Q & A Episode 68 - Thursday Therapy: Vulnerability, Grief, & Surviving the Rollercoaster of Entrepreneurship

Nov 19

Episode #68 | Q&A with Mark D. Williams | Vulnerability, Grief, & Surviving the Rollercoaster of Entrepreneurship

In this heartfelt episode of The Curious Builder, Mark Williams and Morgan Molitor dive into the emotional rollercoaster of entrepreneurship and building, highlighting the importance of community, mental health, and real connection in the industry. They share personal stories about the challenges and joys of running a business, emphasize the value of vulnerability, and discuss how vital it is to support one another—especially during tough times. Listeners walk away reminded that while the journey can be incredibly hard, no one truly has to go it alone.

About The Curious Builder

The host of the Curious Builder Posdast is Mark D. Williams, the founder of Mark D. Williams Custom Homes Inc. They are an award-winning Twin Cities-based home builder, creating quality custom homes and remodels — one-of-a-kind dream homes of all styles and scopes. Whether you’re looking to reimagine your current space or start fresh with a new construction, we build homes that reflect how you live your everyday life.

Support the Show:

Mark D. Williams 00:00
We're excited to announce that we're bringing back sauna camp 2.0 on March 20, from two to 8pm we had this last year. We had 42 owners. This year, we're maxing out the capacity of the camp, which is going to be 60 people. We're going to have a wellness panel with some Everest summiters, as well as some iron men and women to compete, and all about wellness and how they prioritize their health and wellness, not only in training, but in their lifestyles and in their business. And then we're gonna have a two hour window of sauna and cold plunging in the lake, and then an amazing wood fired grill, Mediterranean style food at the end of that. So if you're interested, please head to cures builder.com under retreats, you'll find everything there is about sauna camp on March 20 in Minnesota. You I think sometimes when they don't, people don't understand. Someone might say, Oh, why do you talk so much about yourself? Or, why do you have a podcast? Or, yeah, they're sort of missing the whole point, right? The whole point is just you know you and I feel very comfortable sharing our thoughts and feelings to whoever's listening. And right, if our story or the stories we share help somebody else, most of them, we don't even know who's being helped.

Mark D. Williams 01:13
Welcome to the curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today we have a four time repeat guest of the month. Morgan Mahler construction to style and contractor, coalition, summit OG, hey, morgues, Hello. How's it going? Oh, it's going great. Anytime you and I get the time together. We just spent five days together in Chicago. I know that was a ball, but we Yeah, you have the record by a long shot. I think you're two up on podcast? Probably Brad Levitt, yeah, I think Brad probably, I think he's been on three you've been on four above, Brad. Maybe he's only two actually. Oh, please. He might be taller. You're way bigger profile. Oh my gosh, whatever. So we're on a Thursday episode. This isn't our Monday and we have our losers are winners series, which we'll keep going. And I think I'm gonna for, I know, for the contractor coalition, we're gonna have a podcast once a month called therapy Thursday. So this is gonna be our Bellwether episode on on this you and I were chatting just of how emotional the contractor coalition was. Yeah, people we met some of the conversations, and actually, a year and a half ago was last time you were on. We talked about mental health. Last time I was on, I think was in January of to go back. But oddly enough, the topic is still the same, and I don't probably been worse. Oh, it's way worse. I just wanted to get on and chat a little bit about your thoughts, my thoughts, and really just let people know, in general, like, entrepreneurship, building, it's really hard,

Morgan Molitor 02:45
really hard. Yeah, now that I think about it too. So we've been home one day. Well, we're on our second day, and I'm seeing you, so we're just, like, digesting and sharing and But yesterday, we were texting each other just being like, we're still processing, like, all the conversations, all the, yeah, yeah, the deepness of it. And it was so weird. I was telling our team in the office yesterday, just all the highs and lows, like extreme moving into yesterday too. And then we heard additional news of some of our wonderful contractor coalition attendee, actually. And just like, wow, just the roller coaster of, yeah, what we're doing is, yeah,

Mark D. Williams 03:21
there's a death, yeah, Ron Jensen, out in Utah, passed away on Friday, on Friday, while we're at the contractor college. I didn't, we didn't find out about it till yesterday. Was it Tuesday? Yeah, I called Nathan Marsala, asked him if you knew about it, and called a few other people out in Utah. No one really knew much about it. We sent some flowers, and obviously, yep, it seems like flowers seem like such a Yeah. Do not empty, not hollow. It's, I mean, you just hardly know what to do in a time of of grief. And didn't know him super well, but it had interacted with him a number of times at contractor coalition. I had actually interviewed with him to try to get him into my builder 20 group a couple of years ago, yeah, and we had, also, there was a conflict, just because he was close to Nathan, actually, in Utah, so that didn't really work out. But, you know, he'd show up at all the Monday the builder meetup site at IBS,

Morgan Molitor 04:14
yeah, always he was in Minneapolis, and just takes me back to the discussions, you know, I personally had with him and a lot of other people, and it's just like he was going through the same hardships, heaviness like that the rest of us were, and it just really made me think differently about what we're doing in these rooms at contractor coalition, and how much it matters. Because I just remember him leaving Minneapolis too and being like, I'm so glad I came here, and now I'm just like, Oh my gosh. And he's like, You have no idea, like, the level of impact and difference and some of these things that I really need, like, right now to go home to and implement. And it's just like, now it's taking me back to stories at contractor coalition, just here in Chicago, and the stories I heard that people were vulnerable and shared. Right? And, you know, I didn't realize one example was with someone who showed up in Minneapolis, and I had no idea what he was going through in Minneapolis, and he took home and implemented some of these things, and now showed up in Chicago and said just how much that impacted and what he was going through. He was going through a legal battle and all these things. And I was like, I had no idea he was carrying all of that in the room that day, you know, and now the difference that he was able to implement within just a couple of days of leaving Minneapolis, that has now, like, got him back on his feet in more ways than one, and was able to show up in Chicago and share that. And I'm like, how many people are seeing the room going through a lot even heavier things that aren't speaking up or sharing things, because it's really hard, especially for men.

Mark D. Williams 05:43
I think one of the things that you and I agree on, and one of the things that I've really enjoyed for the last couple of years having the podcast is, you know, and well, it's a podcast about entrepreneurship. It's really a podcast about people and connection and being authentic and being real. The interviews that I enjoy the most, enjoys maybe the wrong word, the one that the ones that I get the most satisfaction are the ones where people go the deepest. A couple come to mind. One was where Laura from TAs and CO, you know, shared, you know, kind of imposter syndrome, and she shared just how she didn't really, you know, believe in her own self worth. And, like a lot of people, confidence is the thing that they often struggle with, where their places. And I remember asking Doug Duvall, who's our producer on many podcasts. He used to produce the show as well, and he's a good friend of ours at contractor coalition podcast. And just all the videography i i had asked him, you know, he's been at seven out of the eight contractor coalition summits. And I asked him, was there a thread through all of them? And he said, bar none, confidence. Confidence was the single thread that he saw people, how they came and how they left, yeah, and confidence was his, his response. And you see people that story you just shared you and I know some of the details that you know, we don't need to necessarily share all the details, but just that, when people realize that being an entrepreneur, they're not alone. The struggles, the client, self worth, you know, the financial struggles, emotional struggles, right, all the things. And there's a lot of joy too. I mean, we're focusing on the negative things, but there's a lot of joy too, but the camaraderie of being able to share it. And I think what you were alluding to is that, you know, building is a male dominated industry, right? You know, we would both love to see more women it. And I think women like yourself and, you know, like our friend Danielle and Katie cat. I mean, we have so many friends that are in it, that we love, and they just do so well, like my daughter, I hope, I hope may has an interest in it, she would just crush Yeah, and, oh boy, the world wait till she comes along. But anyway, just just avenue to share, yeah, and to realize that this is really hard,

Morgan Molitor 07:47
right, and that you're not alone, and that Yeah, and it's, I think, too, like in society so much, and we talked about this on another podcast. But it's like, you know, leaning into things. And sometimes we're, we're told, or what have you, is like, if you don't follow through to the end, you lost, or you quit or you gave up, and it's like, especially when you're an entrepreneur, it's like those things you know, you don't want to be titled as that. And so sharing some of these really vulnerable moments and times, like, in a sense that can be like, you've gave up or you quit, or you couldn't figure it out, or you can win at that certain situation. And so just that's really hard for people in general, but I think specifically for men too, because they don't want to be put in that category or that box

Mark D. Williams 08:31
what, or they don't even know they can share right? You know, they're not even aware of who to share it with, right? You know that, yeah, the bond of friendship and camaraderie that exists. You know, whoever your people are, I think I've often described myself now as, like, kind of like a coach, and I use the analogy of running, but like, I don't care if someone can run a 430 minute mile or a 40 minute mile, like, you just want your community. You want to cheer your mom. I feel like regardless of where somebody comes to the contractor coalition, whether they're doing $100,000 a year in revenue, or $50 million revenue. Like, I just want them to be the best versions of themselves when they go forward. Same for us. I mean, you know, look at all far our respective not careers, but like, that's personal growth, right? I think your personal growth is tied to your company growth, 100% yes, and not. And not and I mentioned this before, I don't think not all the time. I should be clear, because, like, I think what happens one of the issues that you have sometimes is, if your person, your personal identity, is so wrapped up in your business, and your business fails, then I think it's a problem, because then you think you are a failure. That's not true. I think those are independent things right now, it's kind of like, if one is good, both can be good, right? If one is bad, you can still be good, right? And like, I think that's important for people to remember, right?

Morgan Molitor 09:46
Yeah, that is, and I can't remember if it was you or someone else. What we were just talking about, like, actually, it was Katie Cath. And yeah, you were at that dinner happy hour conversation too. But just all she wants is. For her kids to, like, be filled with joy, like it doesn't even matter now that they're older. Like that is the end goal. Like, no matter what it is you put your mind to, but like, you can't teach that, like you have to fill your own cup with joy. And so I've just been thinking about that too, when it comes to my kids or my family or my team, and it's like I can do my best to put people on my team and the positions that truly light them up. And I feel like that's something I've preached for a long time, is like, I don't want my team to be doing things that is just like, life soul sucking is what I always say. I'm like, I just want them to be happy, and I'm trying to help, like, guide that and curate that. But then, yeah, it's just made me think more about like myself and what I'm doing every day, and what just depletes me and what lights me up. And then I think about clients of ours and what, you know, I just want them to be excited about these projects that we're doing and and we only get to choose so many projects a year. That's also what's been going through my mind. So I'm like the projects that we get to work on. I want those to be like, just filled with joy for everybody. You know, I'd always preach, like, your home, like, we want to build something for our clients where it sparks joy. But I was like, throughout the process, it's just like, I because it's gonna be hard, it's gonna suck many times, you know, and it's gonna but you just gotta be in alignment and partnership. But like, just want everyone to be happy. It sounds like such a simple thing, but actually it's really hard

Mark D. Williams 11:31
when it comes to quality, craftsmanship and performance. Pella sets the standard whether you're building custom homes or designing a timeless space. Pella offers innovative window and door solutions that blend beauty and efficiency with showrooms and experts around the country probably makes it easy to find the perfect fit for your next project and their team to support it. Build with confidence, build with Pella. Visit pella.com to explore products and connect with your local rep. Today. For more information, you can listen to episode one or listen to episode 109 where we bring on Pella owners and founders at Pella Northland, as well as their innovative team behind the steadystate innovation. I was really excited for me to be able to give that little half hour talk the bonders create freedom, yeah, and the number of people that came up after and throughout the next couple days that just said, Thank you for for sharing. I won't go into all that, all of it right now, but what was reminding me of is, you know, time management. You're just talking about your kids. And one of the things that I shared it was, you know, why? You know, we're always busy. There always something to do. And I'd heard recently, someone was lamenting the fact that they couldn't sell their business to their kids. Their kids didn't want it. And there's a whole generation of children that don't want their parents business. And the person that was sharing the story said, Well, is it any wonder why? And all they saw from you as a business owner was how hard you worked when you were at their sporting events, you were on your computer, or you didn't, or maybe you didn't even make it to their events, or all these different things. And so why a child's connotation with your business is a negative one, not a positive one, the way this person was illustrating and reminded me that, you know, I can make excuses better. I can really make good excuses. Yeah. And so it's like, let's say I'm at May's gymnastic practice, and I'm like, I got to cut up on emails, like, May has gymnastics from seven to eight. So in the past, I would always, whenever I go, I'd say, next time I'm not going to bring my computer, but I always bring my computer, and I get as many emails as I can get done, but tonight, I'm not even going to bring my computer, because I feel just kind of convicted in my heart, like I just need to be present. Like she's nine, there's just a handful of years. Yeah, she's gone and like, will I remember the emails I send on? No, well, remember her little back tuck flipper, her laughing with her friends or whatever, and I can just be present. And if nothing else, like every kid wants their parent to watch me, watch me, watch me, watch I can do that. Yeah, it's And so anyway, and again, there's no judgment there. Like everyone has to do their own thing, but Right? I think by sharing the story, it's just kind of like, kind of like, lay the hammer down the Forge will be there tomorrow

Morgan Molitor 14:06
morning, right? Oh my gosh. And you know, what's interesting about that too, is so yesterday, getting the kids up, ready, out the door, and usually one of us, we kind of divide and conquer, and the other one's already working, but, and we work for from home for the most part, but Ellie always tries to get ready with me, and she's five and she's basically 15, but, you know, she put on some of my little lipstick, or a little lip gloss or whatever, and just did her hair like me, put it in like a high bun pony, and just had a cute off it on, and she went downstairs, and I didn't know what she was doing, but she came back upstairs and she's like Mom, Dad saw me, and he didn't even tell me I'm pretty. And I was kind of like, what? And he's like, and then she was like, He's downstairs. And I went downstairs, I walked around the corner, and he looked because I go, did he see you? And he's like, Yeah. He looked right at me and didn't even tell me I was pretty. And then I was like, kind of thinking, like, well, that's weird. And then she was like, he was on the phone. And also interesting is he was on the phone with a client we actually ended up letting go yesterday, and yeah, and so I'm just like, how crazy. And I just, like, had a moment, and I thought of what you said about just watching your kids with you know. But I was like, that was so important to her, like, for her dad to say she's pretty. And so he got off the phone. I was like, Jamie Elliot said, you walked over, you know? And he was like, Oh my gosh, Ellie, you're so pretty. And went on and on, but yeah, I just sat there, and I'm like, Okay, this specific client has been, you know, and we had a couple of weeks where we're like, Well, what's happening? Have done a ton of pre con construction work that obviously they can't fully see and just, we're told a few words to, you know, we talked about this on the other podcast, actually, or episode at contractor coalition, but it's like, this client specifically, yeah, called Jamie incompetent five times on the phone. And, like, then I have this moment to where I'm like, Okay, now you're on the phone again, you know, with internal team, just trying to figure out, like, Okay, what should we do? Numbers? Topher had already been out there that morning with another subcontractor, you know, and we're just trying to get these numbers in line. And anyway, I just had a moment of clarity where I was like, Okay, this Yeah. Like, what? What's happening here? Like, we already know doesn't feel good. And so, yeah, just like that. It's like,

Mark D. Williams 16:20
All right, so you fired him. You returned your deposit. You were telling me about it. How did, how did they take it? What'd they

Morgan Molitor 16:25
say? They basically said, Perfect, great. I don't think we were in alignment, either, and it was great. I was like, couldn't have been a better end Ian, but unfortunately, it's like, wow, to not see or know, like, there's no thank you. You know this or that. Obviously there's two sides to every story. But it's just like we've been hustling behind the scenes. You know, contract with sign deposit was made, but like, now refiguring out how to get in alignment with some of the things that they wanted to have incorporated to fit within their budget. So we were trying to get creative, and we're cutting our own costs, like we had totally waived our design fee, which, hello, red flag. But again, we just wanted to, like, get this moving, like a lot of us do. And that was something at contractor coalition, I was reminded, like, we're, we're feeling this pressure to get it moving. You know, we had some stats and stuff that all of you guys, and Brad and Nick had pulled up, and it's just like, okay, and everyone wants to get it cruising, right? Because it's like, the more you wait on things, the more money that's going out the window. But there's just these, these things that we need to get down in pricing. And without contractor coalition, honestly, I think we would have, like, kept on moving, and we'd have been bullied the whole time and treated like crap. And at contractor coalition, someone said to me, they're like, think about this. We're coming in the holidays like, this is going to be your Thanksgiving, your Christmas, and how are you going to remember it? And that hit me hard, because I was like, we are going to be so stressed. Jamie is going to have to probably not go with us to my hometown of rose over Thanksgiving, because he's going to have to work, which happens all the time. And I was like, wow, because I can remember every single one of my kids births, and I can name the client, I can see their face like I had C sections for all my kids, and every single one of them day three, the day got out of the hospital, I was figuring out problems. One, I was at a client job site trying to

Mark D. Williams 18:12
you were at a client job site three days after delivering a baby. Oh, boy.

Morgan Molitor 18:16
And like all that, I can pinpoint, right? And I'm like, it's like, wow. What? Like, that's wild.

Mark D. Williams 18:25
I mean, the only way to top that is be like, I had a baby on the job, they

Morgan Molitor 18:28
care, yeah, oh yeah, but yeah, even looking back and like, they didn't care, like, that didn't even help anything anyway. How hilarious is that?

Mark D. Williams 18:34
I think some Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, wow. There's a lot to unpack there. That's pretty wild, you know, we, you know, shout out to Jackson shorts. I brought this up a number of times. He was the first live podcast I ever did. You ever did? Were you at that one? And that was still stands out as one of my favorite man. It was the first time. It was year one. I think it was only six months into the podcasting, and it was my first live event. I had this idea of just like, putting on. No one had done it before in our market, so I'm like, I'm just gonna do it. And it was just so fulfilling for me. I was still a highlight. And, yeah, such an interesting person. But he said something that has had a huge impact on my well, on me, on my business, and the people that work with me. And he stared, so we've always obviously shut down the week of Christmas, but he took it one step further. We actually shut he said he shuts down for two weeks. And this was in, I think when I interviewed him, was like June. And so I made the decision right then and there. I blocked it off on the calendar the next day that we now since then. So it's been three years that we always take off two weeks over Christmas. Now you have, we tell our, you know, our clients, ahead of time. But in from my it was two reasons. One is, you know, recharging. Let people get some downtime, space to think, but also, like everyone expects, the week of but the week, really, between Christmas and New Year's, not much stuff gets done anyway, because you're emailing people out of office, out of office. It's just very Herky jerky. Want to all be better, just to just take it off, right? Reset. I. And refocus on the new year. So we made that decision, but we took he took it one step further. He said that every six months, meaning that July 4, he also gives us to people a week off. And I was like, that was really inspiring. So I couldn't do it then, because it was in June. It was only a couple weeks, but I went to the following year and block off, blocked off the week. So we have the week of July, 4 off every year, and two weeks around Christmas, okay? And you know, sure, as owners, do you do? We sometimes slip in and take care of stuff, sure, but we do have the auto you know, we let our people know. And, like, does a project manager maybe have to do a few emails just to make sure if there's, if you're an active job, and there are other, I don't want to be disrespectful, like, if cabinet shop is working and choosing. They choose to work as a subcontractor, like they all. They can do what they want, as long as we let them know ahead of time. Yeah, but I

Morgan Molitor 20:49
don't know this. That's amazing, and it does that too. And

Mark D. Williams 20:52
Nick good. I'm a little surprised, actually. Yeah, he's done that for a

Morgan Molitor 20:56
while. Yeah, July and Christmas. Yeah, I still haven't done it. I probably should,

Mark D. Williams 21:00
you know, it's I took it one step further for myself, because last Christmas, we stayed home as a family, and we ended up traveling later. And what I what I found, is I was able to work on the business, yes, versus working in the business, and I've talked about that a lot in the podcast, like, currently I have a job, I don't have a business, yeah? Which is kind of sobering, right? Like, if I leave my company doesn't work, right? Which is kind of a real bummer. And so I need to sort of figure that out. I need to listen to my own podcast. No, do they listen? Oh no, I don't think so. No, they know that. Oh, okay, yeah. I mean, I mean, they can operate for a couple months, yeah? But like, obviously, I incorporate all the sales, all the relationships the client, you know, but they're in since I've hired Angie, she's like a unicorn. She's amazing. So that's been a huge step. Eventually I'll have to replace myself if I want this to exist without me, which would be great love to replace myself, yeah. But where I was going with this clumsily is, oh, that time to sort of reset. So I I got so much done, I sort of reset my calendar, my time blocks, and now once a quarter I have, I don't take any meetings once courts are recurring, like, weekly block, okay? And then I just reset all my calendar blocks. So, like, I block a lot of my time, yeah. But then I find that after a while, I've put too many things in, and I'm just deleting them, and they're not being effective. So I feel like I have to, sort of, like, of like clean the cupboards and reset the deck. I love it, yes, yeah. Anyway, trying to get mental headspace again. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, it's constant. What did you you know, we were talking a little bit ahead of time about just the need for there were so many amazing conversations that we had specifically around mental health and emotional stress of owning a business. What were some of the conversations that you had this last weekend in Chicago that sort of hit you hard?

Morgan Molitor 22:51
Oh my gosh, there's so many. And it's hard too to talk about this, because it's like, I don't necessarily want to tell someone else's story, but it's like, I just think the common denominator. It doesn't matter how big you are or how small you are. Like, we have the Brad Levitt of the world, and we have the construction styles of the world, you know. And it's like, it doesn't matter. We all carry the same burdens, whether it's emotionally or financially, it's and it's a lot. And just hearing that like, we're going there to work on our business and figure things out, and we can talk through processes and how to scale and how to brand something, and how do social media, and how do AI and how to do all these things right. And like, we can figure that out. But the one thing that like we can't figure out is this, like, carrying that emotional burden or wait, which can also be financially with clients, right? But it's that constant, those are two things. And it's like, I don't know if that's something that you can figure out without. Like I said earlier, I was like, it makes me mad, you know? And especially then hearing about Ron, it's just like, and then going back in my mind and thinking about other people in my life who have committed suicide and like, and if this can be any industry, right? And I'm just like, it makes me so mad, because I'm just like, Wake Up World. Like, what are we doing? Like, why are we like, we're not even taking each other out. We're taking ourselves out because that's how sad we are. So I'm just like, why are we treating other people the way we're potentially treating them. I don't care if it's a homeowner and you're talking to your contractor like that. I don't care if it's a contractor and you're talking to you know, your subcontractor, or if you're some person driving on the street and you're getting mad at someone else driving on the street, I'm just like, Everyone calm down and slow down and like, be nice.

Mark D. Williams 24:42
I Ian, this episode is brought to you by adaptive. If you're still chasing checks and juggling spreadsheets, it's time to upgrade. Adaptive is revolutionizing how builders get paid with AI powered bill pay, automated draws one click payments and built in Lean waivers faster. Payments, fewer headaches and total visibility. Adaptive takes care of the back end chaos, so you can focus on what you do best, building. We've used adaptive for two and a half years, and trust them to keep our projects moving and payments flowing. Learn more at Adaptive dot build and simplify the Pay Process today. For more information, you can also listen to episode 10 and episode 15.

Morgan Molitor 25:23
As parents. You know, there's this movement going around, like, we got to get kids to stop bullying one another. And I'm like, Let's wake up and get adults to stop bullying one another. Like, are you kidding me? Like, kind of what you said with, how do I expect this if I'm not doing it? It's like, how do we expect this out of our schools and our kids and all this, if we're doing all that stuff to one another, like, how gross is that

Mark D. Williams 25:44
one what the outlet is? I mean, there's a there's an outlet of, obviously, there's a therapy aspect. You're just talking about it, you know, name it, to tame it, which I think kind of what we're talking doing right now, yeah, discussing it openly. You know, having, you know, you and I are very social creatures, so we do have a large network that we can talk to, but a lot of people don't Yeah. And I think I do think, not that I have a great experience of this, but I do think looking on that mental stability and the and having a network of people that support you and that you can talk to without judgment, yeah is highly crucial. Yes to mental health and to you feeling good, like, you know, I've talked a lot about just, let's say the ultra running group that I train with a lot of I'm spending four or five days a week with these people for hours at a time. I mean, they know everything about my life. Yeah, that ultimately is exercise therapy on the run, right, right? And so I just think it's really important, I feel for the people that can't tell if it's self selection, like they choose to be alone, or if they just don't choose to reach out. And I don't know if they're different or not. I

Morgan Molitor 26:44
also think there's this huge certain right, like whatever the generation was, but we were taught to keep it to ourselves, keep things inside, don't talk about it. And I'm like that to me. I mean, that ship sailed a long time ago with me, but I see so often that's still happening within people, within our life. And I'm like, Man, that'd be so hard to live a life like that. And so even that kind of stuff, just with the different generations, I'm like, Yeah, I just totally interrupted you and said,

Mark D. Williams 27:18
No, not at all. I mean, I think, anyway, I think just sharing. And I think, you know, one of the things that we've talked

Morgan Molitor 27:23
about, or understanding that too, like you're what you're saying, understanding that the generations are different, they're

Mark D. Williams 27:29
more open. You know, it's like a support against, not one of judgment. Sometimes, just listening. We heard a story from somebody, you know, that opening mic, or opening night mic, that's fun to say. You know, we had people share the most difficult business thing that they've shared or had in their career as a way to sort of break down the walls and and foster that, you know, that openness and some of the stories that were shared were super deep real quick. Yeah, it really set the tone for the whole weekend. And you know, the number of texts that we have gotten in conversations that we've had since then, just feeling listened and heard. I One gentleman had just talked about on the open mic that he was had there was a point in his career where he considered, you know, taking his own life, and he had a friend. He told me this later that called him every 15 minutes for two weeks, and he said that friend saved my life. Yeah. And that's pretty powerful, yeah, and so, you know, he had just expressed gratitude and thanks for this amazing weekend, and he was the one I shared it with a group. I talked about it last week on the podcast. I actually read his text, but basically it was just, you know, he had a difficult client, and you had given a talk about AI in the last day, and he's a very emotional person and a beautiful person. And emotion is good. I don't think emotion is bad. It's just bad. It's just how we direct. It, is it outward or inward, those types of things. And anyway, he used AI. He said it would take me about four or five days to write this letter to a client about creating boundaries and whatnot. And he said, with AI, did it in 12 minutes, and it was professional, not emotional, yeah. And I am not wrecked emotionally because of it, yeah. I just thought that would consume his mind for four days. And it was really, really, really powerful to hear that. I love it when people share how they're helped, why

Morgan Molitor 29:10
you put up a boundary and you did a whole presentation on the boundary. So it's like taking both of those and putting them together and taking action like, immediately. Yeah, it's crazy,

Mark D. Williams 29:19
yeah. I mean, I think we just people strive for community. I think it's always been that way. I don't think that's new. I mean, you see, like, you know, cliques or groups. I mean, honestly, they mean for gangs, right, right? Like, think about it, no. I mean, honestly, like, you know, I don't know that much about gangs, but like, it's a form of community, for sure. You know, where else do you go? And so, like, I think, as a society, what can we do to foster community, yeah? And if you don't, you might be drawn into one that isn't great, or you're alone, and then you have, it's very difficult when you're always alone.

Morgan Molitor 29:50
Yeah, I know so much,

Mark D. Williams 29:54
a lot going on. How you know, especially around the holidays, you know? I think, yeah. I know, I've read in the past that I think the highest, you know, highest rates of suicides specifically, are around the holidays. Oh my gosh, you're right. I kind of forgot about, yeah, we're doing an episode, so we met him. Shout out to Teddy seiple. I'm trying to get him on the podcast here before modern craftsman. It's a race. It's an arms race. His story. Have you heard a little bit of his story? You didn't hear straight. No, I have never he's gonna ask his wife if he can share it. Okay, yes, you're about to share it or, well, just high levels. I mean, for two and a half hours on Sunday night. Okay? He so Nick had Nick, and Nick had heard it the day before on Saturday, okay, but it took him two and a half hours to tell me the whole story. Okay? And I've never been this enthralled on a single

Morgan Molitor 30:42
Oh, wait, I heard this story. Yes,

Mark D. Williams 30:43
it was wild. Wild story. Wild front page of the Wall Street Journal. You know, you know, massive indictment took like, three years. Yeah. Anyway, I'm inviting him on to share his story.

Morgan Molitor 30:58
It's amazing. Also, I'd be like, what I think I said this to him. I'm like, I feel like Superman after that, like, Bring it on. I can get through anything in life.

Mark D. Williams 31:06
And the power in sharing those stories is So, you know, Nick, you know, has been talking about 45 white oak and the amount of stress he's under financially, and just tried to make sure this win and all those things. You know, it's a 12 and a half million dollar spec home in Boston. I've talked a lot about on the podcast, and he told me, after listening to this wild story of Teddy's, he said, what's 12 and a half million compared to 2.4 billion? Yeah. And he's like, you know, maybe I should shoot for a 20 million because it is somewhat relative. And I do, I do, think it's really powerful to share these stories. I think sometimes, when they don't, people don't understand, someone might say, Oh, why do you talk so much about yourself, or why do you have a podcast? Or, yeah, they're sort of missing the whole point. Right? The whole point is just you know, you and I feel very comfortable sharing our thoughts and feelings to whoever's listening. And right, if our story or the stories we share help somebody else, most of them, we don't even know who's being helped exactly, but if they are, isn't that worth doing? Yeah, 100%

Morgan Molitor 32:01
no doubt my mind, and people on our team, right? Yes, 100% Yeah. And then they don't need to listen, yeah? Oh my god. I know. I think of that too, because I'm like, you know, and I've shared on this podcast, going through some of our own things, personal and professionally, and yeah, just being around these people and hearing their stories. And I'm like, Oh my What was I crying about, like, Jeez Louise, because it's just, you know, not to make one better or less, but it's just like, also, I would never, like, that was a big conversation with my husband and I on our way home. It's just like, how did we get through anything before four years ago when we started contractor culture and have, like, fostered this community, because they are our best friends who understand. And one thing we were thinking about was like, when was the last time as an entrepreneur, builder, what have you? And actually brought Brad. Brad made Brad Robinson made me think about this, because I he came in, you know, and he was just checking in, and then we started chatting. And he was, he was talking about, he was just had a friend situation where she was like, it was like, it was amazing. It was a fun but I was told, you talk about work too much, and he's like, I was just so excited to be here with this group of friends. Because, like, we get it and we understand. And so what Jamie and I were talking about is like, when has someone outside of that circle told us, like, we're so proud of you, like, I see what you're doing and it is so cool. Instead, what we hear is, don't talk about work so much. Well, then why don't you just quit? You're so busy, like all these things that are not they don't understand which that's what I remind myself I'm like, but they're also not seeking to understand. That's what I love about you and our friendship. It's like, you know you're always leading with curiosity, or you're always seeking to understand. And so when Brad said that, then I just that led to Jamie and I on our way home. Like, who are the people in our lives that are outside of this community, that are constantly like, like, way to go? Or, you know, it's not that. It's typically like, my gosh, why are you doing another thing? Like, Oh, you don't have time for that, or no wonder, you know, and it's just, like, just made me think, like, Yep, I think I'm gonna start to just be a little bit quieter around that. Because it's like, this is what fills me. And I'm also like, how did we get to where we are with all these people? Because I don't even, I don't know, well, it's

Mark D. Williams 34:17
like, it's like, another chapter. It's another fuel source, yeah, you know, it's another elevation of your airplane. There's a great quote, what was it? Your attitude affects your altitude. And so just thinking about flying high, when your attitude about the group that you're with, it affects, you know, high can go. And I was just talking to a designer this morning for coffee, which is why I was late this morning to our meeting. And she was at the curated event out in Utah. Brad was there too, is by invite only, and she does incredibly high end work. And she's like, there's like, levels I wasn't even aware of, right? And she's like, you know, I anyway, I guess my point in bringing it up was more about your your altitude, yeah. And just like, sometimes you need to be kind of be, you know. You get used to your day to day, or you get used to I mean, Take me, for example. I've talked a lot about it three years ago. I'm like, why would a little builder in Minnesota be networking and associating with builders all over the country like I built in Minnesota, like, and that was even for someone as social as me, it was like a very narrow minded, very limiting it's like a horse with blinders on, right? And when you pick your head up and you look around, you're like, Oh, wow. Actually business where the whole, I mean, forget the United States, it could go worldwide. You can go anything you want, yeah? And so I think there really is no limit when there is a vision and there's openness and support, yeah, and validation. And so I, I think the reason why it because so many of us are entrepreneurs, sort of in silos, alone, right? The idea that we get to have a team, or a framework of a team, is so enthralling, yes, because it's not that fun being alone all the time. It's way more enjoyable. Yeah, actually, I mean that

Morgan Molitor 35:55
being said for sometimes we need to be like, put in a closet so we can get work done so or,

Mark D. Williams 35:59
like, when we're all five together and it's like, Wait, we're all used, like when we had our planning session that Friday morning, and all of us have, most of us are pretty in line with our vision and thoughts and what like that. But I've never been part of a team, or I'm if you're always sort of the captain of the ship, when you say something, whether it's a good idea or not, yeah, you just kind of do that to have five alphas all beside the same for yes, you're like, wait a minute. Okay, let's what are we doing? I think this, I mean, we've never really had a complete clashing. Everyone has sort of, I think, seen a common goal. And so I was gonna say it

Morgan Molitor 36:31
actually was really good. But we also needed, like, five days and not five hours. We need,

Mark D. Williams 36:36
like, a couple of days of just constant iteration. Yes, it's gonna be good. Well, I want to respect your time in the audiences. This is way longer than our normal 20 minutes, but I just wanted to talk about where we're at, and yeah, some of the conversations we're having, hopefully having me, you're welcome, see you later. Thanks for tuning in. The curious builder podcast. If you like this episode, do us a favor. Share it with three other business owners. The best way that we can spread what we're doing is by word of mouth, and with your help, we can continue to help other curious builders expand their business. Please share it with your friends. Like and review online, and thanks again for tuning in.