Episode 59 - Losers are Winners: How Admitting Failure Built a Million-Dollar Business with Mike Weaver

Losers are Winners

Sep 17

Episode #59 | Losers are Winners | How Admitting Failure Built a Million-Dollar Business with Mike Weaver

In this episode, Mark sits down with his friend Mike Weaver for a really honest chat about learning from mistakes—both at work and in life. Mike opens up about a big blunder early in his career that taught him why being upfront with clients matters so much, and he also shares his incredible journey losing 170 pounds (seriously impressive!). It’s a fun, down-to-earth conversation with plenty of laughs, hard-earned wisdom, and tips for turning your biggest fails into wins.

About The Curious Builder

The host of the Curious Builder Posdast is Mark D. Williams, the founder of Mark D. Williams Custom Homes Inc. They are an award-winning Twin Cities-based home builder, creating quality custom homes and remodels — one-of-a-kind dream homes of all styles and scopes. Whether you’re looking to reimagine your current space or start fresh with a new construction, we build homes that reflect how you live your everyday life.

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Mark D. Williams 00:00
For those that have been listening to curious builder podcast, you know how much I love the contractor coalition Summit. It's been the single biggest force multiplier in my business over 21 years. We're excited to announce again that we're coming back to Chicago November 7 through the 10th. All the details can be found at the contractor coalition summit.com and under the promo code for a $2,500 discount, type in curious builder, we'll see you in Chicago.

Mike Weaver 00:26
When you're on an extreme fitness journey, food can often feel like the enemy. Honestly, it's something I battle with even today, trying to figure out what type of foods I should be eating more often to fuel my body, versus the things I really just enjoy, to eat, and that a good combination of both is really important. It's a hard thing to learn. Man,

Mark D. Williams 00:54
welcome to career spirit Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today is our Thursday segment. Losers are winners, and I've got a good friend of mine, Mike Weaver from Emer tile, on the podcast straight out of his car.

Speaker 1 01:05
What's up? Mikey, good morning. Good morning. I'm just happy to be here.

Mark D. Williams 01:09
Yeah, likewise. Well, it's funny. Speaking of failures, we were going to talk about some other stuff, but we don't have, I don't have, from my tile vendor what I need to talk about. So we are shifting

Mike Weaver 01:20
to me. Hold on, you're not. No, I

Mark D. Williams 01:22
know I said my tile guy, not you. Yeah, no, that's, that's on, that's on our team. But anyway, so we're, we're doing an audible. And yeah, I thought you've obviously been a longtime listener, first time caller. I was wanting to say that. So what you got, you've got a long career? Well, we'll have you on in a future episode to talk about some other topics. But you know, this whole series is about what can we learn from each other, both personally, professionally. You know, stories you've seen, you also interact with so many builders and designers, things that you see. But you know, let's keep it personal. What are some failures that you've had in your own career that looking back, you realize the person you are today, the operator you are today is a result of how you changed because of those failures. Do you

Mike Weaver 02:05
want to start with a professional failure? Sure. Okay, I have a good one. So I have been, first of all, I'm currently the vice president of MS tile, responsible for sales, about half of the business. And I started just about 20 years ago in Reno, Nevada. My second location was in San Jose, California, and at that time, our business was about, Oh, I'm so excited to share this story. Don't hate me after I tell you about 40 let's see. About 40% of our business in that market was production, home builder, and then about 10% was kind of luxury and custom, and somewhere in the middle was a kind of semi custom business that a guy did a lot of volume, a lot of sales volume. I'm going to refrain from sharing his name, because I know he's a listener, but I'm going to, I'm going to just jump in. So I was the operations manager at the time, and responsible for all of the sales order entry, all of the logistics and tracking for all of his tile supply. We were his exclusive tile provider, and he was also really good friends with at that time, the vice president of our production builder segment. And if you ever, I'm sure your listeners can relate. If there was ever a customer that you were going to screw up on, it's usually that same customer over and over again. I don't know why, but it's just kind of a reality. And so I used to get really anxious entering the sales orders. And I remember this day like it was yesterday. I had gotten all caught up with all of the order entry. And I get a call one day, and it's this gentleman named rich, and again, I'm going to save the business name. And Rich says, Hey, Mike, listen, I'm calling to check on purchase order. CG, blah, blah, blah, and, and I didn't see the order in the system. First thing I thought was, oh, crap. I'm sure I missed it and forgot to get into the system, which meant his order is not going to be here tomorrow when he expects it. So I call him back and said, Listen, I'm sorry, but your material has to come from Seattle. It's not going to be here till Friday. This call was probably on a Monday or Tuesday. I'd said that out of angst and probably fear that he was going to be so upset that his material wasn't there transparently. The material was never ordered. It wasn't coming from Seattle as my fact, we don't have a distribution center in Seattle, but I was thinking of a place that had the longest distance enough time for me to order his material and get it here by Friday so that I could kind of fulfill my lie. And I didn't know it, but a few minutes later, I get a call from another gentleman that works in our that worked in our Sacramento location. And I said, Mike, I've got some bad news. And I said, What is? He said, Well, I got a call from this guy named rich looking for this order. He gave me a purchase order, and I saw the order was in the system, but it was just entered today, and I told him that it was just entered today, coming from California, and it will be there on Thursday. Now, I just told this customer, a long time exclusive ms customer, that the material was coming from Seattle and will be there on Friday, to try save myself some embarrassment and good, bad or indifferent. It was an absolute lie. Ian, subsequently, the customer, spent a year not talking to me and not ordering product from me. Not only did he spend that year, but he also called the president of our company to share this lie that I told. Now, I've been in business a long time. It is not my theory to lie to people. I will tell you this though I learned from that moment on to be absolutely transparent, whether it's good or bad, because ultimately, when we did connect, Rich and I, he shared that he wasn't mad that the material wasn't there, that I forgot to enter the order. It sucked, but he would have dealt with that. The fact that he had put all this trust and faith in our relationship and our ability to supply product, and I would lie to his face, changed our relationship. Honestly, it changed it forever. Ultimately, he began ordering again a year later and still exclusively with us today, in that same market, but our relationship will never be the same, and since then, I have always simply been transparent, even if I have some bad news to share, but it was probably the hardest lesson. And look, I'm, I'm a bit of a hustler, right? So I've always tried to find a way to get through, to get through, to make it happen. And it was just a terrible mistake, honestly. And I, again, I've learned so much from that single experience. And also, every time someone asks me about a failure story, that's the story I tell. It was brutal. I mean, that's

Mark D. Williams 06:19
a great one. I think we can all relate to that, whether it's person, personal, professionally, whatever it is. And I think in sales, I mean, we're always trying to Rosie it up a little bit, right? We're afraid of letting them down. But you're right. I mean, it's kind of like the first cuts the deepest, but at least it's a clean cut, you know, going medical, like if a wound, you know, if a wound gets infected, it's far worse, often than the actual wound itself. And so that's kind of speaks to that. Wow. What? How I assume you use that even in your sales meetings and as you train here people, just because it's such a powerful lesson. Yeah.

Mike Weaver 06:53
So one of the things that I've a newer person that started with me in South Florida. She's also responsible for our New York, New Jersey market, and really the first conversation that I had with her was transparency, and as we've built, as we've built this business over now 20 years, and my specific involvement in the custom and luxury space, I've learned that customers buy from people they trust. You become partners, and you you create something more than just a business relationship, or a purchaser and a supplier, you become friends and confidants, and you build a certain level of respect, and the last thing you want to do is lose that respect. That's an that's a topic of education for every new person I hire, really, and has been since a couple weeks after that incident in San Jose, California that changed my life.

Mark D. Williams 07:41
Yeah. How many years ago was that? About 20 years ago that was also at the very beginning. Wow. Well, it's good thing you learned that as a young person, because I would also

Mike Weaver 07:50
share that it was right before the crash of Oh, eight. And I think people saw things coming. And, you know, we were short staffed, and I was just looking for an excuse. And it just, honestly, it was all bad. It was all bad, right, right?

Mark D. Williams 08:03
What about personally? What comes to mind, if you were to think about that personally, things that you've Oh, man, you know,

Mike Weaver 08:09
so you and I have spent a lot of time talking about operating in the health and wellness space. And over the course of the last few years, I've lost, what, 100 and almost 170 pounds in the last five years.

Mark D. Williams 08:23
By the way, the picture you posted this weekend was insane. I've never seen it. You've referred to it many times, but I've never actually seen that.

Mike Weaver 08:30
My waist in that picture, by the way, was a 56

Mark D. Williams 08:35
What is it today? 36 insane. That's amazing.

Mike Weaver 08:41
So, so I have been on this low carb journey, honestly, probably 25 years, no joke, since before I was married, since before I started with them. And I've always struggled with my weight and fitness. And I've always been the fat friend or the always been the biggest, you know, and one of the biggest mistakes that I made was I would go on these, you know, five day diets, and then I would take the weekend off, and I get back on, and I take the weekend off, I get back on. And I did that for, quite literally, probably 18 to 20 years, and I couldn't figure out I would have these spikes of weight loss, or really, you know, some good progress. Still, I was actually, from my perspective, disgusting, but I would have little wins and get excited and then go on vendors. And it wasn't until my daughter, I've got two things that brought this to life. One thing is, my daughter told me that I was fat, and she said it so innocently. She said, Well, Daddy, you fat, you fat. Daddy. You know that was one. And then another experience about five years ago was I was boarding the plane, and I was not in first class, but in, like, the second set of economy plus, or something like that. And the the stewardess, I don't know if you can say stewardess, but anyway, the stewardess asked me that a flight attendant. It if I needed a seat belt extender? And I said no, but the reality is, I did, and it was terribly uncomfortable to sit in that seat, and I didn't get one, but I realized kind of in that moment that I've got to do something and just not look back. And at that moment, I began this really intense journey of kind of focusing on my health and wellness first and putting everything else, somewhat, somewhat second. In part, it was for my family and my wife and my daughter, and really, in part, was for my own self confidence. And then, like, a year later, after this journey, I'm visiting with my dad, and in Oregon, he's a pastor and really, really wonderful individual. He said to me, said some when people follow you, they they want to know that you can do what you say and say what you do, and if you can't control what you put in your mouth and how often you go to the gym and take care of yourself, how do you expect to run an entire team? How do you expect to run a multi million dollar business if you can't even control what you eat and you're fit, that those combination of things absolutely changed my life. And then, of course, I met you and all these other fitness freaks that were also builders, and now I just can't help it.

Mark D. Williams 11:16
I mean, that's an amazing story. It's funny because those three items I've always wondered about. I think everyone's on their own journey, and regardless of where you're at, it, in some ways it doesn't matter. It's more like you can take inspiration from others, but ultimately, and we hope, our stories and our shared camaraderie can all encourage each other wherever we're at, both professionally, in this case, personally. But it seems like it's an individual thing. I was just talking to someone recently about something, some quite similar, and I just said, I personally don't believe in diets. I believe in lifestyle changes. Because I don't, you know, a diet doesn't like you already kind of illustrated, you know, Monday through Friday you had a diet, but then Saturday and Sunday was a different lifestyle, and until you kind of had that aha moment, or kind of came to whatever it is. And, you know, I, I'm not, probably the person to talk about this, but I guess what comes to mind is somewhat of addiction. Because, like, you know, my wife is a physician, and I, you know, just, we've talked before about people she, she's in the hospital, that have, you know, drug seeking addictions, or, you know, alcohol addictions, or, you know, in this case, it's a food addiction, if you will, or regulation. I mean, there's so many, I mean, and you can have, you can have healthy pursuits that out of, out of whack. I mean, anorexia, bulimia. I mean, I used to, I used to coach cross country running for 10 years, and I coached the guys team, and it seemed at that time that the boys had less issues with this. But, you know, the girls coach and I would talk all the time, and we would see red flags where it was the other way, where people were starving themselves. You know you need food, you need fuel, depending on what your goal is, and so it's a super hard to

Mike Weaver 12:44
learn, by the way, that lesson, when you're on a when you're on an extreme fitness journey, food can often feel like the enemy, right? And I know this wasn't about health and wellness necessarily, but like, there, it's a real thing, and even honestly, it's something I battle with, even today, trying to figure out what type of foods I should be eating more often to fuel my body, versus the things I really just enjoy to eat, and that a good combination of both is really important. It's a hard thing to learn. Man,

Mark D. Williams 13:22
this episode is brought to you by adaptive. If you're still chasing checks and juggling spreadsheets, it's time to upgrade. Adaptive is revolutionizing how builders get paid with AI powered bill pay, automated draws, one click payments and built in Lean waivers, Faster Payments, fewer headaches and total visibility. Adaptive takes care of the back end chaos, so you can focus on what you do best, building. We've used adaptive for two and a half years, and trust them to keep our projects moving and payments flowing. Learn more at Adaptive dot build and simplify the Pay Process today. For more information, you can also listen to episode 10 and episode 15. This episode is brought to you by Pella windows and doors. I've used Pella for 21 years as the exclusive window company on every one of my builds. When people ask me who I trust for windows and doors, it's Pella every time. Their craftsmanship, their innovation, the top tier service, make them a no brainer for any custom home builder or designer who demand the best, whether you're designing something bold or building something with timeless elegance, Pella has you covered. They're also the only window company that has a lifetime warranty on all of their windows. I've gotten to know all their people at Pella corporate, as well as locally. Here at Pella Northland, I'm proud to call them our partners and our friends. Visit pella.com to learn more and connect with your local reps today. Also for more information, you can listen to episode one, where I interview their founders, as well as episode 109 where we talk about the innovation at Pella, you touched on something you know, as you know. And I think some of the audience knows, you know, the last three years I've kind of gotten into, you know, ultra distance events. And a big, big part of it is fueling. Is fueling. Fuel. I mean, it's, you know, you can't put, you can't put diesel in a, in a, you know, a jet airplane. It needs jet fuel. And runners, or whatever sort of fitness you're into, like, you need the proper fuel. So you've heard the thing, especially in running, they're called skinny fat, where people do a ton of exercise, but they actually are not fueling properly, and it's very dangerous. And I think, you know, as we sort of our lives change as you get older. I mean, there's all, I mean, this is all centering into a health podcast, which we need to have, what you and I would totally be totally on board with. We just need to have someone more qualified to speak about it. But I think what's sort of interesting is, to your point, like, there needs to be a blend of enjoyment. Because if you cut out enjoyment, what are you doing it for? And I think you can do it for a short period of time, but if you can't, sort of, you know, there's this, you know, I love this. Quote this quote, I forget who said it, like, if you can make pain your friend, you'll never be alone in your life. And the point was, like ultra running, or like distance events, you sort of have to embrace the suck or otherwise that you and you honestly, like I do, like there's something about it that you can sort of trick your mind, or like there's some enjoyment in this suffering. And I think I

Mike Weaver 16:00
have such a similar story, and we have got, we've probably got to move off the health and fitness. I'm going to one more thing I want to say about that. Yeah, yeah, go. So I go to the gym every single morning between four and 6am that's my start time, and I have this addiction to being there at least two hours, usually three or two and a half, something like that. And there's two things that I've become incredibly addicted to, first getting there earlier than everyone else, and being able to do 200% of my calorie goal during that workout for the day. So the objective is that I burn 2400 calories at a minimum within those three hours at the gym, or two and a half hours whatever, if not definitely that 2400 by the end of the day. And I hate to go to the gym. I hate it. I hate to work out like but I also am addicted to it like I know what it does for my body. I can see the physical transformation. So as much as I hate the actual experience and like the effort and the sweat, and I just can't help it, I you know, and I don't want the alternative, right?

Mark D. Williams 17:06
I mean, there's, there's a lot to unpack. There way more than the next five minutes gonna entail. I'd say the one thing I'd say about enjoyment, because there's obviously competition, or there's dopamine hit. I mean, you've set yourself a goal that by getting there earlier, it's like a little early win. And we do need to sort of stack early wins, right? And I think if you can find joy, then it's, in my opinion, it's sustainable. And so I do think some people are very self motivated. You're very self motivated. You can find joy, sort of in solitude and in a number of different little goals with yourself. But there's some, there's something really powerful about camaraderie, meaning, like, I was just like, right now I'm transitioning. I'm in my off season, and plus, I'm injured right now, so I'm trying to rehab my foot, and so I can't run, I can't play basketball, I can't play tennis, any of those things that I like to do, so I have to switch to something else, and it's been a tougher adjustment than I'd like, because I am such a people person, and I really thrive in a team concept. So one of the reasons why I'm able to run is, like, I don't even consider it running. In fact, I always like to joke with people actually don't like running. I just happened to like, Yeah, not really. I mean, it's fine and I, you know, but I like, I like the goal, I like the difficult objective, but ultimately, I like the people I train with. So I spend so much time with this, let's call it a group of anywhere between seven and 15 people, whether I'm biking or running with them, that it's, you know, it's life, it's camaraderie. I mean, you're spending hours and hours either biking or running. And so really, it's, to me, it's like philosophy lessons. It's like you're running through the woods talking about life, you're talking about business, you're talking about your personal life, you're talking about their life, you're talking about pop culture. And so it's like you're getting the news. It's, you know, the equivalent of, like a Russian bath house, except sitting there sweating. You're running and sweating, so the sweating is the same. But anyway, for me, it's the camaraderie. Like I am just such a people person. If I was a fish, I'd probably be a tuna, not a very sexy fish, but, like, I'd swim like in a giant pack with a bunch of other fish. And so it's like, you know, I would not be a solo fish. It would be, really, I'd be a very depressed solo tuna wandering the ocean.

Mike Weaver 19:04
So, so we have what I think is three minutes left, and you said something when you started that small monolog just now about being a tuna, which I absolutely love you as a tuna, you said something about early wins. And I want to touch on that, because it's something I believe in very much. And I'm I've always been like a very big thinker, like, you know, if I look at the goals that I set for myself and my team, I always think really, terribly huge, always, and I'm sitting with this brand new hire for the DFW metroplex, specifically focused on our custom home builder and outdoor business, and I set a sales goal for this rep, and it blew his mind. And I said, I expect you, within the first six months, to do $400,000 a month, and that's a lot of business. It's about $4.8 million a year, which is my minimum expectation. And I said, but you've. Got to boil it down to small wins. So I'm going to help you find on Monday. So today, after our podcast, actually a little bit later, but I said I'm going to go help you find a small win. And if you think of it this way, to do $400,000 a month, you need 20 customers that spend $20,000 a month. Okay, that's the thought. You need 20 customers to spend $20,000 a month. So I'm going to help you find the 20 customers. And every customer you find that you make a commitment to, they can do that sales volume that also makes a commitment to you. You now go down to 19 or 18, or 17, so on and so forth. If you boil the math down that way, first of all, I don't call on a customer that can't spend, on average, $20,000 a month. I just, I got big goals, you know, and so that, and that's exactly how I think of finding, like, just really big success, is finding that early win, that first, you know, relationship, or that first customer that helps you get over that thought, that, man, this is insurmountable. And I honestly Mark, I live my life that way, those small, early wins, that that one customer, that one relationship, can change, it can actually change the

Mark D. Williams 21:08
game well, and you can we used to have this thing, so I don't know if I told you this. So back, I was 23 years old. I just graduated college, and I was in sales for one year, selling copiers. And I loved it. It was awesome before I started my homecom company, and that's a whole nother podcast. But anyway, long story short, I had a sales trainer, Lenny. Can't remember his last name, Lenny. He was, he looked at, yeah, crew cut. He looked like he belonged to the military. I mean, he was, but he was a good sales, sales trainer. Anyway, he told us reduced to the ridiculous. And so the idea was, is like, you know, the numbers are gonna be wrong, but that you'll get the overarching theme was like, let's say you sell a three year lease to a company, and let's just say the unit is like a $10,000 you know, color copier, blah, blah, blah. And you would rather than saying, like, hey, this a $10,000 copier first. The first thing you could do is, most of the leases run a 36 year lease, so obviously now it's like 100 bucks a month, or whatever it is. But then you reduce it even more. You can reduce it. You can reduce it to the page per cost or per day. So my, my kind of reduce the ridiculous was like, Hey, Mike, you know, I know this copier is going to transform your business, and I know for you, it's a capital investment. But how would you feel about for $1 a day, you could have this XYZ machine? I mean, $1 a day. Who can't afford $1 a day? I mean, you could, that's nine, that's 1/9 of a cup of coffee at Starbucks. And so anyway, the point of it was is, I've often thought about that I don't actually do that well enough in high end construction, because I don't usually, you know, let's say you've been doing a $5 million house, you know, to reduce it. I mean, it's probably not the worst idea in the world, and it really works good. I think when it turns financing, 30 year mortgages, all those kinds of concepts, but you to go one step further back to the little you know, atomic habits was one of my favorite books years ago. And again, it's habit stacking. So it could be a phone call, you know this. Let's go back to your analogy of this person that has to find 20 clients you can make. You can always control. You can only control what you can control. Honestly, he can't control those 20 clients, but what he can control is he can call 60. He can call 100 like, whatever the number is to get to 20, you know, however many appointments. I mean, the only thing he can control is a call or an email and a meeting. So, I mean, I know every salesperson the world can do this, but like, essentially, you work it backwards. How many calls? And if you're an amazing closer, you don't have to make as many calls, but at but some point, even if you're a bad closer, you just need more volume. Yeah, that's right. Just need to you. Just need you.

Mike Weaver 23:32
Just, I believe that I am a terrible salesperson. I do. I'm a great friend. I'm a great comrade. I build trust and rapport quickly, because I love people and try to be always very honest, but I don't think I really know how to sell what I try to the second thing I teach this guy, out of these 20 clients is those 20 that you meet, that first one probably knows a few more people that you should know that could be your 20. And this, this person that we're going to meet today at 1030 Central Time, is a pool builder. Is a very popular pool builder in the market. Also, I met him from a builder that I work with exclusively in the Metroplex. And he does work with about seven custom home builders, and he does their pools. And so I'm gonna kill two birds with one stone with Mr. Garrett, my new hire. We're gonna help him find one of his accounts that's going to do $20,000 a month. That's his pool and outdoor account. And then we are going to leverage my relationship with this pool builder and help him build the relationship so that this pool builder introduces him to the six other builders that we don't work with today, and he will now have seven accounts with that one first easy win. I guarantee it.

Mark D. Williams 24:42
I mean, I think you're the best. I mean, you know that. And when we have you on for your solo episode, like I still think you use it because it's the most effective. And honestly, I can't think of anything more effective. I've heard you talk about the contractor coalition Summit, because you're been a longtime sponsor there. I've heard you talk about it builder trend stage at IBS, when I was up there with you. Honestly, I don't know if I've ever been at a which I don't I'm not telling you to change, because every time I hear it, it's kind of like you kind of want to I mean, I can't think of another example, because yesterday was Sunday, but it's like church, like, when I go to church, I want to hear about Jesus, like I've heard about Jesus my entire life, for 45 years, but like, I'm not going to church to hear about something else. Like, I'm going to church to hear about Jesus, where I'm saying this is like, yes, it's predictable what you're going to say. But like, it's very foundational to, like, your business message, which, you know, we're separate from the Church here, and it's but this leveraging of partnerships, and you go into this whole speech about how leveraging each other's partnerships, leverage is not a different a bad word. It's a positive word. It's really, it's basically, I like to use the word force multiplier, you know, it's a way to exponential extra growth, and that is the number one way. And and there's a builder here locally. Shout out to to Nate, and he's in the curious builder collectives here in Minnesota, and you're gonna love this. I don't know if I told this story and then we'll end it, but he said that he asks for six referrals before he has a signed contract. And I was like, what? And I was like, I mean, I'm optimistic, I'm pretty good, but like, this guy is, like, a whole nother

Mike Weaver 26:07
people, where people make the mistake. Mark is people don't ask. It's 100% people, I think more people will give it to you. I mean, most people be like, Sure, why not? But people don't ask.

Mark D. Williams 26:19
But so here's the thing. He also most of us, even if we do ask, which most of us don't, if we do ask, we ask at the end. And he and his point was, is he has a 15 minute phone call and a 15 minute phone call, and I know this, and I still don't do it. I don't know why I need to do change it. And he goes, so let's say, Hey Mike, great to meet you. Regardless of the outcome of that conversation, at some point he'll say, Hey, do you know anyone else that would benefit from this 15 minute phone call like this? What like we're having? Boom, that's one opportunity. Then they have their one hour meeting, and after their one hour meeting, he says, hey, you know we've had our one hour meeting and our 15 minute phone call. Do you know anyone else that would benefit from a one hour meeting like we're having another chance for a referral? And on and on, the process goes, and I'm just like, tip it in my hat like you are next level, man.

Mike Weaver 27:03
We have to, we have to end but I have to tell you, there's this really famous designer in Colorado that I met from Tim at all DB construction, who I absolutely love. And she is, like, super, super big time. And I, of course, am terribly presumptuous and always ask for probably more than I deserve. And I'm on this call with her going through what I believe is unbelievable sales pitch, and I'm really just expressing a value proposition, right, which is kind of all I do. And she tells me, she's like, well, listen, is there anything else that you know we're just about to the end? Is there anything else you want to talk about? And I said, Well, my, my, here's my only question. I have a rule. When I garner a new customer, I have an expectation. My expectation is that you introduce me to everyone you know that could have, that could find value in what I offer. And my commitment is that I will do the exact same thing. We hang up the phone and she sends two emails to she sends two introductory emails, one to a builder in Miami, Florida, and one to a builder in Montana, introducing me to them and recommending that we get on a call. And it, all I could think about was the worst thing that could happen is she could say no, but if you don't ask, very similar to your guy that's asking for that referral, the worst thing you can do is say no, but if you don't ask, they'll never say, Yes, I love that. Yeah, this is incredible. Wow.

Mark D. Williams 28:26
I know you should come on the podcast more often. All right. Well, you and I could chat for days. Poor audience. Thanks for coming on the cruise builder podcast. Every Thursdays are 20 minute segments, or in this case, 27 and every Monday, our one hour interviews with builders, architects, designers and owners around the country. Until next time, we've had the podcast now for two and a half years, coming up on three, and I get questions all the time through DMS, on Instagram, emails as well as to our account. Maybe we've had a guest on where a question has come up that really triggers an idea for you. If you didn't know, we have a one to one consulting session through the curious builder platform on our website, curious builder.com or curious builder podcast.com you can click on the one to one and schedule one hour of my time, and we will simply just sit down have a virtual call, and we'll talk about any business idea that you want, marketing, branding, operations, really, anything that helps you and helps your business. Maybe it's a guest that you want an introduction to. Maybe it's a guest we've had on and they brought up something about scaling or hiring and firing or anything that might resonate with you as a business owner, that you want to expand and talk on. We'd be happy to do it. If you're interested in that, please reach out to us at the curious builder podcast.com. Thanks for tuning in the curious builder podcast. If you like this episode, do us a favor. Share it with three other business owners. The best way that we can spread what we're doing is by word of mouth, and with your help, we can continue to help other curious builders expand their business. Please share it with your friends. Like and review online, and thanks again for tuning in.