to be effective leaders.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:41:37]:
So that's interesting.
Mark Williams [00:41:39]:
Have you seen people within your organization become leaders?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:41:42]:
Absolutely. Yeah, for sure.
Mark Williams [00:41:45]:
How does that, how do you see other people respond to that within the organization?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:41:51]:
Yeah, I think people, I think it raises the bar. Right. People think about, maybe I need to step it up a little bit. Yeah. That's the kind of group I have, though, right now. I haven't always had that kind of a group. There's no one toxic right now.
Mark Williams [00:42:04]:
So that's, I am, yeah, that's, it's amazing when your team, sometimes at the time, you're like, oh, this is very difficult. And then as time passes, you're like, wow, that was a major blessing. And sometimes, as I, I've mentioned this many times in the podcast, Disney has a very famous phrase, excuse me, where it's slow to hire. Yes, fast to hire. Oh, my word. Slow to hire, fast to fire. And I'm the opposite. I've always been the opposite because I get so attached to people.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:42:32]:
Yes.
Mark Williams [00:42:33]:
And it's really blinded me, too. And so we're actually, we're not hiring per se this second. But, you know, the writings on the wall, I think this last year has been very slow. But I do think we're going to see a rebound. And so rather than waiting till we have a need and then going to find someone, then you're going to always be behind. We're going to, for a small company, big companies do this all the time, but we're actually reaching out to try to identify a few people now for roles that we think we're going to need in the next six to ten months and then just interview them. But I told my team I'm not interviewing anybody anymore. You decide if you want to hire this person because I have proven that I'm not, that's not a good role for me.
Mark Williams [00:43:10]:
And they all laugh like, hey, we think we're pretty good. What are you doing? It wasn't quite like that. But anyway, so I'm curious. I'm just, it's more of an experiment. I'm going to see how it goes.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:43:20]:
Yeah.
Mark Williams [00:43:20]:
And see what the team says about it.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:43:22]:
I always like the team to weigh in. The last hire, actually, the. This is kind of interesting. So I initially interviewed them and then corporate interviews them. So now I've got someone to kind of catch me if I fall the wrong way, because I love to believe everything that everyone tells me because I'm so optimistic.
Mark Williams [00:43:37]:
Optimistic. Yep. Oh, I've been there.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:43:39]:
And then we did a round robin where I just said, okay, we're going to be sitting out here. Bring a couple questions you'd like to ask the person. Doesn't matter what they are. Even if two people ask the same question. Doesn't matter. And they just came, and then they'd go back to the office. So they'd sit with us for 20 minutes and talk. They'd go back to the office, just get the next person.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:43:55]:
And that was really, really good. And the person coming in got to then understand the culture and the type of people so they knew what they were. So I think it develops a comfort zone. So first day isn't so scary. Right? Or the second day or third day or the first week or two, you really get to know how people operate and how people interact with one another before you even go to the office, which worked out really well.
Mark Williams [00:44:19]:
Mm hmm.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:44:20]:
Yeah, like that.
Mark Williams [00:44:21]:
Actually, let's talk a little bit about coalition nine. You introduced me to Aaron, and he and I. Yeah, I love his energy. I think you. I think I came into the first time I really met you. I was in your showroom. I was. When I meet people for the first time, that's usually the hot.
Mark Williams [00:44:35]:
It's like Red Bull and sugar at one time. Like, I just usually, I don't know. That's my self def. Not self defense. That's just how I present with a ton of energy. Yeah, you had mentioned something like, whoa, you remind me of Aaron. And so I've laughed. I call.
Mark Williams [00:44:48]:
I call myself Aaron with hairdouse, and I've had him on the podcast. I really like what he's doing. I love everything about what he is. But how long had you been a c nine er before you had made that recommendation?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:44:58]:
Yes, we were the experienced leaders. It's called. I'm like all the people, the old people. But there. There's some youngsters in our team, too. They're like, maybe pushing 40, maybe even. It was 2000. Let's see, 2020.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:45:12]:
Okay, so about four years ago.
Mark Williams [00:45:13]:
Yep, yep, yep. What I love about that, for those that aren't aware of what we're talking about, we've had Aaron Eggert on the podcast, and he has a peer to peer group or a business agnostic peer to peer group. And so he's always kind of said that you should have one group where it's your peers. So in my case, it's other builders. And then you should have one group that has people from all over industry. Yep. And you just get a lot of great energy, a great format, and I love everything that they're doing about that. And we've taken some of the ideas that we've gotten from the curious collective, which is something we do with designers.
Mark Williams [00:45:43]:
Actually, tomorrow is our first design collective, and I've talked to Aaron about some of this stuff. Like, if we go into other states, what does this look like? And he's been a good mentor slash advisor. This works. This doesn't work. And it's just interesting. I just love getting people together.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:45:56]:
Yeah.
Mark Williams [00:45:57]:
And it's really exciting. And I love that he loves to bring people together. But what I really like about his group is that you can't really get in unless you're invited by a current member, which is really in his comment on that was, is that's how you promote good culture. That's how you. And so it'd be sort of interesting if you had a business that was big enough where the people you hired had to be referred by someone in your own company. Anyway, just, I don't know how many, how often that happens in corporate America or things like that.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:46:24]:
Yeah, I don't know. You know what I do love about. I was in Wpo for ten years. It's all women loved that. Decided to take about a year off. And then Aaron approached me, and so it was really interesting to have only nine people. My WPO group was like 24 people at the table. Right.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:46:42]:
It's a lot harder to be vulnerable with that big of a group. So coalition nine is nine people. It's very easy. It's a mixture of men and women. And I love a 40 something year old guy telling me what I need to hear as a 58 year old woman. Yeah, I love the energy. It's fun. We have so much fun together.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:47:01]:
We just did a cold plunge right next door here or that way.
Mark Williams [00:47:04]:
Oh, at CC?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:47:05]:
Yeah, we did just. It's business. It's. I'm going to see one of them tonight. We're going to 20th anniversary next week for some. We do support one another in a lot of ways. So it's very cool.
Mark Williams [00:47:15]:
Funny. We're doing. Have you seen the stuff we've posted? About Sauna camp.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:47:19]:
Oh, I was just reading it about it out there.
Mark Williams [00:47:20]:
Yeah. So we're doing. And I forgot that they had just opened up the co plunge down the street off to go check it out. Someone else told me about it. It was right next to a Crossfit gym that we have here. But it's going to be end of January, and it's an extension of the collectives. I want to get the builder, designer, architect collective, and then anyone in our industry that's interested, Lake, Lake Minnewashta, right up here in Chanhassen, is you can rent out the camp, I think 60 people is the max, and they have eight barrel saunas, and we actually have someone leading us through, like, breath work. And then after you go into the cold water, and you can use your breath, regulate your fight flight and fight response, and then you do this on and back and forth.
Mark Williams [00:47:52]:
But it's basically mostly everyone in the construction, design and architecture field here locally.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:47:57]:
Super fun. So that's great.
Mark Williams [00:47:58]:
You'll have to come.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:47:59]:
Yeah, that's awesome. I'd love to.
Mark Williams [00:48:00]:
I'll see if I can get Aaron to come.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:48:02]:
Yeah, that would be fun. He's all over that kind of thing.
Mark Williams [00:48:04]:
Oh, for sure he is. I like that a lot. What you'd mentioned, you know, there's a few mantras that you have subscribed to, you know, that kind of help either get you through the day or kind of help, you know, guide as a guiding principle. What are some of those?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:48:17]:
Yeah, I just try to not let little things knock me down or grab someone real quick that I trust and can vent a little bit to them so that I can bring myself up right away. Because things used to knock me down and keep me down for a little bit. That's not good for anybody. But I do have this. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. That's my dad. I used to go to him with all these things, and I tend to talk fast, and he didn't really like that so much. And at the end, he'd always say the same thing I'm thinking, did you even hear what I said? But nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:48:47]:
Obviously, you can do it if you put your mind to it. Just challenging yourself to go outside your comfort zone every day. And then another thing I just recently read in a book was how this author took the word grit and made something up out of it. And I really liked it. The g is get over yourself, the r is run to the hard things, the I is inspire others, and the t is take time. And so I shared that with our CEO just the other day, and I'm. I'm just internalizing that. And I think that's really helpful because grit is something that has come over the years.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:49:28]:
I didn't always have grit, but do you feel that if you do those things that it's easier to implement?
Mark Williams [00:49:35]:
I like that a lot. Get over your. So get over yourself. Run to. What was it?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:49:39]:
Do the hard things.
Mark Williams [00:49:40]:
Run to the hard things.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:49:42]:
Inspire others.
Mark Williams [00:49:43]:
Inspire others.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:49:44]:
And take time.
Mark Williams [00:49:44]:
Take time. That's great. That's. That's a pretty good mantra right there.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:49:49]:
Yeah, I like it a lot.
Mark Williams [00:49:50]:
But you obviously strike me as someone who reads a lot of books. Do you. Are you a listener when you're. Are you a walker? Are you exercise? Like, when, where do you consume this knowledge? At what time of day? I'm always interested to see how people get these inspirations because then we show it up and bring it to work and it helps, you know, define what we're doing.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:50:07]:
Yeah. Interesting. I'm not a listener because I live only seven minutes from my work.
Mark Williams [00:50:11]:
Oh, nice.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:50:12]:
And I tend to walk or exercise with friends, so I have to do it on my own time on the weekends or something like that. Or if we go out of town, then I'll get some good reading in planes.
Mark Williams [00:50:22]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's interesting. Everyone's. I'd like to ask that because. And what are you reading right now?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:50:27]:
I'm reading that cross in the line, and I'm about to read from my book club, a book about joy.
Mark Williams [00:50:31]:
Okay.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:50:33]:
So nothing too heavy right now.
Mark Williams [00:50:37]:
It's funny because you're thinking grit, and an acronym comes about joyous, which was Jesus first, others second, yourself last. And just in terms of, like, layering of principles and whether you're a Christian or not, you could still see how that would apply to getting some. Some balance. But I'm even thinking here, this is reverse order of grit. Get over yourself. Is putting yourself last and run to the. Anyways only so much? I love acronyms. It's like some people hate them.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:51:01]:
Oh, I love. I love them, too. I'll be sending you as many as I can find.
Mark Williams [00:51:05]:
Yeah, send me a text. Oh, man, I'll eat them up. I'll post them all day long. So I love that. When you're outside of work, how do you recharge?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:51:13]:
Well, I love live music. Both my husband and I, that's actually how we met. And we still, like, even tonight, I think we're going to go see the new standards at Mears park. So we love live music, and we love to learn. We are just like sponges with whether it's current events, what's going on in the world, how something works, how we need to. Where we need to go next. I don't know. Our kids are very inspirational because, like I said, one's moving right now from Brooklyn to San Francisco.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:51:39]:
And it wasn't necessarily. It was like a four week notice. Her boyfriend got this job in San Francisco, and she's got a remote job, and she turned down a job that wasn't remote three weeks prior. And I thought, wow, if you would have taken that, you wouldn't be going to San Francisco. Yeah. Just learning. Trying to keep up with our. Keep up with our kids.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:51:55]:
These young ones are very. They're further along in a lot of ways than we were at that age. Yeah.
Mark Williams [00:52:00]:
I think the world is so much bigger and smaller. It's bigger in the sense that, like, the whole world is your oyster. You can go anywhere, but it's smaller in the sense that we're connected in a way that the communication is so quick and how we can enter into people's lives is instantaneous. And you have these relationships with people. There's someone that, on LinkedIn, we comment on each other stuff all the time. He lives in Australia.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:52:21]:
Yeah.
Mark Williams [00:52:21]:
And it's just. Okay, that's normal now.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:52:23]:
That's great. And then I have to exercise. I have to exercise a lot because. Just get your head in the right space.
Mark Williams [00:52:29]:
Yeah. And what is an exercise for you?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:52:31]:
So I do these interval strength cardio classes at lifetime. I go to yoga at lifetime. Sometimes it's pilates, sometimes it's bar. Sometimes I'm on the stairmaster.
Mark Williams [00:52:41]:
Yeah. Sometimes those are like, classes and stuff.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:52:44]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mark Williams [00:52:45]:
That's great.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:52:46]:
They're fun. Yeah, yeah. Very, very good for an aging body, right?
Mark Williams [00:52:50]:
Yeah, that's good for everybody. I'm a huge fan of it. Are you usually. Is that a morning thing?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:52:53]:
It's a morning thing, yeah. Yeah. And then the weekends, I'll go a little bit later, but it's still morning. Yeah.
Mark Williams [00:52:58]:
And how about your husband?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:52:59]:
Bike? Yeah, yeah, he's a biker. He's got. We've got lots of bikes in.
Mark Williams [00:53:03]:
Road bike or mountain?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:53:05]:
He's more mountain, but he has a single speed. He has a gravel bike. He's got a fat tire bike. He has a mountain bike.
Mark Williams [00:53:11]:
So he's at Theodore Worth because that's pretty close to where you live.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:53:14]:
Yeah, yeah. And then he goes on road rides with friends, usually every Wednesday night.
Mark Williams [00:53:18]:
Okay.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:53:18]:
So they'll maybe put 30 miles on or something, something like that. But on a weekend it might be longer, so. Interesting. Yeah. He's always been a biker. He was a bmxer. I was like a superfan.
Mark Williams [00:53:27]:
Oh, funny. Back when you're 1415 listening to live music and Eric, you're so awesome on a bmx.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:53:33]:
I know, I know.
Mark Williams [00:53:34]:
Does he still have a little bmx? Does.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:53:36]:
Can you. Still has his hutch hanging in our garage.
Mark Williams [00:53:39]:
That's awesome.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:53:39]:
Yeah, it's all chrome. It's really cool. He had. He had great design taste, even back then.
Mark Williams [00:53:43]:
I'd love to see his bike collection. I've recently just. With training for this trail race I've been doing and just finished it. But road biking is, you know, you run four days a week, you got to do some few other things. But now I'm going to do a few people actually in the building world here, like to mountain bike. And so I'm starting to get in mountain biking a little bit and I enjoy it. It's just like, how many sports and hobbies can you have at one time?
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:54:04]:
I'm impressed that you can have hobbies when you have a business, because that's what we gave up a lot when we.
Mark Williams [00:54:09]:
It's. For me personally, it's extremely important. I will. I'd be happy to give up an extra job because at the end of the day, we have one life to live. And it's not that I haven't worked more than I should, but I think I had really good role models around me. And specifically with my mom and dad growing up and seeing there's. It was a different time though, too. In seventies and eighties, there wasn't email and cell phones and we had.
Mark Williams [00:54:32]:
What was unique is we had the business, or mom and dad had a business on our property, so they had an office. So dad would always come home for dinner, but then he would literally walk 50ft and clients would meet him at the office. So for us, we didn't. We just thought that was normal. Come to find out, no. If you have to drive, it's nice proximity. It sounds like you live seven minutes. That's pretty sweet.
Mark Williams [00:54:51]:
You know, right now I live 45 minutes away. I'm in Minneapolis. So for me, it's coming to that, back to the office after I leave. It's just never going to happen.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:54:58]:
No.
Mark Williams [00:54:59]:
And so I do. I do envy those that have a short commute to their office. From a running and biking and exercise standpoint, it'd be really nice to be able to. I could bike here, but there's no shower.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:55:09]:
So yeah, that's why we do love theater with rocks. Even on the walking, the hiking, the biking, cross country skiing. It's really convenient.
Mark Williams [00:55:15]:
Your location off of 394 on the west side. Even from the office you can get anywhere very quickly. It's an incredible access and hub. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We'll have all your contact information in the show notes. And until next time, thanks again.
Nancy Nelson-Flom [00:55:30]:
Thank you so much. It was so fun.
Mark Williams [00:55:33]:
Thanks for listening to the Curious Builder podcast. If you like what you listen to, please give us a five star rating and write us a review. It really means a lot. It's a great way for us to just understand what you like about the podcast and what we can keep doing so like and review. And please share with your friends and family. Find out more@curiousbuilderpodcast.com.
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