Episode 81 - Losers Are Winners: The Healthy House Checklist with Trapper Roderick
Episode #81 | Losers Are Winners | The Healthy House Checklist with Trapper Roderick
In this Losers Are Winners episode, Mark and Trapper Roderick dig into what’s changing fast in high-performance, wellness-forward homes. They connect the dots between building science and real-life health: cleaner air, better water, smarter ventilation, and materials that don’t make your body quietly revolt. They also get into the fun stuff—saunas, cold plunges, steam showers, and gyms with the best views in the house (because misery loves a basement…until it doesn’t). Come for the wellness trends, stay for the mechanical-room truth bombs and the accidental dad-joke chaos.
About The Curious Builder
The host of the Curious Builder Posdast is Mark D. Williams, the founder of Mark D. Williams Custom Homes Inc. They are an award-winning Twin Cities-based home builder, creating quality custom homes and remodels — one-of-a-kind dream homes of all styles and scopes. Whether you’re looking to reimagine your current space or start fresh with a new construction, we build homes that reflect how you live your everyday life.
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Trapper Roderick 00:00
My friend
Trapper Roderick 00:03
was like, Hey, if you come look at this house for me, I'm thinking of buying where's the first place I'm going to go? I'm going to go to the heart of the house, which is the mechanical room, right? Because that's going to tell me, really everything I need to know. Go to some utility rooms, and they're got nice epoxy or whatever on the floor, and it's all organized with beautiful looking pipes, like it's a fluke, so I think that that really is a good indicator of how healthy the stuff is that you can't see.
Mark D. Williams 00:34
Welcome to here's beer Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host, I got a returning guest. Trapper, Roderick out of Utah. Roderick builders, what's up? Trevor, how much? Man, how you been? Oh, you know, actually, really good. I just got back from Costa Rica boot camp. Speaking of wellness, we had a four day retreat, two a day workouts in the ocean, in the jungle, eating amazing food, bunch of owners. Maybe that's why I'm sick all the time in taxis and airplanes on the way back, I think got me, I tried not to watch your guys's videos because I had FOMO day one. It was good way. Do you see the videos coming out? Kaylee, our videographer, and Ryan combs from aft, that guy, it brought more drones than me and anybody that guy is set up. So he's got some pretty sick setup. So we got some good stuff coming. Yeah, I'm excited to see it. Well, I thought today, for Thursday's episode, we would just talk for 20 minutes about what we're seeing in the wellness industry. You're in Utah, I'm in Minnesota. We talked a little bit about this in Chicago when we were together this fall at contractor coalition, and it's all I seem to really want to talk about these days anyway. So just bringing people on that want to talk about it. What are you What have you done in the past, in your homes and in designs, and what have you seen sort of changing, not only in your spec home, but the way clients are engaging with you, specifically around wellness.
Trapper Roderick 01:53
I mean, I think day one, when a client starts to interact with us, they often ask about like, building science, which leads to wellness, because you start getting into the HVAC system, and HVAC system is your lungs of your house. And so we have pretty poor air quality in Utah, down in the valley, really good up in Park City area. So is
Mark D. Williams 02:14
that just because the inversion, because it gets trapped by the mountains? Or why? Yeah, it gets trapped.
Trapper Roderick 02:19
And I mean, even though we have such a small population, it just gets crazy trapped. Like, it's like 35 degrees down in the valley right now, and it's like 50 up in Park City, even though we're only 20 minutes apart, you know, and it's a higher elevation, but it's pretty trippy. So we really want to create, like, a good filtration system. So we kind of start with that, and then, you know, just we have so many minerals in the water, and so start, we kind of start with just like, the building science part of wellness, and that's like, at the really early stages. You know,
Mark D. Williams 02:48
what are you seeing in terms of finishes, in terms of, like, obviously, the sauna cold plunge have been really popular for last four or five years, and I'm not discounting them. But now it's like, I can't remember the last time I built without Asana, for sure, yeah, but what's what's next? What else are people talking about when it comes to wellness?
Trapper Roderick 03:07
Oh, you know, that's it's a great question. Infrared is another big part, right? You know, so like, Are you doing your sauna with infrared and normal heat, or you're just doing one or the other? Our gyms just seem to keep getting bigger and bigger, like, they become like a core part of the house, like our spec house in particular, instead of it just being this dark room that would have been a storage room that's now been turned into a gym. Now it's like one of the core features, and has some of the best views in the house, right? So it's really encompassing the indoor and outdoor
Mark D. Williams 03:36
that right there, I think is the biggest fundamental change that I've seen, and I think we're just at the beginning of it, and with our Misa, who's project my, like, give a lot of credit to my architect on that one, Carl, typically, you know, for the last 21 years, the exercise room. As much as I love exercise, and I love it probably more than the average person, it was always the basement bedroom that got actually, like, Oh, you're lucky enough to, like, get a few things down there. And maybe it had a lookout window, if you were lucky, but most likely it was, like, working out in a subterranean vault of concrete. And now to your point, yours is, you know, views. And basically it was Carl's like, where would you like to work out? I'm, like, overlooking the pool, like Ian the sun. He's like, exactly. He's like, why don't we make the pool house, the wellness studio, and you know, you can slide open the doors go right out into the saltwater pool when you're done. I'm like, Yeah, that sounds like exactly what I would want. And so now when I explain it to people, it seems way more logical. I think we're going to see a huge shift where that becomes a priority, not the afterthought.
Trapper Roderick 04:39
Yeah, I'm pretty excited about that's pretty much exactly what we did. And there's nobody really that has anything like that in this market, you know, like, there's a lot of big homes, but, like ours, was very intentional and kind of smaller to make sure that Jim and sauna, like, had views and felt like it was a part of the outside, separate from the house, rather than just having to be a part of the. House, you know, like we wanted to be completely separate and super special, and will probably be what sells the house.
Mark D. Williams 05:05
Yeah. I mean, I think people, I think the home oftentimes can be aspirational, like, what is the lifestyle that you want? And so I think that is usually a big part of it, like your health and your wellness and things like that. So I think having that being, especially if we sell it as a key part, not only as a difference maker, but something that attracts a client that wants to change something in their lifestyle. I'd be curious to know the people that buy the home if it's already a part of their lifestyle, or if it's aspirational, it's something they want to have it in their lifestyle. Because obviously there are plenty of people like, I built a house for a client that we did this amazing exercise room, and they've never used it their entire life. And it was kind of funny, because they never exercised. They're, like, in their mid 70s, and at the last minute, they threw in like, a 800 square foot glass box in the top of the house, which is, like, one of my favorite designs we've ever done. And then the homeowner was like, Well, I think I'd like my exercise room up there. And I was like, John, I didn't know you exercise. He goes, I don't, but I might one day. I'm like, Okay, I'll do what you want. I just thought it was sort
Trapper Roderick 06:04
of funny. Yeah, that's very funny. Yeah. I was actually curious. Have you ever done, like, circadian rhythm lighting, like the light that just throughout the day? Yeah.
Mark D. Williams 06:12
So those are here. There's a line called quetra. And so I would really like, they're like, $800 a can, though, so they're a little outside my budget at me. So we're doing DMF cans, which probably half the cost or even a little less, but they're still warm, dim and all that. But I just I didn't have in the budget. I really like the idea, and I've certainly pitched it to a few clients, but I have yet to add a client who said, Sign me up. But I've to everyone that I that I go to the lighting studio and show them, it's always the light that they want. It's just that none of them have been willing to spend the
Trapper Roderick 06:46
money for it. Yeah, kind of the same. But we, I mean, we're definitely integrating smart systems, which I do think plays into a healthier home, right? So I was thinking, like, you know, if I was to build this house my wife, like, how can I make her life easier, like, more stress free, you know, just, just like little things, because I think sometimes a smart home becomes bad for your health because it's just a stressful house, right? Like you're constantly checking your phone. And so I was like, just like the simplicity of, like, a raw three system, where the blinds and the shades go up every day at the same time, and they go down at the same time, and rather than having to run to every room and click a button or even manually, you know, just, I think that plays a lot, I think, into a healthy home as well these days. And I don't think a lot of people give it enough credit
Mark D. Williams 07:29
we're working with. I agree with you, for one thing, I also think we have to be i War a little bit with technology. Like, I certainly like technology and I like the adoption of it, but I'm also I see so much value and like less is more. And I think what you just said is maybe a combination of it, like it can automate, but then you don't necessarily see it. But, you know, I'm really interested. One of our AV guys has a EMF detector, and so when I'm done with Misa, who's we're gonna walk around the house. We didn't design this house to be EMF free or to be contained. So I'm really curious to see how strong it is or isn't. And turns out, unless you're very sensitive to it, like, obviously around, like a high voltage is the worst. So obviously, where your meter comes into the house, but they actually make a paint that you can put copper in the paint. We just look it into this, and it'll actually block it. So like, if you are in, I guess they've been using it in commercial construction now for a little while, that if you're, let's say downtown setting, or there's lots of high voltage or a lot of signals. Or if you have security, you want to prevent people from tapping into your Wi Fi, you can actually put copper into your paints and essentially acts like a block. Have you played? Have you played around with that
Trapper Roderick 08:35
at all? I haven't. There's a chance it could have happened, and I didn't know it, but I when I did that big wellness post, like, a month ago, that was probably the number one thing that was in the comments, or like, DMS, to me, was, how about like, a shut off? So, like, essentially all the power in this room, and electricity and EMF signals get turned off, other than the most important one. And I thought that was, like, that's a really interesting thing. Like, I've never even thought
Mark D. Williams 09:03
of it. A few weeks ago, I interviewed Kelly price from price architects, and she has the pot, or she has the platform, the non toxic architect, yeah, we talked in her episode about a kill switch or a dark switch that. And they, she said, I she hadn't actually executed it yet, but they were in design right now. Or, like, you go into your primary like, Why do you keep on all your power when you're sleeping? Like, you shut all that off. The problem is, is that if people have their clocks or something plugged in, how do you keep power to it? So that'd be something you'd have to figure out a way around. I really try for myself. I like, I keep my phone downstairs. I don't bring my phone up into my room, which actually your phone has way more EMF than almost anything else in your house. In fact, this little thing right here, yeah, I don't know what it does, but evidently it's supposed to. It's supposed to harmonize or consolidate the frequencies and EMF. And I saw it in the paper here, yes, I'm an old soul who reads the paper every day, but at the timber. Of stadium or arena for basketball, think of there's what, 30,000 fans at a game, something like that. And if you have 30,000 people with cell phones, think of how many EMF signals are in that arena. And so this company actually has these big like, I don't know what they're called Harmonizers. I don't know the technical term, but the idea is that they would harmonize all the frequency in the entire arena, because a lot of times you go to a stadium or you go to a big event and you don't necessarily feel great after maybe it's all the yelling, maybe it's because your team lost, or maybe it's the EMF frequency. Who knows? We'll see. And so actually reach out to them. I have a meeting set up with them to see if they want to be a partner on Misa, who's I have no idea what their stuff will do, but I thought, how cool would it be if I had a couple of these little copper whatever, and you can get them on your body. You can get them on your phone. And I don't know how much of it is, I'm just curious about the technology. I'll kind of go if it's something you can add after like, why wouldn't I put a few of them around the house? Sounds kind of
Trapper Roderick 10:52
cool, for sure. I agree. So you said on most your homes that you've done saunas, but how many are you doing cold plunge soon?
Mark D. Williams 11:00
So far zero me. So who's will be the first one? Did you do in ground? No, because ours is outside, so I have it above ground. It's a free standing one on the backside of the sauna,
Trapper Roderick 11:09
so it has a chiller and all that other stuff it does. Yeah, okay, cool. And I
Mark D. Williams 11:12
suspect, I mean, it's cold enough here. I'm not sure people will use the cold tub in the winter here, it's in a minus 20. So I think you just go stand outside for a while. I don't know if you need the water. I think you'll be just fine standing outside. I think you I would imagine most people would use the cold tub in, you know, in the summers and on the shoulder seasons, yeah. But I like the contrast therapy of cold and then, or, sorry, the sauna and then the cold back and forth, personally. And there's been, there's been some more recent studies that when you cold plunge, it was, like, kind of all the rage the last couple years, but now it seems like it's changing. So like, we have a cold plunge at our at the fitness club that I work out at, but if you're looking for muscle growth, you're not supposed to cold plunge after you work out. Supposed to be before, before, or just on an off day. So like, I'm a big runner, so it'd be fine if I did, like, a long run and then went and cold plunge, because you're reducing inflammation. But it's just becoming, as we become more and more interested in these things. It's, you know, it's still evolving and like, how we use it and how it helps us.
Trapper Roderick 12:07
So, yeah, I have really bad back pain, like, probably from a car accident years ago. But the days I cold plunge, I have a cold plunge in my house, the day, like, cold plunge, like, I feel like I'm a million bucks all day, until
Mark D. Williams 12:21
five o'clock. Five o'clock, well, then just pull one at your office. Just sit in your
Trapper Roderick 12:26
cold twice a day. Yeah, that'd be that'd be interesting.
Mark D. Williams 12:30
How out of curiosity on your saunas, how many of them are infrared versus traditional heat?
Trapper Roderick 12:35
We only do traditional I always talk people out of the infrared, and me too, I don't like them, not that I'm against it, like I understand it, but I just love the other like so
Mark D. Williams 12:43
much more. How many are electric and how much are what? How many are wood burning? Of those,
Trapper Roderick 12:48
we almost always do the electric with the rocks and all that other jazz to it. So there's a company. They're called new primitive. They're based out of Utah. They build all these modular saunas, and they ship them all around the country, like these cute little shed roof with some glass. We used to build all their product for them. So we built, like, like, three, 400 modular saunas. Oh, wow. So we kind of nailed it down. And that's why we do it in so many of our houses, because we just have it down to a science, roughly.
Mark D. Williams 13:16
Yeah, I actually tell me what you think of this. So for the last, I don't know, 15 years, I think tubs in the owner suite, unless you have a large, you know, huge luxury home where it's like, it's almost like people want the tub for the luxury of the look like the photo that they have has a tub in it. Practically speaking, most people that I design and build for never sets foot inside a tub ever in their owner suite. Do you agree with that statement?
Trapper Roderick 13:42
I do, and it was a big problem on one of the homes we're working on right now. And it just, it kind of always goes back to like, my wife uses the tub every day, right? And you have to have a tub in the house. And we've made all these other rooms in the house with no tubs. So it's like, well, you need at least a tub in a house, right? And so still ends up being always the primary but I agree, like it's kind of a waste. I'd rather have a big party shower.
Mark D. Williams 14:09
All right, so here's what, here's how I'm going with this. This is, I don't know. I've never been good at predicting markets, so this is probably sure to fail. Then I think that the next five to 10 years, I think we're going to see a huge resurgence in tubs, specifically soaking tubs, and here's why, in the world that we live in with technology and all the draws in our time, what is the most luxurious thing that you could afford or protect? It's your time, and it's it's distraction free. What takes more time than filling up those dumb tubs and keeping them hot for the whole time you're in it, or whatever temperature you're you want it to be. So like having a set thermostat, because you've all done it where you set it too hot, you get in there and you sweat buckets, then you want to get out. So it's like, I think the tub will be the new luxury. I think the tub will be the new Wellness thing, because sitting reading a book and just. Having, like, an hour of quiet time in a tub without a device, without a cell phone, which is a whole separate conversation. I think that we're going to see tubs coming back, because that is the ultimate luxury, that you have enough time in your schedule that you've been disciplined, enough time to create that time to spend it just soaking in water, because water is extremely therapeutic, like I was a swimmer in high school and college, and whenever I was hurt, running, playing basketball, whatever, I would always go in the water, and I would always rehab whatever sprain, whatever shoulder ailment I had way faster by swimming. I'd swim for a couple weeks, and whatever I was, whatever was hurt on my body, I felt better. I seriously believe in the power of like, hydraulic rehabilitation, if that's even the thing I'm just I
Trapper Roderick 15:43
can see that. I mean, I like, I said, my wife does it most nights, but like, the night she doesn't, like, she just craves it so bad. And like, if she's put the kids better, like, when we start a tub for you, right? I mean, so, like, it is a luxury tour, because for her, it is her escape. It's like, she's actually come talk to me. She's not talking to anybody. It's just her time, right? So I can see that, yeah, this
Mark D. Williams 16:10
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Trapper Roderick 17:18
Oh, man, that we haven't already talked about, I think one room in every house should have a steam shower. But, I mean, I just, I personally like it. I mean, I don't think there's I think sauna is probably way more, has way more benefits than a steam but I'm a big fan of steam showers. I think that's a big one, but ones that we haven't talked about. I mean, filtration of, like, your water and your minerals and RO systems. Ian, that's just a no brainer to me, like, hands down, like every house should have it.
Mark D. Williams 17:49
Yeah, we're working right now with Pentair. They're actually based in Minnesota, and they are the second largest filter company in the world. Actually, they do all the pool equipment as well. But they are launching at IBS here in two weeks, their new project called Naya N A IA, and actually, Brad Robinson has one. Brad Levitt has one. I have one as beta. We beta tested them for the last year. Cool, and they're going to be you'll see them in a couple weeks, when we're at IBS together. And they have so it does RO, it does carbon filter, it does your whole house filtration system, but then it re mineralizes The water automatically. All is one system. So it's all the water, not just certain parts. And somebody that I think was Brad Robinson, was saying that he has in his house, and he said, just like when he takes showers, he feels like his skin feels so much softer. You don't have any salt, so no salt bags anymore. I'm sure there's other things that it does that I'm unaware of. I'm gonna go do a factory tour in a couple weeks, just to get my eyes on it. But I agree with you, I think what we drink has long been underrated, just like what we breathe. I'm blown away at what our lungs can process. So the idea I had a client during covid that wore two and 95 masks because he said, if I get sick, I'm dead. He had some respiratory, you know, underlying, not illness, but he was very prone to anything respiratory in his lungs. And we put HEPA filters in, we put UV lights in the plenum, so we have that actually at Misa house as well, just, I think the UV lights kills like 99% of the bacteria in the air. And then the filters then extract, you know, whatever dust particles or whatever is in there. And someone, I had someone recently on the podcast, and I'm going to butcher the stat, but it's a crazy stat, something like, we spend like 80 some percent of our life indoors, which is just like, like that is so much more than I would have thought. I mean, I guess you sleep a third of your life, so maybe it's just sleepy, but,
Trapper Roderick 19:39
oh yeah, which gets you into, like, your HRVs and her and all that stuff, like bringing the fresh air into the house, right? And, like, making sure that you're filtering it, but you're also breathing fresh air. Because, I mean, there's a point where a house is too tight if you don't bring the fresh air in, you know? And I think that's a big mistake oftentimes in the building science world is making a house maybe too tight. You know?
Mark D. Williams 20:01
I mean, I think, I think that ship has sailed, right? I mean, by our code, you have to the hot the houses are super tight. So I think you obviously have your HRVs and your ERVs that have to equalize that to mean, I don't know what state, oh, Utah is so bad. I mean, oh, really, oh, my gosh, it's pathetic. Yeah, you mean bad in the fact that you have are bad that you don't,
Trapper Roderick 20:19
don't have to do, like, almost anything, really, yeah, so, like, if you even mentioned any of those things, and, like, what's that? Oh, wow. People don't know what it is.
Mark D. Williams 20:28
We've had it for, like, common we've had it for like, 20 years. It's like, I didn't even know that was a thing. I do know in part of it's our climate, right? I mean, the last two weeks here in January, it's been minus 20 for a good solid 10 days. And although, here's the Pro, right? It kills all the bugs. The Lyme disease dies. No poisonous snakes. Like there's a lot of benefits. People just go on vacation the two weeks it's really cold in Minnesota, and you'll be fine. But anyway, oh, I'd heard a really cool stat that Minnesota builds more homes at scale that are energy performing than any other state in the country, mainly because our mainly because our code is so robust because of our cold climate and anyway, I didn't even that's crazy that you don't have that as, like, even your baseline code.
Trapper Roderick 21:09
Yeah, so, like, I mean, I would the reason why I believe that, you know that's your guys's standards, because it's just hearing you and anyone else I've heard that builds out there, like your standard is what our upgrades are, and not saying that we don't go above and beyond in other areas, right? But, like, just our code is so lax, and they hand out contractors licenses like candy out here, because there's just not enough contractors, I guess, I don't know. And everyone in Utah has a contractor. But you know, waterproofing, like, like Tyvek is still, like, a pretty normal thing, and it's kind of pathetic.
Mark D. Williams 21:42
Wait a minute, they'll put Tyvek like on that you're on the concrete foundation as waterproofing,
Trapper Roderick 21:46
no, like, just like on your framing, like, that's, oh, that's all they use, right? Like, they don't. They're not using, like, zip shooting is like a major premium. Roll on is like a major premium. Or you're feeling
Mark D. Williams 22:00
in Minnesota, I would still say Tyvek or some sort of staple on WRB, is still probably, I mean, by percentages, has got to still be, by and large, the most. I mean, obviously at the higher end, it's not and so, but that's true of any market. I think any market that's dealing at the higher end, you know, you your clients, expect a certain level of, obviously, not only expertise, but level of craftsmanship. And a lot of it is up to us as the builders to convey that. I don't think I've ever had someone come through. You know, they're talking about maybe AV or the saunas or the cold plunges or the windows or cabinetry. But no one ever comes in and be like, oh, man, trapper, I heard you use really awesome two by sixes. I hear in the valley like you might be the best two by six. You know, procurement company I've met, like, they just, they trust you to make those decisions for them. And we, as builders, we kind of know what the other builders are. In fact, I just had a real estate agent come in, and we were, we were listing out the top 30 builders in Minnesota to see if his list was the same as my list. And his was pretty good. Actually, he was really, he nailed them, but he had just mentioned a certain builder. He's like, Oh, that builder really cuts corners. I'm like, Oh, really. What do you mean by that? He's like, Well, I see them using chip plywood all the time, versus, like, full plywood and, like, you know, these top end builders, like, they would never do that. I just thought it was interesting his point of view. He's not wrong. But I just thought his, his that's something you can actually see. But how many things can the client not see that you and I direct large, you know, installations being one of the, probably the biggest thing, but also systems, the way we structure our systems, you know, this podcast, this particular one, is about wellness, but I think there's a lot that goes into wellness. And if you don't have your your structures and your systems in place. The thing that you put at the end, well, it might look great, and it might check the box of being wellness. It if the rest of it doesn't kind of follow suit. It's kind of glitter on a pig.
Trapper Roderick 23:51
Yeah, it's funny. We kind of have gone to this side of the wellness but like, when I walk in a house, or, like, if a friend was like, hey, like, we come look at this house for me, I'm thinking of Ian, like, where's the first place I'm gonna go? I'm gonna go to the heart of the house, which is a mechanical room, right? Because that's going to tell me, really, everything I need to know of how healthy is this house like? And you can tell, like, some go to some utility rooms, and they're, they got nice epoxy or whatever on the floor, and it's all organized and beautiful looking pipes, like it's a flute, you know? I mean, yeah, so I think that that really is a good indicator of showing how healthy the stuff is that you can't see.
Mark D. Williams 24:26
You know what's funny? I don't know. I don't know what made me think of this, and I could be wrong. I don't know if I've ever had one of my lady clients ever go to the mechanical room, like it's always the guy, he always now when you but I like the way you frame it, because usually those are the engineers, and they're the ones that want to look under the hood of your car. Under the hood of your car, like, what kind of, you know, you know, what kind of RPMs, and, you know, all that kind of, I'm not a I'm not a car guy. So it's like, you know, people that want to pop the hood look at all the stuff. I'm like, great. I just want to know if I can drive fast. Don't care. But it's just sort of interesting. And like, what people gravitate towards. But honestly, it's top to bottom. It's everything.
Trapper Roderick 24:59
I. Hmm, for sure, what about you? What are some things that you, that we haven't talked about, that you think are important in wellness,
Mark D. Williams 25:09
in terms of product? I think I'm actually like, I really love plaster, Venetian plaster. I heard recently that it acts as a carbon sink. I didn't know that. So it's actually like a breathing membrane. So I don't know if you guys, do you guys do much for plaster out west?
Trapper Roderick 25:22
I like it. I do a little bit I used to do when I was little. Okay, dad, but the ones that we do in LA, like, almost all plaster, but I know like that lime plaster and stuff like that's becoming really, really popular. Yep, plaster is really cool, just as accents.
Mark D. Williams 25:37
Yeah, most of ours has been accents, but on Misa house, we're doing. Pretty much the whole house, everything's in extremes. I would say, I think a big thing is, like the finishes we're putting on woods, like, it's pretty much for sure, paints have no VOC, but stains have to have a little bit of catalyst. Like I looked in we went down the wormhole on stains. I was like, but I didn't want to force my painter to do something he'd either not done before, or B wouldn't stand the test of time. And so stains do have some element of, you know, I guess the catalyst that that bonds the chemicals to it. But like the wood floor, you know, I didn't want, like, a polyurethane or oil. We're doing linseed oil. So basically, things that have been around for a long time, and so most of our homes, like natural countertops, and whatever you can find in nature is probably going to be just fine. So I think biophilic design, you know, we use a ton of wood in our homes, again, specifically in MISA house, I think I've got, I mean, I think my poor trimmers are gonna be there for like, two and a half months. And the house isn't that big, and it's just like, every single surface in the house has, like, white oak on it. And so just natural products. And I think, I think there is something Ian us as humans. I think we're attracted towards natural things. So I'm sure there's an actual health benefit to being surrounded by things in nature. But I think there's also a psychological one of how it makes us feel, and natural light being the number one thing in my book for me. Like, I'm like, I don't like cats, oddly enough. But like, I like a cat, like, I gravitate towards, like, where, like, if there was a sunbeam coming in, like, I'm gonna go
Trapper Roderick 27:06
sit in it. That's interesting, you know, like you say that regret, we gravitate towards it. You know, like, I'm a big believer in, like, grounding. You go walking in the dirt, the grass, or the ocean, whatever, barefoot, whatnot. But like, whenever I see, like, a big, nice slab of stone, I just want to lay on it. I just want to, like, put my whole body on it.
Mark D. Williams 27:23
Just land your countertop. See what happens tomorrow morning when your wife comes down for coffee. Just I want you laying on your countertop in your kitchen, my birthday suit. Ah, just be like, I'm just grounding honey. It's not a big deal. Well, I don't know how we can end a podcast any better than that one. Thanks for tuning in the cures builder podcast, and we'll see you next week. Trapper out. Thanks for tuning in. The curious builder podcast. If you like this episode, do us a favor. Share it with three other business owners. The best way that we can spread what we're doing is by word of mouth, and with your help, we can continue to help other curious builders expand their business. Please share it with your friends. Like and review online, and thanks again for tuning in.
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