Episode 40 - Growing a Glass company through culture and relationships with Mike & Andrew LeJeune

Dec 10

Episode #40 | Mike & Andrew LeJeune | Glass and Mirror Minnesota

Mike and Andrew LeJeune discuss growing their family glass business, Glass Art Design, through culture, relationships, improving systems, and treating employees and customers with respect.

Listen to the full episode:

About Mike & Andrew LeJeune

Mike and Andrew both came from commercial and industrial construction in industries unrelated to glass. Mike first as CEO of LeJeune Steel and then as CEO of Fabcon for 25 years. Andrew worked in New Orleans as an Area Manager for Viking Fire Protection, a subsidiary of APi Group. Mike left Fabcon in 2016 after the company's sale to private equity and bought GlassArt in 2017, hiring his son Lucas to learn the business and eventually enter sales. GlassArt Design has almost doubled in size since Andrew joined in January 2021, partly due to their acquisition of Glass & Mirror Outlet (now Glass & Mirror Minnesota) and partly due their push into multifamily and tract housing builders. They are both actively involved in multiple organizations within their communities, including Housing First, NARI, and Associated Builders & Contractors. Mike and his wife live in Wayzata as an empty nester with kids and grandkids spread out from London to Okinawa. Andrew lives in Shorewood with his wife, 3 young kids, a hunting dog, and many chickens.

Resources:

Website:
https://www.glassartdesign.com/
https://glassandmirrorminnesota.com/
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/glassartdesign/
https://www.instagram.com/glassandmirrorminnesota/
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/GlassArtDesignInc/
https://www.facebook.com/GlassMirrorMinnesota
LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/glassart-design
https://www.linkedin.com/company/glass-and-mirror-minnesota
Other:
https://www.pinterest.com/GlassArtDesign/

EcoLuxe Silicone FINAL 2 - Andrew LeJeune.jpg

GlassArt Design Frameless shower - Andrew LeJeune.jpg

GlassArt Design Fused Flower Panel - Andrew LeJeune.jpg

Mark D. Williams 0:03
All right. Welcome to curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host today I'm joined with Mike and Andrew lagoon from glass art design. Welcome, guys. Thanks for coming in. Thank you for having me. Turns out the second time's the charm, we recorded, what a couple of months ago. And turns out, we had mics. We had Mike's mic turned off. So that's one way to sound like get a silent partner in a business, by the way. So introduce yourself to our audience, if they're not aware of you, you guys are a father and son team. And we've had a lot of husband and wife teams on I've never had family on. So I think it's kind of unique story to share. So we'll talk a little bit about that. But tell us a little bit about class art design and kind of your origin story, if you will, Mike, and then we'll bring in Andrew. Okay,
Mike Lejune 0:42
so I've spent my whole career in construction, but mostly commercial construction. So we save a family business college and steel, which still exists, my grandfather started it my dad purchased it from him and I was working in the business and, and thought I would take over some day. But it was just a very stressful business for my dad and he sold it back in 1989. Well, the guy who bought it, Lee Anderson, who owns the API group a couple years later ended up making me CEO and I did that for four or five years and then I got recruited to Fabcon that makes precast concrete wall panels and I was the CEO there for 20 years retired was going on wanted to find out hobby business that I could like bring my kids into that wanted to and found glass art design just by accident
Mark D. Williams 1:28
out of curiosity so if you go down on 13 Quite a bit down in Shakopee is that the lagoon that giant beautiful steel thing is that the original vessel is
Mike Lejune 1:37
June bolt. So that's that was a spin off from the June steel. My uncle and my dad were partners in the business for a while and then my dad bought my uncle out and they had this little bolt doesn't say he took off they took it it really turned out
Mark D. Williams 1:48
well for interesting now so but that's no longer in the family or my cousin. Okay. Beautiful Tommy, he's got a great side, the building looks like a you know, a 1920s bomb shelter from the road. But sign is like super nice. So anyway, I'll let him know. Yeah. Tell him I can build them a nice, really, really nice shed.
Mike Lejune 2:07
So we bought about the glass business. And you know, it's hot glass art is like high end decorative glass. And I kind of started to conclude after a while I was like everything I was doing to grow the business was just not, you know, having the desired impact is just kind of muddling along growing slowly. And then Andrew was looking for a job and I won't steal his story. But I realized as I was helping him try and find something that boy, I could use a guy like Andrew so hired him and, and he's really taking the company in a in a great new direction. We bought a company called Glass and mirror outlet, which we renamed glass mirror, Minnesota. And that's the growth vehicle. So classic design continues to muddle along, we'll never let it go. Because we're the nobody else in the state. And hardly anybody in the country does what we do. It's really a spectacular special company. It's just not a fast growing company. But glass and mirror Minnesota is turning into a really fast growing company. And it's all because of you know, and the aggressiveness that Andrew has brought to the company that I think aggressiveness I might have had at one time but maybe don't have it so much anymore.
Mark D. Williams 3:14
explained to me. Before we get into Andrew straight. What is the difference between the two?
Mike Lejune 3:19
glass mirror Minnesota is more of a commodity glass company just like like the vast majority that glass companies in town.
Mark D. Williams 3:27
But so you had specialty? Yeah, locked up and you're one of a few fabricators in the country that can do some of the things that you can do. And we'll talk about that maybe later in the podcast. And then you want after maybe some more production stuff to boost revenue, I would imagine. Right. So
Mike Lejune 3:40
that's what Andrew is brought to it. I mean, he's he's chasing after the national builders, multifamily things that I always thought, oh, yeah, we can't do that. That's, you know, that's not because I came from that glass art background. But he went after it and it's been working.
Mark D. Williams 3:56
We'll come back to that. We'll we'll get Andrew introduced first one of the questions I want to come back to because that Dave's thing is really interesting to a lot of people that listen in any entrepreneur, you essentially have the high end, specialty, and then you have kind of the production, if you will, for lack I'm thinking of like in terms of homes, right? Yeah. Linaro polti. And then you have Mark Williams Custom Homes, you've got like this high end custom fat and then like, but you as you're growing it together, you can really offer the best of both. Is that fair to say?
Andrew Lejune 4:21
Yeah. And I mean, that was a challenge, how we're gonna approach it. Yeah.
Mark D. Williams 4:25
I want to talk about profitability in a second at versus scale ability. Why don't we introduce you to the audience a little bit? Yeah.
Andrew Lejune 4:31
So I I went to St. Thomas locally after I went to Colorado for undergrad, did a JD MBA and gotten a leadership program at APA group doing fire protection. Ironically, yeah. Which epi group was abolished and still is kind of unrelated but the fire protection aspect of it is important because that's like the commodity unsexy business that I think is really cool is that it was recurring revenue consistent revenue scalable, whereas the custom decorative is less scalable. So I think that mindset push me a little bit to bring that to Glasser design. You know, I was in New Orleans, moved down there with my wife, right after we got married, new, you know, graduated new job, running a branch starting a new branch in New Orleans really exciting. One of the things that it brought is that ability to grow something from the ground up and away something that was there and not doing well and do, you know, add these new revenue streams add you know, we had fire sprinkler, now we add fire alarm extinguishers, specialty industrial, chemical refinery, all this stuff, chasing big customers big accounts. But we had two kids, when we were down there, we had a dog, we, you know, we were COVID happen. And, you know, it's like, man, you know, it's, it's better to raise our kids with family around. And so I was kind of passively looking and just seeing what was out there. And I kind of mentioned it to, obviously my dad, just saying, Hey, if you know anybody or you know, if you have some ideas and just kind of lined up where COVID hit and their salesperson or you know, their sales manager had to leave and kind of line up perfectly. Open
Mark D. Williams 6:27
up the door. What was it about there? Was there always been something in you that was kind of entrepreneurial, seeing your dad growing up that way that made you weren't born with this question is when you went to API, it sounds like you turned it around from what we had talked a little bit. Yeah,
Andrew Lejune 6:40
not API around. He was doing great. So yeah, my brand credit. Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 6:45
sorry, that branch. Yeah. What was it? I mean, was that attractive to you? Did you look at other places was a kind of daunting thing. Why did you choose that? The reason I'm where I'm going with this is I've heard sometimes, like consultants, like I always wonder like, why do they love to keep on coming in to clean up a mess? And the answer that I've often heard is like, they really enjoyed bringing some order to chaos at it. And there's a lot of fulfillment in in seeing if they can help, you know, bring life back to what was some of that? No, that's
Andrew Lejune 7:10
right. Yeah, no, there's a lot of that. I think, I think you'd mentioned maybe last time that I don't know if it was on the wherever it was you I think, maybe a podcast that you could never have like a normal job again, right at the podcast. And I think there's something something in my spirit that I just couldn't be in the cubicle, climb up the corporate ladder. And that same way, API group was unique, that they had all these different businesses, and they kind of let you be a little bit more independent and decentralized. So this branch, I mean, it's your company, basically, you're running this company, you're responsible financials, hiring, firing, you know, the EBIT, da, I mean, you've got this administrative aspect at the corporate level, and they're driving you to hit your results. But it's kind of your baby and you grow it as you do you find your own customers, you grow into your own markets, you add new revenue streams. But yeah, I mean, I had the option of going to different places. So this this leadership program that I joined, it's, you get to travel around the country for a year, go to different companies for four to six weeks, you know, Shadow, the CEO, you know, basically
Mark D. Williams 8:17
the name of this networking group that sounds really fast. No, it was part of the company I was part of, it's a really,
Andrew Lejune 8:22
I mean, API is great. I mean, they have these leadership programs. And they're, they kind of were in a pioneer, but they're kind of a an early adopter of that model. And I think it's a great model. But you kind of shadow these leaders in the company, all around the country. And then at the end, they'll basically bid on you to come in, either take their branch over or take their, you know, yeah, that's
Mark D. Williams 8:46
a fascinating model. I
Andrew Lejune 8:48
love that and there and the bid is like, Okay, I want to pay this guy. It's basically payment, and this is what will pay you. And you're going to be in a sales role or operations role.
Mark D. Williams 8:56
How long have you been working for the company before this kind of this shadowing sequence happened?
Unknown Speaker 9:02
Right out of the chute? Oh, right.
Mark D. Williams 9:03
Yeah, that's part of the path to hire.
Andrew Lejune 9:05
Yeah, that's, that's what I that's what I wanted to be in. And so they hired me on to do that. And so naturally, you're kind of in this being groomed for this leadership role in some way or another. And I had the option to go to this really developed branch, where this guy was 75, let's say I don't know how old it was, but he was on his way out. But he's probably going to be there for like, another five years. So he was 70. I think he was gonna go till 75 He'd been there forever. Like, okay, five years there. Then there was another branch that was even more, you know, developed kind of the the cream of the crop. They had the highest EBITDA of every other branch. Explain what EBIT is. I'm not familiar with that operating profit. Yeah. So earnings before interest tax. Okay.
Mark D. Williams 9:48
amortization. Yeah, that's corporate speak. I'm not familiar with that. Yeah. But
Andrew Lejune 9:52
profit, got the highest profit margins, you know, and that would have been great because you get a piece of it. You know, you get your bonus is tied to that. But it was another five years before it would be my own. And I just wanted something to build on my own. So I don't know something about the chaos to order I think I like. And then even like, you know, glass already says muddle long enough, it's muddled along, I think we've, we've got really good relationships, and we've been developing these relationships with custom builders, designers, and it's growing. But what he means by muddled, I think, is that it's just not growing as fast as I want, or as he wants. So I think the the commodity, the scale is there. And, you know, I think growing something is pretty important to both of us. And, you know, I like that challenge of, Okay, those are my sales targets, I'm gonna get those, you know, I'm gonna get those sales. What
Mark D. Williams 10:46
What was it? And, Mike, Have you always had a growth mindset? And where I'm going with this, as you know, I recently for myself, I've often thought about, like, you know, do you grow? And I think that's one of my questions here. So we were do quality, I can't do quantity, you found a way to essentially do a hybrid, which you can essentially do both. I'm just interested like, from when you started, because you've been you've owned glass art for 30 years. No, no, six years, six years, six and a half. Okay. But you you were working within the glass art for quite a while before you bought it out or not?
Mike Lejune 11:17
No, no, no, no thing about glass when I bought it. Oh, that's even cooler. Okay, well, I bought it thinking I was buying a happy business. Oh, wow. Okay. And then I discovered there's no hobby business. No, that's true.
Mark D. Williams 11:29
I agree with that. Well, let's stay on the question. Tell me a little bit about so then did you grow then you bought it knowing that you want to scale it was that's the goal, okay. And,
Mike Lejune 11:36
and thought that it was a little bit more scalable than it is and it would be if it was in Las Vegas, because what we sell glass art is bling. Yeah. And this is not a bling market. You know, there's a little bit but you're not going to you know, so you can grow but you're not going to grow fast. are still our biggest products here for Glasser, designer showers and beers, but it's but it's a lot of specialty showers and mirrors to and just real high end customers that want that, that kind of experience. And
Mark D. Williams 12:03
if you don't want to share the stats, or if you don't know that we can bypass the question, maybe just give it higher level. But you know, like I assume if you're doing more customization, you can charge a higher percentage of profit for quality. Was that true? Correct. And if you're doing quantity like going, you know, the glass and mirror you're going after national accounts, you're competing, I assume more on volume than on percentage. Is that true or not? Yeah,
Andrew Lejune 12:25
yeah. Basically. I mean, that's the gist of it. I mean, I think there's obviously, differences within each vendor within each, you know, there's all these different things, you know, we have different vendors for showers are prevented from mirrors, and we can be a little bit more competitive and try to get those same margins. And I think it'll play out to be similar margins and a lot of regards. But yeah, I mean, that's kind of the play there. And, for example, I mean, I think you're getting, let's say it's, let's say Luminar. And they do, you know, 1600 shot houses a year, they say they got units. Yeah, yeah. And if you're saying, okay, you've got $1,000 per okay, that and you get all of them, which you don't you know, they never give it all. But if that's, you know, what is that 1.6 million 1.6 million in mirrors in showers and mirror at $1,000. apiece. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, for the for each for each house. It's 16 million. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, 1000 times. Yeah, it's 16 million. Yeah. So yeah, 16 million, you know, we're not getting that whole thing. But you know, that, like, you know, simple math, okay. There's, you get a low margin on that. But the a million dollar margin versus, you know, how many custom homes have, you know, right, $30,000, which would be a big, you know, shower and mirror job $30,000. And showers and mirrors? Is it going to take to get there, you know, we've
Mark D. Williams 13:47
had cabinet guys on before rich hip was on one of our cabinet guys. And he's a smaller shop, but you know, they have a CNC machine. And basically, the idea is like, the more you can keep that CNC machine running and being down, the more profitable you are, is there some advantages? I assume you have a lot of computer software that's helping you run some of your manufacturing. And we can talk a little bit about where you're getting your glass from, or how it comes to if you're just cutting it, things like that. But with the volume that you're talking about? I imagine that's going to make you extremely efficient, because you could probably batch produce stuff. Is that accurate?
Andrew Lejune 14:19
Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, there's alternatives. I mean, you can start, you can start buying, you know, mass quantities of stock, mirrors, shower doors, different things, types of kits, something that we're kind of going into, but we've allocated, I mean, we we just redesigned our whole basement to accommodate the amount of metal cutting the amount of glass storage that we're going to be cranking through there. And it's different than our model, because before you'd get this, you know, custom showered or in and you'd have a custom size, you'd have it checked in. We were I don't know we're one of the only glass companies I'm sure others do it that check in every glass we Buffett we edge it down we make sure it's to that You know, sixteenths of an inch perfect with no scratches, blemishes, anything like that. And I know a lot of glass companies that do that. But you can't do that in the Linaro model. I mean, you can't be checking in 1600 shower doors, and you know, cranking it through I mean, we still care about quality. So there's a scratch sheet here, scratch there, but you know, your $20 million Lake minute Tonka house that you know that builder that pm that soup cares a lot more about that eighth inch gap and that scratch then, you know, your semi frameless stick stick metal kit,
Mike Lejune 15:31
which doable in ours, you buy extras, and you put extras on the truck, and you get out there and installer. See, this one doesn't look very good. We'll just bring it back.
Unknown Speaker 15:39
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Mark D. Williams 15:41
I mean, that makes sense. from a quality standpoint, I mean, are you able to leverage do you feel like it seems like it'd be a good balance, you have the scalability and that kind of horsepower, if you will, to, to, you know, knock out 1600 units for lonar. But you also have the capacity for the detail work? How have those two segments kind of complemented each other? Are you are you able to go a little bit faster, a little bit more efficient now in the quality work and maybe be a little bit more quality in the quantity work? Or does that not necessarily, I
Mike Lejune 16:08
think to be clear, we're just starting with what are so we're not, we're nowhere near 1600 units spread out amongst others, they're just one. Good Sure. Good example. But I would say when we bought glass, Mirror, mirror, glass, glass mirror, all that now glass mirror Minnesota, they were more competing on that, you know, in that commodity world, and and bless companies in that world don't always deliver the kind of quality that Glasser does, they don't
Andrew Lejune 16:35
check in, they didn't write Chicken, Chicken showers and mirrors, which is what most glass companies are doing. They're just not checking it, just get them in, put them on the truck and install them and hope they don't notice. Wow, we
Mike Lejune 16:46
kind of quickly determined that, you know, we've got a really skilled staff that takes a lot of pride in what they do. And there's no way we could tell them to do a lesser job, because we got a little bit less money for it. So we still checked everything in but you kind of get to your point, I think, so we're delivering better quality, but we can still be competitive on that end. But then on this other end, when we bring in some of these more volume type people, they see our showroom, they're just, you know, blown away. I mean, they're coming in seeing I wonder if these guys are up to the task, and they're not expecting what they see when they walk in the door. It's a very impressive showroom, and, and a shop and we got a lot of equipment and a lot of really skilled people. Are you.
Mark D. Williams 17:26
So two questions here? I guess we'll stay focused on the one that we're at with the facility or facilities and like North Loop area, right. Yeah. And so when you bought the other business, you know, classroom here in Minnesota, did you take over their facility? And like, still keep it and just run it as is? Or did you move the volunteer one warehouse? We both
Mike Lejune 17:47
both gone for a while and thought that's probably what we would continue to do? Yeah. And it just was really awkward. I mean, we have a culture, they had a different culture. And we wanted to bring everybody into our culture, and there's just no way to do that with two separate locations.
Mark D. Williams 18:02
Did you where it was their location previously, Hopkins? And was there How did you have that capacity? Clearly, to bring it all into shop? I mean, it was not an issue or isn't an issue now
Andrew Lejune 18:12
is an issue. I mean, it was an issue in a way but not an issue. I mean, we have all the equipment and people that you know, we brought in and they fit perfectly in our space. But to get to that point, there was a lot of I mean, moving beveler a glass bubbler. I mean, it, it costs a lot of money has to be perfect. And bevels are a very unique thing. I mean, it has to be perfectly straight. And if you snap people gonna notice so you know, tinkering with that machine after was installed, you know, all those little things that you don't think about. So it, it was a it was a process. Yeah, every little thing was a process. It's amazing
Unknown Speaker 18:45
how much space we found in our building.
Mark D. Williams 18:48
reorienting, did you bring did you bring architects or designers? How did you do? How did you lay everything out?
Mike Lejune 18:53
Are you familiar with the lean manufacturing? Yes. There's, there's a concept within lean called a Kaizen. Yeah, yeah, we have a lot of cases. Yes. And they're, they're not, they're not real formal, like I was used to, like when I was with a big company, we had real formal Kaizen with, you know, paperwork, and everything. These are much more informal, but we do bring in a cross functional team and we look at an issue or a problem or an opportunity, we figure out how to how to attack it. And, you know, sometimes I'm a big believer, and it's more important to move than to be perfect. And sometimes we would do something and then we'd have to come back and fix it. But at least we were making progress. And as a result, you know, bringing glass and mirror Minnesota into our shop really allowed us to find a lot of extra space and realize that there's a lot of different ways we could do things. And now that we've got all this other work coming in and it's just hitting now. So this is a really exciting and scary time in a way because we're trying you know, we're we've got more glass about to flow through our shop than and then ever has. But like Andrew talked about that what we did in the basement I mean, it's just a It was great, the way it all came together and how fast it came together. And I think it's gonna work great. I bet we'll tweak it 10 more times. But what we did is good. And there's been, I find that one of the most enjoyable things is problem solving that kind of problem solving. It's almost more like a jigsaw, that you know that, you know, something doesn't fit on a project. That's not as exciting. But this has been really fun. How
Mark D. Williams 20:22
did you? Did you keep the old building for storage? Or what do you do with the old building? And Hopkins? Or did you sell it?
Mike Lejune 20:27
It was a leased building? Or was it leased buildings was up a year after we bought it? And so we just let it lapse. Okay.
Mark D. Williams 20:31
All right. So it kind of worked out well from and cut your overhead and brought it in? Yeah, obviously, that increased profitability.
Andrew Lejune 20:37
Yeah. And that was that was that was our intent originally, and it just kind of slow rolled bringing them over? Just because I think there was some desire to kind of keep that presence. And we wanted to evaluate it. But there was an advantage to being there. I mean, there were local people that, you know, we're used to go in there and different things like that. But at the end of the day, that culture was so important that we didn't want these two separate cultures and conflicting interests, like we need to be all be in the same spot.
Mark D. Williams 21:01
One of the things that would be curious to question you about Mike, as it relates to even your guys's buying of this business now, you were looking for a business to buy six years ago, I would assume and not not really, really
Mike Lejune 21:13
thought I was going to take a couple years off, I had retired and I really expected to take a couple of years off. And this buddy of mine calm said, Yeah, I found this building I want to buy, he's in real estate, and it's got this business and they go together. And maybe you could buy the business and I can buy the building. And I don't know, I'm gonna take a look at you know, and I just told myself, don't jump at the first thing. But when you when you do walk in our showroom, you'll see why I walked in and I go, Oh, this is really cool.
Mark D. Williams 21:39
Wow, that's funny, because well, that could that that that suits my assumptions. So I was thinking that you had what I was going with the question to, you know, I started, you know, my company, and I'm always interested, I think had someone told me, you can go buy a company. Now, after 20 years of building a company takes a lot of work. And there's a lot of things I'm just now doing in year 19 and 20. That is like, Man, why didn't I do this, where I think there's some there's huge value in buying a business, I think sometimes we think we have to start a business. I know that builders in general, along with, you know, certain other industries, there's a low barrier of entry, like anyone could essentially go be a builder, it also makes it a little bit more difficult to sell your business like you guys could walk away and still sell glass art design, because it's a viable company. And we talked about that on the podcast to that or instead of working on your business and working in your business. And if you work in your business, you are an employee, if you work on your business, you're an owner. And I feel like I've only recently understood that, you know, I'm an employee of my own company. Sure, until I can create some systems that are more scalable, you know, there's not the asset really isn't here and maybe underselling it. That's not really the point. The point is, is like, when you were looking at class art, I was thinking like, oh, man, what kind of how did you look at it? How did you analyze it compared to other companies, but it was just the right opportunity at the right time?
Mike Lejune 22:52
Right? And I would say, How did I analyze it effectively?
Mark D. Williams 22:56
Thanks for making me feel better. Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't,
Mike Lejune 22:59
it wasn't. I don't think I bought the company I thought about wasn't exactly what I bought. But, you know, between Andrea and I, we've turned it into the company we wanted. So
Mark D. Williams 23:08
then let's fast forward here, when you bought, you know, glass and doors of Minnesota, are mirrors and doors of Minnesota. How did you look at that? Why did you identify that? Because it's kind of neat that you bought a company, you know, six years ago, and then only five years into building, you bought another company, right? That's pretty cool. And I understand where the strategy is, but walk me through like your mind process of like, Why Why buy it versus just was taking out the competition? Or also you having access to their network? Or what was the advantages of buying it versus starting one,
Mike Lejune 23:39
you know, that? I wish it was that intelligent, like we had approached it that way, like you described, but it wasn't, unfortunately, what it basically what it was is like, I've you know, I'm a business owner, and I want to grow. I mean, if you don't grow it, you can't grow the profitability either. And that's obviously what we're in business for, at least, at least partially. And, and so I was looking for a business to buy. And we looked at another business completely unrelated, not glass at all, I don't want to go into it yet, because you're asking me questions.
Mark D. Williams 24:11
Later. This is actually gonna be a mini series, series episodes.
Mike Lejune 24:15
But we got beat up by another bitter. And then a buddy of mine, had this business and in some other businesses and had been really frustrated with the glass business, for all the reasons that any glass business owner would be frustrated, but it was it's not like other businesses, it's not quite as easy. You know, you're not making just widgets. But in any event, he wanted to sell and, and we wanted to buy something that we could grow and that's how it came together.
Mark D. Williams 24:43
So another one of those things, it's, I mean, one of the questions I have on here is networking, because you know, I see both of you at you know, all the Minnesota Housing First stuff you guys have come to some of my live events and just I feel like Andrew in particular, but I didn't know much about your history is networking, just really asking you open a question how beneficial to your business. and even future growth. Have you found networking? And just maybe comment a little bit about that?
Mike Lejune 25:05
I'll let Andrew answer him mostly, but I will say that Andrew is really a networker, and it's been really beneficial for the business much more so than I have been. I enjoy it. I just, you know, I, I just don't seem to have the time to do it. And Andrew makes the time to do it. And it's been really valuable. Yeah.
Andrew Lejune 25:24
Should I list out all the other organizations? Yeah, go for it. All right. So Nari, Business Development Committee, project build, which we talked about last time we did. Outreach Committee, Associated Builders and Contractors Business Development Committee. Housing First Advocacy Committee, Ambassador committee, Clay issued Task Force greenPath. Committee. I mean, clay shoot Task Force. Young Professionals. Yeah, no. Clay Chatez was I put on a t shirt? Yeah, I mean, I didn't do stuff. I'm just saying, you know, there's networking opportunities there too. And then I was like, Alright, I've maxed out and met because I also am involved in the church and all this other stuff to St. Thomas, and St. in university. I'm adding these up, right, like roughly 10 right now. Yeah. So University, St. Thomas, which we talked about last week, like a small peer group, which is great, which, yeah. But since I got it, I maxed out. And people know that you're involved in a lot of committees, and they're like, Hey, do you want to be the chair of the programs committee for ASCD? Okay, yeah, yeah. Just says, no, no, this
Mark D. Williams 26:30
guy has a problem saying yes. Yeah. I mean, no. Yeah, exactly.
Andrew Lejune 26:33
And no, I think there's some benefit to it, too. I think, you know, obviously, there's, as you know, getting your name out there. You know, building that network. There's all that part of it, too. But, you know, the reason I've been involved in the church involved in St. involved. Yeah. And the law school. I forgot about that, too. Yeah. So, yeah, there's is because I think it maybe it was COVID. You know, I'm down in New Orleans, I don't know anybody. I can't really get traction, the community. I was like, Alright, I'm gonna, if I want to get involved in the community, and I'm gonna get involved in because I want to see a certain thing. But I also want to know, people, I want to grow my network, I want to, you know, be involved. And I just started saying yes to everything and doing it, and I love it. I'm a, you know, a salesperson at heart. I'm a social person. And I think it's paid off. I mean, we've had, we've had a lot of customers come over, we've met a lot of people. And I think a big part of our growth, especially especially in multifamily is because it networking.
Mark D. Williams 27:34
It's interesting, because I think early on in your career, or at least for me, anyway, when I heard the word networking, I always thought that was someone something that people did in their 40s and 50s. Well, turns out, I'm mid 40s. Now, so I guess it's time, but part of it was is, you know, if you're a social person, you kind of just have this network, but I think it's like networking, to me now is something like with more intentional purpose. And there's a you kind of alluded to it a little bit. I think, for me personally, one of the things I like most about the networking is I just generally enjoy other people as businesses. And I mean, it could be, it can be other things like church or, you know, any other. You know, actually my daughter today is with my grandma doing a children's giveaway stuff, you know, trying to teach the kids you know, about, you know, some of the things that they don't know about, right, and so there's all these outreach programs far more than I have time for. And I, one of the questions I have for both of you that would maybe transition is, how have you found balancing your time? It's a popular question that I asked us, I'm constantly trying to refigure my balance and in life, you know, as I have three young kids and trying to, you know, navigate that maybe I'll turn this question to Mike first is, you know, what are some time balancing things that you've been able to manage in your career that you feel have been successful? And what are some things that, you know, if you did do it again, you would do it differently? And I'd ask the same question to you, Andrew, after that, you
Mike Lejune 28:44
know, it's a good question. I always felt like I made it. I did travel a lot when I was with Fabcon. So, but outside of that, I try to always be home on weekends. And try not to work too late during the weekday, and just try to create an environment around myself that allowed me to do to work in that way. And so, you know, always recognize that my family was the most important thing, and I needed to put time into that. So, you know, I haven't I've not really struggled with it. I'm more of an introvert than Andrew is more of an extrovert. So I like I like networking opportunities for about a half hour. Okay. Yeah. It's gone crazy and want to go? Sure. Sure. Hi, Andrew. Andrew, obviously, enjoys, enjoys it a little bit more. Well,
Mark D. Williams 29:35
you would too if you had a power co2 powered golf ball shooter like you had at Alaska. That was pretty fun. Yeah, well add that to your 75 Golf test golf Taskforce.
Mike Lejune 29:49
Anyway, I've always kept a balance and now since Andrews taken over the business has been even it's been great. I mean, he doesn't need me for the day to day i When he needed me for initially with sales and now now with all the networking says need me for that either, so I have a lot of time. Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 30:06
we're gonna talk about AI in a minute. Whatever you manage him you have young kids like I do, manage, you know, you have, you know it fair to say probably overcommitted in a lot of areas. With all these networking responsibilities, I find myself in the same boat. What I mean, how have you kind of navigated this both as a family man, and also as a business owner, it's
Andrew Lejune 30:26
funny, it's a definitely a challenge. I live a lot by my calendar a lot more than I did before. I mean, I try to, you know, schedule every part of my day now. And that's important. I do care, you know, about being there for dinner with my family. And my wife would probably say, when you're, you know, you'd be there more often. And I don't think I'm, you know, at least four days a week. There. I mean, I think the summer was a little bit more network a lot more golf tournaments, different things like that. But as it you know, the general day to day, you probably don't like to networking events at night, month, and then everything else is kind of during the day. And then, you know, there's committees that are zoom, and different things like that. But you know, three young kids, school sports, all that stuff, is a little bit of our commitment. But if it dies down, then I'm like, oh, I need to do something else. So I think that's part of that same I got to I want to grow this business. And if we stopped if we started being steady, I'd be like, what's the new? What's interesting to grow into? Yeah, and I, once I get to one thing, I'm like, Alright, now I'm good with that. Let's do the next one. It's fun. The challenge I
Mark D. Williams 31:33
had, I had coffee with a good friend of mine, who's real estate agent and his family's out of town for me a weekend. He says he always takes every MBA weekend to be away from his family, actually, they go to his in laws place and he spends four days and he's that need that downtime, kind of some alone time. And, you know, I try to just read some books and be alone. And I just reflected like, if I had four days alone, like I would make so many appointments with see my friends and family and cousins and uncles, and you know, I would go to every sporting event, I would just I would absolutely. If I had all this free space, it would I would just fill it all up as much as I possibly could. I think is that kinda what you're so yeah,
Andrew Lejune 32:05
totally. Yeah. Like, man, that's like my Karianne. That's my wife. So she is an introvert kind of like he is and she had loved like, a week and it just kind of like, chill out. And, you know, I'm like, Alright, I'm home this weekend, because, you know, we're going hunting, and we're going to the cabin or something like I'm home this weekend, what do we got going on? Like, Oh, nothing, and we just get nothing. So we can we can do whatever, alright, we're going to Renaissance Festival, then the State Fair, then we're going to do this, you know, and I've got to fill it with all these things. And I just, I don't know what it is. I just go crazy sitting at home and we get
Mark D. Williams 32:35
restless. Yeah. And I for me, I found that I can maybe change the parameters because I have an introverted wife that, you know, likes alone time, or family time. And I'm fine with that, too. But it's like, you know, it's, it's a little things, you know, it's like, you know, now my kids are into games. I love games. So it's like, you know, I played two games with pay to play two games with Simon. I'm just like, you know, trying to figure out ways to do it. And you know, you got to get out to and do some, you know, exercise for me is I gotta get out and get that. So anyway. Yeah. Interesting. How for going to that kind of relationship. You have a father and son team, when you came on into the company was Did you have any reservations about being assigned working with your dad? How would that partnership look like? And I'll ask that question to you first as a son, but then I'll flip it to you, Mike, as the dad, like, you know, there's always Yeah, I'm just kind of curious to hear how you've navigated that.
Andrew Lejune 33:23
I guess, I didn't know what it'd be like, I mean, I kind of obviously, we've, I've known him my whole life. So I knew generally what it'd be like, but we've never worked together. So. No, I mean, I said, Yes. Right away, no reservations. But yeah, I think we've, we've both kind of, you know, pushed and pulled to get to where we are, that's a good space. And I think, you know, I obviously have the way that I want to, you know, I'm trying to push in this direction, and, you know, trying to get on the same page there. And generally, I would say we are on the same page. And I mean, we think about this, we think about things very similarly, we have the same intent about how to grow the business, you know, how to keep the culture as it is, you know, what's important, you know, and you know, what kind of people we want an organization. So there's a lot of that and I think one of those things, which I kind of alluded to, as well as having a pitch another organization, which is St. Thomas Family Business Center, which I've been interested in tons of people to I think
Mark D. Williams 34:22
if you're not an alumni you can be a part
Andrew Lejune 34:24
of it. Yeah. No, it's all family business center and I mean, it's the alumni not important so like select surfaces as you know, those they're you know, four siblings you know, they met Tanya through sad and Uncle You should check this out. And so I think they're a new member and a couple others I think blackjack homes, family business. But ya know, I think it's great and it's like to have that peer group of different people in the same situation. You know, one person's and appliances, one person's in injection molding, different things like that. But we all the same type of problems. You know, the same types of Okay, how do I tackle this issue? How to do this? And, you know, how do the employees Look at me? Is it you know, oh, he just got the job because he's the son or, you know, whatever. And, you know, all those types of challenges and how to grow the business and the
Mark D. Williams 35:12
family aspect. Yeah, that's really Oh, that's fascinating. What was the name of it? Again,
Andrew Lejune 35:16
it's a family business center at St. Thomas, University of St. Thomas. Yeah, it's great. I mean, there's actually a lot of people that are actually involved in Housing First, not a lot. But there's a few that are also involved. And I've often
Mark D. Williams 35:28
joked that, you know, my kids are, I'm 43. And my daughter is seven, who should be an amazing owner, but I really hope to retire before she's, like, ready to go. It's like, Man, I hope they have no interest in building because I don't want to be around still building 20 years. Yeah. But we'll see. You know, how about for you, Mike, when you thought about bringing your son on? As a dad? You know, you know, he's a business partner, he's also your son, it was that kind of in your psyche? At all?
Mike Lejune 35:53
Yeah, it was, you know, a little bit concerned about, but I've always been really close with all my kids. And, and, you know, I think we can talk pretty straight. So I wasn't too worried. I kind of think in the back of my mind, you know, as I think about it, now, I was probably bringing them in, I was like, Okay, well, he'll do all the stuff I don't like and I'll just go do the stuff I like, and well, he came in, he wanted to change everything. So I didn't like anything. Like I'm smiling. And, but there are good changes. But But gut wrenching. I mean, just, you know, when you change systems, that is a gut wrenching change. And it was it was stressful, and that was probably the most stressful thing on our business relationship was when he was changing all our systems. And you know, we didn't have any visibility. And I didn't like the results. And because
Mark D. Williams 36:43
it takes would you how long would you say it takes a year when when you see systems? What systems? Are we talking about
Andrew Lejune 36:47
new operating system software system? And then all that just every process for every every sales shop install
Mark D. Williams 36:57
was named to it? Or is that something you use when you were down Orleans? Or is it it's
Andrew Lejune 37:00
called the and religion says, No, I'm kidding. No, I don't know. I mean, we've got a really good group of people. And, you know, we basically identified that when we brought over glassware outlet that they were QuickBooks is one of the systems. But they were using advanced inventory items, you know, estimating sales order purchase, which we had our own system to. And we had QuickBooks, but we had this other system called FileMaker. And we were basically entering everything in FileMaker, and then re entering it to invoice in QuickBooks, just to get that in those financial Yeah, but it wasn't accurate. There's a lot of problems with when we're accruing the cost when we're accruing the revenue, keeping the month straight, direct costs, indirect costs, you know, all these different things that you kind of need. And so like, our revenue line was like, revenue, cost of goods sold. And, you know, that's just material cost. And then there's 40, less than the expenses for all these different things. And it's like, alright, we, you know, we need to change this a little bit to get some.
Mark D. Williams 38:01
So he tried to simple you what, in your mind, you're trying to simplify the systems?
Andrew Lejune 38:05
In a way? Yeah. So I mean, we changed, we changed over ours to I mean, one is we weren't trying to duplicate, but also streamline a lot of the system. So I mean, everything from how, you know, the initial inquiry goes for estimate, how that gets communicated, customer gets set up, how the sales order gets set up from there, how each item gets set up the cost associated with it, all the 3000 items, all the different types of customers, all the different kinds of installation methods, and then what do you do about custom things? What do you do about this? And then, you know, who's purchasing it? How has it been purchased? How does that system need to be? And then how can it all streamline so then it ties in with financials and you know, all these different things, and it was 1000 1000s of moving parts, literally, literally 1000s and 1000s.
Mark D. Williams 38:54
I can bet I'm in Mike's camp here, I would have just been having my blood pressure would have been go through the roof here.
Andrew Lejune 38:57
And he asked my wife, I just I didn't show it at work. But yeah, I was like, Holy crap. It's a lot. Yeah, well, we
Mike Lejune 39:03
what I found when I bought a small business, I said, there's no such thing as a hobby business, because there's nobody to do anything. I mean, you do everything. And, and so Andrew said, we're gonna we're gonna, you know, convert to this system, thinking that, you know, different people would be able to do different parts, but nobody had time. Everybody had their day job. So it all fell on him. So I think you probably put in hundreds of hours entering data and and trying to get everything up to speed and then we brought, you know, outside consultants, which were really expensive to
Mark D. Williams 39:33
help us find that was helpful or not, oh, hugely, yeah. And
Mike Lejune 39:37
then over the course of all that, we got a new bookkeeper, whose was that ended up being super helpful as well. So by the you know, it was frustrating. I don't think it I never felt any any differently about Andrew. I don't I don't know how he felt about me. But there was one day I sent an email asking about something and I think he took it. He took it as criticism of him and I was actually just asking a question, and I was frustrated that didn't have the answer. And I got this text message we need to tell. And he's in a send me is actually was an email in the end, the subject was we need to talk and then it was, you know, several paragraphs of all his frustrations. And I just felt terrible. And when when we did call talk, I first right away said, I'm really sorry. I mean, I think you're doing a great job. I appreciate everything you're doing. I'm just, you know, ask a lot of questions and am frustrated. But it's not because they don't trust you or have faith in you. I'm just, you know, it's just a tough time. It's just frustrating.
Mark D. Williams 40:40
You got to kind of get through it, right? There's no way
Andrew Lejune 40:41
Yeah, yeah, we can't get to the place we want to scale if we're not if our systems are not good. I
Mike Lejune 40:48
said the thing I never wanted to be was a seagull manager, somebody who flies in shits on everybody and then leaves. So I'm gonna try really hard not to do that. So we've made a point to, you know, go out to lunch, at least once a week, and just talk about things. How's it going? You know, and if he has any frustrations, hopefully he would share it with me. And, and that's been really helpful. You know, you think that you're just you're passing each other in the hall and talking that you get everything out, but you don't you really need that time, just set aside to really talk about the business and what's going on. And, and then, of course, the systems came together. So a lot of the frustration went away. And
Mark D. Williams 41:24
when how long into your employment before you kind of pitched this to your dad saying like, hey, we need a systems change immediately.
Andrew Lejune 41:30
Immediately. Immediately. I said, Where's your job costing? You know, where's
Mark D. Williams 41:35
that was your onboarding process was to change the plane? Yeah. Yeah. So awesome. Yeah.
Andrew Lejune 41:40
So I just I don't know, I just thought there was an I didn't want to I just I
Mark D. Williams 41:45
just felt that was that was, that's how you brought on probably too. I mean, did you? Did you have an inkling that that was going to happen? No, no. Yeah.
Andrew Lejune 41:53
But it's like, okay, I, you know, and part of this. We did six months into it, we're acquiring a new company. And I think that was kind of one of the motivators. And I'm like, one of the reasons I wanted to is because like I said, I was in the fire protection business, I want this unsexy, scalable business or commodity. That's, you know, and you know, the idea there is that, okay, that pays for the overhead, and then the rest is gravy, right? That's kind of the idea. But our system was not scalable at all. In fact, the more work we got, the more complicated our paperwork got, the more you know, and it's just, it's like, the less information was on the paperwork, the less you know, and so it's like, it's not scalable, okay, if we want to grow, if we want to have, if we want to have this many more jobs, this much more revenue, we have a broken system, that the more jobs and more revenue we have on the worse off we are, we need to do. And so I think, you know, that was always in my mind. And I, you know, I was like, I have this vision of growing to the size, and we can't get there. Unless we have a good system.
Mark D. Williams 42:55
What's the reason for the drive? I mean, you both have this, I mean, obviously, you more so right now that I can tell me your fist pumping right now. Come on. Yeah. What the driver, what is the drive for is the biggest, more profitable, more like, just energy, like, we can do more? Like, what, what are some drive factors?
Andrew Lejune 43:13
I don't know. I mean, I think it's its success. It's, it's, you know, building the company that I want it to be that I see it, I have this vision of what it should be. I think that's part of the drive. I'm also competitive. You know, I think anyone who plays a game with me, or whether it's beanbags or cards, I'm, you know, trying to win every time and, you know, it's part of my nature. So I think, okay, if if I want to, if we don't have this, you know, this customer, why why not? Wait, who else has an ally? Like, how do we get that customer right now? That kind of thing? Sure. Sure. Okay. I think there's a little bit of both. But yeah, I think, you know, one of the drivers is, there's a vision I see for this company, and I want it to get there and I want and don't have time to wait.
Mark D. Williams 43:56
Yeah, yeah. Business
Mike Lejune 43:58
is the ultimate sport. And it's not just about profits or revenue, but, you know, what are the how do you how do you grade a business? Well, profits is one, revenue is another. Culture is another, safety's another. So you want to be the best, like anything, anything I do, and I'm sure like, You're the same, I want to be the best. I want to win.
Mark D. Williams 44:19
And I think also your employees, right, so like, how big is your team? 2525 I mean, there's some fish as an owner, too, you know, we I mean, we all think about our team and you know, in the sense that like nobody wants to hire someone and to only to have to let them go like these are families are taken care of and like so people talk about culture and we had someone actually was at engelberg, one of the owners of Pella windows him and Peter Martin. I think they were episode one actually. And they said that culture Trump's strategy every time I've always I've mentioned that a lot, because it's really resonated with me and sometimes I wonder personally, like, you know, I don't give a lot of time to myself thinking like, Oh, I'm a leader or not. So then sometimes I'm like, oh, man, am I a bad leader? Like if we're struggling as a company Is it my fault? I mean, it likely is I mean, my name is on the side. Right? And, and so anyway, I guess where I'm going with that is like how have you guys found success and thinking about your employees creating. So you both have mentioned culture a few times, since it was one of the things that was one of the reasons why you consolidate everyone under your roof. Talk to us a little bit about, you know, some things that you think about, and some things that you've been able to basically enable that has created a positive, you know, team culture.
Mike Lejune 45:26
So I came from a dinosaur industry, the steel business, and in the 80s, I started working there in the 70s. And, and was the CEO in the 80s. And
Mark D. Williams 45:40
it was Andrew, that's before internet. Yeah.
Mike Lejune 45:42
I mean, safety was just not something that people thought that much about in cultures, all that touchy feely stuff, nobody cared about that. And, and when I got to Fabcon, it was the same. And we had, we had for four main principles, safety, service, quality, efficiency, and I focused on those things. And, you know, we did talk about culture, and I did, obviously, I wanted people to be happy there. And I recognize that people weren't happy, they weren't weren't gonna want to work with me work for us. And they weren't wanting to stay in turnovers bad. And then went to we had a terrible culture. But I had an HR director, I'll say, and he came to me any he said, you know, you're never going to achieve what you want. And safety, service quality efficiency, if you don't focus on the culture, you get that culture, right, and the rest will come. And boy, was he right. And that was like, just an epiphany for me. And to me, since then culture is probably the most important thing, you can say safety is the most important thing. But without the culture, you're not going to get the safety. I mean, it really comes down to the culture, you won't get any of the other things. And it also makes it a fun place to work, which I which, you know, I'm spending most still spending most of my time there. And I like going there. And I want it to be a place where everybody likes to go there.
Mark D. Williams 47:00
What are some things that you would say, is a positive culture? Like, how would you define a positive culture?
Mike Lejune 47:07
I mean, the number one thing is respect, in my opinion, and treat everybody with respect. And something I say all the time when people are really unsure, really sick of hearing it, is assume best intentions. Nobody goes to work in the morning trying to do a bad job or playing and doing a bad job. And you know, that person that you think isn't working very hard, because your department worked so hard, and nobody else does anything, you walk a mile in their shoes, and you're gonna find
Mark D. Williams 47:30
that's really good advice, summed up into a single sentence. And it reminds me of something I heard once that we judge other people by their actions, but we want people to judge us based on our intentions. Sure. And I liked the way you phrased it.
Unknown Speaker 47:45
I liked the way you phrased it.
Mark D. Williams 47:50
You know, that would came from more of a spiritual background of just like, you know, I mean, it's easy, you know, you know, picking out the mode of your brother's eye and worried about the beam in your own eye. But I think that's the thing, right? And we don't know, because, you know, You're your own person, I can't read your mind. I'm not Professor Xavier. And so you know, the point here is like, you need to ask people, but I love that idea that if you go into a situation, assuming that they have done their best or try their best or simply you don't know the answer, or ask a question, and I could use a good reminder of that. I like sometimes when someone on my staff sometimes we just did a personality test recently. And so it's just interesting to see you know, I don't know if you guys don't need the disc assessments or some of that stuff. It's really a lot of personal super enlightening it's we did this one called insights and it was incredible right about that was so incredible. That's funny cuz you're reading it and you're like, wow, how is this part of this? Like, it's like your brother wrote this about you? Like they know everything and it's like, it's incredibly accurate anywhere I was going with this is sometimes you know, I'm a very strong red yellow, which a lot of business owners are and you know, like the green blue in this scenario, you know, they need more time to process a little more feelings, you know, where I don't want to like you're frustrated and and now I want an answer now. Words are you try finishing their sentence? That always goes really well. And but anyway, you know, then it's like, you know, I've had my staff before it, Mark, take a deep breath, relax, and let me just explain everything because it's like, you know, as soon as you're saying something, you keep our eye keep jumping ahead six or seven steps. So I've taken it now or I usually bring a notepad in I start writing stuff down because I can't stop the thoughts. And so I feel like if I can write them down a temperature that might give my staff more anxiety because it's like, as they see me writing like, oh, man, Mark is just like, you know, wigging out over there with his notepad you know, but anyway, how you how have you processed that with team members that have maybe different energy levels or different personality sets have you harnessed that so that you don't overwhelm older? Yeah, no, I mean, it does majority does older
Mike Lejune 49:42
and mellowed out and, and, and went through a lot of the same exercises that you're talking about? Yeah, a lot of time and just you become wiser over time. And I had a long way to go, that's for sure. I started from a very low spot, but you know, over time and making a lot of mistakes, you kind of learn it How to deal with people I've
Mark D. Williams 50:00
found, I found that marriage actually, we just celebrate our 10th or 10th anniversary yesterday. Great, thank you. And I, it's funny how often I think of, you know, building a home is super emotional, right? I want to Google this because I use it enough as analogy that, you know, if it takes it, let's say, a year to build your house, year and a half to build your house plus a half immune, sometime in design, let's just say it's conceivable a year and a half to two years of your life, you're gonna be with your builder, right for my industry. And, you know, ours is very relationship based. And so I haven't been joking, like, you know, you're gonna be with us longer than like the three girls you dated in college, consecutively, like, you're gonna be with us for a long time. So choose the builder, or the relationship of your choice a little bit based on who you want to be around for a while, honestly. And I think it's important because people focus so often on price. But relationship, to me personally is more important, you know, actually, you know, when we first met actually was not under ideal circumstances. And there was a lot of different things going on there. But I appreciate the conversation that you and I had had you and I talked probably three or four times on the phone. And I wasn't super involved with it, but I got involved with it. And it wasn't really the intent, but I appreciate how you handled it, it was just very straight, it was very matter of fact, and we had never met in person. And so I was fun. When we did finally meet, like, put a face to the name and like understand, you know, going back to your comment, Mike about assuming the best, like, after you kind of told your story and your side of it. You know, like, okay, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, you're here today, and we you know, we continue to work with you. And I think you're great people that makes that that's how someone handles something when things are very difficult. Even it's been even if it was doesn't matter whose fault it was. But when they handle it, like straight, you know, straight face right in the eyes and say, Hey, we messed up, or we'll get through it. You know, that's, that matters a lot to me. And that's not about price anymore. That's about a relationship because you like, okay, that that steel rod has been tested in the fire that sword like, I can go to battle now with something I know that's been proven. And so anyway, I've some every time anyway, see your name, I actually think about that as a testament as a positive thing. So I think a lot of good things can come out of a negative situation, when it's handled, right. It's like an opportunity to do something. Yeah, if
Mike Lejune 52:07
we had done it perfectly. Yeah, I never would have reached out to you to say, you know, can you release the rest of the payment? And, and, and, and, you know, you and I talked a little bit and then let some you know, and you and Andrew talked and one thing led to another and before you know, I think we I think we came out and met with you. Out here we went to went to Huanchaco went a lot of tacos. You're right. And it kind of made our pitch to you. And then that and then you found it interesting. And that led to this
Mark D. Williams 52:37
one. It's funny because I think salesman, Andrew and I, well, you're a salesman to Mike, but like, salesmen love to be sold. Like I love to sell, I actually love to sell other people's stuff. Actually, it's way more enjoyable to sell other people's stuff. Because I don't have to, you know, do I need a backer board. So like even the sponsorship for the podcast, and I won't sponsor something I don't believe in, but I love selling other people's products, especially when I believe I mean, I believe in it, otherwise, I wouldn't sell it right. And I just love that because I love introducing people. And that's really what sales is, whether it's introducing them to your team or introducing them to someone else's team. But I loved how you guys took a difficult situation and came back over the top saying, hey, you know, what can we do to earn your business and to be a partner with you like that resonated with the sales side of me like, Okay, someone who is trying to run from responsibility or trying to get out of it doesn't do what you did, which is ask for more business and and like, in the way you did it also is what was really important as well, but it was it was meaningful. It was real. And it was full of integrity. I haven't thought about until just right now, but that's the reason why, you know, we do business with you. And we will continue to do business with you. And we'll do more business, right? Because those things matter. Yeah. And so it's it's
Andrew Lejune 53:42
kind of funny, I think we had a we had a job and this you know that it was actually a multifamily apartment job and something went wrong. And you know, I think it was a communication and, you know, the measure and he's like, oh, you know, this is not good. And I was like, This is great, you know, because I just knew what we wanted to build that relationship with it. You know, it was a minor problem that I knew we could fix. It wasn't gonna we and we could end up in a good spot and I was like, we just solidified this relationship this Pm now we're gonna work together now he's gonna remember how we work together and I look forward to that. Yeah,
Mike Lejune 54:18
there was just construction is so important instructions. So it's gonna be challenges. That's how you respond to them.
Mark D. Williams 54:23
We had Brock Steen log on from anchor builders builders. Yeah, he told the funniest story about like one of his guys like back to Bobcat into the neighbor's house and like ruin some stuff. And like he turned it into multimillion dollars with a business which is basically it started with it was a small repair, which he took care of. And then this homeowner couldn't find anyone to do it. Let's say Adak. So he did the deck and then so basically, he kept going so I joked on the podcast that hey, man, if you really want to increase your sales, just do a little bit of property damage, not a lot of property damage, just enough that you know you can fix it and then do some more. I'm
Andrew Lejune 54:55
sorry. I ran over that tree. Yeah, a little sapling. Yeah. So It's
Mark D. Williams 55:00
funny because it's weird that you have a hammer in your, in your card bag, you hand out cards and go around a bank, some beers, building
Unknown Speaker 55:06
rocks and some windows. Oh,
Mark D. Williams 55:09
that's funny. Well, as we get closer to, it's interesting, because, you know, we've recorded this a second time, as we mentioned, the audience, this podcast was completely different. The first one, I mean, the other one, we talked all about what you know, glass heart specialities could do and I guess a plug for you guys is checking your website is incredibly be a beautiful, you guys spent a lot of money and redoing it. And I love the way it interfaces for those out there that, you know, we didn't go into all the different speciality things that you do. And it's really impressive what you can do. And we didn't get to focus on that right now. I want to just kind of close a little bit with Where do you see the future of your business? And you know, what's kind of your what is your 135 years kind of look like from here on out?
Unknown Speaker 55:46
I'll let Andrew answer because I'm curious as well.
Mark D. Williams 55:51
How many more? How many more companies are you buying?
Mike Lejune 55:54
I hope we do buy another company. I'd like to do do at least one more.
Andrew Lejune 55:57
Okay. Yeah, no. And I, we, we actually had our strategic you know, we've been doing some actually somewhat of a culture thing, but also strategic plan. And we had an old strategic plan, we had old values old, Vision old mission, it was for glass art. Now we've got this other avenue, which is, you know, the multifamily and the neighborhood production builders or, you know, the track builders, people would say, in return, identify what that looks like. And I've got an idea in my mind, but I want everyone else to, you know, kind of, let's all talk about it. Let's, you know, figure out what that is. But, you know, I see us growing with the custom builders, locally, interior designers, architects and other glass fabricators for Glasser design. You know, and I see, you know, revenue wise, you know, I'm thinking, you know, he's probably he'd probably go crazy when he sees the numbers that I think we can get to. And I think he did say I said you something you're like, and I know that looks pretty
Mark D. Williams 56:53
good. He said, We need to talk. Like, I think Andrew is delusional. Yeah.
Andrew Lejune 56:58
But you know, and I think it's all based on some reality, too. I mean, I think there would need to be some acquisitions in there. But, you know, I want to be, you know, the go to and multifamily showers and mirrors, I'm gonna be the go to, and production builders, track builders, because of our quality, because of our reputation because of our pricing. All that but you know, custom builders, I think, you know, reputation matters and the industry and how you deal with problems, just like how you, you know, you get this relationship with a pm that is building out, you know, 200 unit multifamily apartment complex, you know, a lot of that's driven by cost, they don't have as maybe as much say, whereas you're doing a $20 million custom home. Those that's usually driven by relationships, they know, they can lean on you, and the cost is important. But if you're in the ballpark, that relationship we've worked to before things have gone sideways, you know, it's customized, how did you handle it. So building that reputation is kind of, I think, another way to get
Mark D. Williams 57:58
there, I didn't notice this up just now, because I'm looking at your shirt, as you're talking about this thing. It says glass art. And then obviously, the rest of the name is designed, you have one of the best names in the business. Because it because there's very few names that tell the user or the buyer or the end product, purchaser, if you will, what you do, who you are in, like what level you are in stratus, you have glass, art, and design. And it'd be very interesting if you didn't, the previous person you bought it from, but it's a pretty genius name it is because there's a lot of really bad names in just general. Yeah. And I think my own name is pretty bad in the sense that like, as a builder ever, Why does every builder think they need to have their name slapped on the side of their truck. As a 22 year old, I really wish someone and call it marketing had talked a little bit about the power of branding, because that was not something that was mentioned. And we actually last year went through a rebranding phase, you know, we get new logos and all the other stuff. But we did look at some other names. And then at the end of this time is like, Oh man, I've done this for 20 years to change it now. Seems like that's the you're going the wrong way. If that was, your name is great. And it seems like from a branding standpoint, it's spot on with wherever you want to take it. Because I'm thinking about from production, right? If you're a production, and you're coming off as glass art design, just by the name alone, it's like, oh, these guys get it. You know, it's it's still a piece of art. They still care about quality, like your name seems to resonate that and you've often also backed up. Yeah, yeah, I
Mike Lejune 59:27
kind of alluded to it earlier. I mean, the people that we're selling to the volume type customers, we're selling as glassware in Minnesota. But the fact that they go on they find out that we own glass or design and that we're all in the same shop and they say it just gives us a credibility for quality that you I don't know how you'd earn it any other way. Why would you go out of curiosity, why
Mark D. Williams 59:47
would you keep the old brand name?
Mike Lejune 59:50
I think glass art design, it is a great name. If you're like for you doing custom, I say but if you're like a value type builder, it doesn't sound like a value So
Mark D. Williams 1:00:00
interesting. So I'm so excited about it because it resonates with my core values. But it could actually be the opposite. If you're trying. Okay, that's interesting.
Andrew Lejune 1:00:06
Yeah. And then we change you speak last year outlet, which is a man, that sounds cheap. That was a discount. I remember I was checking into Associated Builders and Contractors singing everywhere new members or something. What do you again is class discount glass? What was it called again? And I was like, well, that's yeah, we definitely got to change that name. But to change it from glass and mirror outlet to glass mirror, Minnesota, we kept the glass and mirror one for SEO purposes. One because it's self descriptive, and you know what you're selling. But Minnesota why why Minnesota? And I think that's partly SEO. You know, everyone Search Engine Optimization looking for, but also to give that rip this is our vision to is that we are the glass and mirror company for Minnesota. Yeah.
Mark D. Williams 1:00:44
Which I assume that it would send to like a four state area as well. Big opportunity
Andrew Lejune 1:00:48
to Midwest. Yeah, that would require another glass company,
Mark D. Williams 1:00:51
North America. And that's the long term vision, we'll get to revenue later, Mike Earth, planet Earth? What I mean, what do you where do you see the next three, five years? Will you still be involved in the company five years from now? Or what's kind of your trajectory?
Mike Lejune 1:01:08
I think if I think if I have much less of a role, I mean, I've I've an important role. And Andrew and I interact a lot. I think probably my most important role is his sounding board. Yeah. strategy. So because nobody else has time
Mark D. Williams 1:01:23
inside inside consultant. Yeah. And we both
Mike Lejune 1:01:27
I think I love that part of the business. But I think if, if I do this for much longer, I'm gonna be itching to buy another business to so that, you know, this goal I've always had of slowing down doesn't actually happen.
Mark D. Williams 1:01:42
secretly trying to sabotage your own goals. Yeah, not really be
Mike Lejune 1:01:45
what I want. I think, yeah, as soon as I as soon as I start getting my arms around things, and it's been that way, my whole life. I'll do something to screw it up. So I have to work harder again. Right. Yeah.
Andrew Lejune 1:01:56
Well, I think there's I mean, the challenge, then, I mean, I think is what we're talking about is okay, for bringing in another company for bringing in more people for bringing in more revenue. You know, I'm thinking, you know, and again, I'm in the day to day, I'm in the weeds everyday to, you know, talking about someone's showered, or that, you know, that that was just a little bit off or something like that. And that that's like a highly detailed thing for a retail customer in their home. And, you know, Woodbury and I'm like, trying to think about, okay, how do I set up my sales organization, you know, to? So then when we take on these builders, that we have this flow? And Are there levels, is it install manager, managing these people as a shop manager, you know, and trying to set up really an org chart for what we can scale to. So that's kind of what I think with acquisition and how do you bring that on? And I think that's going to be the real challenge. And next few years. I mean, right now, we've we did the, we did the hard part, I think, I mean, the hard part still coming. But you know, setting up those systems that can be scalable, that you can actually onboard more people. I don't, I didn't feel feel like we were there before. Now. I do. Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 1:03:02
I feel like anything, we talked about this for me last time, I was right in the middle of our I mean, we've been basically almost a year now into kind of our process change. And it's been pretty brutal. Yeah, it's not an enjoyable place to be, I'd say, the last year and a half, frankly, you know, you see this though, whatever, changed it a half a year of it, you know, not working, then you spent a year fixing it. And now it's only now or you start seeing some light at the end of the tunnel that you start feeling like wow, this, and I'm kind of thankful for my team for kind of sticking around, cuz you're like, wow, it is not, then, you know, I've not always been what I've wished I was, you know, I wish I personally, as an owner, I'd like to be able to create enough space to give my team my time when they need it. Where I feel like, you know, I am a little bit like you, Andrew, where I blocked my time. So, you know, so efficiently within my kind of schedule, that I don't leave enough time in there for flexibility. And, and I think I need to do that's one of my goals for next year is actually actually the opposite of what you did, which is just I need to say no to more stuff, because I've spent 43 years saying yes to pretty much everything. And so it's actually a lot harder to say no to things. But I do think I see some real benefits to being more present not only personally, but also in the business. And I don't think I'll ever really get there personally. But it's more of just an aspiration to try to create space where, you know, if your team says, Hey, I need time, and I'm like, buzzing out the door to a podcast, or I'm going to go do a tour of something or I'm going to, you know, just almost too many commitments, or you got to hire some more people to help take that off of you. Because either one of you have an assistant or anyone that helps manage some of your Have you guys ever thought about it? Or do you ever feel like it'd be day,
Mike Lejune 1:04:38
every day because they had one? You know, for 25 years I had I had an assistant and it was great.
Mark D. Williams 1:04:44
So why haven't you cost
Mike Lejune 1:04:46
money? Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's too small business really to justify it.
Mark D. Williams 1:04:51
Okay. That's funny because I'm a company of five and I'm thinking about it. Yeah, I mean, I had a virtual assistant for the I still have one for the last eight 910 months. It's been a game tender for me mentally, I should look into that because, I mean, I'll put you under some, some people for that it's been, it's been absolute for me personally, as someone that has a lot of ideas, I need to get them out of my brain and on paper. And for me being able to delegate, sometimes it's just simple stuff, you know, hey, we create this PDF or a pitch or we do this or that I don't have a full time marketing person. So you know that it does take many hats, many roles, I have found that to be extremely liberating for me personally.
Andrew Lejune 1:05:28
Well, I think and I think there's a threshold to where it's like, Okay, what's your time worth? Is that that's kind of and he's like, okay, am I I'm in there Look, putting the spreadsheet together just because I want to get these numbers. Okay, but I could be selling this, you know, million dollar house. And, you know, it's like, what is what is that worth? And I think we're not there yet. But you know, I think that threshold is where it's at. And but if it frees up
Mark D. Williams 1:05:51
time, yeah, I
Unknown Speaker 1:05:52
mean, what's your time especially? Well, especially, I
Mark D. Williams 1:05:54
mean, you could probably get 10 more networking groups. Well, thanks very much for coming on. We'll leave it we'll leave it on that. Where can our guests find you if they're looking to, to do work with you or find out more about you?
Andrew Lejune 1:06:06
Glasser design.com glass mirror minnesota.com classroom Minnesota production multifamily Glasser design is a decorative and high end custom. Yeah, I think we always have lunch and learns interior designers come in. And I think that's it brings a lot of value. So reach out to us. We're always welcome. Welcome to have them in and show them the space
Mike Lejune 1:06:27
sounds great. Got a great deli around the corners the food's good. But we we do one person design firms and you know huge contractors in lunch and learns and we'll do for anybody we just, you just never know where it leads come from. So we were just really open you're not too small for us to want to do a lunch and learn with if you want to come in for lunch and learn we'll do it. Yeah, it's Andrew Glasser design and Mike Glasser design really clever.
Mark D. Williams 1:06:54
Yeah, well, it's a lot easier and spelling your last name actually loves you. And it's pretty easy. Just sounds fancy. Yeah. Well, thank you again for coming on. Thanks for coming on to the curious builder podcast for those listening, and we'll catch you next time. Thanks. Thank you. Oh, eight minutes over that time. Usually, it's like, you know, I get so excited about the thing. I could go for like hours. It'd be easy. Did you listen to the podcast, which went all in? No, but I have it in my notes. I was just looking at a list. I was like, you'll be blocked
Unknown Speaker 1:07:23
and you'll be telling everybody

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Episode 40 - Growing a Glass company through culture and relationships with Mike & Andrew LeJeune

Episode #40 | Mike & Andrew LeJeune | Glass and Mirror Minnesota

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Episode 40 - Growing a Glass company through culture and relationships with Mike & Andrew LeJeune

Episode #40 | Mike & Andrew LeJeune | Glass and Mirror Minnesota

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About Mike & Andrew LeJeune

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Episode 41 - Self-performing Construction Jobs and San Diego Building Permits with Dagan Koffler

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