Episode 112 - The Power of Showing Up: Morgan Molitor on Retreats, Resilience & Relationships

#112 | Morgan Molitor | Construction2Style, BuildHer Retreat, Contractor Coalition Summit | The Power of Showing Up: Morgan Molitor on Retreats, Resilience & Relationships

Morgan Molitor joins for her third appearance to unpack the success of her Build Her Retreat in Costa Rica, the growth of the Contractor Coalition, and why community events matter more than ever in construction. From mental health conversations to the challenges of leading as a woman in the trades, this episode digs deep into mindset, business growth, and creating spaces where builders thrive.

Listen to the full episode:

About Morgan Molitor

Morgan Molitor, co-founder of construction2style (c2s), a dynamic design and build firm, alongside her husband Jamie, has been keeping it real since 2012.

As a wife, mother of three, and c2s co-founder, Morgan embodies creativity and innovation. Starting with a humble blog, their journey has blossomed into a thriving design + build firm, construction2style. Expanding further, they launched Neon Lion, a dynamic media company, and championed second chances through the non-profit initiative, resilience2reform. Spanning nearly a decade, these endeavors showcase Morgan's commitment to transformative design, media, marketing, and community impact.

With an academic background in fashion merchandising and marketing, Morgan's years in the corporate world paved the way for her venture into the home industry. At c2s, she juggles multiple roles, managing content creation, marketing, brand partnerships, and leading interior design and styling. Her passion for community over competition is evident in initiatives like online courses, in-house marketing workshops, and the national Contractor Coalition Summit, that she spearheads with two industry colleagues.

A forward thinker and risk-taker, Morgan finds joy in contributing to people's dreams and lives. Her infectious positive energy resonates through their work, whether crafting dream spaces for clients or guiding colleagues through marketing endeavors. With Jamie, they've revolutionized the industry, sharing home lifestyle insights and providing invaluable guidance on design, construction, marketing, community, and team lifestyle. Their dedication to authenticity and transparency has been a guiding principle of construction2style since 2012.

Resources:

Find the Contractor Coalition Summit’s Website Here

Sign Up for the Next BuildHer Retreat

Find the Construction2Style Website Here

Follow Construction2Style on Instagram here

Like Construction2Style on Facebook here

See Construction2Style on Houzz

• Transcript

  Mark D. Williams  00:04

  Ian, I just love that these types of community events and education, things like your your tribe, attract your vibe, attracts your tribe, as you always say, and it just keeps getting tighter and tighter. And so it becomes surprising to you and I when we feel when we are around people that don't think that yeah, and it's almost like, it's like you're looking under a rock, like, well, this is what is this? What's going on here? Like, let's dig into this. Today on the podcast, we had Morgan molder on, and as you can imagine, we covered a lot of ground. If you've heard her before, she's a third time guest, and we talk a lot about her build her retreats, which were down in Costa Rica, that just happened about 30 days ago. We talk a lot about contractor coalition coming up here in June as well as November, and really just the benefits of having a community that supports each other. Tons of great nuggets. Without further ado, here's Morgan Molitor. Welcome to curious Bucha Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today we have a third time attendee. We got Morgan Molitor in studio. Hi Morgan. Woohoo. Thanks for having me. So for those that have not met Morgan, your world is about to get a little brighter. She's amazing. She and her business partner and husband and life partner, Jamie, own five companies. We've got construction to style. We've got contractor coalition, resilience to reform neon lion and build her retreats. That's right, although he can't really be part of build her retreats, actually, not a part of a few of them. Okay, Jamie, we love you. He's married, so he's there. If you want to know more about Morgan's business, recommend listening to episode seven, two years ago now. That's wild. Two and a half years ago since episode seven, where we really dive into all of those, although build her wasn't created at that time, and then episode 48 was a year and a half ago. We spoke all about mental health. That was a really popular episode. People really resonated with that. And so anyway, those would be some good ones. Today, we're going to talk about mindset in our market. Right now, I think we'll talk about build her retreat, which just happened a month ago. For you, we'll talk a little bit about contractor coalition coming up here in June, in Omaha, down at builder trend headquarters and as well as in Chicago in first week of November. And then we'll just see, knowing you and I, we probably won't make it through any of those topics. We'll probably just pick three other ones. I love it when we have two people with ADHD and they combined, you get a lot of action going on here. A lot of information flying. Oh,

  Morgan Molitor  02:26

  I love it. No need to speed it up to 1.25 on this. No,

  Mark D. Williams  02:31

  I had a lady one time who called me or sent me a message, and she said, Thank you for speaking so fast. I don't have to speed up your episodes, which I took as the ultimate compliment. Not sure why, but

  Morgan Molitor  02:42

  we don't like to waste other people's time. Yeah, we like to talk it along, get to the point. Well, let's start

  Mark D. Williams  02:47

  with Bill her, where that was, what? 30 days ago, you guys were down in Costa Rica. Has it been that

  Morgan Molitor  02:52

  long already? I It feels like a year ago, but yeah, I think so. Just so

  Mark D. Williams  02:57

  you your first one was a year ago, down in Costa Rica, and the origin story of build her was basically a female led retreat to celebrate women entrepreneurs kind of break away from the day and grind or walk us through the original idea, why you started it, and how has it changed from year one to year two? Okay?

  Morgan Molitor  03:16

  And also, that's crazy that the last time I was on this podcast that it hadn't been it hadn't even happened yet. I'm like, oh my goodness gracious. So we started it, yeah, January of last year, and then we just had a March of this year, and we're already planning the next three years in advance. Three years

  Mark D. Williams  03:33

  in advance. Yeah, three years why? Just because a lot of the

  Morgan Molitor  03:36

  places that we're going, they're international, and we have to book them that far in advance. And as you know, planning events, I always say it's like you're putting on a wedding, and these places that you want to book are booked out two years in advance. So we're choosing places for build her that aren't necessarily these event centers, if you will. We're looking at homes and what has to be able to accommodate a number of people. Have the settings that we want for the dinners, interactions, education, and also be all within our price range. I got started actually, because Meg and ally, who are my two partners in that. Ally, integral builders out of Chicago, and Meg, they both been on your podcast, out of Idaho, Megan co home and all

  Mark D. Williams  04:16

  former contractor coalition, where it came from, yeah. Well, I was like,

  Morgan Molitor  04:20

  they both came there. That's how that's where I met Meg is from her showing up there. That's how I met you from showing up there. That's who I say. I've met my favorite peoples from showing up at contractor coalition. And so, yeah, they both had come to the summit. They got to know one another through another event. And then the three of us started having a conversation about, like, how can we have some sort of this event, but in a different way for females that have to level up and show up the same way as men do, and a lot of that, it's not about the education necessarily. It's about how we have to show up in a room, how we have to show up in conversations, how we have to set ourselves apart. And that. Is there's a lot of mental that goes into that, and so we form this retreat just once a year International to be able to do that, like retreat, get recenter, get refocused, and then also educate. There's a portion of that. It's a lot different than contractor coalition, where that's like heavily focused on education. Obviously, we have a lot of fun too, but this side is for just leveling up. So I'm really

  Mark D. Williams  05:23

  curious about that. I mean, I have a daughter. I have so many women in my life that I respect and Model A lot of my behavior, my mom being like a lot of people, that what you learn from your childhood and things that you model and your behavior as parents, things like that. But what were, what are some of the things that you could tell the audience or share with me, what is it, you know? What is there a double standard, not only in building, but just in life in general, for women compared to men? Entrepreneur, and what are some of those things that you that were discussed, that you sort of have to combat, and say as women, these are things that we have to overcome. I'd love to dive a little deeper on some of those topics.

  Morgan Molitor  05:58

  Yeah, well, Meg and Allie, actually, both had great presentations just a month ago. And so what we do, too, is I lead a day, Meg leads a day. Ali leads a day, yeah. And we just have the morning session, and then the rest of the day we do something that's conquering a fear or something like that. And so Meg and Ally days, actually, Meg focused a lot on also being a mom and like, how we have to show up for our kids, how we have to show up for our partner, how we have to and she just talked a lot about empathy and separating the two yet, that they are one and that they do overlap, and just how to be able to get through, You know, a lot of those hard days. And then ally talked a lot about client expectations and how she just went through a really hard year that I had no idea. And I talked to her on a regular basis, and she was like, I keep saying it even in my head every day. And it's like, we all know this from Dory, just keep swimming. Keep swimming. And like, I hear Ally's voice being like, keep swimming, keep swimming. But Instagram

  Mark D. Williams  07:04

  reels, Ally, you are a hilarious person. Her personality is like, so deadpan, the things that she can say, Oh yeah, I'm actually gonna have her come on to talk. We're gonna do a 20 minute episode just on change orders, because she's so clear and so clear as kind, right? Yeah. And she's just so good at it. And she did an episode with building code recently, and I listened to it, and I was like, I sent her a text. I'm like, Allie, would you come on? Because I feel like as many people that can hear your take on how this works is just, she's just very clear. She has such a clear identity of who she is, what she wants to do and what the outcome is. And anyway, I really appreciate her, but she's got kind of, like, this really funny sense of humor that's very dry, yeah, like,

  Morgan Molitor  07:46

  when she started talking, I was like, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. And I was like, almost on the floor, because I'm like, did you really just say that? But she can say in such like, like, you need to be a comedian. Oh, she'd be a killer

  Mark D. Williams  07:57

  comedian for

  07:58

  our industry. There we go.

  Mark D. Williams  07:59

  We should have an open mic honestly, we should have an open mic night. That is great at contractor coalition ID alert knew this one, stay on the rails. Think about this. This would be amazing open mic night. And people and everyone would share two stories of like a fail or something. Because, wow, who can't relate to a fail, right? I actually want to do a podcast series I haven't been able to figure out, or like, Instagram series where basically the concept is, you have to fail to succeed. And we'd pick all these really well known builders across the country, and they would just do a little video camera of, like, you know, I I'm terrible, yeah, I failed, yeah. And then, but everyone knows, like, they're successful, right? And then it'd be kind of like, but this is what made me this is what I learned. This is why I'm successful. Because I I feel like podcasts in general. And I think one of the reasons why our last episode did so well is we talked about a lot of the difficult things that we go through as human beings, right? And we just happen to be builders. And yes, we talk about building tips and tricks and things like that, but I feel like it can be a lonely island, yeah? And I think what draws people together the community of like, hey, we have similar issues. Yeah.

  Morgan Molitor  09:02

  And being vulnerable. And, I mean, that's what Allie was talking about too, is just like failing forward. And how do you use all these things to move into that next season, that next chapter, in a really positive way, and using that as fuel? And so, yeah, and a lot of the conversation too. It's like, for women in this industry, things that you would say versus that I would say, like, I would be probably considered, you know, a bitch, whereas you you wouldn't be. You have an example.

  Mark D. Williams  09:32

  Did you guys actually do an example of, like, something like that? You would that I would say, and that you would say, and we would be perceived differently. I

  Morgan Molitor  09:39

  mean, not one that I can or

  Mark D. Williams  09:41

  more like the spirit of it, like, if I like, if I come off strong and authoritative and like, this is how it is. Yeah, I'm considered as a male, confident and oh, that's how it is. But if a woman is through that, the double standard is, is like, oh, man, she's a B,

  Morgan Molitor  09:54

  yeah, yes. And it all comes down to financials, right? Saying, This is a change order. This. Needs to be paid, and talking through a lot of that kind of stuff. And really it's like, no, this is very transparent. This is but men, for whatever reason, can just say that. And people are like, oh, here, here's a check, whereas it's, I don't know, it's just different. So we really have to show up the way we look, in our confidence, the way we say things, approach things. Did

  Mark D. Williams  10:20

  that resonate with a lot of the other builders? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, every

  Morgan Molitor  10:23

  single one of us. And so again, it's like we're all level, different levels. Some are commercial, some are residential, some are builders, some are remodelers, and every percentage like so

  Mark D. Williams  10:33

  if that's the not the stereotype, because it's a truth, I guess a lot of truths come from stereotypes. But if that's the rule book that our clients are playing by what what was discussed as ways to combat that it's or what was the advice given? Well,

  Morgan Molitor  10:47

  the advice more so too, is like, it's okay, like, we're also CEOs of our company. We're also leading our company, and it is okay if we so don't apologize. So don't apologize, yeah, I see Yeah, don't be Yeah. I always say unapologetically, like, Don't remove the saris, always. And so I've been really trying to focus on that too, is always, don't have saris in anything. Or her emails could be one sentence, but that's most of Jamie's emails. Like his emails hardly even start with like, Hey, I hope you're doing well. Like Mine always start that way. And I mean, I want that personality to shine through too. But when you think about it, it's like, oh yeah, a male, even client, things like that, you're just like, Oh, yep, okay, better do it. And so it's more so just like that is okay. And we need to also remove the emotion from ourself and not get so beat up about it, or feel insecure about it, or feel less confident, you know. And just I feel like

  Mark D. Williams  11:39

  that message ties into what Meg must have shared about mom, and I correct me if I'm wrong, because I want to give you you're the mom, not me, but like I can relate to it. I think, from what I hear my wife say, who's a professional so may is nine. Simon and Tate are six and five, and I feel Melissa has had a lot of mom guilt while working. Oh yeah. And I feel like most moms that are professionals, that work go through this, and it's like, certainly not guilt for me. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I feel like women sort of judge themselves, Oh, for sure. And I'm not saying society doesn't contribute to that. It's all on our head, but the time, because, like, as a husband, I'm like, work. Don't work, you know, help at home, not help at home, like, whatever it takes. But like me, of course, I do what every husband does, we try to solve the problem. You know, my empathy ability is quite poor, yeah. And I really were like, we

  Morgan Molitor  12:26

  just want to vent. We don't need you to solve the problem. We just want you to, like, just listen for a second.

  Mark D. Williams  12:32

  So funny, so but I mean, is that kind of what Meg was talking about?

  Morgan Molitor  12:35

  Then, yes. And Meg actually went through she, like, had us do this live form where we found out, like, what our anxiety level was at. And then we went through and she shared, like, how to effectively, like, figure out your calendar and like, how to plan on your family things, your plan time with your spouse and your partner, make sure the things that are needed

  Mark D. Williams  12:56

  for everybody how to so give us some tips and tricks on that. What were some of the actionable items? Well,

  Morgan Molitor  13:00

  one of the things that keeps going through my mind, too is it's like, you ask someone what their priorities are, look at their calendar, and so that's one thing where I'm like, I do love to work, though that's also a little bit of my problem. Like that is my hobby, in a way, because, I mean, we have different things within our business, and so like, writing is a hobby of mine, but writing is also a part of my job. And so it's just been interesting because now I've just been looking at my calendar. Well, one Jamie and I never have day, nights, ever, ever. And so I actually said to my brother in law and sister in law. I'm like, let's rotate once a month. You watch the kid. Our kids, we go on a date. We'll watch your kids. You go on a date. And I'm like, this is mandatory. Like, we have to do this. And again, Jamie and I, we don't need, like, it isn't a conflict, I think. And so that's why we've never made it a priority. Because we, neither of us, like, need this time per se, because we're together often, and we're home bodies or home together, and we're a family unit a lot. So it doesn't we've never needed that, but just thinking about that, I'm like, No, he I need to make that a priority. This should be on my calendar if I say he is one of my priorities. And so just something as simple as that, just starting out once a month now we're doing and even Ethan, on our team, reminded me, like a date night can just be being at home, but sharing a show together and not being on your phone, or doing a game night together or something. And I was just like, Okay, this doesn't have to be

  Mark D. Williams  14:24

  that. It could be. It could be a walk. It could be, yeah, you know, whatever it might be,

  Morgan Molitor  14:28

  right? Like, I was always thinking Date Night has to be like, Oh, we go to dinner and then we just talk about work anyways, to add the kids, or wish we were somewhere else. So I was like, No, it can be simple things

  Mark D. Williams  14:38

  at the benefit of a date night is or just time away is it gives you a chance to reflect. A lot of times you might you're tired and you don't want to go, or it's you're exhausted, but then as soon as you're there, it's part of it is the I guess I use the analogy of running. No, not every day that you exercise feels great, yeah, but the days that you run when you don't want to run. Actually lead to your overall fitness. I think, I think, like date nights, not everyone is going to be a pinnacle. 10, you went saw a play, or you once saw a good movie, or you had an amazing dinner, but it's the habit of taking the time. Yes, I think that's the magic. Yeah. And it could be, to your point, it could be anything. I I'm a bit of a kind of an idealistic romantic, so I like these ideas. And sometimes the idea is too big and just appreciate it could be simple, like, Yeah, let's go on a walk. It doesn't have to be a grant. I tend to gravitate towards the grand gestures, yeah, where I think maybe just the time yeah is probably Yeah, exactly. Well, in the same thing

  Morgan Molitor  15:33

  with our kids, like we I felt like, oh, we do so much with our kids. But then I started to look at my calendar and think about lot of these things we're doing with our kids. Are running them to hockey practice, running them, just bringing them places, going to church. It's like we're not spending time with them. So that was another thing that I re evaluated on our calendar, is like, how are we spending intentional time with our kids? So like, last weekend, Jamie just took Beckham to the movie, and so just starting to map those things out for the whole year, not just so that's one thing Meg said, don't just look at the week. Look at and also we talked about this one time, but eat the frog. I started listening to that too. And I'm just like, Yes, don't just think of it the week of or the day of layout our whole year, specifically the quarters too. And be looking at those quarters to be like, do we have four day nights in here? Do we have a play date, at least with each of our kids solo, written down on the calendar, and that we're going to make sure it's on there, and nothing is going to be compromised with work because of it, because it's a time just passes and then,

  Mark D. Williams  16:34

  well, I think that one on one time is really special. Yeah, there was a local architect and H and they sent out an email yesterday that and they are doing really clever actually, idea. You have to pay for it, but you register, and you go to their studio, and they have a professional flower arranger. You get to arrange a flower set and a vase for Mother's Day. Yeah, and so I'm gonna take my daughter, so it'll be a one on one thing, but it's a win win. It's business development with an architect that I'd like to work with at the same time. It's something you can do with your daughter. I actually asked my wife first, like, Hey, do you want to do this together for Mother's Day? And she's like, No. I was like, Okay, well, I'm gonna take May. She's like, that's right, yeah. And so, yeah. Anyway, I think certain families do better with laissez faire. I'm a little bit more like you. I actually, I'm fine with laissez faire too, but I actually like to plan it out, right,

  Morgan Molitor  17:22

  or at least so it's there and it doesn't, you don't just forget it. Well, another one too is so C 2s fund days is what we call them. And we have one a quarter. And again, all of a sudden it hit me. I was like, Oh my gosh. Last year we missed one, and so I now planned, I think it was last week we just did it. I had a lady come over to my house. I invited the team over their spouses. We did yoga, we did Reiki, we did Ricky. Oh, let's talk about that later. It's energy work. Oh, okay, yep. So they send great energy into and they can do a little reading in there too. Okay, so, yeah, our whole team was like, Oh my gosh, Morgan is taking us to the dark side. I'm like, That's right, but through Jesus as well. And so, yeah, we did DIY pizzas and just hung out at home. So again, not this elaborate thing. And then I already planned out. I was like, Okay, there's a concert coming up in the park in Plymouth. You're all like, let's all go. We're gonna do they all want to come. They do, yeah, and that's something I guess I haven't shared too much with you, but we started these YouTube series over at construction of style, and I just had Kayla and Topher and Jamie and I chatting about because that's one thing I've realized through talking with a lot of colleagues, is our team shows up and they want to show up. So I just asked them, we just went a little bit on a deeper level, what is it that we do that makes you guys want to show up? And so what they say. I mean, there's a lot of things we do, but we're so family oriented with our team, and a lot of times we're way too like, there's moments right that I've vented you about, but like, frustrations or things that I'm like, Ah, but it's like, but at the end of the day, they feel the way they feel, and they show up the way they show up, because we're so generous with time and their priorities.

  Mark D. Williams  19:04

  I mean, they feel a part of they feel a part of it, right? They are part of it. Yes,

  Morgan Molitor  19:08

  yeah. I mean, and Jamie say time and time again, like, if we didn't have our team, like, we'd be okay, right? We'd just be doing a lot less. And so it's like we are creating jobs for them to have jobs. We're not creating jobs for them to make us richer so they can live the lifestyle they want to live. And so we try to firmly promote that and do that.

  Mark D. Williams  19:34

  This episode is brought to you by Pella windows and doors. I've used Pella for 21 years as the exclusive window company on every one of my builds, when people ask me who I trust for windows and doors, it's Pella every time. Their craftsmanship, their innovation, the top tier service, make them a no brainer for any custom home builder or designer who demand the best, whether you're designing something bold or building something with timeless elegance, Pella has you covered. They're also the only. Window company that has a lifetime warranty on all of their windows. I've gotten to know all their people at Pella corporate, as well as locally here at Pella Northland, I'm proud to call them our partners and our friends. Visit pella.com to learn more and connect with your local reps today. Also for more information, you can listen to episode one, where I interview their founders, as well as episode 109 where we talk about the innovation at Pella, I've been asking this question lately, so I'll ask you, what was the address of the home that you grew up in?

  Morgan Molitor  20:30

  Oh my gosh. 110, 4/7, Avenue, southeast frozen, Minnesota, 1535,

  Mark D. Williams  20:34

  shows drive Chaska. So my point is is most people, if they lived in a home for a period of time? Yeah, they remember their address. Oh my god.

  Morgan Molitor  20:43

  Remember my phone number? Two and 84632288218,

  Mark D. Williams  20:48

  numbers. My point in bringing it up is, I think one of the messages that I've been sort of excited to talk about lately is, as home builders across the United States don't lose sight of the fact that we that we're doing something really special and unique, yeah, in the sense that you're creating a home for people to live in. I don't care what strata, if you're building the $20 million house or a $20 Yeah, tent, yeah, whatever. Right, can't build a bird house, maybe, yeah? Well, that's not, I mean, this house for bird I mean, honestly, that works just that. It's a very special thing that we get to be a part of, man, and yes, we're talking about business and how to make more money and how to but you know, what do you do with that money? You know, if you had all your dreams come true, you know, I could only speak for myself. I can speak for others. But it's like, you want to work on really interesting projects that are creative with really great team. You want to do really well so you can not work as hard to spend more time with the with the people that you love and fail and honestly like you. I mean, I the days fly by. Yeah, like, I've never been bored in 21 years. Oh my gosh, ever No, there's always more to

  Morgan Molitor  21:52

  do. Every single day I pick up. I'm like, how, how is it already pick up, right?

  Mark D. Williams  21:56

  But do you remember back, like, in high school, or, like, you'd like, look at the wall. You're like,

  Morgan Molitor  22:00

  yes, all my past jobs, all my past jobs. Yeah. I'm like, Oh man, I just got here. Speaking of

  Mark D. Williams  22:06

  past jobs, I'm a shout out to Julie Hall. I said I worked one year in copier sales out of college, and Julie worked, she was in sales as well. I'm gonna have coffee with her in a couple weeks. I haven't seen her in 20 years. Oh my god, so, and she's still there. So I'm just really excited to see, like, you know, in she was a big at the time. I recall she was a big Iron Man athlete, well before I got into tries and some other stuff. And so I'm really excited to see if, like, she's kept up with it. But anyway, I just past worlds collide. And like, what are people passionate about? Yes, I don't know how I went there, but going back to build her this time, this time out was brought to you by the curious builder. What you know, the build heard. So what were people saying? Like, you know, last year, last time that you did it, you had, like, a zip line, you had a few things that sort of challenged your fears. What were some of the things that you did this

  Morgan Molitor  22:50

  year? Yeah, so this year, well, we added a day because that was feedback. People just felt like there wasn't enough time. So it was four days or three so it was three days before, so it was four but plus travel days this time. And so, yeah, so Sunday to Friday, so two travel days, and then and again. People were like, Oh my gosh, you need to add a day. And that was another day. So it's becoming, like a week, people that hadn't been before. Oh, I say, you know. And I was like, Isn't that funny? But like, they want more and more. And something Brad Levitt told me that I always think, is like, you want people leaving wanting more. So that's also

  Mark D. Williams  23:22

  so don't go too long. I think that's not only Brad Levitt. I think that's like any parent who has gone on vacation, yeah. That's true, yeah. But

  Morgan Molitor  23:29

  so yeah, and I would say it was definitely a different vibe or different crew, which was interesting. I had someone recently asked me, like, have you ever had anyone that you didn't jive with or conflict or whatever that has come to any of your conferences or summits. And I'm like, no never, because I think Your vibe attracts your tribe, and so we bring the right people there. But it definitely was different. But in a I wasn't sure if it was just because the the industry right now or what, but it was I felt more heavy and more deep, and so a lot of people were like we were talking about, and so it made me go and do research on, like, suicide rates in our industry, like that. What is it? Well, we are one of the top three industries that Yeah. And in some articles, there was a little bit of Yes, but some they were saying contractors are number one, I know. And I was, did they say? Why? My gosh, stress, yeah. And just, I think, being treated not like people that we talk about all the time, and humans and like the constant trying to live up to everyone's expectations, and it's like that is really taxing on you. And actually, Allie started her presentation with an example of someone that she knows that just got chewed alive by and I he must talk about it publicly, but by a client, and he left there on his way to go, like, nail a tree, to take his own life. And I was just like, oh, but he did. He turned the corner and someone had gotten in a car accident right there, so it like made him stop. He went home, he told his wife, and his wife just said, Okay, we're done. Like, right? We're done. We're like, this is not worth that was about to happen when she went into a little bit more detail, but I was like, we're all crying and just like, so I think her even opening up with such a personal story like that, and then her sharing her last year struggles, and then, yeah, it was just wild, like, people starting to share their stories. And, like, just this year, you know. And I don't want to speak for people there, but it was like, Whoa, and so. And then all of a sudden, I was like, wait, what? And then the next person, I was like, what? Like, around dinner, it just kept right, yeah, accelerating, yeah. And then we had someone else there that was like, I wouldn't be here. I lost my daughter, and she's the only reason why I would show up at a place like this. And I was like, Oh, why? Like, life, right? And yeah, it was just, it was very, yeah, just very deep and impactful. And so I forgot your original question, but Oh, what was different? Yeah. So I think what was different was, like those conversations, and we had a lot more, I don't want to say downtime, but like going to the beach together, and just like these conversations caring. And I

  Mark D. Williams  26:12

  think it goes back a little bit to your the comment we were talking about date night, and like grand gestures, and some of it's just time together, yes. And I think the thing that build her does really well, from what I can under, you know, here is like, yes, you have some classes in the morning where you're getting topics, and then those, I assume those topics, then are talked about for the day. And I think it's the individual connections, I mean, the intimacy of the group, the smaller group, I think, helps with that, right? You know, I've mentioned this before. We have the curse builder boot camp coming up in just a few weeks, yeah, in Zion National Park. And it's a little bit of a twist in the sense that, like, it's probably more fitness focused, wellness is a big part of my life. And so it's like, but I wanted, you know, people are getting off the airplane, they have to check in their phones. There's no phones, yeah, no alcohol, no digital devices, actually. So we decided that you can't have, like, GPS watches, yeah, for any of that stuff. Kind of go on caveman, yeah. And so we'll have a videographer there to video it all for, you know, for content and all that kind of stuff. But I want people there to be kind of free from all that. Yeah, and I think the wellness side of it is just not not being distracted, so people can connect on a deep way. And the group is largely men. It didn't have to be that way. But I feel like men aren't as good as opening up. I feel like as women, probably, I don't know if that's because, in as a generality, certainly some men are very good at empathy. But I think when you get them out of their environment, like going for a four hour hike, yes, I mean, you're walking in the woods, you're walking in the mountains, or whatever, like, when you can exercise and be like so, I mean, it becomes more it's a little bit like a car ride, yeah, if you're driving across the United States, yeah, some of your best conversations, if you think back, or like, these long, monotonous, boring car rides, yes, but like, they flew by because you just you filled the time with interesting conversations. Yeah, anyway, well,

  Morgan Molitor  27:49

  and honestly, I'm like, I because sometimes I don't love to say, like, you know, even, like, female retreat and we're treated and blah, blah, blah, because I'm like, You know what? We have different skill set that men also don't have, right? And you guys have things that we don't like. So some and talking about that, I'm like, I am always like, and I say this to Jamie, like I'm always checking in with him because I'm always so worried about his mental health, because he doesn't he's so quiet, he's so quiet, and he doesn't share too much. But there's been moments where I'm like, calling him, and I'm like, You need to answer every time I call you, because I'm like, nervous, like, and he's always like, Morgan, and I'm like, no, like, I will not take this lightly. And so have you ever, have you ever

  Mark D. Williams  28:32

  had the emergency conversation as a husband and wife? No, like, what? What, like, what constitute as an emergency? Oh, no, no, no. Maybe it's just me, but I think a lot of men can relate to this. I remember when I remember when I was first married, I don't remember, I assumed it was my wife, but I mean, just in general, I think I patterned this after my dad as well. Like, you know, to me, there's only two emergencies. One is involving my kids that I need to be there, so that's an emergency. Two is my you're bleeding out of your jugular, and my hand is the only hand on the planet that can stop it. Yeah, anything else is not an emergency. It might be urgent. It might be need my attention, but it's not an emergency, right? But if it is an emergency, like, I will go 150 miles an hour in the ditch and I will get there to do whatever. But you know what? It better be an emergency, because if it's not, it's gonna be one, yeah, and like, so the other day, you know, whatever, I was getting hammer dialed, you know, over and over. And as I picked up, and I was like, Is this an emergency? And they're like, and they want, and I was like, It either is or it isn't, because there's no shades of gray here, yeah, and it wasn't okay. And, but I've also, I've used that to explain that to clients. I was gonna say to you, I do because, yes, is water leaking in your roof an issue, absolutely. Is it an emergency? No, yeah, it's urgent. You should, I'm fine with you calling me, call our team, we'll get it fixed. It's not an emergency. Yeah, your house burning down. That's an emergency, yeah? But frankly, you should call 911, because I can't stop the house from burning down, right? So, like, I think part of is educating, and sometimes you can be kind of funny about it, right, right? And I think it's. Setting up the expectations of, you know, we're building a prototype like this has never been done. You know, your whether it's a remodel or a new home, you know, you've got architects, designers, you know, hundreds of trades partners that you're working with, unique clients, unique kids, you know, locations, weather, the variables are endless, right? And so the expectations, really, of what we're doing, need to be set on the front side that the reason we have a good reputation, the reason we do this is we're passionate about people. We want to get it right. It's not perfect, right? Anyone that's expects perfect, you're in for a really rude awakening, right? Because it's a prototype, right? You know my favorite analogy, and I've said it many times in the podcast, been a while, but it's like Ford f1 50 rolls off. You know what? 100,000 trucks a year. They have callbacks. They're in a factory. They're getting every single part machine, and they still have things that don't work. And no knock on it, but that's considered, quote, normal. How is, how is doing a one of a kind never been built before? Again, that's a prototype, yeah. And yet the expectations are, it's going to be perfect. Yeah, that's not realistic, yeah. And it comes up to you and I as though, as the as the the first ones in the door, as we're building a team to sort of Yeah, it's the betterment of the team. I often bring up these analogies with my clients to start seeing if they connect. A red flag for me is if they start reacting very negatively to that, that those lines of thinking, yeah, because that's telling me that they don't agree. Yeah, if they don't agree, this could be a major problem. Yeah.

  Morgan Molitor  31:27

  And you bring up those conversations like as you're literally

  Mark D. Williams  31:31

  just okay all the I mean, whenever I'm able to, sort of every time I talk to is this emergency? No, Mark. I just want to know what the pink color is? It an emergency? No, not, not quite like that. No. I mean, it's you can a lot of its delivery, right? You can say it in a funny way, like I'm trying to right, like you can make it, you know, because humor is probably my go to default, right? If I can make them laugh, it's usually a good sign that we can figure something out. Yeah, and yes. What I

  Morgan Molitor  31:58

  say constantly perception is reality. If I remembered anything from college, that was probably the only thing that my professor told me. And I'm like, every day, I'm like, to my team, like, we had a recent client that, you know, her view, like she would tell us every single day, like, well, for how much I paid, for how much I paid, and it's like, Whoa, yeah, I don't like how much you pay, you know. And I'm like, perceptions reality, you guys, perceptions, reality. I'm like, this is a lot of money to her. It might not be for that narrative is one of my least favorites. I know it's really hard, and it's like, when you get told that every single

  Mark D. Williams  32:31

  day, how about when it's inaccurate? I know they always think so. We had a client that kept saying a number that was, you know, multiple millions. But they also included land and landscaping and stuff that had nothing to do with us, land, mainly. And they they would keep saying, like, hey, this build was this, and we expect I'm, like, half that number isn't even me. So they keep saying it like, it's a package and like that. But they were really just winding themselves up, right? They were just getting themselves all worked up. And you go, like, here we go again. They're working themselves up. And, like, we understand, you know that, you know, this is, yeah, why we're here. That's why we're taking the call. This is why we're trying to solve the problem, right? And it's just like, you know? And honestly, I think it's a human issue. It's not a building issue, because, you know, my wife is in and, you know, medical and healthcare and, like, the same thing, and that, I would argue that's way more important, right? You're talking about your health, yeah, and, but the same thing persists that, you know, they, they perseverate on this thing and outs it is. And when people are out of control, they try to exert control on you. So if I'm out of control, I try to control you as a way to sort of bring order to the chaos, right? It's, I think, I'm not a psychologist, but I for sure, it's probably a term for this, yeah, should bring a psychologist on. Actually, that would be amazing. We'll call him Freud, and you will sit over in this scene. He'd be like, You guys both need therapy, and we'd both say, no problem. Let's start now. Yeah, put

  Morgan Molitor  33:56

  that in our schedule. I thought that's what the podcast was, yes, definitely. Is. That's what one another for, for sure. Oh,

  Mark D. Williams  34:03

  man. So anyway, it's, it's, it's interesting. You mentioned the on the build her Avenue, so you've got, you had to plan out three years. So, I mean, can you share what some of the plate? Is it locations or like? Because a lot of people don't understand how I mean, people want to go. One of the frustrations that I have is, do I don't event planning? Yeah, it is not for the faint of heart. No, it is a, it is a, it is a contract with failure, in the sense that, like, you do all this work with all this idea, at least with a marriage, yes, like, you know, you and your spouse are getting married, right? Whether someone comes to this wedding or not, yeah, that's on them, right? You might pay for it, but you're still getting married. You're still getting something out of this. Yeah, if you and I do all the and I do all the research and figure out where to go and line up food, and then you you have this whole big thing, we don't know if it's going to be successful to like, two weeks before,

  Morgan Molitor  34:49

  yeah, for sure, even two weeks after, once you reconcile,

  Mark D. Williams  34:55

  it's really everyone wants a great experience. Yeah, everyone wants that hospitality. And all the stuff. But it's hard, because if there's not coming early enough, on, it's really hard for us as planners to develop to deliver something that for sure meets our expectations, because we do want something to be really special. Yeah. How do you navigate that? Ian,

  Morgan Molitor  35:15

  it's the constant battle, I would say so with build her when we signed up for our first one, he there was an opening in this house that we got. It was actually an architect. So this we host in Costa Rica. It was an architect in California. It would accommodate all the people who wanted to fit the food, everything. So it was perfect location, all of it. And then they had a cancelation and an opening, so we were able to get in within a year. And so normally he was like, we get booked out at least two years in advance. So we're like, we'll book out the next three years. It was terrifying, because that means booking out, you have to put down payments down. And so that's what we did, and we so we did last year this year, and then we'll do next year. And then right now, we're actually in conversations with other people as well, because we're trying to decide, like, where to go, yeah, do we keep having it there just because it's tried and true? We know it, we know we're not going to fail. However, then with repeat people, they I'm sure don't want to keep going back to the same I probably would

  Mark D. Williams  36:12

  with people, but it's always kind of it's also for you and I, innovating and getting creative is, is part of what makes us right, interested, to do things

  Morgan Molitor  36:20

  different, right for sure. And you know, we're a part of the home space too, so it's like, we do want to explore different properties, spaces, locations. And so we're solid there till next year. And so now we're looking at one other place in Tulum, debating whether, you know, we fly out there to look at the venue before we have it there. We actually have a call with them next week, but same thing is going to happen, like, we're going to need a book two or three times so, and then we already have an agreement for this other place. So right now things are, yeah, we're figuring that out. So it's like, that's kind of what we have to do, is like the hard part,

  Mark D. Williams  36:55

  you know, there's the financial aspect of it, of event planning, right? I mean, sure, it sounds great to book all this stuff, but you're front loading all of this with investment. I think, right. I can only speak for myself, the sauna camp and boot camp will be, we won't lose money, but we won't really make money on it either. We haven't been able for the wellness side of it. We haven't been able to figure out brands that sort of want to be, not that they don't want to be associated with it, but like the ROI on, like, if we're bringing builders together, how do brands look at wellness associated with their company? I think there's a great opportunity here. I wish more brands would see it. It's a little bit it's a little bit further down the road in terms of, like, your return on your investment, because your mental health. And I think my pitch to them, to these companies would be, if companies see you prioritizing their health, their wellness, their well being, they're going to associate that not only with the values of your company in a positive light, but also how you view and support them, right? That bond, that loyalty, is going to be very strong. So I think there's a really good it's just that they have a hard a hard a lot of times, you and I speak to people that that, you know, they might be their marketing directors, or it's like they have to go back up the company right to sort of prove in the question they understand. And it becomes a little bit more difficult. How have you, have you been able to navigate that? So

  Morgan Molitor  38:15

  something that I actually just realized this last time, because it was the first time a couple Anderson and Rockwell actually came to see what it was about, and to check it out. And honestly, just to come to monitor and like, feel it out, like, what is this? What are these guys doing? What is this movement here? And because of their feedback? So it was instrumental that they came. I mean, it was just one person, but just to hear, because one thing I that I learned is, like, these brands actually do spend a lot of money giving back to builders and the trades in the industry to better themselves. So it hit me like phrasing it a little bit differently, because what it looks like at Costa Rica is like, Oh, we're out on these boats and partying and all that, which is not the case. They look at it like a certification, yes. And so then I'll send it, you know, I'm like, all of these brands, I was like, Oh my gosh, they will give you a cut back. You know, sometimes on what you spend to better yourself, so where you want to spend that, and it's almost like, I don't want to say it right off, but sometimes you'll invoice them back. I don't want to name these brands, but yeah, but I'm like, Oh my gosh. It just hit me. I was like, I have four brands that actually do that, that we one of the brands we spent, you know, doing k bits. And so then it hit me like, Oh my gosh. But also to the builder, like, hey, talk to the brands that you guys work with to see if they give a cut back to and a lot of it goes back to education, right? They'll say, like, Well,

  Mark D. Williams  39:46

  we had one where, well, I can say it because there was public but like, so builder trend, they, they're sponsoring one of our attendees because they have a relationship, yeah. So one of the ways around it was, is, like, would this builder? Would. They like to come, yeah, will you help? Was a business development thing that they could see, like, okay, that makes sense as a builder, that we want to show, yeah, it'd be no different than ford f1 50 giving somebody a truck and saying, Hey, that thank you for all that you do for us. This is kind of a perfect so I think there's, there's different ways. Yeah, I think you've taught just leading by example, you know, just getting creative in how we do our pitches, right?

  Morgan Molitor  40:24

  Well, in the education aspect, too. And because I'm like, it is no different than them, you know, giving back to their employees and making sure that they're doing things right, like taking mental health days, taking vacation days, like things like that. And the reason why they're anything is because of us, right, builders and trades and all of that. So it's like they want to make sure that we all are staying in check, that we're all taking care of ourselves. And so also, when that conversation was happening, it just was like a light bulb went off. Oh, wow. Like, this is different than saying, Hey, do you want to sponsor this wellness retreat? What's like, no do you want to help elevate these builders that pour X, Y, you know, of revenue into your brand, to make sure that they stay in check? And it's starting to bring up those stats that we discussed and learned as an industry as a whole to these brands, because a lot of them don't know, like I didn't know, and to educate them on how we need to shift this industry to make it mentally stable. Like people don't want to get into this industry. And I'll call you out right before we're talking about and we're like, what would we tell people getting in the industry? And it's like, ah, and it's like, every time I say that to my husband, he's like, run, quit. And I'm like, that's most builders. And I'm like, How sad. Like, if we want to truly shift the industry, we have to be able to show up and like, like, we do love it, right? But like, it's hard. And I'm so tired of saying, like, it's hard, it's not for the faint of heart. Like, you need to be so mentally strong, not physically. Like, yes, physically for what we do. But like, this is a different mental game than any other industry out there, and it's like, this is so important. So I think going to brands with that and having those conversations, really, they'll be like, it's yes,

  Mark D. Williams  42:09

  I think it reminds me a little bit of when you do something the first time people don't really get to see it. I think that's what's been so powerful about social media, video, podcasting, speaking about it so that, because when people, if you can't understand something, you delete it, you check out, yeah. How do you make it so you can understand what it is, what's your your messaging, your branding. Is it simple, right? If you're going to sell a house, if you are going to sell a car, whatever you're doing, yeah? How simple can you make your right, your branding? Yeah, and I think the first year, correct me if I'm wrong, but because you've mentioned to me, so now we have videography and photography of Sonic camp. So I would anticipate next year is going to be a little bit easier for us to do it, because we will. The other thing too is not everything has to kind of check out and make money, right? You know, sometimes you believe in something so strongly that, I mean, it can't cost you a ton of money, hopefully, because it has to be sustainable, you have to get from somewhere else. But if it's something you believe in strongly enough, you can find ways to do it right and community to support it. Yeah. And if no one wants to be there and it's not making any money, then you probably shouldn't do it right, yeah? Well,

  Morgan Molitor  43:13

  yeah. And I'm like, we're transparent about that. Build her first year, we didn't make money. We lost money, yeah? And, but we, all three of us, like, know what we're doing. We believe in this. We know it's gonna make money, and we're in it for the long haul, so we're not but yes, if we did it five years and we're still losing money, apply. And I

  Mark D. Williams  43:31

  don't like the narrative where people are like, making money is not a bad thing, right? Like, profit is not a dirty word, right? And I mean, we should say this to our clients too, right? You want us to make money on your home, and I'll tell you why. Because 10 years we have to warranty your homes in Minnesota for 10 years a decade. It's one of the longest in the country, to my knowledge. And so you want us here so we can service you, so we have, I mean, if someone is just a, you know, fly in, fly out. Like, do you trust that? Right? Like you want a reputable business, yeah, you wouldn't drive a prototype car down the road with your family in it, right? Like, when you get a car accident, is it gonna fall apart? I mean, that's that's dangerous, right? And so I think you do. That's why you see, you know, there's that adage, the rich get richer and the poor get poor. But you see companies that do very well, and they continue to do very well, they've got a great legacy right now. That doesn't mean you can't have an upstart company that has good brand. I mean, there's certainly places there for it. I'm just saying, it. I'm just saying that people are looking and people are watching how you operate, yeah, and what you value, yeah? And if there's a commonality between those values, I think doing this stuff, showing that you care about others, yeah, maybe helps you in a different way. Maybe it's not, maybe this one thing doesn't make you money, yeah, but the industry says, You know what we like that, what you're doing, leading change and helping other people besides and they you know you have, you know your resilience to reform is a way that you give back. You talked about that in episode seven. You know, helping people that are incarcerated in prison. How do you get them back? And so we won't talk a ton about that right now, but basically, everyone seems to be passionate about. Or other things outside of business. It could be their family. It could be, you know, the joy collaborative is coming up here may 29 so we're helping support Mark and his mission to help kids with life limiting disabilities. There's just so many places that we can give back. And as builders, you know, and remodelers and people in the industry, there's a lot of places we can do that. And so I think just look around and ask, you'd be surprised at how many places. Yeah, could use some help. Oh my

  Morgan Molitor  45:24

  gosh, for sure. Yeah.

  Mark D. Williams  45:32

  This episode is brought to you by adaptive. If you're still chasing checks and juggling spreadsheets, it's time to upgrade. Adaptive is revolutionizing how builders get paid with AI powered bill pay, automated draws, one click payments and built in lien waivers, Faster Payments, fewer headaches and total visibility. Adaptive takes care of the back end chaos so you can focus on what you do best. Building. We've used adaptive for two and a half years, and trust them to keep our projects moving and payments flowing. Learn more at Adaptive dot build and simplify the Pay Process today. For more information, you can also listen to episode 10 and episode 15, switching gears just a little bit to contractor coalition coming up in Omaha, looking back now, so it's been three years, actually, right now is May of three years ago that we first met.

  Morgan Molitor  46:20

  Hey, contractors coalition feels like 20. I know,

  Mark D. Williams  46:24

  right. So what? What have you? Let's talk a little bit of what's changed. We'll talk specifically about the ones coming up this year, but let's go kind of, since we're talking about, kind of the iteration of boot camp, sauna camp, build her, and how they're the sort of, these are new things that are going to be here for a while, but we're in the infancy stages at this point, contractor coalition is, it's a three year old. Yeah, it can walk and talk a little bit. So it's in dog years. So it's a lot older. The first time that you guys did it, Brad Nick and you Gosh, what was that like now, looking back in hindsight, because now brands that want to be a part of it are like, I'll never, or mutual friend Mike from em, they'll never be a contractor coalition, yeah, without me being a part of it, because it's that powerful, yeah? But the first time, when you had your first contractor coalition, it didn't exist, yeah? What was it like pitching brands? Because people know what it is. Now, everyone wants to be

  Morgan Molitor  47:13

  part of it, yeah? I oh gosh. I'm like, Well, I'm trying to think of like, the timing too, because so I was on Jamie and I were on Brad Levitt's podcast, and I want to say it was, like, in this spring, like we put that together, like, within six months, like the conference, yeah, because it was in the spring, we're on his podcast. And then by the fall, we had our first one in Asheville. So Oh,

  Mark D. Williams  47:40

  is the fall one? I thought it was spring. I thought it was in May. Well, it doesn't matter, yeah, but maybe I'm wrong.

  Morgan Molitor  47:46

  I don't know. Wasn't it? It was in the spring. I

  Mark D. Williams  47:50

  thought so, but maybe I don't know. I just know because I brought I just know because I looked the other day. I have a picture of my daughter because I brought her down there with my sister in law, and because she's obsessed with Dolly Parton. So we did. I bought may down there, which was kind of this fun, yeah, whole thing at Nashville,

  Morgan Molitor  48:04

  yeah, regardless the timing, it was under a year. And I just remember thinking, oh my gosh, we are putting a wedding together in under a year, and we had to pull it off like we had it. And I remember because Brad's like, you know, I was doing this other event. He came in for that, and then he was like, we need to be doing this for contractors. And we said this on the podcast, and then we chatted online, and we're like, let's do it. And he's a yes person, I'm a yes person. And then he's like, let's bring in Nick from NS builders. And I was like, perfect. And then I remember talking to them the first time too, and being like, I was thinking, oh, we'll charge 200 bucks a ticket. And then those guys were like, We're gonna charge 10 grand a ticket. And I was like, You guys are out of your mind. We're gonna pull off a wedding, plus charge that, plus get brand sponsors. And they, of course, were confident, so that's a perfect example, like, for male versus female, there is no way. And they were so confident, like they had no hesitation, no doubt. And I was like, whoa. Like, it took me probably a few weeks. Still, sometimes I'm like, wait, what? And they had that thing sold out in no time. And so I was like, wow. Like, again, knowing your worth showing up, saying, right, no, this is because they were like, think about our combined knowledge, how much money we've paid. We're going to share all this. We're going to open it up, be transparent, open up our books, like everything. What's

  Mark D. Williams  49:20

  interesting about that? Going back to the very beginning now, we talk about our collaboration over competition. I mean, so many people, you know, and maybe it's just our world, everybody says that, right? And so we talked about that a little bit before, you know, but at that time, was kind of radical,

  Morgan Molitor  49:36

  yeah, I would say, I just thought, live my life that way. But I would definitely say with like Brad and Nick? Well,

  Mark D. Williams  49:41

  Brad and Brad is like, up there saying, like, Hey, I've got four builders in Phoenix. I'm sharing my swan construction statement. I'm showing my contracts like everything and every single thing. And I think really owning that message and leading by example, right? You know that one event, but three into three of you, it wasn't just Brad, it was Nick too, and yourself. Yeah. And really, now the community that keeps on growing and fostering this open, authentic thing, like we have the art locally, and now in a few other states, they're curious collective Yeah? And I had someone come up to me the other day and they said, We haven't ever been around someone that is as open as you, and we found so much value in the collectives, because you just lead with everything. Yeah? And I don't even know, I'm just thank you, yeah. And I was like, Thank you, yeah, yeah, because, and you realize that there's work for everybody. For sure, we're just trying to find people that you can connect with. Again, going back to how intimate a home is, yeah, we want the best builders, the best remodelers, the best designers, the best architects. With the right client, not every client is right for every person, and I feel like so much of my job lately has been matchmaker. I've got three design contracts right now where we're interviewing two architects, two designers, and it's really as I get to know the client, like really figuring out who do I think that they'd be that it might Yes, I want to make sure that if I'm a, if I'm a cruise belt captain, yeah, I want to get across the ocean where everyone likes each other. Everyone has a good time. We land there. We don't want the Titanic. Yeah, no one wants the Titanic. And we're

  Morgan Molitor  51:13

  all gonna live better, right? Like our day to day. And it's like, again, if we're all doing that for one another, I'm like, you know, we do it with some of our competitors too, at the same level as us. Of like, you know what this I mean, I do it with, I could say J Cath, you know, there's been often times where they look at something and they're like, it would be their job if they're like, You know what? I think this would be better fit for you. And they send it on over and vice versa. We had a client now, right now that we had done their bathroom for a few years ago. Now they're doing their kitchen, you know, and it's like, and that's okay, like, there is I'm like, I would much rather, like, we're working with the right people. And so, yeah, that's the whole summit. Is just like being that way. And I'm so glad they did say that price point, because then very quickly I realized, like, oh my gosh, this event is costing us 150 grand. Like, we need to pay for the event, so had we not charged what we did, like, we would have been hurting, you know, right? So then, yeah, yeah, early, I remember I called you. I've said

  Mark D. Williams  52:09

  this a number of times in the podcast, but I remember calling it because I didn't know you. Oh yeah, yeah. And I

  Morgan Molitor  52:14

  was like, the top Builder of the Year, oh my god. I was, I was like, Oh my God, how do I sell him? I don't know. Mark,

  Mark D. Williams  52:21

  you closed it down hard. You're closing Do you remember what you said? Yes. I said, You'll

  Morgan Molitor  52:26

  get your money back within the first hour, first hour, first hour, yeah, yeah. And I was like, Dang me to say that though, oh, really? Because he's like, he will, and I'm so confident. I'm like, okay, I can do this. I can see. But that

  Mark D. Williams  52:36

  goes back to your earlier comment about the This is why team is so good. And why have men and women together work so well. Is that messaging? But you delivered it. But Brad giving you the compass? No, this is and even like that price point you just shared is super cool, yeah, and, but that was right. I remember because my wife was like, Hey, you should check out this contractor coalition. I feel like you're at a point, your inflection point your career, where you could grow and do some different things. And I think this would help get you there. Of course, my wife was right, and I regretting it. Yeah, probably. And I love you, honey. And so she with all the other ideas. Coalition loves you too. I would love to bring her sometime. That would be a real I know that could actually happen. May come, come on. I'll bring the boys next time. She's like, No, that is not my best, yes, but, but I called you and you said, yeah, you'll I said this a lot of money. I don't learn by sitting and just listening to someone speak, right? And you're like, you won't. It's a small setting, yeah, and there's lots of interactions. You can ask lots of questions, which is hilarious because you did, yeah, I'd like, known for that when I brought other people. I'm like, Oh, yeah. Like, penskes were on and like, Tinker sleazy. And like, Who's that guy asking questions the front row all

  Morgan Molitor  53:39

  the time. That was great. That definitely made everyone feel more at ease and be like, Okay, this is informal. That's the whole point of why we wanted only 30 people in the room. Is so that everyone can leave implementing because

  Mark D. Williams  53:52

  so many big conferences seem like there's and there's value to them. I'm not saying that the big conference is invaluable. I mean, like we had CBS A's conference here, you know, last September, and it was great lots of builders and the breakouts, makes so much sense. Having those small breakouts is really wise. But I think the genius of the contractor coalition is the small, intimate groups, the you know you're getting, you're drinking through a firehose. I mean, the amount of information is, I mean, it took me about two to three coalitions before I'm like, Okay, now, now I think I could probably teach some of this stuff, because I've heard it so many times. But, like, so many times. But it obviously changes as the times change. But the first time you're just like, wow, this is a lot of water coming at me. Second time, you're like, Okay, now I'm it's like anything you just you need a little practice. Yes,

  Morgan Molitor  54:32

  Ian, anyone you know, like you have been in the building industry for a long time. We've had many other builders, like second, third generation, long time, and they have all learned something. We have new Builders, New remodelers. And so I think that's another thing, is a lot of people have the thought or perspective like, Oh, I know that, or they're going to teach things I already know. And it's like, no, like, that is not I think

  Mark D. Williams  54:56

  it's the refinement of ideas you have. I think it's and I've never been, I don't. My MBA. But I think there's the path where you get an undergrad, and then you go get your MBA. Then there's people that get the underground, go work for a decade, and then go get their MBA. That MBA is still a certificate. You got your MBA, but the knowledge that that second person has is way greater than the first person, because you could apply it. I think having, let's say, for me, being now, I'm 21 but at the time it was I'd been in business for 18 or 19 years, whatever it was, and all these examples, all these times I've failed. I've failed so many times. And to see like, Oh, that was the answer, right? And, oh man, this would avoided that. And I think you can apply it so much quicker, for sure. Of course, you can't rewrite your life without a time machine. But I look at some of the younger builders that were there that are, like, years two and years three. Oh, man, what I want to have killed. So Jamie says all this type of leg up and ladder. And I think Kevin Arnold from Ka design, so he and I become friends and like, Yeah, him and Abby. I mean, they're like, every time I see him, I'm like, it's, you know, I don't even know how they look like they're 25 they might be they're so young and like, that's amazing. And, but they're so like, are like, Ben Garvin, who's part of our collective and he's coming to Omaha his second one fact, yeah, so anyway, he was, I love that people are prioritizing their education and saying that. And I think that's the value of the the amount, like, if you the amount of money, I mean, I, at this point now, I've spent well over six figures on my quote education over the last three, four years, and Brad and Nick and yourself all included, including time and all that kind of stuff. I think having something that costs having some skin in the game is helpful, because it shows that there's something worthwhile there, for sure. And I think people that you might have to take a few stepping stones to get in there, because I'm not, you know, not saying that. It's not a significant investment, right? But it's like saying, if you could put $10,000 you know, in Bitcoin 10 years ago, compared to what? Yeah. I mean, it's that kind of, right,

  Morgan Molitor  56:53

  if you're starting a business, 10 grand, and you will get everything you need to start your company. I mean, that's like, and you're going to be ready to launch and do a very successful. I had a great group of people. I can't

  Mark D. Williams  57:02

  think of a single thing that would be a force multiplier to a greater degree. Yeah. And this isn't, it's not, it's more than it's not even sales. It's, you've lived, I've lived it. Yeah, I've gone to four of them right out of six. And it's like, you know. So it's like, you know, at this point they might, you might need a restraining order. No. And so I think I just anyway this wasn't meant to be what it's becoming, which is a pitch for it, but just speaking honestly about like, what it's become, and how you've grown it, yeah, well,

  Morgan Molitor  57:27

  and the people so going back to your like, from then to now, I'm like, I think that's the biggest thing, is like, the group of people that I've met from putting this on that have shown up, that are now in my life, that I consider like yourself, like Truly you are my, one of my top three people, right? That's like, on speed dial for, like, personal, professional, like, hard things. And so it's like that. And then these other groups you know that have come all from the summit. I'm like, I, I am a different person from three years ago, just by now, having new people in my life. And we were just kind of talking about that before the podcast. But I'm like, I was talking to someone before I walked in the office, and they're bringing up some scarcity mindset things. And I was just like, I had a pause because I'm like, wow, it's been forever. It's been a long time since, not forever, not that long ago, actually. But I'm just like, wow, I haven't been around this. And I'm like, is it because I'm so surrounded now by this, like rock star, you know, group of people that are my besties, that I'm like, they only keep me moving forward and thinking outside the box and always staying positive. So I'm just like, Oh, that's such a bummer that you're living in that space. I'm like, Oh,

  Mark D. Williams  58:37

  I think you're right. I think when people, I think when people think you have to keep everything a secret, and there's for the collectives, I've invited, once, I've invited certain people into the collectives, and we have a builder, a collective, a design collective, and architect collective here locally in Minnesota, and they've been great. Love it. There are a few of, let's say, the top performers, that kind of apex predators, that feel I don't know if it's they feel threatened. I don't know if they feel like they have the secret sauce. It's hard to understand that mentality, because it's just not one that I really relate to. Yeah, and so I like more out of curiosity, I like to ask them questions. So there's one person I'm thinking of right now that I won't name, and I just was asking them, like, well, what is it? And they're like, well, we've spent decades developing, you know what our thing is? And, yeah, I'm like, Well, I mean, if it's true, if is it patented, is it like some crazy thing that no one else has? Like, you have the formula to Coca Cola. Like, there's only four people in the world that know this thing. Then, like, Sure, okay, Coca Cola, you should probably not just hand that out I get. But if we're talking about customer relations. We're talking about how to interact with clients like what you can always learn more, yeah. And what I've been really humbled by is people like a Don Forsman, who is a builder, remodeler here in Minnesota. He's a legend in the community. He comes. He sold this company, yeah. He still comes. Yeah. So the. And said, well, like, why? Yeah, I want to give back. I want to, I want to be there to help other builders, like, now that you're talking about, and I you're talking about Michael Jordan coming back, yeah, to play basketball, you know, high schoolers. Yeah, in this analogy is really cool. And he just wants to be like, You know what? This is amazing. I wish this existed when I was younger. And if I can give back and be a part of this. And I don't know what other aspirations he may have, yeah, after he's on the tail end of his buyout of his company, but like, who doesn't respect? Don right? And he's and I just there's other people like that, and sometimes people will surprise you, and you're like, Wow, that's so cool that they want to and there is, I'm sure they're learning something too. But I just love that these types of community events and education, things like your your tribe, attract your vibe, attracts your tribe, as you always say, and it just keeps getting tighter and tighter. And so it becomes surprising to you and I, when we feel, when we are around people, right, that don't think that yeah, and it's almost like, it's like you're looking under a rock, like, well, this is, what is, how does this? What's going on here? Let's dig into this, what? Why don't you think I

  Morgan Molitor  1:01:02

  know well, and I said to you, I was like, honestly, it kind of made me, like, sick in my stomach a little bit because it, I don't know if it was like, I was sad for them, or if I was just like, Man, this is where our industry's at. Like, I thought we had evolved a little bit more of living in this space. And so, yeah, I'm just like, I'm just so I'm grateful that we're putting on the contractor coalition, because I'm like, just to share, I cannot even imagine where my life would be right now. I don't even know if I'd still be in the industry. Honestly, I've

  Mark D. Williams  1:01:34

  said that before too, that I feel like, for me specifically, the it's not just the podcast, but now the curious builder brand. I have six or seven like platforms off of it. But it started with the podcast. I was burned out. After 18 years of building like I had a couple difficult clients, and I was just I was fried. This is reinvigorated. I'm more excited about building now, right? I'm ready to go. I got Robocop enhancements. I'm ready to go back to battle, and I'm excited again, yeah, but it's the community aspect, right? It's like, you've been refreshed. It's a time out when

  Morgan Molitor  1:02:00

  we all cheer each other on no matter what we're doing. Or actually, recent example too, is I was talking to Allie from integral, and we were chatting about it was something build her related, but something came up and someone was doing something similar. And I just made a comment. I was joking, you know, a little bit, but I was like, oh, we'll do better than that. And immediately she was like, No, Morgan, we will go over there and we will root them on. We will make sure that they're successful and that they're doing just as good as that we're doing. And I was like, Oh, my God. Like, thank you for also, like, again, I'm around people that keep you in check, that make sure that you are staying like, cheering everyone on, you know, and that there is no someone's better than the other, like, we're on, yeah, and the name, they had to build her name, but something different. So I was looking for a URL. I was like, Oh, who is this? And I was like, joking, but also I was like, oh, okay, yeah. I was like, we got this, and she's like, No, we all got this together. And I was like, thank you. And I literally saw the time.

  Mark D. Williams  1:03:01

  I think there's the nuance, right? Like in any team sport, you can have competition within the same team, yeah, but the team camaraderie is still there, yes, only just because was a couple years ago since the bulls documentary came out. Right? There's no question that, like Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan and everyone else on that roster like they there's this famous story of Steve Kerr Michael Jordan punched him. He punched him back, but he respected him for it. Yeah, I'm not saying in this analogy, we should punch each other, but, like, the point is, like their team, but that camaraderie of being a little feisty and each other level up, yeah, yeah. And I think Michael's point of view in that was simply he wanted to know he could go into battle and trust those people. And by showing you had a little spunk, a little fire, versus just laying down, right? You know, sometimes people push you to see if you push back. I mean, that goes back to the client thing. I've had clients where there I had a client one time that tried to push back on price. I said, No, this is what it is. There's another builder we were competing against that went way lower, yeah. And he said, I'm gonna go with you. Yeah. And I somehow it came out later. But he said the main reason why it was like that other builder dropped so much like, it made me feel uneasy. Like, right, wait a minute. Like, what changed? Were you being dishonest? Was that because, like, there's nothing, yeah, it's the same products. How could that happen? Like, something's up? Yeah? And, you know, sometimes clients, a lot of our clients, are savvy, sometimes we sometimes they test us on purpose. Sometimes it's they're just using instincts. But I've heard it said before, if you don't ask for it, you won't get it. So the hard part about trying to be in the client pleasing business is, you know, they ask us, we're off. We often negotiate against ourselves. In our mind. I had a client one time who asked recently, you know, you know what I when I match this other builders, you know, price, yeah. And it was a open book. Was a margin, yeah? And I said, I can't, I mean, we're delivering. You want? You want what we deliver? You want to work with us? Yeah? But you want me to do it at his price, yeah, but they're not delivering the same thing I'm delivering. So that's not a fair thing to ask, yeah? And that's what I said. And he goes, you're right. That's amazing. And so we found common ground, yeah? And they went with us, because at the end of the day, he wanted to work with us, right? He just felt, and sometimes people feel like, I. But they need to negotiate to feel good about something,

  Morgan Molitor  1:05:02

  right? And they don't understand how the pricing works, because not all pricing is as transparent. It's

  Mark D. Williams  1:05:08

  just, it's a narrative. It's explaining. It's trying to get into. You know, I think the smartest, I think the best jobs, and even the smartest people, are ones that they ask for you to maybe do something for them, or they ask for a level of service, yeah? But I think if the first thing you come into and say, you go to the bottom, you say, I would like you to lower your price, yeah, you've sort of set this odd relationship dynamic that you're going to be in a combative state the whole time, yeah, in the best builds I've ever had, where they're happy, we're happy everyone. The best builds, yeah, best experience for everybody is when that doesn't happen, right? And it takes, it takes a a well rounded and just a very good client, yeah? Because it's not that all builders should just get whatever they want. I'm not saying that, yeah. I'm just saying that you should be paid for what you're worth. And if you're delivering something that is really valuable, you should be paid for that, right? And I think that's where branding, storytelling, like, if we if we can't explain to them what we're doing, or if they can't, better yet, if they can't see what we're doing, yeah, then it makes price the only thing that it's just black and white, they just see a price, right? And, you know, I think when you buy, let's say luxury items or Ian, you know, price is important, but that's not why you're buying the thing, right? You know, I don't think people buy if people are gonna buy a Ferrari or a Rolex watch or some high end goods or go first class to fly to Europe, but like, you're going after it for the experience, yeah, the price is already the price, right? We'd be better off as an industry to talk about what we're doing in the hospitality that we're bringing and the experience that you'll have during it, yes, and they can decide whether they want that or not, right? I'm not saying it's for everyone. Yeah, I've never flown first class. Yeah, I would love to. I just that's not upgraded for free. I have not I don't fly as much as other people. Oh,

  Morgan Molitor  1:07:00

  man, you travel a lot. Though. I just got an email today that I got upgrade on Sunday to first class for free. I was like, Really, thanks. Thanks, Delta.

  Mark D. Williams  1:07:10

  I'll have to off to work on my game. Yeah, what the heck? Well,

  Morgan Molitor  1:07:12

  didn't even request it either. Well,

  Mark D. Williams  1:07:14

  hey, shocker, we used up an hour pretty quick. Oh, what? Let's go with maybe one thing you're excited for for the remainder of the year? Is there anything?

  Morgan Molitor  1:07:22

  Oh my gosh, like the year just started, but also it's 2027,

  Mark D. Williams  1:07:26

  almost May. You know what's really crazy? What? That's only a month and a half away from half?

  Morgan Molitor  1:07:32

  I know. I actually thought the other day. I was like, looking at q2 goals and things. I was like, what q2 is over. I'm like, I need to hit these now, oh, gosh, what I I'm, I don't know, are you

  Mark D. Williams  1:07:46

  more of a week? Are you looking at the day, the week, the month? Like, what do you what? Like?

  Morgan Molitor  1:07:51

  I look at quarters for pretty heavily, and then I look at months, and then I have different things that I want to hit every month. But, yeah, I don't know I mix. I'm in a, like, weird spot, I guess, where I'm, like, really excited about things. But then also, I think I also have this balance where I, like, work with my husband, and if he's some way that feels on me, like he's really burnt out right now and tired, and, like, tired of the same role hamster wheel. And so I have a little bit of that going on, but I'm excited, like, for contractor coalition coming up. I'm suit, like I always say, the gangs back together again. I'm excited for the summer, and just to spend time with my kids and not have this, like, get out the door, you know, and get them from pick up. Yeah, I'll just be nice to chill. And of course, cool

  Mark D. Williams  1:08:33

  party I saw, I saw the video posted where they're all jumping in the pool, where it was pretty cold, yeah,

  Morgan Molitor  1:08:37

  30 degrees. And I was like, the water was 30 degrees. We started a new tradition. Well, how could the water be 30 degrees? It'd be frozen. It was. Well, the icebergs had sold the icebergs once they turned the jets on. Oh, so there was so literally, was 30, yeah, so we're gonna always jump in it when it's pool opening day. Yeah. But then, don't worry, I got it up to like 90 within 48 hours. But, yeah, but yeah. So I'm excited. We're doing working on a lot of different things. We're working on ramping up our YouTube channel and just getting different content, like you said, out on the educational side. And we have some great clients right now that are making our lives really easy, so that's always helpful, yeah, but yeah, a few projects upcoming that I'm excited for that, like under understand the design assignment. Want to put in some, you know, local products that I'm pumped to do. But, yeah, that's true. I know. I love it. Oh, you, what are you excited for? I was thinking about that

  Mark D. Williams  1:09:31

  when I asked the question. I was thinking I did an episode in January, right after the New Year. I kind of became obsessed with this Japanese principle called misogy, or misogyny. Oh yeah. It's just like two things, yeah, so I wanted to try to, so my one thing for the business is Misa whose, which is this first spectrum that we've been doing. And so it's just like, basically every Thursday have three hours blocked off only to do Misa host, okay? And so it's like, you know, it's architect meetings, it's design meetings. We had one right when you came in, because today's Thursday we're recording. And. Yeah, and so it's just like, every single week I'm doing something to push that ball. And so I'm very focused my branding, the website, the messaging. I mean, really, my 14 month calendar from right now is all centered around that one home. That's amazing. And so that's been really, I'm excited. It's kind of nice, the simplicity of it, like I know this one thing, no, I my clients. Obviously, I have to pay attention. To pay attention to too. But like, it's just a real I know that if I focus really strongly on that, that everything else in my goals and my three year, five year, 10 year plan are all sort of linked into this kind of nucleus, yeah. And then personally, I picked one for the business and one for personal. The other one is, you know, training for this race I'm doing in August. So it's like, you know, just being really diligent on training. And I've got like, five races that lead up to it. So it's really, that's the personal and that's the and just really two, those are it That's amazing, trying to keep some simplicity, but, yeah, not sure. I'm doing a great job of it,

  Morgan Molitor  1:10:53

  but that's hard. That is, like, Train for that. I don't know how people just early, early

  Mark D. Williams  1:10:56

  morning. So that's actually that brings the most clarity. You're up early, you do your meditation and writing and all that stuff. Yeah, for me, it's exercising community, because you can talk and like, this morning was biking, so, you know, there's four guys and just talking about whatever. That's true. Good point. That's more like dogs at a dog park going for a run. It just happened to be chasing a ball in the same direction. Oh my gosh, wow. Thank you very much for coming on. Thank you for having me. Yeah, we'll have everything in the show notes. Thanks again for tuning in. For tuning into the curious builder podcast. We are on Mondays for our interviews with builders, architects and designers across the country, and Thursdays for Q and A thanks again for tuning in. We've had the podcast for two and a half, almost three years now, and we have a consulting page, one to one consulting you can book my time for one hour. Perhaps you've heard a guess where you like one of the topics. Maybe you want an introduction to some of the guests that I've had on. Perhaps you want to talk about branding or marketing or anything that we've covered on the podcast over the last two and a half years. You can book a time at cures builder podcast.com thanks for tuning in to curious builder podcast. If you like this episode, do us a favor, share it with three other business owners. The best way that we can spread what we're doing is by word of mouth, and with your help, we can continue to help other curious builders expand their business. Please share it with your friends. Like and review online, and thanks again for tuning in. You.

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