Q & A Episode 23 - How Signing a 2x4 Can Change Your Legacy Forever!
Episode #23 | Q&A with Mark D. Williams | How Signing a 2x4 Can Change Your Legacy Forever!
In this episode of The Curious Builder, host Mark Williams dives into the concepts of legacy and brand experience, offering insights into what drives builders to create meaningful projects. He reflects on his own motivations, shares heartwarming anecdotes about the homes he's built, and discusses the importance of curiosity and authenticity in the building industry. It's a thought-provoking and heartfelt exploration of what it means to leave a lasting impact through one's work.
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About The Curious Builder
The host of the Curious Builder Posdast is Mark D. Williams, the founder of Mark D. WIlliams Custom Homes Inc. They are an award-winning Twin Cities-based home builder, creating quality custom homes and remodels — one-of-a-kind dream homes of all styles and scopes. Whether you’re looking to reimagine your current space or start fresh with a new construction, we build homes that reflect how you live your everyday life.
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Mark Williams [00:00:00]:
I think the reason we work so hard for our brands to work and our businesses to work is there's probably something in all of us that drives us. I'm not sure I even know why. From a personality assessment. I look at my disc assessment, it's mostly red and yellow, driver and visionary. So you've got a lot of drive, a lot of willpower, and then the yellow is visionary. You've got these ideas. And when you have a lot of ideas happening and they're supported by a lot of willpower, that is, you're going to have a lot of business owners. Welcome to Curious Builder podcast.
Mark Williams [00:00:36]:
This is Mark Williams, your host. Today is our Q A session, and this question is written in by our good friend Morgan Molitor. From construction to style. And her question is, what legacy do you hope to leave in the spaces you build? How do you want people to feel when they live or work in what you created? That's a great question. Recently I saw on my Instagram feed actually was Mike Tyson was actually talking about legacy, and he was pretty abrupt about it. But I agree with him. I've never really. I don't build to create a legacy.
Mark Williams [00:01:03]:
To see, like, I want people to remember Mark Williams. That's just not something that's really that important to me. You know, I. I think this is getting, I guess, pretty deep really quick. Like, I think, you know, time and what we're doing is, is for the living. And so if people remember me after I'm passed, then great. I hope it. It's helpful for them.
Mark Williams [00:01:23]:
But it's not something that motivates me. It's not something I'm. It's not that I'm not interested in. It's just not something I guess I spend any time thinking about. But this question that Morgan posed is more about what is, if I was to look back at the last 20 years, what would I be known for? And now that I would say. And maybe it's just. I don't like the word legacy because I feel like there's a lot of ego that gets attached to it. Like, I want to be known for this.
Mark Williams [00:01:44]:
And maybe it's more like I'm. I'm thankful for the things that we have done and the experiences that we've had and that people have had a good interaction with it. So if that's my legacy, that people felt like they could be themselves or people got a chance to prove themselves or people were a part of building home. One of the things that is so gratifying about building A home is you can drive by a home that you've done with your children or yourself. And I find myself sometimes driving through old neighborhoods where I built homes years ago in my career and or bringing my kids and saying I built that home when I was 25, 26 years old. And just so that they can see it. There's not very many things. And that's why I think building can be such a rewarding career where you can see what you've done.
Mark Williams [00:02:29]:
It, it's still there. And I think that is a really powerful thing to consider of how it informs our decisions going forward. And I guess for me, I guess I'd like to be known for being open minded, for being honest, to have high degree of integrity and for quality and for just listening to my clients. I think I've gravitated towards what I've done because I'm very interested in it and you're curious about what you do. But I couldn't have done this if my clients didn't also think I could do it. Or in some ways, I think my wife, when we rebranded our company couple years ago in terms of typography and coloring and the website and all the things she had said that your company has transformed into what your clients wanted it to be or like you've evolved beyond where you were. And it's a slow, it's a little bit like you're, if you're training for a race, your body changes. If you train for a race over six months, like you don't notice it because you're dealing with it every day.
Mark Williams [00:03:25]:
But if you were to take a picture in the beginning and a picture at the end, or take a stopwatch of one mile at day one versus stop watch at one mile after six months, like they're totally two different things. But because we're in it every day, we lose sight of that perspective. And I think sometimes looking back of what we've done, where we've gone in our career, it can be really helpful. As we sit down towards the end of the year here and think about what does the next year look like, what does 25 look like, what are things that I want to do? I was recently at a 40 year old birthday, Justin Miles, good friend of mine, and he was on vacation and he wrote down the 40 things that have impacted his life up to this point. And it's actually on my to do list over Thanksgiving is I'm 44, a couple years older than him, and I want to write down 44 things that have happened in my life that have directed me to where I am both personally and professionally. And then looking forward, what would be the next 44 things that would potentially alter where I go as a company, where as I go as a person? And all these things, to answer the question, may affect our legacy, if that's the word we choose to use. And I guess if I was to hit by a truck or die in a plane crash or something like that, what would I be known for? I don't know. I feel like that's almost like a question like somebody else has to answer.
Mark Williams [00:04:39]:
I think it's hard to answer for yourself. I don't think any of us, or at least I don't spend a lot of time thinking about what that would be. And maybe that's something we should ask our peer group, our friends and family. And if we don't like the answer, what can we do to change it? And if we do the answer, what can we do to keep doing it? So that's something that I want to do. Maybe even this week. Maybe that'll be a sober Thanksgiving. Usually around Thanksgiving, this episode will air the week after. But usually we'll go around the table and say all the things we're thankful for.
Mark Williams [00:05:05]:
But maybe in this case, we'll all say, what are the things that we all appreciate about the other person? Because I feel like that ends up being your legacy. And I feel like a company, especially when the company represents your own brand. In my case, Mark Williams Custom Homes is my building company. And I guess I'm at the curious builder as well. What are you known for? And I think sometimes having someone else tell you what they think it is, it helps inform what you are. So I do know that I want people years later to go through a house or if they buy one of my homes, to go through and say, wow, this is really high quality. And regardless of what the style was at that time, or not to be like, wow, this trim has held up fantastic. This, these wood floors, these cabinets.
Mark Williams [00:05:44]:
I've always tried to align myself with partners that have similar values. I think of Rich hip my cabinet shop, which is so conscientious. It's like having another remodeler and builder on my team who is my cabinet guy. He. The amount of times that he calls me and says, hey, have you thought of this? Have you considered this? And it's such an invaluable part of our team. It's hard to think of how we operate without people like that. And Rich is one of many. Just because they care so much about their craft.
Mark Williams [00:06:10]:
And I think having a legacy of listening to people that care, but also caring, really caring about what you do, I think that is. I think that's really important. I think it comes out in ways that we don't always understand. I think it comes out in our craft. I think it comes out in our communication. And I've said this many times on the podcast as well, that people forget what you say, but they remember how you made them feel. And I hope that's true of not only myself. I hope I make people feel good, but I hope also our homes make people feel good.
Mark Williams [00:06:39]:
Someone brought up recently, I think it was like the average. The average American lives in their home for 12 and a half years. Hopefully our homes are lasting longer than 100, 150 years. That is, let's say it's anywhere between seven and 12 people are going to live in your home during the lifespan of that home, maybe longer. Who knows how long these homes will last? And just think of people that you built a house for. They sell it. The home that you built is actually creating memories and putting a roof over a family's head where they're generating all their family memories. That's a pretty cool legacy to say you built a home that a family lived in.
Mark Williams [00:07:12]:
And I haven't done this, but I think of one of my childhood homes over in Chaska and Lake Bavaria. My parents moved 20 times. Just being builders and designers. We moved a lot, but for about 10 years, we're in one home. And that's what I identify as like my home. And there's a part of me, and I'll probably do it someday where I'll take my kids when a little bit older, and I'll probably go knock on the door and say, hey, I grew up in this house. I'd just love my kids to see the properties. Okay, if we walk around, I don't feel any need to walk into the house unless they invited us, but just to see the property.
Mark Williams [00:07:41]:
And I think there's a legacy to that. And I think not only can our homes that we build have a legacy on our brand and the choices that we make, but it can have a legacy to be on just us. It's a legacy to the framer that framed it, the mason that put the stone on, the painter, all of those things. It's like their legacy, I heard recently. And it's something that I want to challenge people on my team to do. And I forget where this builder was at. I think it was in my builder 20 group. And he had just said that he had heard somewhere that at the end of each job or like the rough end stage, he has every single framer, especially the head framer, sign the inside of the house, like on a 2x4.
Mark Williams [00:08:20]:
And the idea is that they're signing their name to it. I thought that was really powerful. I was thinking about maybe as a tile. Tile setter is putting tile on it. Maybe he would sign the back of one of the top pieces of tile in the shower floor. Maybe one of the drywallers. As he's hanging up, he signs the back side of it, whatever the concrete mason. Maybe he signs his name underneath the.
Mark Williams [00:08:40]:
Where the steps are going to go. So you don't see it. Sometimes you do that with the kids and that's fun. But the idea is that if you're putting your name on it, you're likely to be a little bit more thoughtful about it, put a little more time. And I think that all affects your. The legacy, it affects the reputation that you're going to have by taking that extra moment. And even if that person isn't really into it or they think that's a little too for them or whatever they might think, I guarantee it'll make them pause and consider. And I bet they'll think, man, I want to make sure I do a good job.
Mark Williams [00:09:09]:
And I think I would challenge people to do this on the front end. Sure, you could have them do it at the end, but it might be too late to fix. If you've been having framers on your job site for two months, I think it's better off that they know that they're going to sign it when they're done and they'll be. That'll be rattling around in their brains. I'm gonna make myself a note, actually. I think the next home that we frame, I'm gonna. I'm gonna have everyone sign, do a sign up sheet and memorize it. It.
Mark Williams [00:09:39]:
This episode is brought to you by pella Northland. For 20 years, I've been using Pella windows. And I couldn't be happier to call them as a business partner, a trade partner, and someone that really supports us in our quality builds. We use wood windows and doors on every single one of our homes, and 98 of every home that I've ever built has been a Pella window. I've gotten to know their team here locally as well as nationally, and the way that they support us as a craftsman as well as they support our homeowners with their lifelong guarantee it's actually been a game changer for me. So when people ask me who I use, I recommend Pella. If you want to hear more about Pella story, you can listen to episode one where I interview Peter and Ed from Pella Northland about their journey into the Pella ownership. This episode is brought to you by Adaptive.
Mark Williams [00:10:22]:
For over two years now, I've been using Adaptive. It's an incredible game changer. It's AI technology based, it helps you with bill pay, and as a builder, there's very few things that anger our subscribers more than not being paid on time. Well, those days are gone. Not only do you know exactly where you are, but you can pay people through your ACH channels. Making draws extremely quick with one click of a button, which used to take hours, my office staff is now able to generate a draw to the bank or to the client in literally seconds. The thing that I appreciate the most about Adaptive is their ability to keep changing. We've given them three or four feedbacks on things that we need as builders and within just a few months those, they're rolling those things out.
Mark Williams [00:11:02]:
This is saving us hours per week and day, days per month in terms of our efficiency. If you're looking to upgrade your business, I'd highly recommend Adaptive. You can reach out to them@adaptive.com or listen to the Curious Builder podcast episode 15 or episode 80 where we dive into their origin story. The second question is beyond Homes. It says working with you and your brand. What is the end goal? What are you working so hard for at the end of the day? Wow, Morgan, bringing some big questions here. Brand experience. Wow.
Mark Williams [00:11:35]:
Maybe I'll start with Mark or with the Curious Builder. I think with the brand experience with the Curious Builder, I have a much clearer vision of what I want that to be. I do have a clear vision for Mark Williams Custom Homes as well, but for the Curious Builder brand, it's all in the name. I want people to be curious about their jobs, what they do, ask questions. It's probably no surprise to people listening, but I ask a lot of questions. I've told the story once before, but it comes to me now. I think it was in my fifth grade math class and I had to present on a Friday and I was presenting blueprints. I was going to talk about my dad's building company and math and relate it to whatever math project we were working on or something like that.
Mark Williams [00:12:10]:
And none of the kids wanted to take a test. And I asked him, I said, if you ask questions and I can ask questions we can filibust this entire hour and not have to take the math test. And I think so all the whole student body got into it, and I don't think the teacher knew what was going on. And after about 25 minutes, I think the teacher figured out what we were doing, but I think she was so impressed that the kids had somehow coalesced into filibusting this whole hour. We got the whole weekend to prepare for the mass test, math test, and take it on Monday. And I guess my point is I love it when people ask questions. I like to ask questions. I like it when kids ask questions.
Mark Williams [00:12:41]:
I. I don't. There's so much that I don't know, especially in building. It served me so well. I'm not an expert. I really applaud the people that are really knowledgeable and spend tons of time. I think the Matt Risingers, the Nick Schiffers, the Brad Levitts, the people that are super into their craft and they're documenting, they're figuring out how it goes. I think of Michael Anch Shell from Otagawa Anchell here on a build now.
Mark Williams [00:13:04]:
I actually have a meeting with him tomorrow to talk about a home that we're doing, you know, bringing some of these really interesting people onto the podcast. They're so knowledgeable that they'll. They have forgotten more than I'll ever know. Don Forsman, he's in the collective. He's got an incredible operation. And I love listening to. I love listening to their brains work and how they explain things, but they're curious, too. The.
Mark Williams [00:13:26]:
The reason that they do what they do is they're very specifically curious on, like, how things are built and they want to present it and teach other people. And so I think at the core of it, I think you're either asking questions, and I think even teachers, the best teachers, are the ones that ask questions, too. And I think there's multiple different ways to teach. Sometimes people teach by saying a lot, and that's fine. If you have a lot to say or if you have a lot of knowledge, great. But some people like me, have a lot of questions. I don't feel like I know all that much. And so I'm constantly asking questions.
Mark Williams [00:13:53]:
Or maybe it's because I forget everything. I just have to ask the question over and over again. So I. I feel like with my brand, with the Curious Builder, I want people to ask questions. One thing that I'm very open about is being vulnerable. And I make tons of mistakes. I make. I make mistakes when I talk I say too much.
Mark Williams [00:14:09]:
I start over my words. I wordsmith. I'll sometimes take two words as I'm talking that shouldn't belong together and I just smash them together and go with it. And not sure that's a great idea, by the way, but I do it. And it's not that I do it deliberately. It's just part of my nature and how I who I am as a person. But I, I want people to just be comfortable in their own skin, be authentic. Whatever that is for you is, that's what's the most appealing is when people are just authentically themselves.
Mark Williams [00:14:35]:
I look at my dear friends in business, the people that I gravitate towards, they're just super real. And I think I like I listened. Recently, Morgan Molitor had an interview on the Modern Craftsman about motherhood and balancing it and all this stuff. And I just loved it. It was such I know her extremely well. But I think what gravitates to those types of episodes is people are just real. And I think as humans, like we all struggle as entrepreneurs, we have successes as entrepreneurs, we have failures at personal, we have successes in personal. It's the whole thing.
Mark Williams [00:15:05]:
You can't really take one thing without the other. And I love in this sense that the Kiers Builder has become a platform of just be real. Listening to these stories. I love hearing people's stories. And so I that when I have people listen to the podcast, I want them to get something real. It started with I wanted them to get two or three business ideas out of it that they could apply to their business so that it was helpful, which is still, that's still one of my goals, one of my chief goals, actually. Brad Levitt does that as well. And that was really inspirational to me.
Mark Williams [00:15:33]:
I, I, I get a lot of value out of listening to his episodes on the Brad Levitt Podcast and and many other peers I have across the country. I love listening to their podcasts because I get so much out of it. But I think also just being real, having these amazing stories where people can just understand, it's difficult, it's hard. And yes, you can learn these different things, but at the end of the day, we're trying to relate to people and see how it relates to us. So that's one of the main goals, is just having open communication, asking lots of questions for Mark Williams Custom Homes, my building company, I guess I, I want people to know that the brand is going to be open. It's a little reflection of curiosity. Like I'm, I build a Lot of different style of homes. I work with a lot of different architects.
Mark Williams [00:16:11]:
I work with a lot of different designers. And I think that probably speaks to my adhd. I. I just. I don't like just one thing. I like a variety of things. And so I want the homes that we have to be multifaceted, like a rainbow. It's not just one color.
Mark Williams [00:16:25]:
There's a number of colors that are going to come in. And what I want with my brand experience, people to feel like it's real, it's unique. And I think the reason it's real and unique is pretty much every time you build a house, it's with a different team, right? Different designer, different architect, different subcontractor sometimes, although that's usually a pretty stable one. And different client. That's probably the biggest one. Different land I've built. As I mentioned, last week, I built a couple homes for clients where I've done a remodel and a new home for them. And the homes were quite different from one another because the site was different.
Mark Williams [00:16:58]:
And so I think sometimes, as builders, it's important for us to remember and also educate the client that the land has a big part to say in what the house becomes. And if we're not mindful of what that home can become, we can lose sight of. We can lose sight of another voice that's really powerful. The second part of this question that Morgan asked is, why are you working so hard? I honestly don't know. That's a great question. I think I'm going to have to spend some time contemplating that. I don't actually know why I work so hard. Oh, just thinking out loud.
Mark Williams [00:17:28]:
I. I think the reason we work so hard for our brands to work and our businesses to work is there's probably something in all of us that drives us. And maybe I'm. I don't think I'm the only person, but I'm not sure I even know why. I think there's something. I wonder if, like, why is somebody competitive? I don't know. I don't know why I'm competitive when I play sports. Like, why do I want to do.
Mark Williams [00:17:48]:
Why do I want to run a marathon or ultra marathon or whatever thing I come up with next? I don't actually know the answer. I think it has something to do with my personality. And I would imagine as I had. We had Paul Krummich on from Greenway Solar a couple weeks ago, as well as he owns Donkey Label, a racing company for cycling. And I think there's something in so many owners, this Type A, not perfection, but like this drive. I'm sure from a personality assessment, I look at my disc assessment, it's mostly red and yellow, driver and visionary. So you've got a lot of drive, a lot of willpower, power, and then the yellow is visionary. You've got this, these.
Mark Williams [00:18:25]:
You got these ideas. And when you have a lot of ideas happening and they're supported by a lot of willpower, I. You're gonna have a lot of business owners. And I think this would be an interesting question. It's a great question. I'd love to. I love. I wish Morgan was here right now to answer this question.
Mark Williams [00:18:40]:
I'm curious what drives her to work so hard. And I think a big part of it is, is when you like something and when you love something, it's easy to do it. I don't find it hard to get up for work. I can say that I've never been bored in 20 years. Far from it. I've been stressed, for sure. I've been stressed, I've been tired, I've been extremely happy, but I've never been bored. Never.
Mark Williams [00:19:01]:
And I think when you're constantly trying to iterate and create new things, I think that's really inspiring. I think sometimes we can inspire ourself. I think we look around at other people, what they're doing, it inspires us. But I think sometimes when you spend some time thinking about your brand, thinking about your experience, what you want your, in this case, legacy to be, I think it inspires us to do new things. I read a lot of biographies or I listen to a lot of them. The Founders podcast is an amazing podcast, and basically the whole thing is memoirs and biographies of very successful people. I wonder if, like somebody like Steve Jobs, what drove him to continue to improve. And I think people get it in their mind there's something that they really want to do and improve upon.
Mark Williams [00:19:40]:
And I. They're the people that move industries to varying degrees from a builder you look at, like maybe getting your house ready for net zero or you want to build it more efficiently or cheaper. Honestly, there's so many different things in building that could scratch that itch of I want to be known for this or this is why I work hard is because I want. And maybe it's money. Maybe you're motivated by money. Maybe you're motivated by your craft and you want to have the best whatever it is, the best cabinets, the best trim, the best paint job, the best architectural design. Maybe it's you want, maybe the things that, that gets you so passionate and so excited is you want recognition. Maybe you're doing it for others.
Mark Williams [00:20:17]:
I'd be a little careful with that one. I feel like if you're doing it intrinsically versus extrinsically, you can definitely last much, much longer. Looking back, this is a great question, Morgan. I'm gonna have to give her credit for this question because it's. This is a tough one. I feel like you could almost do it's. I want to just have an hour podcast of just talking to a number of builders and just ask them why they work so hard. And mainly because, I don't know, I think that's it's not something you could easily fit on a bumper sticker.
Mark Williams [00:20:42]:
This is why I work so hard. But I do know that if you love something, if you have passion for something, I think love and passion kind of can go hand in hand. You can really go a long way with passion. And so anyway, hopefully this episode has been helpful. Shout out to Morgan and we'll see you next week. Thanks for listening to the Curious Builder podcast. If you like what you listen to, please give us a five star rating and write us a review. It really means a lot.
Mark Williams [00:21:08]:
It's a great way for us to just understand what you like about the podcast and what we can keep doing. So like and review and please share with your friends and family. Find out more@curiousbuilderpodcast.com.
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