Episode 97 - Losers are Winners: Anthony Janckila on 20 Years of Floors, Fires, & Friendship
Episode #97 | Losers Are Winners | Anthony Janckila on 20 Years of Floors, Fires, & Friendship
Twenty years, 30 employees, and one very real fire that nearly took out a parquet floor a month before a major photo shoot. Anthony Janckila and Mark trade stories about clients going dark, why the GC ends up responsible for literally everything whether they get paid for it or not, and the kind of loyalty that shows up at a funeral instead of just sending flowers. This one's got heart, a little chaos, and a genuinely great pitch for a Curious Builder retirement home.
About The Curious Builder
The host of the Curious Builder Posdast is Mark D. Williams, the founder of Mark D. Williams Custom Homes Inc. They are an award-winning Twin Cities-based home builder, creating quality custom homes and remodels — one-of-a-kind dream homes of all styles and scopes. Whether you’re looking to reimagine your current space or start fresh with a new construction, we build homes that reflect how you live your everyday life.
Support the Show:
-
Mark D. Williams 00:04
I make decisions based on people. I mean, you have to have the craft, and you have to have the ability, but if I had a choice between having a good person and someone who was amazing at the craft, I would pick the person who was amazing as a person, as a human, because I think the craft can either be if they care, I think that matters a lot more than like, you still have to have the talent. I think you can develop the talent.
Anthony Janckila 00:23
Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 00:24
I don't. It's hard to teach someone to care. Welcome to Curious Bureau Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today, I am joined live from Misa, whose with Anthony Jinkola from Alpine Hardwood, speaking of losers or winners, we just spent the last hour dinking around with these dumb mics, updating bros, or as they said be a podcaster, they said it'd be easy, they said I hate when technology doesn't work, but we're alive, we're good, we're good to go,
Anthony Janckila 00:56
we're not
Mark D. Williams 00:57
all right, losers are winners, you've been in business for 20 years,
Anthony Janckila 01:00
20 years, yep,
Mark D. Williams 01:02
day in and age. Keep running, you got me. We
Anthony Janckila 01:04
got it, keep running.
Mark D. Williams 01:05
You definitely know more jobs than I, though. I probably do what, four jobs a year. You probably do what, 400 jobs a year,
Anthony Janckila 01:10
somewhere near there. Yeah, do you really? Yeah, we're getting up there. Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 01:14
I forget the episode off the top of my cuff, but if you want to get Anthony's origin story, you can go back to the early days of the podcast,
Anthony Janckila 01:21
four or five, yeah, episode four or five. Now
Mark D. Williams 01:24
I'm at 180 I think. The Monday episodes, the Thursday episodes that we do now are just losers or winners, tales of the scar, you know, basically just sharing our lumps and loses or losses. Loses is not a word, yeah. I just made it up. All right, what you got? What are some you had mentioned before? I think right before we got cut off with our mic issues, that one of the things I think it's every business owner can relate to this, but like when clients go dark or builders go dark, you know, like it's just not things aren't going well. So, do you have a story about basically on some builds where things were going dark?
Anthony Janckila 01:59
In that particular case, it was, yeah, we had a supplier supply some product to a home, which was supposedly the largest timber frame house in the world, but I can't verify either way, still water, and yeah, so the client was just, he didn't take any golf from everybody, but he fired the like everybody felt like it was just like, what are we doing, what are we doing here, but he had a standard that was set so high that nobody could really meet it, but he really wanted a certain product, and the product was kind of sold from a local perspective, and he figured out that it wasn't, and it was failing, and he told us that we have to go dark between our communications between ourselves in the supplier, who are tied to, you know, the liability of everything falls on the hardwood flooring installer, and
Mark D. Williams 02:49
so if the wood fails, the installer is responsible.
Anthony Janckila 02:52
The minute the installer touches, it's 100%
Mark D. Williams 02:54
really.
Anthony Janckila 02:55
Yeah, so don't tell anybody.
Mark D. Williams 02:57
Yeah, this podcast, don't listen
Anthony Janckila 02:59
to it. Okay, good. But sell from an installer standpoint, that's why we're so anal on who you're generally partnering with people, and
Mark D. Williams 03:09
interesting is that I mean that's rare. I mean, if like let's say a plumber, I guess maybe plumber's a good one, like if a plumbing fixture fails, you're right, the plumber put it in. I assume the manufacturer might back up the plumber because they want a good relationship, but it's probably the plumber whose insurance is gonna verify, or is gonna, yeah, fall
Anthony Janckila 03:28
on it, yeah, yeah. So, in our case, it's a lot of builders like to make sure we supply it all, so we hold that liability, and I guess all the warranties, but these days we do also install a lot of floors that we don't provide, but we are assuming a lot of liability with them, and it's not structural, or there's.. there's not.. there's.. well,
Mark D. Williams 03:48
let's drill down on that. So, like, here at Misa, whose we have Oxbow is our distributor here locally, Jeremy and John, and they.. but that wood is Arbany, it's from Amsterdam, Spanish white oak. A lot of people have loved it. If you haven't checked it out, check it out, it's amazing. And then you guys did the install,
Anthony Janckila 04:05
yeah.
Mark D. Williams 04:05
So, but you're right, I think I paid you Alpine for all of the wood, so that is the normal chain of command, where then, because you're taking all the liability, that's the way you would prefer it, or the way you're advised
Anthony Janckila 04:18
to do it, yeah, yeah. At the end of the day, we are going to take all the risks, so if anything does happen, it's on us or an insurance company or something. You can just go to us direct, and we have to take care of it. And it's interesting, because in a lot of the trades, like I don't know of any trimmers that provide their own trim, but they don't usually finish it either. So it's, I think, part of this relationship with the flooring suppliers supplying and warranting and installing and finishing, finish it 20 years ago. The painters did all the finishing,
Mark D. Williams 04:45
they finished the floors too.
Anthony Janckila 04:46
Yes,
Mark D. Williams 04:47
really,
Anthony Janckila 04:47
maybe even 25 years ago. So now it's been they're linked, whereas the flooring installer typically does all the finishing too. I guess I haven't seen a painter do it, and
Mark D. Williams 04:57
I mean, I do, I do understand that the more you've managed. More, you can mark up, like, obviously it would be reasonable for you to mark up the material, and you have a labor rate, you have a material rate plus a percentage, but that's true of anything.
Anthony Janckila 05:08
Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 05:09
right. I mean, that's true of appliances, that's true of honestly, yeah. I mean, literally everything in a house. It's kind of funny, I had a Scott Jaffa on from, he was an architect out in Utah, and he told that he was one of those rare person companies that has an architect and a builder, which is actually very rare.
Anthony Janckila 05:27
Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 05:27
I've interviewed a lot of people. There's only been a handful that I've interviewed, and but anyway, he had this great story where he had a client building called a $20 million house, or whatever, out in Utah, and the client was a plastic surgeon, I think,
Anthony Janckila 05:40
oh,
Mark D. Williams 05:40
and they, he said, I don't want to pay you a markup on all the appliances, and Scott was like, I understand, let me tell you this, he's like, I would like to get a bunch of plastic surgery done, but I went across the street and I got a bunch of cheap filler, so if I just bring my own filler, will you do the plastic surgery, and the guy's like, I get it, okay, I get it, I just thought it was such a good response, but I mean it wasn't. He wasn't trying to be cute, but he was trying to make it relative, so that the client understood. Because over my 22 year career, I've had definitely clients that will say, you know, because appliance packages on our homes can range anywhere from, call it 50 to 100 grand, it's a lot of money, but you know, they think, well, I'm just buying the refrigerator, it's a lot more than that. I mean, it's the install, it's the wood panel fronts, and who do you call when they're not lined up or something's not working? You call the builder, and you know that's the same with landscaping. Again, everyone has their own little pitch, but for us, the way I sort of do it is like, if I'm touching it, if I'm organizing it, then we have to make money on it, because we have to help facilitate, you know, the use of it down the road. Well,
Anthony Janckila 06:46
you're gonna own it,
Mark D. Williams 06:48
yeah, the JC owns it, no matter what, no matter
Anthony Janckila 06:50
what. But you, at the end of the day, I have often wondered, like, we are one sub of 100 how do you own the whole thing without at least getting compensated a little bit, because otherwise you're not, what's the incentive for you,
Mark D. Williams 07:02
right? And it's a lot of risk. Now, there are people that they'll, especially landscaping. I've seen, like, a lot of builders in our market. I don't know the true numbers, but I bet it's 50 to 70% don't keep landscaping under their roof. I actually think you should, the amount of work that we have to do as a GC, like, you know, right now we're looking at the great room, like this pool out here, and we're coordinating the pool around the ciders, and around, you know, we have the stone, you know, the patio work, and we have, you know, obviously our excavator. Well, you
Anthony Janckila 07:31
want to look for some failures between those two things. I often wonder that, why is that not typical, or is it landscapers going direct through client to, you know, homeward online, or not. No, that's what I
Mark D. Williams 07:43
think. I think about 70% of them do go straight, yeah. But usually, well, I think it's a bad idea. Well, they don't want to pay the builder the markup fee, because they think they can manage it. And I've done a early on in my career, and there are some builders I get, they're just like, we just don't want to do it, we don't want to, we don't, they think they can absolve themselves from all responsibility, but here's what happens: is you, the landscaper, goes in. Well, who's responsible for running a gas line to the pool and all the pool equipment? It's coming from the house that's under the GCS license, and so that means you're now responsible. If that fails, it's the GC, you're not getting paid for it. So, okay, what about a power electric site work, you know, how close you are to the foundation. Your
Anthony Janckila 08:24
client's not going to take care of this,
Mark D. Williams 08:25
no. Or
Anthony Janckila 08:26
somebody has to, right?
Mark D. Williams 08:27
And so what happens is, is when you ask people to do things and they don't get paid for it, you either create a bad attitude or you create people begrudge it, right. And so I do know it depends on the client. There are some that will negotiate a flat rate. You know, I've heard of stories. Let's say you have a multi million dollar project, it could be a multi million dollar landscape thing, and they're saying, well, you know, I don't want to charge x margin on the whole thing. And depending on the circumstances, depending on how involved the project is, when it is, you know, like I do know sometimes people just want to move into their house, maybe it could be an acreage piece. Now that I think is a little bit different, if you have, like, let's say 10 or 50 acres, like we did a project, you were on it, 50 acres up in Dayton, right? And they wanted, as a recall, they had landscaping, they did the pool all by themselves, so they paid us, it was probably a million dollar pool, it was one of the coolest pools I've ever seen, remember, and and they only wanted us to do the site work, they want us to do all the concrete work, the moving all that we had to create a huge berm, like a 50 foot dirt berm, the pool guy's not set up for that, but dozers are so we did that, but they kept refusing, we wanted to get photos of it, and they're like, well, you weren't responsible for the pool, and they were obviously, they kind of turned difficult later on in the project, and I said, "Well, how do you think that? How do you think that pool got built? Where's all the power? In fact, we built an underground bunker of concrete built into the hill for all of the mechanical equipment with vents. We did all that. The pool guys aren't going to do that, and so. But they, I mean, that's just navigating difficult clients and what they wanted. They really felt like the pool was their baby, and they didn't want us to be a part of it, and they flew in people from all over the country. But I guess I was meant to bring this up, as that's one of those cases that just proves my point, why it doesn't. But, like, on a 50 acre piece, you know, maybe in the first couple years you build the house, you do landscaping within 100 yards of the house, but then maybe the client's like, "Hey, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna create like a fishing pond, or we're gonna create, you know, all these other things over the next 510, years. That's fine. I don't need to be involved. Yeah, right. Yeah, but realistically, if you're getting that big, we likely are. Get a fishing pond, you're gonna have to create like that was the original dream. He wanted a fishing pond. Oh, wow, he wanted a zip line down to the fishing pond, which I was all, you know, my inner kid. I was like, oh, this would be amazing. So, no,
Anthony Janckila 10:48
if you could just be a part of it. Yeah, really,
Mark D. Williams 10:50
I don't think they ever did it. Okay,
Anthony Janckila 10:52
but like, that's what I've often maybe misunderstood, is why would you build a house but not be a part of, like, the near within 20 yards of like a pool and a landscaping package, and of course there's reasons, obviously, because of xyz, but it feels like you're just doing something three quarters of the way.
Mark D. Williams 11:10
I mean, I think specifically we're talking about landscaping, but I think early on in my career my clients didn't prioritize landscaping. I don't think I did either. I think good landscape architects, like Pebble, who did here at Mises, like they make, they reinforce the architecture of the house, right? And I think you, an earlier question you said is, how can a GC, you know, we have to take on all the responsibility, like if something fails with the wood, like yes, Alpine is going to get brought into it, because you're the wood fault, but no matter what, I'm getting involved, no matter of the 100 subs, I sure shoot, no matter what happens, if there's a failure, the GC is involved. So, to your point, you should be paid for it, because you are taking the responsibility for it. There's a builder in Newport Beach out in California, and he has a very sophisticated home maintenance plan, but he only does it for his existing clients, and he does this great thing where he charges clients a lot of money for it for continuing maintenance, but his point to builders are is you are responsible for this home for a decade either way, whether they pay you or whether they don't pay you, but once you want to get paid for what you already have to do anyway, and his point is, is like you have to warranty the house, and a lot of clients don't know how to take care of a home of these calibers, right. And so it's something that I actually need to now that we're at a different tier of home class, if you will. It's like the people that own these homes are pretty.. it's like owning a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, they're very sophisticated, very
Anthony Janckila 12:37
common just to have someone else that maintains everything.
Mark D. Williams 12:39
Yeah, and there's a lot, and it's not really the detriment to a client, it's a, they probably have the disposable income to pay someone to help manage it, but on top of it, it's really complicated on many, it's also just a lot of things,
Anthony Janckila 12:50
well, a lot of things, and then the way I look at it is a lot of these types of people value one thing and it's time, it's a currency that we all are a part of that we can't escape or we can't really buy any more of, so who wants to spend the time like we did, an hour maintaining our technology right when we're uncomfortable with it, and we don't exactly know like the ins and out of
Mark D. Williams 13:12
it. Yeah, I mean, we made four phone calls to try to get these mics set up.
Anthony Janckila 13:15
Yep,
Mark D. Williams 13:15
because you're good at building floors, I'm not sure what I'm good at, but I didn't, you know, turns out updating your Google software browser, and the different.. we learned something. We had a
Anthony Janckila 13:24
call on the girls from Nextdoor to come help us.
Mark D. Williams 13:26
This episode is brought to you by Pella Windows and Doors. I've used Pella for 21 years as the exclusive window company on every one of my builds. When people ask me who I trust for Windows and Doors, it's Pella. Every time, their craftsmanship, their innovation, the top-tier service, make them a no-brainer for any custom home builder or designer who demand the best. Whether you're designing something bold or building something with timeless elegance, Pella has you covered. They're also the only window company that has a lifetime warranty on all of their windows. I've gotten to know all their people at Pella corporate, as well as locally here at Pella Northland. I'm proud to call them our partners and our friends. Visit pella.com to learn more and connect with your local reps today. For more information, you can also listen to episode one, where I interview the Pella Northland founders, as well as episode 109 where we talk all about their latest innovation with the steady set window. You know, what's funny, though, going back to the losers or winners thing, I am, I think I've made. I think we continue to make every mistake. I often joke about social media, like, I think I've made every mistake you can make. I'm sure I'll make more, but I'm actually not afraid of making the mistake. Yeah, I'm afraid of not learning from my mistake.
Anthony Janckila 14:34
Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 14:34
that would be a problem.
Anthony Janckila 14:35
Yeah, well, then two, do you want to get just so comfortable that you can't really dare to really step out and push your boundaries a little bit.
Mark D. Williams 14:43
I think so. Yeah,
Anthony Janckila 14:45
sometimes it's nice to take it easy for a little bit, but I think there's a lot in, like, we've tried that with back to the wins and losses, or you know, the epic fails. Is some finishing manufacturers have provided, like, you know, these guarantees and these promises. Well, we are on the hook for. Form when they don't, when they do fail. Well, we're mixing latex paints with water-based finishes, and these things that nobody would guarantee or warranty or anything or approve of, but there's just different things that we are not afraid of stepping out to make something work, and I had 10 times they do work, but there has been times where they haven't, and I guess that's where kind of like you learn so much from, like, okay, that didn't work. What do we got to do to go from here?
Mark D. Williams 15:31
One of my HVAC guys, Tony Alito, shout out to him, he has a great line, you know, the line where it said every day is a new day, he says every time there's an issue, he goes, every day is a school day like you learn something. I really, he also has a really positive attitude, and like I guess what I'm saying with is like every time something fails, you learn a different, you know, hopefully a way to again to not repeat it again. Yeah, or you add it to your education. The problem is, after doing this for 22 years, I'd like to be like, man, how much learning do I have to keep? Yes, it's like it kind of never stops,
Anthony Janckila 16:00
right? And you have to be open to that, though. That's the challenge for a lot of people. They want to just shut it down, or just.. but
Mark D. Williams 16:08
don't you think that if you're not innovating, if you're not changing? Like, what are some things that you do? You feel like.. let's talk about, like, how you run a business, because I think you run a very.. because you have what, 40 employees
Anthony Janckila 16:17
over on about 30 guys,
Mark D. Williams 16:18
30 guys, which is fairly significant. What are some things that you've learned over the years that are either growing pains, sometimes, like in building? I've heard, like, a revenue number, like the difference between, like, if you do 10 million to 20 million a year, that revenue is like going through the glass ceiling, like you don't make any more money because you have to hire a lot more people, and operationally you have to change your business to get there. Did you find that as you scaled up in terms of personnel and people, do you find that there are mistakes that you made, and I know we talked about this in the last episode, a couple years ago, like, you know, like where Regan is, or your estimator, like, you know, the personality guy that came in and said, I can tell you right now that that guy sitting in the back is whatever, I mean, what are some of those lessons that you've learned, because you have a very successful business, as I can tell it. You've certainly, you've had some stuff that you've made mistakes on with how you've organized, maybe personnel or things like that. I
Anthony Janckila 17:09
think the, yeah, organizing the people, you're like, I'm supposed to be a really good delegator, a good starter, not a very good finisher. And I've often been like, well, I can do everything myself, so why am I predicting or pretending that I can finish things as well as the next guy? In reality, there's many other people that are much better at it, and I feel like that's probably the best thing, is putting these people in the right situations to excel, and where they maybe are more passionate about it than because we feel like we're as a business owner passionate about everything, like I want to be sitting here, but I also want to be jumping in the pool, you know, like there's so many things, and I want to go sit in the sound of it, because I've never sat down with rocks underneath, like there's so many things that you're just like, and it's probably one of our crooks, is like we can't be satisfied with anything just as it is, but I feel like that was probably the biggest thing. Is like, hey, we needed people in the right spots before you can even dare to scale. We've tried to scale with all people in the right spots, and it just puts more weight on the owners or somebody that's willing to pick up the responsibility. But it is, I think, probably the hardest thing is I feel like I can just kind of will things, you know, like pushing a rope, just will it to happen, and it does work to some degree, but only so far. And I think when you come to scaling, it's one of those things where you do need people that are better than you, ideally everybody's better than you, and you get to just
Mark D. Williams 18:36
do you find that there are things that you're at one time you're really passionate about, and you love doing it, but today, after 20 years, you're like, I'm not interested in that anymore. And so, then, where I'm going with this is, there are things now that I'm less interested in, for sure, but there are people on my team that find it very exciting, and, like, which is great. And so, like, as soon as you realize, like, oh, Angie on my team loves doing the estimating, and kind of like, great, you know, like, put that together. I mean, I'll review it with her, but, like, I find that sometimes the thing that we no longer are that enamored with, that there are people that, that do find it exciting, or do enjoy whatever that challenge might be. Yeah, and I feel like sometimes, as an owner, we just, because it doesn't appeal to us. I'm sometimes blinded by the fact that doesn't mean it doesn't appeal to somebody else, and so you might be making their day, but let people do what they love to do, and if they don't love to do it, then find someone else to do that job. Like, there are plenty of things that I don't like doing. I'm not saying you can't, you can't have to do some difficult things, or not difficult is wrong word, but like hopefully we can align our interests with the things that are passion. Yeah, because you should stay in that lane. If you can stay where you're passionate and creative and excited, like it reads both worlds, you do it, but you get energy from it. Yeah, so it's everybody
Anthony Janckila 19:52
does,
Mark D. Williams 19:53
but if you constantly do things you don't enjoy, like you won't last very long. No. So back to the rich question, are the things that you. You used to enjoy, but that you don't enjoy anymore.
Anthony Janckila 20:03
So, yes, a lot of them,
Mark D. Williams 20:06
but
Anthony Janckila 20:07
like I loved estimating, because I love numbers, love following them. I got a degree in entrepreneurship, but I went to finance, excel data - just it was just something that came naturally. Love using memory, thinking, planning, processing, whatever, but I realized that you can only do that so much, and then either it gets boring, or you realize that there's people that are better than you, and not only just better than you, just that are more engaged in it from a day-to-day standpoint, because I'd be engaged in it for however long, and I'm like, well, what's the next thing, you know, where people, there's people like the Regans, can be more consistently engaged in it and love it for longer, like you say, he feels like he's in the right lane. So, I feel like there's that. When I was in college, I was taking a communications class, and they say the best form of leadership is followership. Yeah, what
Mark D. Williams 20:54
does that mean?
Anthony Janckila 20:55
It just means that I feel like I can be a leader, and I do enjoy being a leader, maybe from just the 10,000 you know, altitude foot altitude kind of feeling, not having to dig in the weeds too much, but they say that if you can be a even a better follower of the people that you are leading, that's gonna be even a stronger form of communication, for one, but even from the business, there's
Mark D. Williams 21:20
a.. there's a.. I think lately, the last couple years, there's a thing in corporate America that actually, like, it's called servant leadership.
Anthony Janckila 21:28
It's the same thing, servitude. Yeah, I
Mark D. Williams 21:30
mean, honestly, it's a Christian person, all right? Like, Jesus washed his disciples' feet. Oh, yeah, same. I mean, that's ultimately what we're talking about, is you know, serving others. And I know I heard.. I saw this other day. I came out of my social media, and I realized how bad I was at it. And this gentleman was talking about, he, you know, had a, I don't know, billion dollar company, and this multi, multi billionaire came into him and said, Can I give you a piece of advice? And he's like, when you're in a room, do yourself a favor and shut up. He's like, just listen, listen to your people. And so he, his, he was coming out, he was being interviewed on the podcast, and he was just talking about how, and I know that Jeff Bezos does this at Amazon, so let's have a board meeting with like 20 people, yeah, and to be clear, I don't do this, it's this, this advice is for myself, but it's like at that, and it's hard to do as that, as Alpha, and as a driver in a small company, you want to get things going, you want to wrap it up, but you don't give your people chances to grow or for them to develop their voices. Anyway, Jeff Bezos, this thing is he would always talk last, because if you have a room of 20 people and you're like, "Hey, we're thinking about launching XYZ. If the owner of the company shares his thoughts first, people either mirror him or they're not going to disagree with him, because we don't think that sometimes, as the owner, we are unaware of our gravitational pull of our, you know, we think everyone is open-minded because we're open-minded, we can speak our mind, but we own the company.
Anthony Janckila 22:49
Yeah, we don't. A lot of freedom in that. There
Mark D. Williams 22:51
is, and I know I've forgotten that sometimes. And this was just a good lesson to hear. So, Jeff would basically have every single person share their comments and their thoughts, then he would go last, yeah,
Anthony Janckila 23:02
which is very powerful, and you're
Mark D. Williams 23:03
gonna get a lot more good ideas.
Anthony Janckila 23:05
Oh, yeah, yeah, you don't have that boss bias, like, well, he spoke now, we got to do whatever, we got to re-cater our thoughts and our processes to what he said, and you know that's what's happening. I know, and that is one thing that even with marketing, like, I thought I got a marketing emphasis, thought it was, I'll figure this all out, liked it, loved it, enjoyed it, but I realized that no, I do like the, the ideas, but I'm a very poor finisher, consistency, follow up, redo, and I like the all they had different ideas, but I also feel like there's so many more people, like maybe even to Jeff's credit, like he's like he's only one man of, let's say, 20 in a room collectively. If you can get those 20 to come up with their ideas, rather than just the one guy's stepping on all of them. Well, what more do you need?
Mark D. Williams 23:50
I mean, look at it like, a, you mentioned closing, so think about, like, I'm not a big baseball fan, but it applies, right? You know, in today's baseball game, you know, right? You've got, you know, someone, you know, they pitch seven innings, striking six innings. Well, and then you've got, well, then you bring in the closer, yeah, right, like that's their specific job. And I look at, you know, of course, again, we're sitting in me, so this here, this home is absolutely insane. Every time I'm sitting in here, and I see the detail, the craftsmanship, I think of the names of the people that I saw that were here for hours and days and weeks and months and years, in the case of Mike, and just, and someone can now enjoy it, and I think that's fine, but the few of us that have been here the whole time sort of have a deeper appreciation for the work, and like seeing Sam, you know, on your time today was really cool, because you know we had a, you know, we'll do this in another losers or winners episode with Melissa Olint and I, but we had a fire at Misa Hills, you know, maybe a month before the first photo shoot. Basically, the torch that was being, they were welding a railing and it lit the plastic on fire, and then that went on fire, and then it burned the floor. So, anyway, Sam comes in a week later, because I'm like. We can't, I mean, now what do we do? And luckily we had, I think, five extra those parquet floors, so he jigsaw puzzled it apart and hand put each piece in. It was really impressive,
Anthony Janckila 25:11
guy, he loves that stuff, right? Even though he's like, "Can we discover it? Like, "Oh, we gotta get this figured out, but I mean,
Mark D. Williams 25:16
that's the point, like his craftsmanship, and, like, I think uniquely, the one thing I've also learned, especially in these higher-end homes, people like to be mentally stimulated and mentally challenged, and the number of people that want to seek, you know, that I'm flattered by it, that want to reach out to us on LinkedIn or social media, or whatever, they want to work for a company. I think, sure, there's some of it that they just see, you know, cool homes that we build, which is great, but yeah, I think they're cool too, but I like the fact that they want to do something really unique, and you know, maybe they've been in industry, and there's no knock on it. Maybe they may have worked with.. I have two people on my team that used to work for production builders, and for them, the reason they came over with me is they wanted more client interaction, and they wanted something that they could leave their personal stamp on, feel like they were making a difference. They didn't want to be a widget in a wheel, they wanted to have a real voice, and that's powerful. I think, as small entrepreneurs across the country listening to this, is don't underestimate, you know, the power of your people having a voice in your company, because it can be, you can,
Anthony Janckila 26:16
very true, you
Mark D. Williams 26:16
can sing a lot louder in a choir than you can alone.
Anthony Janckila 26:19
Yeah, yeah, that is very, yeah, and I think collectively as a whole, like, it becomes a much better tune, anyways. Really, you can produce much better music when you get a bunch of people together that will, one with catering to all their strengths, too. I mean, like, you have a composer that operates it, but there's so much to, like, a business, like, like I always commend you, build, there's like 100 subs, we can't hardly keep one, you know, operating in Europe in charge and responsible, and really overall the voice of 100 And a client comes with some problems, they're coming to you, they don't come to us right away,
Mark D. Williams 26:56
you know. Two thoughts here, and we'll close this episode down, but one of them is that is why I think relationships are so important, because at the end of the day, well, I mean, we'll speak about our relationship. I mean, you and I have been almost two decades working together. I don't, honestly, I don't remember the first time we even started. When do you remember when we first started?
Anthony Janckila 27:11
Don't I don't know, looking back one day, and I was like, my emails don't go back that far. Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 27:16
I lost my computer back in like 2013 to water damage. Okay, but it would be interesting to see if you could look in your, like, QuickBooks to see, you know,
Anthony Janckila 27:23
we went to QuickBooks Online, so we ours go back to, like, either 17 or 14, and it was before that.
Mark D. Williams 27:29
Oh, yeah, for sure. Anyway, I don't even remember, so it doesn't really matter, but I guess the point I was making is that, like, we make, I make decisions based on people, I mean, you have to have the craft and you have to have the ability, yeah, but if I had a choice between having a good person and someone who is amazing at the craft. I would pick the person who was amazing as a person, as a human, because I think the craft can either be if they care. I think that matters a lot more than, like, you know, you still have to have the talent, but I think you can develop the talent. Yeah, I don't. It's hard to teach someone to care if they don't care.
Anthony Janckila 27:58
Well, and two, though, even if you have someone that cares, and they go find the talent. Think about that. If they're willing to open up themselves and their company to a team mentality, there's a team of people that will figure it out if you trust who you're working with. Right at the end of the day, if you don't like somebody, you don't. I know of some guys that are.. I won't work, I won't ever use them. I don't care how good they are. Yeah, you sometimes have to overcome that, and you got to, you got to work with that, but why wouldn't you rather not find someone that I love working for you, energy, you know, energetic, engaging, you care, everything else will just fall into place on it, long as you respect each other.
Mark D. Williams 28:32
Agreed, and I give you a lot of credit, you know, since the spirit of this episode is failures are winners. I mean, we had a really.. it's kind of like when you're, when you're in the mud, or when you're at the hospital, like the people that show up at the hospital, they're usually your family.
Anthony Janckila 28:44
Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 28:44
when, like, you're hurt, and the people that show up in your corner, I don't think people realize it at the time, but, like, the people who show up for you, like, it sort of validates your friendship in a way that you sometimes don't understand. And we, you and I, had a deal a couple years ago, a very one of the more difficult things I've ever had in my career. Yeah, and the way that you guys handle that, as long as I'm building homes, like you will do, or what floors, like, without a doubt, and for a variety of reasons, but one of them is like you can't put a price you on a value of a friendship for people who show up with you for you when you need it, especially when, like, you're hurt, if you will, right, yeah, and you look at, like, your family, like, there's nothing you would do for your kids, because you're their dad. I mean, that's a different relationship, but, like, someone who shows up for your kids, like, as a dad, like, that means a lot to you, even if the relationship was to your kids. And I, I kind of go relationship-based with family that way, because that's just how I think. But, like, when I, like, I could handle someone being sort of rude or mean to me, let's say,
Anthony Janckila 29:41
yeah,
Mark D. Williams 29:41
but like, if someone was rude or mean to, like, the people on my team, or to, like, you, like, if I saw a homeowner, like, I've just never, I've never had that, I shouldn't say never, I had, we have had one client quite like that, but like, if you see people, either verbally or emotionally, or just coming at your people, like, my claws are gonna come out, like I'm a. Pretty easy, I'll deal with it, but, like, you don't come, don't come at Alpine, and Anthony, those guys, I mean, those guys are doing the best they can, and we've never had that issue, but someday it'll happen, it can happen, and that's fine, and we'll have to deal with it, and I think it's important for us to realize when we have to draw a line in the sand and tell a client that's not acceptable, yeah, but we have to find a way through,
Anthony Janckila 30:18
yeah, well, the thing is, though, I think when you find good people to work with, you know, that's like they have your back, and that's a, that's a like a pillar of strength when it comes to like navigating these things. One thing before we close is there was one time in my life where I had a sister that passed when she was 35 there was one builder of ours that showed up, guess who it was,
Mark D. Williams 30:36
I remember I was there.
Anthony Janckila 30:37
There you go, that's all I need to say.
Mark D. Williams 30:40
That was, that was a powerful ranking goosebumps. Just thinking about it, I remember very clearly just the outpouring of the community. I don't think I'd ever even met your sister.
Anthony Janckila 30:51
Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 30:51
and but I could tell you exactly what it felt like to be there, and to see there's 100 and gold, maybe 1000 Got a pretty big family, and, but it's funny, because we just, I was just at a funeral recently, and it was kind of the same thing, and my grandma, 99 passed away here a couple weeks ago, and she had a beautiful life, and it was, it was really, really special, and it was really a celebration, a lot different funeral than the one for your sister, yeah, but I was explaining it to my kids, and there is something my wife just sent me a text today. She's in the field of healthcare, and she cares a lot about her job, but it can make her cranky. It can make her really.. and she just said she's like, "I think I take my job too seriously sometimes. Now, it's not that she's dealing with literally life and death. Yeah, like you and I are dealing with wood floors and homes, like,
Anthony Janckila 31:40
yeah, she's got a stress, she does, but I
Mark D. Williams 31:43
still, you know, it's still a job, and I, I don't know how, as, as business owners here, and as, like, my wife, kind of, a let's say, she runs an entire, like, nursing home, if you all, as the physician on staff, there is that, you know, you, it's impossible not to take the responsibility with you, because that's also what makes you good at your job, but I think we all sometimes need to take a breath and exhale and realize, like, it's just a wood floor,
Anthony Janckila 32:07
yeah, it's gonna be okay,
Mark D. Williams 32:10
and like, but even like a house, and like, I'm not saying that the client concerns or whatever aren't important, but I think realizing that people are humans and respect it, like, at the end of the day, I would love to build like three or four homes, like we're sitting in right now, a year, or every couple years, honestly, because these homes are really complicated with a handful of people that really value what you do, that would be enough for me, because, like, I just want to work with good people, for good people, and do things that are really fulfilling, and it's a thing, if we can get there, whatever that is, for our careers or our business, I think that's a special place to be.
Anthony Janckila 32:45
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and it just making memories, so we can all leave, you know, at some point we're gonna get to this nursing home status.
Mark D. Williams 32:51
Yeah,
Anthony Janckila 32:52
who are you leaning on, or what are you leaning on to to help carry you? A lot of these memory, many memories that you've had, like today, you work on a cookie cutter houses, we used to do that. They all were the same. I don't have any memories, other than they were boring,
Mark D. Williams 33:05
right? And I don't
Anthony Janckila 33:06
ever want to do them again. But that's what's so cool about the relationship side of things. These small businesses, and in us, is
Mark D. Williams 33:11
how fun would it be if we were all in the same nursing home together? I don't know if we could go there. That would be amazing. Belly
Anthony Janckila 33:19
up, toes up in the pool. Oh dude,
Mark D. Williams 33:20
yeah, yeah, there would be some tomfoolery for sure, but can you imagine that poor nursing staff,
Anthony Janckila 33:25
boy, we'd be racing up and down the hallways, maybe that's what our
Mark D. Williams 33:28
next gig is. We need a curious builder nursing home, and then our whole community, that's a great idea,
Anthony Janckila 33:34
that's all good, wheelchairs and pop wheelies all over.
Mark D. Williams 33:36
Oh man,
Anthony Janckila 33:37
yeah,
Mark D. Williams 33:37
all right. Well, this episode has clearly gone off the rails. Tune in if you want to know more about Alpine Hardwood. We'll have their stuff in the show notes. Thanks for tuning the Cures Liver Podcast. Appreciate your listenership. If you find this is valuable, you hear it all the time, but like it does matter. Like, please go rate it, like literally right now. What are you doing? Rate it five stars for Anthony, for sure. Even if it's only one for me, comment on Anthony, he's the best. We'll see you Mondays and Thursdays. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for tuning in to Curious Builder Podcast. If you liked this episode, do us a favor, share it with three other business owners. The best way that we can spread what we're doing is by word of mouth, and with your help, we can continue to help other Curious Builders expand their business. Please share it with your friends, like and review online, and thanks again for tuning in.
This episode is sponsored by:
