Episode 90 - From Etsy to Italian Artisans – The Plaster Renaissance Begins
Episode #90 | Jessica Mattson | The Plaster Renaissance Begins
In this episode of The Curious Builder, host Mark Williams chats with Jessica Matterson of Dolo Artisan Finishes about the art and challenges of plaster work. From its aesthetic appeal and unique application techniques to the physical demands and business hurdles, they dive into everything that makes plaster such an amazing yet misunderstood craft. Jessica also shares her journey of turning a family-instilled entrepreneurial spirit into a thriving plaster business with her husband.
Listen to the full episode:
About Jessica Mattson
Jessica is an artist, a designer, and a creative thinker. She not only brings her artistic skills to the team but is also DOLO’s design consultant and is in charge of all the digital content. Jessica has always had an artistic eye and a natural sense of design. She also attended The College of Visual Arts in St Paul where her main focus was on photography, design, and metalworking.
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Find Jessica on Instagram here
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Jessica Matterson 00:00
Usually doing hoods and fireplaces, keeps plaster affordable so people can still enjoy it, but have it if you're starting to do all your walls, you're looking into a multi million dollar house at that point, unless the client is that's my number one thing I need in my house is plaster walls, which does not happen. So when you're starting to do larger surfaces, those are going to be higher end homes. So this is where lime paint came around. Is lime paint gives you the look of plaster at a much more affordable price point.
Mark D. Williams 00:38
On today's episode, we had Jessica from Jolo artists, and finishes on and it was a great conversation. Learned so much about plaster. We start out the episode really talking about running a business with your spouse and their new business only one year into business, but have a lifetime of experience as artists. And so it's always really fun to talk to artists about how they can create their passion into a business and their entrepreneurial journey. And then the rest of the podcast was really talking about plaster. So if you're interested in those two things, you're gonna find a lot of takeaways from this episode. Without further ado, here's Jessica Mattson. Welcome to curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today I am joined with Jessica Matson from dolo artists and finishes. Welcome Jessica.
Jessica Matterson 01:19
Hi. Thank you. I'm
Mark D. Williams 01:20
so excited to have you on because I probably last five years, have become obsessed and in love with plaster, which is great because you are a professional plaster artist. That's
Jessica Matterson 01:30
what we do. Why don't you tell us a little
Mark D. Williams 01:32
bit about dolo and tell us about you and your husband's journey, and we'll just go from there.
Jessica Matterson 01:37
Dolo has actually only been our name for about a year now, we actually rebranded.
Mark D. Williams 01:42
I like it a lot. By the way, your website is very fresh and very clean, and thank you. It's great name.
Jessica Matterson 01:47
I'm hoping by the time this rolls out, that I will have you know a lot more on it for people to see. Um, but it used to be Alan Craig custom finishes and one that is a mouthful, and trying to get, like, a URL and emails, and people always get it wrong. And also, when I was going to events, specifically wink events, people would be like, Oh, you work for your husband. And it's not jokingly, he would say he works for me. So it's one of those things where it came to a point where we thought the business had to represent both of us, since both of us were actually a big part of it. He is the main artisan. He comes with the years of experience doing these finishes. I come as more so, the sales, the marketing, everything else that kind of comes in and then on the side I do jump in and pull plaster myself,
Mark D. Williams 02:43
and from I assume, for business operations, then you're handling that as well accounts receivable and payable and all the behind the scenes stuff. It's a lot. So you're doing all you're doing all the business work, and he's doing the fun stuff, the fun stuff, okay, analogous to a marriage. So
Jessica Matterson 02:58
dolo is what we came up with, and it's actually short for dolomite. And dolomite is a stone that is actually used in a lot of plasters. Many of them are lime based. But then they the thing about dolo is, one, there are so many businesses that have stone or limestone in their name, we wanted to stand out differently. And two, dolo just sounds more fun and it rolls off the tongue. It's easy to remember. And the thing about dolo is it's actually harder than limestone,
Mark D. Williams 03:31
really. Yeah. How did you come up with did you do, like, some naming exercises? Did you work with a brand specialist? How did you come up with it? No,
Jessica Matterson 03:38
it was a week of writing in a notebook, and we were just writing down names, like I was caught up in like, stone and trowel, and then we were like, No, it sounds like a gardening company. So all of a sudden, Alan's, what about dolomite? He's like, dolo, and I'm like,
Mark D. Williams 03:54
genius. Soon as you heard it, you know.
Jessica Matterson 03:56
So I come from a sports background, and he comes from an alternative sports background. And so for us, it sounded a little like surfy skateboarding. So it's, oh, well, that's fun. Let's run with it.
Mark D. Williams 04:10
Have you guys been to the Dolomites in Italy?
Jessica Matterson 04:13
No, I get asked that all the time. I think you
Mark D. Williams 04:15
might have to take a trip there. I
Jessica Matterson 04:16
know I hope to actually, within the next year, to actually learn how to pull plaster from some of the experts over there.
Mark D. Williams 04:24
Now I'm not familiar, and I guess, I guess, why don't we close out the branding stuff? Because I think that's really interesting, and I can totally relate to you. In terms of about two years ago, I went through branding exercise right when I started the curious builder podcast. My my other company is Mark D Williams custom home, so it's just does not need a semi truck to fit all those words on it. So I can definitely, I would love to have something simple and clever, like dolo. Plus I love the mountain. So dolomite is that's a great abbreviation. But anyway, so I can very much relate to the how do you identify it? How does it become a brand? And so many companies, especially construction companies, and those associated with the fields you. If you start younger, I started when I was 23 I don't know how old you guys were when you guys got started, but it's I never really thought about selling my company when I started it. And I very much regret naming it my own name for a number of reasons. And after 20 years, I feel like it's the cat's out of the bag there. I'm not sure I can really redo that, or I decided not to. Anyway, did when you How old were you guys when you started this? And walk us a little bit through the business side of things, maybe before we get into the art of plaster, which I'm very curious about. But was Alan obviously practicing plaster before you guys got married? Walk us a little bit through your I don't know where you came onto the scene and how that business formed. I always find it really interesting to hear, especially when you have husband and wife teams and how that works. We're
Jessica Matterson 05:41
both classically trained artists. We met in college, and we both have bfas. Mine is more of a photo design background, where Allen's is actually a little bit more pointed toward in the fine arts, like painting sculpture. So he's someone that just loves working with his hands, and I'm someone that just loves thinking. I like to pre think everything and then execute. So we're two very, completely different artists, which actually is helpful in the field, because sometimes you need to just get in there and do it and work with what's on the job site. And then there's other times that we've had pieces that were commissioned were actually artwork, and it was many meetings and lots of sample boards, and that's more up my alley kind of thing,
Mark D. Williams 06:30
because you have to sort of think about it. Design it ahead of time. You've got the client mindset around it. Yep. Interesting. How long have you guys had the business
Jessica Matterson 06:39
as dolo? We've probably been just a year, and we're in our 40s, so we're tackling this just a little bit late. But before that, we were doing plaster for about two years here and there. Alan has always been doing plaster since he started. He started 15, 1617, years ago, with a more prestigious artisan finishes firm in the cities, and decided to branch off from there, had a non compete that we honored out of respect and friendship for the person that owned the business. And within that time, we started a design build company. Oh, really.
Mark D. Williams 07:23
So you're building homes or remodeling, remodeling, okay, yeah, mostly around the cities, yep,
Jessica Matterson 07:29
yep. In the Cities area, I found out that I have a huge passion for design, and that's how I come at our business too, is very visual, but yet organized, whereas Alan, on the other hand, it's all hands on, as I mentioned before. And like when he gets in the flow, it's a true flow state, is what I call it. And he the trial, becomes like an extension of him, and he just starts making what we consider art
Mark D. Williams 07:57
that's really interesting. How did you know I think it's really courageous, especially to start. And I think really whenever you start running a business is really hard. Being an entrepreneur is really hard. What gave you the courage, both of you, to start the business, and how did you know it was what you wanted to do?
Jessica Matterson 08:14
I think we just wanted to work for ourselves and have a more flexible schedule. And I come from a family of entrepreneurs. So for me, it's not new. I understand the struggles. I understand when we have no work and we get creative and we fill that time with either marketing or sometimes other things to bring a little bit of income in. So for me, it's learned. For him, he's learning as we go, but he just as being very add he doesn't really work well with solid times. It's one of those things where he just needs to move at his pace.
Mark D. Williams 08:54
I feel like that obviously fits into the artist stereotype quite a bit as well. In that space, it's something actually envy as it's funny to hear that your husband, I always joke on the podcast that I have undiagnosed ADHD. And I very much think of artists as people that live in the moment they turn off their phones. And same with, I think dreamily of like architects and designers, that they would just have no just quiet Zen, like state. I know this is probably not true. I'm sure a lot of the architects out there are laughing right now, but and I know sometimes you have to block off time for silence. And I'm actually reading a book right now called pause, and it's just talking about the strength of a pause, and what could be I often talk about checking out to check in. So some of these bigger things on the daily practices, the moment you get up, it's hard to find quiet time. It's hard to find that mental restorative place, which I can imagine as an artist, he probably finds it in his work. Is that accurate to say that when you mentioned several times that he gets into this flow state, I think of running or writing where you don't have distractions, that's often described as the flow state. Would that be accurate? That is extremely
Jessica Matterson 09:57
accurate. He is someone that can tune in. Ian to what he's doing and get lost in it, whereas for me, my brain is like yours. It's just like, go, go, go, what? Wait, it's what's the next thing? Maybe we should do this. Maybe we should try that. It's my brain goes too fast where I can't stop, I can't pause, I don't I should read the book, because I don't know how to pause if I'm not moving. I feel like I'm wasting time, Whereas He, on the other hand, is definitely someone that embraces that moment and then just gets lost in it. I
Mark D. Williams 10:33
just tell me, if this resonates with you, this mental picture just came very clearly. I feel like, remember the Atari game? Pong? Yeah, I feel like that, Mike, my brain is the ball bouncing around all those bricks.
Jessica Matterson 10:45
That is so accurate, right?
Mark D. Williams 10:47
We've just self discovered what our emoji for our brain pattern is. I'm glad that. I'm glad that Alan gets to be relaxed in his work. I hope when he listens to this, he'll be like they'll just be in a Zen state. Let's talk a little bit about the business side of it, because husband and wives, obviously, you have your marriage and your relation. You guys have children or no, we have one okay. You have one child, one teenager. Teenager. Okay. Oh, a 13. On top of it, boy or girl, she
Jessica Matterson 11:09
Ellie. She actually helps me with video work version for social media. She learned with a little device, how to do the things that I actually learned working for a production studio. I find it interesting that she can edit just as good as I can. And
Mark D. Williams 11:25
then Amazing how my the root of my question is, how do you manage I always ask this questions to husband and wives, but how do you manage the business? And how do you manage the personal, like after hours, like around the dinner table? Are you a family that it's always on because you love it and because you'd enjoy talking about it, or are you a family unit that has to basically shut it off so you have that mental space to breathe on the nights and weekends? So
Jessica Matterson 11:48
that is a tough question, because we're still navigating that, and it changes, like some days, if it's a hard day, if I'm working, and then I have to go help burnish and then I have to come back and work, and then I get to a point where my brain just gets overloaded, and it's okay. I have to detach today, and he might come home and be like, hey, what about this? What about that? And I'm like, I can't I just can't absorb any more work right now. I need to just find something else to tune out for a while, because my brain just gets so overloaded, where there's other nights where it's like, we're up till nine o'clock talking about it and the passion of it and upcoming projects, and what are we going to do here, and what is something new we want to try? And it's fairies, and it's tough.
Mark D. Williams 12:35
Yeah, I agree with you 100% that it's even if, even though my spouse isn't in it, because any entrepreneur spouse is in it, whether they realize it or not, and whether you get energized by it or drained. It's a part of your life. And I think as you're communicating with your partner and your family, and there's a lot of highs too, like I think it's really neat that your daughter just get to seize she gets to witness this entrepreneurial spirit. She's watching you do what you both are doing, and she's it's informing her life too. I think sometimes as parents, I think, oh, when my kids get older, I'll invite them into the business. But honestly, I think even now, I can do things, and it's mainly just sharing your life. That's all that your children really want to do. I have three Simon the other day, he's six, he was sick, and so he got to come with me to work today. That may have been as best. He said that this is one of the best days of my year. I was like, wow. Okay, that was pretty easy. A bit. Went to job sites. He got to see the jobs. But it was actually really enjoyable for me too. And so I think sometimes as parents, we think that we have to shelter our kids from some of our work, but it's becoming clear to me that actually invite them in, even at a young age. They get they're very excited about it. Of course, they think I'm chopped liver compared to the excavator. You take him to a job site, and Troy, he's like the six foot five excavator, and, oh man, Troy's the best. So he let him sit on their lap one time and dig a hole. So there's not much I can do to combat that one.
Jessica Matterson 13:53
I worked for my parents growing up, and I think it was a huge impact on my life, on how I wanted to live mine, and I wasn't scared of being an entrepreneur. It does get scary when work is scarce. I know how to bounce back. And they got me started at I think I was 10 or 11 years old. My parents are serial entrepreneurs, so it's like they had many different businesses, and I worked pretty much all of them. And even though I didn't take over the family business, everything I learned from them is what I have brought into starting my own business. What
Mark D. Williams 14:30
were some of the businesses that they own? First one
Jessica Matterson 14:33
was Dairy Queen. I started decorating cakes before I could be, you know, old enough to wait on people. Sounds
Mark D. Williams 14:41
like a kid's dream, by the way. It's like one for you, one for me, and
Jessica Matterson 14:45
it was art.
Mark D. Williams 14:46
We have inventory issues. We're not sure. Jessica really seems to be losing a lot of popsicle and bomb pops in the hot days. Yeah.
Jessica Matterson 14:52
And then they had a paper supply company that had party added to it later on down in southeast Minnesota, and. Say, Oh, my dad did get an apartment that he rented out he had for a short period of time a lawn care service. So would
Mark D. Williams 15:07
he build them up and then sell them? Or do How did he No, so he just shut them down. Or, yeah,
Jessica Matterson 15:12
kind of fizzled out. Yeah, maybe that's where I get my ADHD from. For me, it was a great learning experience, and I wanted my daughter to grow up like I did, and I don't want her to have the pressures of work, but I want to build a good work ethic in her so that when she's released into the world and decides to go off on her own, she can take over our business if she wants to, or she can do whatever she wants.
Mark D. Williams 15:39
No, I think that's fantastic. This episode is brought to you by Pella Northland, for 20 years, I've been using Pella windows, and I couldn't be happier to call them as a business partner, a trade partner, and someone that really supports us in our quality builds. We use wood windows and doors on every single one of our homes, and 98% of every home that I've ever built has been a Pella window. I've gotten to know their team here, locally, as well as nationally, and the way that they support us as a craftsman as well as they support our homeowners with their lifelong guarantee. It's actually been a game changer for me. So when people ask me who I use, I recommend Pella. If you want to hear more about Pella story, you can listen to episode one, where I interview Peter and Ed from pela Northland about their journey into the Pella ownership. This episode is brought to you by adaptive. For over two years now, I've been using adaptive. It's an incredible game changer. It's AI technology based. It helps you with Bill Pay and as a builder, there's very few things that Angular subs more than not being paid on time. Those days are gone. Not only do you know exactly where you are, but you can pay people through your ACH channels, making draws extremely quick with one click of a button, which used to take hours, my office staff is now able to generate a draw to the bank or to the client in literally seconds. The thing that I appreciate the most about adaptive is their ability to keep changing. We've given them three or four feedbacks on things that we need as builders, and within just a few months those they're rolling those things out. This is saving us hours per week and days per month in terms of our efficiency. If you're looking to upgrade your business, I'd highly recommend adaptive. You can reach out to them@adaptive.com or listen to the curious builder podcast episode 15 or episode 80, where we dive into their origin story. My parents both. My dad was a builder, Mom was interior designer. And as a child, you don't realize what you're absorbing and learning. You just think that's your life. And so you're either an adult or a parent. Looking back, you're like, wow, those are some pretty informative things that you learned, and I can share some of mine. But what are you mentioned that you learned a lot from your parents? What are a couple takeaways that you find yourself doing now in your business that you could trace back and think, oh, wow, that was an imprint on because of my parents, good or bad work
Jessica Matterson 17:58
ethic. Dad is one. But you just got to keep going. You just got to go and go. But then being an optimist and always knowing that the sun is just over the next mountain, you're going to see it, you're going to get there, just hold on. And I think it's just that tenacity that I took from it, also something I my parents didn't have a choice. Their business was almost like a seven day a week. Some of their customers had opposite hours from when they worked and they needed stuff on the fly. And something I've learned is my business doesn't have to be that way. I know that I need time off, and we take the weekends off. And if you were to send me an email, I'm not going to respond on the weekend. Good for you. It's Monday. Is where I pick it up again. Isn't
Mark D. Williams 18:49
that funny? The turn of phrase. Just want to call attention to it. You said we we keep the weekends off, but that almost there's an underlying comment or thought pattern or vibe through that comment that, like, you have to tell people, like, oh, we take the weekends off. Like it would be expected that you should work, which is ridiculous. And I'm not saying the people we've all worked weekends when we've had to. I heck, this weekend, I have an open house on Saturday, so I'm not saying that you don't, but as a general rule, and I talk a lot about it, and it's taken me a long time. Frankly, it took until I got married as well to realize that the balance, and I think hopefully our spouses and those are in our family that love us and care for us can help us and ground us. Yeah, because I do love what I do, it'd be easy, excuse me, to work nights and weekends, but you will, you're gonna burn out like a Haley's comment. You can that's not sustainable, and so understanding I'm a huge, huge, huge I talk about all the time on the podcast, mainly just, I'm so passionate about it. I want it for other people too, and it they have, it's they have to make that choice for themselves. But I want them to know that our clients often can be very demanding, and that's okay to a certain degree, but I don't agree with this, the sentiment that the client. Is always right. I've never liked that saying because I just I don't like anything about it, and so it doesn't mean that we don't really want to make our client happy. Anyone who's an entrepreneur an artisan. I mean, literally, you're an artisan. Of course, you want people to love what you do. Of course you want to do a great job for them, like you go to the dentist. You don't go to dentist at nine o'clock at night on a Saturday. That's ridiculous. That would be who would? Nobody expects that. There's something about the construction field and all its operations, design and trade partners and subcontractor partners and vendors and all the people we work with, that there's this expectation that there's a 24/7 service center that's not healthy, and it should not be. And it's something that I know a lot of others like me, are we talk about it a lot because we want it to change, and I think it has changed, and I think we need to also be okay with walking away from work sometimes, yeah, and it's hard to do that every entrepreneur, even though I know that sometimes you take a job, you're like, I know this is going to challenge what I believe, and so it tests your mettle. Yeah. How? How have you found you know, even the reason I applaud you so much is even only one year into your business, there would be the temptation just be like, gotta work, work, work, work. I gotta build. The build, build, build, build. And I think I can tell you, in year 20, I still feel that way, like I don't know if that feeling really ever goes away. And I would love to get to a place where more more, just you're more at peace. And I'm not saying it doesn't come in its waves, but I don't know owner, owning a business is you're like a duck, even if you're calm on the surface feet or swimming. Yeah, it's not easy. Let's talk. Let's talk a little bit about plaster. I do just, I love plaster, and I actually don't know very much about it. Maybe I'll just prime it with this. I my favorite. Maybe. Let's see here, three of my favorite homes that I've been into in the last decade. All the walls in the homes were plaster. There's one on Lake Minnetonka that was in the luxury home tour about three four years ago. And then there was another home last year that was in Cottage wood that was incredible. And every single surface in the home was plaster, and it just the way it feels, the way it calms, the way it reflects light. Tell me about that. Am I wrong that most people instinctively feel drawn to plaster? Why is that they
Jessica Matterson 22:13
are drawn to plaster? It has nuance. It's beautiful. It has texture. Try smelling it sometimes. Oh, really, is it the lime or what's coming off the lime? Okay? Because plaster is that is a misconception that people have. They think it's a faux finish, or they think it's like paint, and it's, it's not, it's nothing. It's, it would be more compared to like tile, like a giant tile that is hand applied by an artisan or a trades person, and you can't stop moving. You got to keep moving to get that flow that that, we call it a signature. It's the way the trouble moves in a plaster hand. And everybody has a different signature, and you got to keep it going. If you have two people on a wall, you've got to keep it going. And then you got to swap, because you need that signature to intertwine interesting and it's what
Mark D. Williams 23:03
would it be analogous to? Like handwriting. Everyone's handwriting is so different in a way,
Jessica Matterson 23:07
and I've learned to pull the way Alan does, and it's exhausting he does, like really hard, short, fluid moment movements. And I really like these bigger, flowy movements for when it comes to pulling plaster, he's the boss, and so I mimic what he does, but I see why he's tired at the end of the day, when he comes home, and we just got done doing a giant barrel vault in a multi family building, and he's, I Need a break. He's my shoulder needs a break. So it's very physically intensive. It's extremely physical. And that's something that's different than paint, because people don't see that pressure that we put behind the blade to compress the stone. And that's where the shininess comes from. The burnish. What you're doing is you're taking all those stone particles, those granulars, and you're smooshing them fresh together.
Mark D. Williams 24:01
So that's when it gets really smooth. If you've ever touched plaster, there's sometimes it feels like a car finish. It's so smooth that's from pressure. Yes, okay.
Jessica Matterson 24:08
And there's actually many, many different types of plasters, and there's many plaster companies that kind of make similar plasters or different plasters, and you have plasters that are going to have a high shine with maybe a lot of movement, you're going to have a plaster maybe that's more textural and actually looks like stone. It's all like the type of stone used, the granular size, that Shiny Stone we one of the ones we use. It's called Florencia, and most of these are Italian plasters. They come from Italy. So that's one reason why our material is not necessarily priced like paint, because it comes over the seat and it's made by people over in Italy. The stone is mined over in Italy. And is it
Mark D. Williams 24:50
like a paste? Like, how is it? Maybe you get us in, it's
Jessica Matterson 24:53
like a slurry. And usually, if I have people come to our studio, I'll have them feel plaster. So. So like we have tetel Act, which is water resistant plaster. It's, you put it in your hand and you can feel the different granular size. There's big, there's small. And then the Florencia that I was talking about, it actually feels like toothpaste. It's the marble is so fine that you really even can't feel it. But it's marble content is higher than most plasters, and that's where you can get that shine
Mark D. Williams 25:24
interesting. Can you I saw a picture the other day, and I had no idea you could do this, and I, I guess tile is porous, like, I'm thinking of like a shower. So we see traditional shower tile where you're doing your your wall, membranes, things like that, and then you'll put on your tile. But tile, a lot of tiles, are not they're the porous, right? It goes through the grout, it hits the water. Membrane, comes down and drains. So it's essentially tiles. Essentially, it's a visual water protected. It's not waterproof. Yeah, I didn't realize that you can do a plaster shower. Yes,
Jessica Matterson 25:53
it is very much tile. It actually does have small pores and small cracks that air flow can flow through. And of course, when it comes to a shower or something like that, your waterproofing comes with the membrane. It doesn't come with right the top material. And that is misconception when we're doing plasters in bathrooms. But the beautiful thing about plaster, and this is getting into the health benefits of plaster, which are so vast, but plaster is breathable, and it actually pulls carbon dioxide out of the air in order to cure. So it's pulling like
Mark D. Williams 26:35
continuously, or once it cures, it's done, nope,
Jessica Matterson 26:37
continuously, continuously. So they're breathing walls, really, air does pass through plaster. Oh, fascinating. Yeah, because they're tiny, little micro cracks, interesting.
Mark D. Williams 26:48
I mean, like a tree obviously continues to breathe, but it's a live thing. How could a dead thing like stone, how could it keep on breathing? Let's say I own a home for 1015, years, or 20 years, or 100 years. You're saying that entire time that it's breathing, taking carbon dioxide out the
Jessica Matterson 27:02
lime. And it also is a humidity buffering, or humidity buffering, it will pull moisture out of the air when it's hot and humid, and when we get into a dry season, it releases that moisture back in to space, and people don't understand it, like paint, plastic paint doesn't do that. It's meant to seal off all that. And with plaster, it's recommended for people that have breathing issues or asthma, because of that process of pulling the carbon dioxide out of the air. That's
Mark D. Williams 27:38
fascinating. Now I really want. I just made a note I am going to do a plaster shower in my model home, because I now I want to try it out. Keep
Jessica Matterson 27:45
in mind, all plasters are not water resistant, right? And even if you throw a concrete sealer or something on there, they're not you have to have a specific plaster like Title Act that goes into what environments and tele Act has been used for centuries over in Morocco and bath houses and homes, so
Mark D. Williams 28:04
it would obviously hold up really well if it's breathing. So let's go through the shower example. So what would be the maintenance, or how would it be different than, let's say, large format tile in a shower? It's no different. It's
Jessica Matterson 28:14
really no different. It's just one giant tile. I like the fact that
Mark D. Williams 28:18
there's no seams, and that's really seamless. I'm thinking of a shower niche, how it would fold in with no seams or the grout lines would be phenomenal looking.
Jessica Matterson 28:26
But think of it as one giant tile. It still needs to have that silicon bead at the bottom, like between the floor and the wall. You have to treat it as such.
Mark D. Williams 28:38
Is that because it still is it flexible, because if, let's say your house settles, will plaster crack if
Jessica Matterson 28:44
your substrate cracks. So this is where we get into the substrate. And when we start doing Cadillac, like in a bathroom, I meet with the contractor, and I explain how the substrate has to be, because if it's not done right, it will crack. So
Mark D. Williams 28:59
give me an example. So we're gonna, let's say we're gonna do this in my shower, so we've got it framed up. Are you putting on, like a dura rock or some sort of something like that? Backer,
Jessica Matterson 29:09
Hardy back party. Backer, okay, it doesn't flex dura rock does. It won't crack, so it's hardier, and because it won't crack, it won't make the plaster crack. Okay? So that's the ideal substrate, and then you have to red guard it. That's your water, and that's the water breaking. What
29:27
you would do? Yeah.
Jessica Matterson 29:28
And then we come in after that and start applying. Are
Mark D. Williams 29:31
you doing the floor as well? Or is the floor usually a tile? We
Jessica Matterson 29:34
recommend tidal act, not be on the floor, slippery or it? No, it's just it's not meant to hold water. It's meant to repel water, gotcha so you can use it on the walls, but you want to use tile on the floor. If we're going that way, you'd want to start going into micro cements. So because those are more chemically made, so they have binders and they have resins that are supposed to keep. The water from penetrating it interesting. Whereas Title Act is natural, and most plasters that come from Europe have to be, they have to meet certain standards. And with Italian plasters, they can only be at the most 3% synthetic. So when you're getting plaster, it's a natural material.
Mark D. Williams 30:21
What is Do we not have the rights? And I know a lot of our materials come from overseas, thinking, obviously the marbles and the stones, but like you're cutting it and it's open, and that slab of marble is wherever we're getting it from the stone that we're getting. Do we not have those stones in the United
Jessica Matterson 30:37
States for Title Act and things like that? There are. You have to be a really good chemist to know how to make plaster. But we actually use some lime paints and lime washes that this stone comes from the Great Lakes region. It's made in Canada, and it just comes over the border.
Mark D. Williams 30:54
What do you mean by you have to be a good chemist.
Jessica Matterson 30:56
This is going into an area I'm not so great at right now.
Mark D. Williams 31:00
Yeah, that's okay, yeah,
Jessica Matterson 31:02
I think I got an F in chemistry. I
Mark D. Williams 31:05
didn't do great in chemistry. Either it's just
Jessica Matterson 31:07
knowing, like the formula that you need to be able to make
Mark D. Williams 31:12
plaster. Is that something that Alan has to do in the field, or is it coming that way? We
Jessica Matterson 31:17
purchase all our plasters from the Plaster Center a local store, and we use what is available to us. There could be a fail rate with plaster, if you were to make it yourself. Some people out there do, and usually that's more of the faux finish they're adding, like synthetics to it. If plaster isn't made right? It delaminates, it cracks. It falls apart. Lime washes, they we call it releasing. So if you put the lime wash on the wall and you run your hand over it before you seal it, and your hand is the color of the wall, like it's pulling the pigment off the wall, the chemistry is not right in that plaster, interesting or lime
Mark D. Williams 32:00
you had just only because you've said pull many times. You mentioned even like when Alan is pulling plaster, why is it referred to with that? I mean, you're pulling the stone across the wall. Is that why it's called pulling?
Jessica Matterson 32:12
We use blades, and there's special specific blades, and most of the blades that we use actually, all do come from Europe, and they're not cheap, they're not drywall blades. They're not gypsum blades. They're specific, really sharp blades that are intentionally made for our craft, and they will cut you like it's common to get cut by your blade because they're that sharp, interesting,
Mark D. Williams 32:40
I suppose, as the blade is coming off and releasing that edge has to be they're defining the edge for a specific how many knives would Allen be working with, if he's working on a wall Exactly? Is that what they call them knives? We just call them
Jessica Matterson 32:52
blades or trowels, two to three, depending on what finish he's doing. We just finished one of those beautiful kind of like clay coat plasters on a barrel vault. And we're both on this tiny little lift of the baker, and he's going between two blades at the time, and he has a bigger blade and then a smaller blade. And the smaller blade is for the burnishing, where the bigger blade is for the application of the plaster. And when we're up there together, like it can be you, he has a flip of the wrist, and it's really cool to watch him pull plaster, because he'll just pull plaster, and all of a sudden he flips drawl, and then he keeps pulling when you're working that close to him, though you just want to make sure your face, like, stays away when that blade is coming and flipping because it would cut you. Wow.
Mark D. Williams 33:45
From a take a higher step back a little bit. Who usually, I love plaster. I've been building for 20 years, and it's only been the last five, six years that I usually get like a fireplace with some plaster or the hood, and that's about it. Why talk to us a little bit about who's usually the decision maker and bringing plaster into a job? Is it the client, the designer, the architect, the builder, or just start with that, who
Jessica Matterson 34:11
mainly the designer, usually the designer, yep, yep. And that's why I go to networking events. And it's easy me, for me to relate to designers, because I have a design background as well, and I form these relationships with designers, and then I educate. I love pulling in designers and everybody into our studio, and sometimes we even do demos and we'll explain, this is how it's done. And it's really interesting to see people be like, Oh, wow. And it's the designers, mainly, sometimes the architects or the builders will spec it, but usually it's the designers who I communicate with
Mark D. Williams 34:52
from a out east. I've got a friend, Nick schifr, with NS builders, and they're in Boston, and so I don't know if it's just because it's older out there. It seems like it makes it sound like he doesn't do a ton of sheetrock. They do a lot of plaster. On the East Coast, in the Midwest, it's primarily dominated by gypsum border drywall. Yep. Any comments on why that is?
Jessica Matterson 35:11
Our thoughts? It's better for you. It's more sustainable.
Mark D. Williams 35:15
No, I know that. Why is the areas so like, why are we so predominantly drywall. It's better, it's more beautiful. I mean, is the cost that much more? We'll talk a little bit about cost. But is, or is the East Coast just have more older homes had plaster. So more people are used to keeping plaster in even the new homes. It
Jessica Matterson 35:32
would be that because they want to keep the design consistent through the whole home, which we have been pulled in here to do plaster walls, but it's a trend. It's just a trend. And here, drywall is what people know. So drywall is what people use. It's just people don't know that plaster is an option.
Mark D. Williams 35:53
Agree that's an educational gap. What do you think, obviously, the podcast right now is hopefully educating people to try out plaster. What do you think the barriers of entry are? Is it simply education, like when you go to these events? And I think we met maybe at one of my curious builder events the first time. Did you come to one of our live events last year? Or no, I think you came to the Welch one. Didn't you the one at the wedding venue in St Paul? Yes, yeah, that was the first one. Because you have some killer shoes. And I think every time I see you, I'm like, Oh, you have some rock and shoes, and you've got some really cool cow hide. We'll have to get a picture and put it on when we air this one, because you always have the greatest shoes. Anyway, I digress. My My point is like, how are you finding designers reacting when you're meeting? I assume business development is a big part of your job. You're calling on designers, you're bringing samples to their showroom, or walk us a little bit how designers are receiving you and how that process is going 90%
Jessica Matterson 36:44
it's great. They love what they see. They now understand what it is and why it has a higher price point than, say, any other surface treatment. It's the I have one designer that I just educated her about it in the last month, and now she wants to use it everywhere. And I'm just like, let's do it. Let's bring it into our market. People need to start seeing it here, and it's hard because plaster gets the stereotype of the really bad Tuscan kitchen, and plaster has come so far since then, and that was just a trend. So that's why it looks that way. Plaster can be old world, plaster can be new and modern. Plaster can be smooth and reflective, and plaster can be a texture. It all depends on what plaster you're using and what the stone content is of the plaster it's there's no boundaries, especially if you're working with someone that's an artisan like us, like we creatively problem solve. Like, if we haven't done it, it doesn't mean we can't do it. If you come to us and this is your vision, this is what you want to do, we're like, we're going to make that happen.
Mark D. Williams 37:55
Where are the most common places that you see plasters as a starting point. I think I'll just use myself. For example. Hood would be a common one. I would imagine in fireplaces. What other surfaces do you see that is probably the next hurdle if someone was going to get let's say I'm here for those not watching no plaster to the right side here, which would be, everything is plaster. What is the evolution of how you've seen people make their decision? What are some of the stepping stones? What's my next stepping stone?
Jessica Matterson 38:23
It is a price point. So usually doing hoods and fireplaces keeps plaster affordable, so people can still enjoy it, but have it if you're starting to do all your walls, you're looking into a multi million dollar house at that point, unless the client is that's my number one thing I need in my house is plaster walls, which does not happen. So when you're starting to do larger surfaces that those are going to be higher end homes, because that's those are the people that are willing to pay so this is where like lime paint came around. Is lime paint gives you the look of plaster at a much more affordable price point. But that is actually a faux finish. It is trying to look and be like plaster, but it does not have the durability of plaster. As I said, plaster is stone, so once it fully cures, which it's fully dry in 24 hours, but it takes six months to fully cure. It is stone that wall is going to be around for 100 years, whereas, like your drywall, even if you line paint it, it's going to get scuffed, it's going to get, doubt, gouged. You're going to have to repair it, replace it, paint over it.
Mark D. Williams 39:31
Now, just thinking my three little kids, I assume plaster obviously, I would imagine would clean stone. So if you got it smudged up drywall paint touch ups, I assume you don't have to deal with that, with plaster walls correct, there
Jessica Matterson 39:42
are touch up. If you take a hammer to it, just if you take a hammer to tile, I'm not thinking
Mark D. Williams 39:46
of tile, I'm thinking of fingerprints, or
Jessica Matterson 39:48
we seal the plaster. Okay, yeah, so it's and it depends what sealant we use for what plaster we're using, because limestone is porous, it will take on moisture, something that. That we've run into, though, is if we do a bathroom in plaster and we seal it and it gets wet, you're gonna see the tiny, little micro cracks, and you're gonna see it's gonna pull in that moisture, but when it dries, it all goes away. Interesting, that's the movie of the seal. It's
Mark D. Williams 40:15
like a living finish. It's cement to patina. Is that accurate? It's gonna move Cadillac.
Jessica Matterson 40:19
If you seal it with the traditional soap sealer, it is meant to patina for the American market. People don't like that patina as much, so we end up sealing it with like a cement sealer instead. That's going to keep it a little bit more clean and crisp looking.
Mark D. Williams 40:35
I think one thing that you if you're a builder, thinking about a remodeler, thinking about doing more plaster, you're also going to get the credit on the painting, because now you don't have to paint. I guess. The question would be, if you're doing let's say you're doing base, let's say you do a six inch base, and let's say you enamel it, so you're enameling the base, and then would the plaster go on second, or would it go on first?
Jessica Matterson 40:55
It can go either way. Okay, if the base is put on, like if the finisher has put the base on, but maybe it's not painted yet. We prefer to come in after the painters, because it's a lot easier to get plaster off paint than it is to get paint off plaster.
Mark D. Williams 41:10
Yeah. Interesting, good to know. Well, interesting, how you would apply plaster to a sheet rock wall? I think because out in Boston, they don't use a lot of drywall, from what I understand, what would be their backer boards that you're applying your plaster to.
Jessica Matterson 41:23
You can apply it directly to drywall. Okay, yep,
Mark D. Williams 41:26
so you'd say you would save money on taping then and finish. You
Jessica Matterson 41:30
still need to tape, because the drywall, when it shifts, which it all shifts, oh yeah, it's still going to if it doesn't have that tape there, it's still going to crack. So that tape is like your band aid, that kind of keeps, keeps it. So if you if the tape job is bad and the plaster cracks, or if they didn't tape at all, which we have run into before, it's gonna crack, and if we come back in and do it, we're gonna do it almost similar to what the drywall I've done. So
Mark D. Williams 42:01
you do need to take this you're not really saving any money. Is there another substrate that you would plaster over? Sounds like you could plaster over anything. I think you I've had you guys plaster over wood before. You can plaster over any solid surface has to be
Jessica Matterson 42:14
primed with a mineral based primer so it sticks. Yep, because otherwise that wood or drywall, it will pull the moisture out of the stone too fast, and then you get cracking that way as well. Plastering
Mark D. Williams 42:26
has been around a long time before drywall even existed. What did they plaster to black? But that's
Jessica Matterson 42:31
a different type of plaster. Yeah, that's another misconception. Misconception that we have is people think we're that type of plaster, and that's a gypsum based plaster. Our plaster is more in the fine finishing end. It's what like in Europe, when they plaster, they're plastering on stone over there. So if, like, it's a poured concrete or something like that, they're plastering directly on stone. It's the American market that plasters on drywall. Interesting, yep. And so that's a nice thing for us, is, since we have that build background, we can come in, re inspect the wall, and say, this needs to be fixed. That needs to be fixed. See that crack in the drywall, if it's an actual fissure like that needs to be taped and mudded. That would be
Mark D. Williams 43:14
super helpful having remodeled now, I can see why that would be so helpful from a selling standpoint, because you're making as me as the builder, you're making me look better, not only to the client, but also to my warranty and to your own product. By saying, mark this bathroom or this wall is not going to work, because we're going to have issues with it. But now that was that experience that you got while you were remodeling. Are you do you still do some remodeling as well? Or no,
Jessica Matterson 43:35
not really. Okay, I may design on the side, maybe a project or two a year. But right now, this business is keeping me on my toes. Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 43:44
sounds like it. How are you do you have multiple people? How big is the company? Or is it just you and Alan? It's just Alan and Ian. How many like how do you regulate the what Alan can do and jobs that you have in Q? How are you finding, basically balancing the business that you do have is regulating the timing with what it whatever jobs Alan on Alan is on to the next person in queue. We've
Jessica Matterson 44:07
learned through doing just in the beginning, it was easy for me to do pretty much everything when talking to a client, but now it's gotten to the point where I'm stretched more thin. We have a lot more projects going on. So if a repair comes in, I directly go to Alan, because as much as I know the chemistry, or not the chemistry, let's take that back. As much as I know plaster, he has a better idea of how to fix it, so he can actually go in and color, match and match the material and the texture and make it look like it never even was there.
Mark D. Williams 44:47
Does that happen a lot. So if you were to hang pictures, or you're puncturing a hole through your plaster, you just gave me an eye roll that says, Don't do that. So how would you hang art? How would that come down from an art rack, from the scene? Or how are we putting things on the wall? You
Jessica Matterson 45:01
can put things on the wall the same way you put a picture, except for you want to use a masonry bit to drill into the wall. You never want to hammer a nail because the plaster is going to chip, yep. If you want to pay the plaster to come back out and fill the holes and make it so they were never there. So you can put art in different places, then it's that's a budget thing. Otherwise, just keep your art same, Yeah, same
Mark D. Williams 45:29
location. Make sure you hide in all the holes. Yeah. Make sure keep going up. Don't go down, yeah. But no, they're all repairable. Yep, yep. That was, that was one of my questions, even in dry, even in drywall everywhere. The thing that I like about plaster is that it reflects light irregular. So I wonder, does that actually help you or hurt you? With clients, we build so many homes with a lot of glass exposure and southern exposure, we get all this natural light. And the human eye is incredible. You can look at a flat level five drywall finish, and you can spot the even the best framer and the best floating job, you can still see little undulations, right? Does plaster help with that? Because it's expected that you're going to have variability, or does that not
Jessica Matterson 46:09
actually, and this is why I come in and inspect like at least once before we start, because nail pops will be seen. Any imperfection in the wall is just going to be heightened
Mark D. Williams 46:19
so nail pops will go through plaster.
Jessica Matterson 46:22
Oh yes, plaster is not a filler. That's another misconception we have is we can't fill cracks. We can't level out a nail pop.
Mark D. Williams 46:32
So those little bulges are like the little Yeah, yeah. Plaster is
Jessica Matterson 46:36
actually, this is where the new micro cement comes from, because it's micro, fine paper, thin layers of veneer. That is what plaster is. Yep,
Mark D. Williams 46:45
yeah. So any imperfections underneath will just translate above. And
Jessica Matterson 46:49
we need anywhere, if it's a textured plaster, level four, if it's like a high polished Venetian, definitely a level five.
Mark D. Williams 46:56
So how does that work? Then, so even on the walls, you need a level five too. Then, wow. Okay, I can see why this gets more and more expensive. Unfortunately, how homes move all the time we come back at in Minnesota, we have to warranty our homes for 10 years. One year we come back for a craftsmanship, nail, pop, tape, cracking things like that, or letting loose. What happens when you have the substrate below is not performing. So do you have to basically do micro surgery? You've got to open up your plaster, get back, fix whatever the nail pops are, and then replaster and blend it in, yep, so
Jessica Matterson 47:31
it comes back to whoever built the wall, but a house settles. That's not really anybody's fault. Yeah, that's that is something that people have to understand. The thing is, there's a fix. We can still come in and still blend it. That's
Mark D. Williams 47:43
the main thing, is that you can blend it. I mean, they do in drywall all the time. The problem sometimes with drywall, especially on a level five finishes. Let's say you have a big let's say you have a big, great room and kitchen with no beams. I mean, it might span 3040, feet, and usually the luster of the new paint. So you might fix that drywall crack. You might paint it. And it's not as simple as just even though we do flat paint a lot on the ceilings, you oftentimes have to repaint the entire ceiling because your eye is so good at pick picturing out the slight texture of the nap of the of the roller or the sprayer or whatever is that. How does that translate? Let's say you had some cracking and plaster. Would you have to float out the whole wall to make it match or not. So
Jessica Matterson 48:23
it depends. It depends how bad the crack is. If it's like a tiny little crack, yeah, we do have to go beyond the crack and feather in the material. And this is where you see the expertise of somebody that does it. This is not an area where you want to skimp and just have somebody else say, Hey, look at this plaster. Can you fix it? And I don't know, really know what plaster is, but okay, I've seen that, and it doesn't look right, but yeah, it's the blending of the material back in sometimes, if it's sealed with a wax, which is cera wax, is a material that we use to seal frequently, we do sometimes have to sand that back because that it's protective layer, and then we have to fix the crack, feather it out, and then relax over it. For
Mark D. Williams 49:06
those that are remodelers or builders out there that are listening, that want to do plaster in their warranty line item, should they be carrying some sort of dollar amount forward to cover their one year callbacks, knowing that they'll have it like a drywall? For instance? Let's just say, on a new home, let's say it's a 4000 5000 square foot house, maybe our drywall bill is, I don't know, 28 to 30,000 I'll probably keep a $3,000 allowance that's miscellaneous, just to cover dings and cracks and whatnot, and then I'll have a warranty line item that just covers all kinds of things at at the end of one year. Is that enough? Or should I be having a dedicated line item for plaster repairs after one year of settling it
Jessica Matterson 49:44
it? It does depend on the type of plaster, if it's Cadillac or something like that. Yeah, I would recommend maybe having an extra cush on that, if it's just something more simple, like a very flat. More Merino, not so much. Okay? And it depends where you put it. If you're putting it on a stone base or Hardy backer, then no, you're not gonna have any cracking at all. But if you're putting on a drywall and it's a whole wall or a whole room and a ceiling, that's something you might want to budget for.
Mark D. Williams 50:17
Yeah, I think just talk to your local artisan blaster individual and see what they recommend. Very interesting. Do you feel you're an artist? Do you feel like you get to scratch your creative itch? It feels like Alan gets to obviously, he gets shoulders, but he's in his flow state. Do you how do you recharge your creative sense, or do you find enough creative freedom in what you're doing to if it feels like you're doing a lot of the operations, how are you you're an artist. How do you scratch that itch? Sometimes,
Jessica Matterson 50:44
if it's a bigger job, I'll come in and it's fun. I hate straight painting. I love plaster, like it's just going from a brush to a blade. It's just the moving of the material, the sound it makes. It's just so much more satisfying. But you have to know what you're doing, because you're at the mercy of the dry time. And through that, I have found enjoyment, and I actually make art on the side with leftover plaster when I have time. But in that way, I get to learn the material even more of what not to do with it and what to do with it, but that is how I come in. And sometimes get to do fun artistic things. Sometimes, if we're doing a marble wall or something that even has more character, that's when I might come in too again. Al and I are different artists. Our lines are different. We did the beautiful plaster marble wall at Maison Margot. And it's it was one of those things where, as we were in the preliminary meetings deciding what it was going to look like, the chef kept liking my movement better. And it's one of those things where that wall is actually beautiful, like piece of artwork that my husband and I actually did together, because it has his sharp lines, and it has my curvy like veining in it as well. And that is the first project I ever touched. And I just I felt so much more worth when I was in the field and not on a day to day basis, because I'm my shoulder couldn't keep up with it. I couldn't keep up with the physicality of the job. But it is fun to step in on occasion and pull the plaster and do the more artistic veining when it's a marble finish. And by actually learning how to pull the material, it helps me better with how to advise on the substrate and how to sell the material. And it's for me, it just opens up the material more. To me, I am a great salesperson for things that I love and that I'm passionate about. I couldn't sell you something I didn't like.
Mark D. Williams 53:05
I completely agree. Yeah, when it's first person and when you're passionate about it, it comes out and your pores, how do you what do you see as the future the next year to three years? What is your hopes for the business
Jessica Matterson 53:17
just always being booked, but maybe enough time to do like art on the side would be ideal. We love to travel. Hopefully we have some cabins up north that we can travel to. Or we did one travel job this year down in Florida where we did a hood in the ceiling. We do love to travel, and also doing new finishes like we want people that come to us for what we've done, and we can do anything that you see on Pinterest and what's on social media. But we love the challenge of a designer coming to us and being like, here's this wallpaper sample. Can you make something that looks like this? And we'll be like, yeah, we can, and then that way you don't have seams, and it's durable, and it's beautiful, and it's healthy, and it's humidity buffering, and it just there's so many pluses to using plaster. I
Mark D. Williams 54:13
think the health side of it is really intriguing to me, yep, and especially as we talk more about what we breathe. We had someone on the podcast not too long ago, Jonathan Kramer from eversphere, and he just made a comment that has still been rocking my world, that 90% of our time is spent indoors, and I'm just blown away at that number. And between sleeping in the office and those types of things, we talk about, what we eat, we talk a lot about exercise, there's not a lot of conversations about what we breathe. I've been marvel at our lungs. You know, what our lungs can process? I do think that, being that we're in the home building business, and there's a lot of technology innovations and things like that, we're becoming more and more mindful, especially where we were 1015, years ago, VOCs and paints and formaldehydes and off gassing, and it's we're still have a long ways to go, but at least the conversation. Stations are happening. And so I think it's interesting how some of these old forms, like plaster, turns out they're a lot healthier for us. And so going back to some of those older things, which is really interesting to
Jessica Matterson 55:10
me, you know, even if you want to invest in lime paint, it's so much better than an acrylic like latex.
Mark D. Williams 55:16
How you mentioned that it's not as it doesn't last as long. Walk me through that what's going to happen to it exactly.
Jessica Matterson 55:21
It will like it has the same kind of it's going to be just like a painted wall. If you bump up against it, if it draws on it, we do seal it, especially if you have an environment that has kids, or if it's if you put plaster in a bathroom minus the wet area, we still recommend sealing it, and that sealing is what protects it, but, sorry, oh, that's
55:54
okay. Brain
Jessica Matterson 55:54
ADHD, yeah, it just it's there, and then it's gone. It's more affordable, but it doesn't last as long. And that's the thing about plaster is stone, lime paint, lime wash. They're still lime, but they don't cure hard like plaster does.
Mark D. Williams 56:11
I mean, just most people would probably repaint their walls probably every 10 to 15 years. Is that similar lifespan of lime paint? Yeah, yeah, something like that. Okay, so, nothing too different, but it would. But now I'm really curious about it, to see, what do you guys do lime painting as well
Jessica Matterson 56:26
we do, yep, okay, it's Alan is he prefers doing the higher end finishes, and that is what's really good at personally, since I'm more like entry level, sometimes I actually love lime paint and lime wash. Sure, it's fun. It's easier. It doesn't hurt your shoulder as much,
Mark D. Williams 56:47
yeah, how it is. So let's say you were to get a four or 5000 square foot house, and someone has to say, hey, I want all the walls done. I've heard of other times where you work with other artisans that are I have a plaster individual that I use, and he's a lone wolf operation. How does if you and Alan were to do one house that's that big, how long would that take, and would you do it solo, or would you bring in other artisans to help? Like, how much time? Like, from a time standpoint, like traditionally, let just for let's take away the enameling of all the cabinet trees. So let's say it's going to take two to three weeks to enamel all the trim, paint, all the walls, all that stuff. We still have to paint a lot of the wood surfaces. But how much time could somebody budget or expect to do plaster on all the walls? So
Jessica Matterson 57:33
a hood is two to three days, depending on the complex and complexity and the nuance of the plaster fireplace, about a week can end up being six days. Alan is a bit of a perfectionist, and he will, if he needs to put more time into his finish, he will, at no extra cost. We want it to be perfect. If we were to do a full room, that might be more like two weeks. Maybe, if there's two of us, it might be a week and a half if we were to be doing a whole house. There's a community of plasters, and I have people. I know what their strong suits are in this community, and I can pull them in if that was,
Mark D. Williams 58:16
that was what I gathered from this other individual as well they were working on a huge part of it was the house was, you know, beyond normal in terms of size, and so it sounded like there was a number of different plaster artists working together. I was curious to your point overseeing it, or like a point person, because everyone has a different signature or flow rate, that would be. And maybe I would imagine that you and your other contemporary artists would probably recognize it maybe easier than I would, not knowing what I'm looking at. Would that be correct? Yes,
Jessica Matterson 58:45
and that's something that Alan has a past in. He actually was a head plaster and a crew lead for the plaster company he worked for years ago. He worked with them for eight years, and his job was to step back, look at the wall and rotate the plaster. Sure if you notice that the finish was starting to look off, and signatures were very different, yeah. And I tell that to people when, even with lime wash, rotate. If it's two people, three people, four people, you have to rotate, yeah, because that way it's going to look like one giant finish versus, okay, it's cloudy over there, but it's x, y over here, it's yeah, that
Mark D. Williams 59:26
makes a lot of sense. Yep, yeah. As we wind down here, maybe just on a personal note, what you mentioned you like to travel for pleasure? What are? What are some other business models that you either really enjoy or like to further your own businesses? Do you like to read? Are you a podcast listener? How do you get ideas for how you and Alan should create your business?
Jessica Matterson 59:46
I love listening to podcasts yours, included, which I've actually learned a lot for our business, because I take bits and pieces out of every episode, I get inspiration by. Magazine. I look through a lot of magazines. I love Pinterest. I think it's amazing for ideas. Instagram. Instagram is something that I love being on, because it always feeds me what I'm looking at and what I'm doing and what plasters are doing in Europe. And all of a sudden I'm like, oh, but what if I did this with that plaster? Or, wait, what if we did this differently and made this like handmade travel of this texture, and I am, from a design standpoint, I always love seeing what's going to be the next thing I don't like doing what's popular. I have my hood vent in my kitchen, and it hasn't been done yet, because every time we're going to plaster it, all of a sudden, that plaster technique becomes popular. Oh, and I don't want to look at it and I'm like, I don't want to see what everybody else has in their home. I want to see something different. It's for me, I'm a dreamer, and I like to envision new things, and what can we do differently? Yeah, I love it. I
Mark D. Williams 1:01:04
love it. We'll have all your contact information in the show notes. You've got a great Instagram. So if you're out there listening, you're going to want to look at dolo artisan finishes, and I'm just looking at your some of your videos here. I can't wait to go back and look at them. You got some great reels and watch Allen and Ian work. Thank you very much for your time and coming on, and that's all till next week. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the curious builder podcast. If you like what you listen to, please give us a five star rating and write us a review. It really means a lot. It's a great way for us to just understand what you like about the podcast and what we can keep doing so in review and please share with your friends and family. Find out more at curious builder podcast.com you.
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