Episode 131 - From Rejection to Revolution: The Architects Who Changed Minnesota’s Home Scene Forever
#131 | Jen Veralle and Sara Whicher | AIA Homes by Architects Tour | The Architects Who Changed Minnesota’s Home Scene Forever
In this episode of The Curious Builder Podcast, host Mark Williams chats with Jen Veralle and Sarah Whicher about the behind-the-scenes journey of launching the AIA Minnesota Homes by Architects tour, now celebrating its 18th year. They dive into how the tour started, what makes it unique, the challenges and successes they've experienced along the way, and how the event has fostered community, education, and a love for residential architecture. With stories from the early days, insights about building a successful home tour, and a look at how the tour continues to evolve, this episode is an inspiring peek into the power of collaboration and creativity in the architecture community.
Listen to the full episode:
About Jen Veralle & Sara Whicher
Jen Veralle is an event strategist, writer, and advocate for healthy social experiences that decentralize alcohol. After two decades of alcohol use and eight years alcohol-free, she now leads conversations and communities that explore sobriety, wellness, and social connection. Jen is the founder of Sparktrack and Zero Proof Collective, where she creates inclusive, zero-proof experiences for leaders and changemakers. She also serves on the board of Dissonance, promoting mental health and recovery through the arts.
Sara Whicher navigates design using her superpowers of sensitivity, intuition and hand drawing. A natural curiosity and love of listening to stories guide her powerful interpretation of a homeowner’s story with a twist.
Resources:
Visit Homes by Architects Tour’s Website
Visit Homes by Architects Tour’s Instagram
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Jen Veralle 00:00
well, I think you're exactly right. It's just a long game, right? And that's a lot of the argument we might have had to make in the beginning, too. And one of the things I think AIA does well is help follow up after the tour. I know they have meetings and sessions for the architects after to like, look at the number of visitors like compare all of that across the board. So I think there's a good sharing of knowledge.
Mark D. Williams 00:31
Taking the careers go to podcast. We had Jen and Sarah in and it was really great. So the AIA Minnesota homes by architecture has been going on 18 years now, and as it comes up here on the 27th of September, I wanted to bring on some local ambassadors and fans of architecture here in Minnesota, talk about what it is to help start a tour, to run a tour, and have it be successful without further ado. Here is Jen and Sarah. Welcome to curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host today, I have two very special guests. I've got Jen varale and Sarah Witcher from chisel architecture. Sarah and Marcy are on episode 125, just a handful episodes ago. Welcome back to the studio, Sarah. Thank you. Great to be here, or as you're known amongst just me, Willie mittens. So we're here today to talk about the AIA Minnesota homes by architect tour. It's coming up on its 18th year. It's coming up at the end of this month, the 27th and 28th of September. And I was just really curious. I mean, I've been in the I've had, you know, homes, in the Parade of Homes and the artisan homes. My entire career as a builder, my parents did the Parade of Homes. You know, back when it started way, way back in actually, Minnesota has the whole the oldest tour in the country. It's 75 years old. Is the Parade of Homes. That's how old it is. Wow. So our we are very well conditioned to do parades. You talked to like a friend of mine, Brad Levitt, down in Arizona, they have no parade tour in Arizona, and they have a massive population, so it takes a lot of organization, a lot of buy in from the community. And of course, you know the builders and or architects or designers or whichever entity is putting it on. And so I thought we'd just start a little bit with you guys can introduce yourselves a little bit about what you do. Bit about what you do, and then we'll dive into, kind of where, how you start a tour, like how you run a tour. I'm just very interested in it, and we'll just kind of go from there. So Sarah, why don't you
Sara Whicher 02:13
start first? Let's see Sarah Witcher, five foot seven,
Mark D. Williams 02:19
feisty rower.
Sara Whicher 02:21
I entered into the architecture field. Later in life, I was on a path to work in the arts, so I worked at the Walker Art Center. I worked at Northrop Auditorium. Then I kind of flipped and started to work at the Busch Artist Fellowship Program, where we were giving money to artists. And at that time, my husband and I had our first child, and when she was born, I just thought, you know, I've always wanted to go to architecture school, so now's the time. So went back to architecture school later in life, and just loved it. Loved it so much. And a lot of my mentors and professors were at the University of Minnesota and worked at Sala architects. So and I wanted to work at Sala architects, so I kept banging on the door. Hello, hello. And took me a year, but then I got in and worked there for, I think it was 1315, years. Oh, that long, wow. Yeah, long, long time. Had a wonderful time, and then worked for another firm, and was there for about three years, and then decided to, with Marcy Townsend, open up our own firm, so we've we are in our seventh year. Amazing.
Mark D. Williams 03:37
So congratulations. Seven years is no joke. Thank you, yeah. Well, excellent. Well, how about you?
Jen Veralle 03:43
Jen, Oh, yeah. So Jen, viral, I had come to architecture by way of marketing. Actually had always had an interest in architecture as a child, and watched my dad build things, and actually, in seventh grade, was very interested in architecture, and I had a professor who said, you belong in the home at class. You know, it's all all men here. That was my first kind of experience with wanting to be involved in architecture and sort of being shut down. So years later, in my late 20s, came to work for the American Institute of Architects, and that was a really awesome solution for my love of architecture and also marketing. So I was in that role as the communications director for about 10 years, and through that time, was really an advocate for residential architecture. I just felt like the connection to home, the home environment and the stories that the homeowners would tell you know after living in their homes is just so inspiring. So as part of the residential committee, that's how Sarah and I came together, and years later, fast forward, after leaving the American Institute of Architects, I had become kind of my own solo entrepreneur, and when chisel was opening their doors seven years ago, Sarah knocked, knocked, knock, knocked. And was like, I was like, Oh my gosh, it's so amazing, and about time that you venture out on your own. So I stepped in to support in a marketing role, and I've been with the firm ever since,
Mark D. Williams 05:11
amazing. Now, when did you first meet? You recall what year that was, or if
Jen Veralle 05:15
that would have been probably two
Sara Whicher 05:17
years, two years before the tour? Yes. So 2005
Mark D. Williams 05:20
2005 Yeah, interesting. So let's talk a little bit about starting.
Sara Whicher 05:27
What, what? Yeah, amazing.
Mark D. Williams 05:29
Wow, at that, it's kind of, I mean, 18 years have passed. So like going back to the beginning, there is no architect tour. So in Minnesota, there is a builder tour, just the parade homes, actually, at that time, the artisan tour had not been born yet. I don't know if the luxury home tour had been at that time, probably not. So what made you decide to start? Was it you specifically? Was it the industry like, how did your involvement with the kind of the startup of this architecture led tour?
Jen Veralle 05:58
Yeah, well, I will say, from the residential committee liaison at AI Minnesota, that the ideas kept bubbling up. And there was this, you know, look at the Parade of Homes all the time, and the architects would be like, Oh, that's just we don't necessarily fit with that model, nor would we put one of our homes on the parade given the model it was. So there was always this sense of wanting to have something of their own. And then I'll let Sarah tell the rest of the story of the players involved at the time.
Sara Whicher 06:27
Yeah, so we So Mark nessett was the chairman of the residential committee, and he and Dale mulfinger had traveled down to Texas, and I can't remember what city they went to but they came back and were talking about this architects tour. And so I remember that I'm going to zoom forward. Dale was telling me about this at one of the the Sala open house. And he was talking talking about this tour, showing me pictures of some of the things that they had seen. And I said, Oh my God, I've always been interested in the parade and, you know, all the tours, and because we have such a healthy tour environment here. And so Dale just said, Great, I'm kind of Here you go. Here's the first meeting. And he was there, but that's when I met Jen. So I showed up for that first meeting, and we just kind of hit the ground running. Yeah, and
Jen Veralle 07:23
it took years. It wasn't yours one and done. It was three years in the making, from probably the initial discussion to the actual first tour in 2008 Yup.
Mark D. Williams 07:32
I mean, one of the easy is the wrong word, but one of the benefits of being a solo patrur like Jen and I, you have a partner, is that, you know, you look in the mirror and you're like, do I want to do this? You're like, yeah. Do this? You're like, yep. And then you do it kind of nice, yeah. You know, partnerships get a little bit harder because you have another person, you start getting more and more people involved. And now, if you represent a community, I can only imagine sort of how difficult it might be to start something talk us a little bit through at this point. Basically the AIA is having, you kind of being passed to, sort of, you know, present ideas, I'm guessing, and sort of provide some leadership and present come back, do they have a committee? Do they have a board? How does this start from idea? It takes three years before the first tour. Let's talk about starting like, how do you start?
Jen Veralle 08:19
Yeah, well, I think your observation of it needing a buy in from a very large community is true. So the AIA, at that time, one of the largest chapters in the country. So Ian, yeah, Minnesota, 2000 plus members that get all of their CE from, you know, the organization, and a small percentage of that as residential architects. So the larger percentage that we would represent was commercial. And when you look at a budget and how much you know you're putting toward each kind of group within that architect community, the residential architect was a small number. So that's why we had to really advocate and push forward and make a lot of kind of case studies for what we were seeing. And at the time, the magazines were starting to come to us, we want to cover more. Like Midwest home at the time was like, you know, we want to do more with you. We've got all of this. And they actually were quite the visionaries for it too, and provided, like a printed, glossy publication to kind of, you know, take away the idea that we would have to produce the whole tour in its entirety. So we had some interesting partners that were interested in supporting that. And so that was part of the challenge. Is going in front of not only the board, which was 20 some individuals at the time that were a small percentage of residential architects, mostly larger commercial firms. And then, you know, making the case study that even awareness and just the residential piece of it would draw interest in just general commercial architecture in the community itself
Mark D. Williams 09:55
is there. There's just a little tangent, but more my curiosity, how many architects are. License in Minnesota, is it still 2000 or is it more? Any idea? I That's a
Jen Veralle 10:03
good question. Yeah, I have no idea, having stepped away from AIA for a while.
Mark D. Williams 10:07
So okay, so we'll have to follow up on that. I don't have a fact check on this podcast
Mark D. Williams 10:17
immediately, so let's just call it a couple 1000. Any idea, percent wise, how many are residential versus commercial?
Jen Veralle 10:24
Well, no. And I would say also, like, you know, the size of commercial firms. You know, if you looked at the number of firms, that's one thing, but then the other number is individual architects within those two firms. I don't know, 25% or less. It's smaller
Mark D. Williams 10:39
for residential. Where I'm going with this question is a to identify how many architects are in the residential space. We've spoken to other architects around the country about how, well we won't go that's a whole nother episode. But really, just trying to understand you have a smaller bucket, because, let's just say, at the time, in 2000 and what was it eight that you started? Let's just say you accounted for 10% I don't know. Does that seem similar? Yeah, your budget is a lot smaller because you represent a smaller group. And so you're trying to go to them and say, Hey, we need 10,000 20,000 50,000 whatever the number was, whatever the Ask was. And they're like, Okay, well, we have other budgeting needs as well. And so I'm just trying to get an idea, because most tours, there's a lion's share, like, by comparison, the builders. Like they're all builders, sure. And so, yeah, why wouldn't you? And so I was just trying to drop some comparisons there, yeah,
Jen Veralle 11:27
no, for sure. And the other pieces that the commercial firms often, you know, with the AIA Minnesota Honor Awards, would get recognition. And there were certain things that commercial architects, you know, received from the organization, but it felt like the residential was just, there was just more interest from the public on that side of it.
Mark D. Williams 11:47
See, I think you caught it on there, because, I mean, there's a huge interest in just the consumer. And I correct me, I have not asked this question to architects, but if I was to draw a Venn diagram, I'll do it for you now. Of three of three areas, we've got designers, we've got architects and we've got builders. Every market is going to be different. Across the country. I'm biased because I'm a builder. You're somewhat biased because you're architects, and designers aren't here, so they're underrepresented. But based on this is my perception. You tell me if you think this tracks or not. I think that in the world we live in right now, with social media being extremely strong, say, the last six to seven years, and everyone is sort of interested in a home, because most people have a home, or they're interested in, like remodeling, or they want to make it, they're always constantly look, you look at the proliferation of HGTV over the last two decades, and just in general, people's gravitating towards all forms of anything that has to do with the home. I feel that designers are gaining more market share over architects and builders only from this standpoint, because it seems more attainable of regardless of where you factor in on whether you can afford a new home or hire an architect to build a new home, a designer could be I'm going to do new pillows, I'm going to decorate a room I'm going to remodel so it seems more approachable to the masses. Where I'm going with this is that people drive the business. You guys in 2008 identified that the public was very interested in residential architecture. That's why it took off. And I feel like with those groups, I think right now, we're in this melding pot where we see architects and designers and builders all coming together way more synergistically than I've been told in the past. And I think a lot of it has to do because that's what the public is wanting and expecting and seeing. Do you think, what do you what hits home there?
Sara Whicher 13:30
That's interesting. I yeah, I think you're right. I mean, you see a lot of the kind of the design, build and everything is under one roof. I do think that that traditional method of having the architect, the contractor and the client is still very much alive.
Mark D. Williams 13:45
Oh, I agree with that. Yeah. Like, for instance, I've never done it where it is a design build. I was mainly speaking to, like the average person, if they're scrolling through a magazine or an ad, like they can relate to, like an image, or to, hey, I could I would like that. I want to consume that. Yeah, whether it's a home tour, just because you come through a home through a home tour doesn't mean you can build. I mean, every builder will tell you that you have to quickly identify when people come through the tour who are real leads and who are not. And I've always my mom was a designer, my dad was a builder, and I was always taught to be very hospital to anybody that's come through just but there's also only so many time in the day, and we are a for profit business. When people are coming into the door like you're quickly trying to identify who wants to build a home, no different than what's when they're coming through the tour of the, you know, homes by architects. Tour like, who? Who needs an architect? Pick Me. Pick me. Like, that's the whole point.
Jen Veralle 14:33
And I think everyone has a home, right? And the other thing that comes to mind is we try to appease the commercial side of the architect community by having, like, open, you know, when projects were revealed that were commercial in the community, and there just wasn't that much interest because it's a more B to C versus B to B, just that distinction is just different. So, yeah, I
Mark D. Williams 14:57
think there's a lot of passion when it's so personal. Yeah. Yeah, for sure, one of the compliment, I think that I think the rest of not the world, but I feel like our industry is catching up on. I feel like arc architects in general, in my opinion, are better storytellers and are better at capturing the people's interest through images. I feel like now, over the last 510, years, designers and builders have caught up because they're finally understanding how to use it. But if you look back, like, you know, early on, like print publications were coming to you, and you look, I've always been, I didn't. I was too immature in my career to understand this. But like, you know, when I used to first build a house, I'd take 100 photos and I'd dump all 100 photos on, you know, they'd be empty houses, no furniture. Like, just, hey, here's I built a house. Yeah, look what I did. Because, like, you know, and I was, that was, you know, 20 years ago, so I was a different builder than it, but I, you know, now I have a whole nother appreciate, I think architects are way better at brand and storytelling, and I become obsessed with that over the last couple of years, because, you know, you go to most of the publications and most of the entries, and it's, you know, in, you know, Sarah or, sorry, Jen, you're in, you know, writing, copywriting, right? Like, the storytelling, how you connect with buyers, is super critical. And that story, it's like there would be this one great image in a story, and people really get into the story. And like, you go to a, you know, your website, Sarah, and you'll have, like, one or 234, images, but not 100 because you kind of want to leave something for them. You want to call the action. You want them to say, Hey, I love this, you know, ABC house. And I'd love to the dragon. I'd love to know more about the dragon plan. You know, could I sit down with you to see it? And that was, I just feel like your field and your industry was either taught that, or you You're far ahead of where the average builder is and where the designers, that's my observation. I don't know if that, if you've seen that when you look at print ads, or when you see stories from other people that you're like, Oh man, you know, I think the architecture field does a really good job of that. I guess. Is my observation? Nice?
Sara Whicher 16:52
Well, Jen does, well, does all the website Jen and Kevin? Well, yeah, kudos to Jen and Kevin.
Jen Veralle 17:00
Just thinking about the way that storytelling, you know, appears on the website and with chisel on all their projects, it is to create curiosity and an avenue in and make it accessible. And I think you know, by not showing everything you're telling you know your consumer, that you can create your own custom home. And it's your story that we want to elevate. And you know, it's not like, you know, 100 pictures from a project that a builder or someone has done where, you know your consumer is calling and saying, I want exactly that. So it's just, it's yeah, it's all custom, and it feels like storytelling,
Mark D. Williams 17:36
yeah. So going back, we kind of took us on a little detour there. Thank you for that detour. So we're back in 2008 it's this three year period. And just because I want to talk about a bunch of other things, we would spend so much time here. So you what was that like? What? What are you going to the board with? What do you what was your major hurdles? Was it funding? Was it consensus? Was it demographics like, how far do you go? Price range like, how do you establish it all seems very common. You know now you know what it is. But back then, how did you give shape to this? You know, you wanted a tour. Dale said, Hey, here's the baton. Go make it happen. What were those? Give us the short version on the three years here to make it happen.
Jen Veralle 18:12
I'll start with the first that comes to mind is fairness across the board. Anytime you put or you have to select a few homes to be on the tour is so, like, is it representative of the entire population? So we had models within AIA for, like, Honor Awards, we've had juries, and you know that we wanted the projects to meet a certain criteria, and that was a huge part of what the obstacles were in the beginning, because we were like, you know, how do we assess that what we're putting out there meets the high standards and communicates that architects have all this training, and this is how you work with an architect. So there is a huge reason to also educate the public. So it was that education that became like, how are we going to do that? And then the other piece of, how are we going to be fair and like, you know, allow certain homes in, but maybe have to say no to others that might not have been that criteria.
Mark D. Williams 19:11
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Sara Whicher 20:40
this fall. They'll be eight, oh, 17 now,
Mark D. Williams 20:45
and how many submitted
Jen Veralle 20:47
good question, I don't know.
Sara Whicher 20:48
Yeah, we don't know that, yeah, but one dropped out. We do know that it was 18, yeah, but we don't know that. We don't know.
Mark D. Williams 20:56
I mean, more than 1820, 3040,
Jen Veralle 20:58
or Yeah. Well, the first year? Do we have 28 the very first so we had, like, a backlog, yeah, for three years, everyone was like, when can we submit? So I don't really think we turned
Sara Whicher 21:09
we didn't turn anyone down that first year, but we did have a jury. Yeah, we brought people in to to look at the floor plans and look at the photos, look at the submissions, and so very formal and yeah.
Jen Veralle 21:22
And then we mapped everything out, you know, making sure we had representation as much as we could from all around the Twin Cities, things like that. Yeah. And we had to make the case that we would get a core number of homes, you know, on them, to
Mark D. Williams 21:33
make it viable. Right, 100% right? Gotta hit critical mass. Otherwise, it's, I've been a part of that. I mean, yeah, when, just as a contrast, just because it's what I can speak to, like the artisan Home Tour, when it home tour when it started, I think I was year two or three when it started, and or maybe one year one. Doesn't matter. But like, you need 1213, to be operational. And you know, from an entry fee, like what they charge the builder, or what they charge the architects, you know, looking at, you know, your one weekend, and you know, your fees, from my point of view, seem very low. Oh my gosh, very
Jen Veralle 22:03
low. 50 and it was $50 $50 Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 22:07
okay, maybe someone on your team should have talked about economics, because what
Jen Veralle 22:10
else were like sponsors. We can get the sponsor, we
Sara Whicher 22:12
can get the sponsor. Then
Jen Veralle 22:14
we had to sort of prove out, you know, that sponsors were interested, like, you know, Marvin, some of the big ones were, like, 100% yes. So once we got those yeses, there was a lot of confidence that, yeah, we were celebrating behind
Mark D. Williams 22:28
the seeds. That's amazing. Yeah, that's, I'm one. It's also, you know, value. I mean, like, anything, you know, as the price comes up. So do expectations, like, where do you market, you know, where do you put the money? How do you advertise it, you know? And I think when people know what to look or, if you I have some people that I know that are like, you know, every single year they're like, we're going to the homes by architecture, and they'll say they're normal things. Like, it's unique, it's different, all the things that you would expect, right? And like, it depends on what you're looking for, right? I always say that you need a healthy ecosystem, just like the ocean. You need little plankton. We need tuna. We need great white sharks. We need whales, we need sea horses. We need diversity. Yeah, we're just gonna talk about the ocean for us. But like, same with, like, you know, the Yeah, you just need a whole scale. And there's kind of a place for all of them depending on what your niche is, because people are so different on what they want. And so anyway, just being a fan of architecture in general, and just loving, you know, good work, it's like, great. I want to see this too, right? You know what? I've actually never been able to make the a tour. This will be the first year I make it really, yeah, I've always either been out of town or I didn't even know it was around. And it would be like, it's one weekend. I'm like, I'm gone that weekend. It's one weekend. Yeah, that is kind of a problem for me. It's like, one weekend is like, really isolation to like, you better save
Jen Veralle 23:38
the date, right? Not even a Thursday or Friday, all right, literally, Saturday, Sunday, and it's over.
Sara Whicher 23:43
It's over fast. So you get to go this year. I'm gonna go this year. Have you mapped out your I
Mark D. Williams 23:47
have not your well, we'll help you.
Jen Veralle 23:49
Yeah, number eight, I'll
Mark D. Williams 23:53
bring the kids you already met, Tate, who's downstairs, so maybe I'll bring my cheap wool again. Okay, so you launch it in year one. You had 818, the first year, 2828 Oh, wow. I thought you made deferred some of
Sara Whicher 24:04
them. And it was from, if I like, if we think about the spread, it was Medina to was, it was, yeah, and then I can't remember up north, it was
Mark D. Williams 24:14
Ali Awad, by the way, great year to start a tour. Yeah, and
Sara Whicher 24:18
Egan and Ian, yeah, we were so we had that right zone.
Mark D. Williams 24:21
It was 1008 just right sometimes,
Jen Veralle 24:24
no, luckily, we had it all locked in. People was
Mark D. Williams 24:27
because October is when it crashed, yeah? So they had the tour. Everyone is happy, and then wheels came off the bus. Thanks a lot. Yeah, all those leads. So, yeah. So let's talk about that. How, how did the first couple years go? Well, what were some lessons learned? What didn't go well? I was like, you know, right now, we're doing a series called failure. Losers are winners. And I was fine that you learn more from losing true. What are some things that you that early on did not work and you cut it, and what are some things that are still there today that you're like, oh, man, that that worked then, and it still works
Jen Veralle 24:58
now. I would say just because we had. Three years of a runway to get it right. We were meticulous about all the details. I mean, we had signage made, we had set up, we had good communications. We did a lot right, I think right from the get go, that is still like in place today. And this is the first year chisel will have a home on the tour. And we're like seeing all of this now from the lens from the user point of view. Yeah. So a lot of things we did really well we did. Yeah. Do you have any,
Sara Whicher 25:27
I don't remember anything that we kind of pulled out, other
Jen Veralle 25:31
than the surprises of where people start. They like to start at home. Number one,
Sara Whicher 25:35
do they really Yeah, we do. We work their way through just thought
Jen Veralle 25:39
people would start kind of where
Mark D. Williams 25:40
the closest go. But, yeah, so, just so how does that change your number pattern? Do you start like in the city, because you have higher demographics?
Jen Veralle 25:48
Really, we just needed to be prepared with the staffing and then also the booties. Remember, we didn't
Sara Whicher 25:53
have the booties was a problem for us. Well, the other thing that was a big thing that we I don't know how we thought about it, but how we rethought about it, but was the single ticket sale so you could pay 10, I think it was $10 to get into one home. And we had, it was Charles Stinson home over by Cedar Lake that just went as a single home visit, as a single home visit, it went bonkers, and we ran out of money. Remember, we didn't have enough change. This is before Venmo, this just before tap to pay. I mean, we get over here with some cash,
Mark D. Williams 26:29
because you could just say, hey, we only take,
Sara Whicher 26:32
yeah, we didn't have, well, you could have, you purchased your tickets, right? Or you could come they
Jen Veralle 26:38
were mailed to you, yeah, if you purchased them, yeah, well, and we also didn't have MapQuest, Google Maps, any of that. So Sarah, she had a navigator. I did not. Her mom was always there with the printed maps and the Hudson map books or what, yeah, but I know, what does she use?
Sara Whicher 26:53
No, my mother, yeah, my mom had some. My mother always drove me a
Jen Veralle 26:56
row number.
Mark D. Williams 26:58
You told her where to go, chauffeur. I like that. It was
Sara Whicher 27:00
so nice. So kind of her different time, different totally different time.
Mark D. Williams 27:07
So throughout the years now. So what were some significant milestones that sort of happened, either from recognition, or did you ever have other states that kind of say, Oh, wow, we want to start this. Like, how many states, when you started would have had a homes by architecture, and how many, just as a general idea, do you think there are now in the country?
Jen Veralle 27:25
Well, I would say right. Mark nessett was the first one that kind of was doing his research in the country. And at the national level, there is a residential architect committee, and so that's where he was kind of getting all the Intel and the conversations and the tours that were happening around the country. I don't personally remember how many he would have went to, but, I mean, we weren't the first, but that model for the one in Texas, Texas, yeah, that he looked at, that we drew a lot of insight from, but I don't know how far that's went.
Sara Whicher 27:55
I don't know either. That's a good question.
Mark D. Williams 27:57
That's the follow up interview with national AIA, okay, just mainly curious from perspective. I mean, I don't know that. I don't know what for builders, so it's not, I guess it
Sara Whicher 28:06
right. One of the big things that happened that year was because Jen and I had to go to the board quite often to ask for money give them updates. Here's where we
Mark D. Williams 28:17
were charged more than $50
Jen Veralle 28:21
Oh, like, Well, no, that was literally
Mark D. Williams 28:23
the, think about that 50 times 20.
Jen Veralle 28:26
Ian, our residential architects, with anything, because they have to, like, staff and do all the other
Mark D. Williams 28:31
Yeah, so you just wanted it for the tour. The totally makes sense branding state, yeah, I get
Sara Whicher 28:35
that. But we went to the board quite a bit, and always were a little frightened about what they were going to say and and I don't think that they thought it was going to go, although we had some good cheerleaders on that board, you did have advocates, yeah. And at the end of that first year tour, I think we kind of crushed we crushed it. And we had a big we had a big number there at the end, we had actually made money,
Mark D. Williams 29:04
for sure, and, oh, from ticket sales. You mean, yeah,
Jen Veralle 29:06
and media attention. I mean, AIA for commercial really wasn't like, we weren't highlighting commercial projects that won or were award winning. We weren't really doing anything in the media. And we had all the major TV stations come out to be on site and talk about it. And I think some of the commercial architects were just like, Oh, wow. This is really great. Yeah, yeah, it was
Mark D. Williams 29:27
cool. Look at this little child just grow all by itself. I know, yeah, that's amazing. What as you've sort of progressed, like, what do you hear from the people that come through? Like, what stands out in terms of, like, when people come like, especially those early years, like, was there a hunger? Was it the same crowd that you saw at the parade in the artisan? Was it different? Like, speak a little bit to the people that are showing up to these
Sara Whicher 29:53
Well, really, people came from all over the place. It was interesting, because I do remember this one couple from St Louis, and they come up every year. Uh, to the tour, but people from all over, they all because they had to pay, yeah, all over the country, they have to pay. They had to pay to come to the tour, which at that point was that different with the parade, because you didn't have to pay for the
Mark D. Williams 30:14
parade. You only have to pay for, like, a dream home. It goes to a charity, that's right, and those like, five bucks, yeah, yeah, it still is. That goes to a housing foundation that helps, you know, all kinds of wonderful things, and then the artisan has, you can do single ticket or the tour ticket. So that's also per entry, that's more expensive.
Sara Whicher 30:31
Yeah, people just seem to, because I had gone a lot on a lot of the tours prior to the homes by architects tour, people just seem to really slow down. Architects and the staff were always in the homes, and the AIA representation was there as well. But people seem to slow down and ask a lot of questions, why did they do this? Why did the homeowner do this? You know, it was this nice connection about why did these people who went through this whole process choose to do this. This is so interesting,
Mark D. Williams 31:05
almost like a guided museum visit, like, go paint this way. Yeah? Why? Yeah. And that's when you sit, when you articulate it that way. That's what I'm thinking of, like you're giving me an art tour,
Sara Whicher 31:16
yeah? And, you know, the plans are there, and, you know, with the architecture firm, and they could pull the plans out and show people, you know how the what happened. This is what the architecture firms do.
Mark D. Williams 31:28
So it was just going back to education,
Jen Veralle 31:31
yes, yeah, right. And I would say people would come year after year after year, because the process of working with an architect can be longer they want to talk with the architects if they're thinking about building like a forever home, they may, you know, have lived in a few different places, and they're really serious about building new and working with an architect, so that's a different process. But yeah, many people repeat every year, even if they've already had a home built by an architect, and just go because they love design.
Mark D. Williams 32:00
I mean, you see the same, not the same people, but the same level of curiosity. Hey, I want to see a home, or I'm interested in this, or I ask a question about that, and it's just, it's one when people are very open about what they're interested in, and so you can sort of react to it. It did from a managing flow that's always tricky. You know, I've been part of homes where you have 1000 people in a day, and it's very challenging, or multiple 1000s of people in a day. I mean, obviously you can't talk to that many people. It's kind of overwhelming. You're like a sardine, and you're sardine General mushering A little sardines through your tank can, right? So how have you found that architects and staff have sort of helped modulate the people that are interested in want the storytelling, but there's a lot of people, because obviously there's only a handful of people in they can get more attention,
Sara Whicher 32:47
more time. Yeah, the, I don't know, that's an interesting question. I mean, I can, I can speak to it now from the home that we have on the tour, cherry mash, modern and the story, the story about this couple we have really marketed, and it is a very interesting story to tell. And they, well, they're not going to be there, so that's another thing. I'm kind of going off on a tangent, but we talked a lot about who was going to be in the home when the tour was going on, and at first we weren't going to have the homeowners there, but then we let them be there. And it ended up to be a great thing to have the homeowners there. They would be sitting there. I remember some of them just sitting in their homes, and they could just answer questions as people walked by. But that that turned out to be a really interesting component to the tour,
Jen Veralle 33:39
yeah, and the homes are lived in, which I think some you know, spec homes or models maybe don't have that same vibe. So people just are curious about the way other people live. And I think, you know, even I just got a note from Anne Mayhew, she's the chair of the tour committee, and she was saying that in the last couple years they added a small projects showcase. So this is like spaces that are 600 feet and less that someone, a client, started just with a bathroom remodel or kitchen remodel and built trust with the architect, and now are doing more. So I think it's also reflective of Mark, like you were saying earlier, just the access to these things, like, you don't have to build the whole house even. And this showcase, I think, has been going for two years now, has become another way to create some interest and access.
Mark D. Williams 34:29
You know, how early on did you have virtual options? Was that born out of covid, or was that before as well?
Jen Veralle 34:36
Yes, there's a whole yeah chapter that Anne shared about the pandemic, but I I'd have to look at the details. No worries. You want me to
Mark D. Williams 34:43
check? Yeah, I mean, I'm just, mainly just interested. I mean, it's most tours. I mean, again, the only thing I can compare to is, like the home builders types of tours. I mean, you know, whether it's Matterport or whether you're selling it, you have the plans. I never like to do that personally, because it's like, I the whole goal for me. Personally, is to interact with you on a personal level, like even all my marketing. For the longest time, my marketing goal was I used to not. I'd market a lot more now than I ever did before, but I used to never do a full page ad unless there was a call to action, like come to my tour home next. Like people are top of mind awareness. If it was June artisan tour, I'd put an ad in May and say, in 30 days, is there? Oh, yeah, that's right, there's a tour coming up. Oh, I should. So that's because the whole goal is, if I can get them into the front door in my home, and I could actually have a couple minutes of your time, that is going to be, by far my best chance to have an impression upon you and have a connection. Because people, I do think people, on a base level, we want to connect with people, whether it's architecture, design, whatever it is, even like the how people were drawn to your homeowners, having a story people, I'm sure, remember people's stories about, you know, because people are eccentric too, like sometimes very colorful people. You know, sometimes we design like, that person would be great in the home. And sometimes you're like, oh, that person would not be good in the home.
Jen Veralle 36:04
It's so dependent. So I do have a little update. Virtual tour began during covid, the pandemic, and then each tour home was scanned with Matterport, and they created, like a digital tour of the home. And they've continued to offer that, and they are saying, and is saying, that they really like the idea that for people who are unable to go in person or miss a weekend, that you can still experience it virtually. So it's about access. And I think the AIA overall has been really good with moving and changing with media and the virtual tour and now a smaller project showcase tour. So I just see them continuing to do that.
Mark D. Williams 36:42
I mean, that's evolving.
Sara Whicher 36:44
Yeah, they really do, for
Jen Veralle 36:47
a for a very large organization with a lot of opinions,
Mark D. Williams 36:50
yeah, interesting. How do you have, you had any architects that you know, that were a little skeptical, that have been sort of won over by the tours? You know, they once, they have a home in or they see what it's been done. I mean, early on, was there some objection or not, really.
Jen Veralle 37:06
I what I hope is that it just drove adoption of it and a desire to want to have a home on the tour, right? Yeah, yeah. I sense that. Like, especially, you know, with chisel now coming on in their seventh year, and gonna have a home on the tour. I mean, the groundwork has been laid for you, and now you have a perfect home with a story and a client. That is, yeah, it's your turn.
Mark D. Williams 37:29
Yeah. What are what do architects say after they've had a home on tour? I mean, it's always hard. People always ask me, Hey Mark, you know, the tour just ended, how many leads did you get? How many? And it's like, it's I, I've always told people it takes me about two to three years before I can tell you if that home was successful or not. Because, as you know, you're going to be six months to a year in design and how long before they come back and I have it, there is something about being consistently public facing. Because I have a client now, they actually just reached out to me yesterday in an email. They're like, we followed your work for years. We met you at this Hard Hat Kid tour that I did last year, which was kind of fun. And like, we'd love if you could come by and give us some ideas. And so, like, you never know when that little seed was planted. And so it's hard to say really, which one was more successful. I think some some builders might say, like, especially if they have a house to sell. Of course, it feels good if you sold the home I've never really had sold the home. I've never really had a home on tour, and at least in the last 15 years, has been for sale. So I can't speak to that. It's more how many new interests and how many new leads. So I guess the question is, is, what are the architects saying that do have homes on tour? How beneficial is it to their business?
Jen Veralle 38:39
Well, I think you're exactly right. It's just a long game, right? And that's a lot of the argument we might have had to make in the beginning, too. And one of the things I think AIA does well is help follow up after the tour. I know they have meetings and sessions for tours after, or for the architects after to, like, look at the number of visitors, like, compare all of that across the board. So I think there's a good sharing of knowledge. And then, you know, AIA has their own publication. So a lot of these homes get published in different ways. But yeah, it's a longer lead time. I mean, chisel, you know that with any feature or any media, people come to you and say, Oh, we saw this years ago. So I think it's just, like, also just the buzz in the community after a tour. Yeah, right. Don't you think, because you'll get calls if you have, like, some piece that was published on a home that you design, you get calls and emails all the time, right? Sarah, yeah, so that's, it's kind of like a, you know, you're just anecdotally, kind of hearing it and feeling good about it. I guess
Mark D. Williams 39:41
someone told me this about marketing. You would know this, Jen, but it was like, you can, you can be a hunter, or you can be a gatherer, like a planter, right? And so it's like, in a marketing standpoint, you kind of need both, like, you know, when things are like, slow and you need cash flow, like, I need to be hunting. Like I need, I need a deer, I need a buffalo, I need a fish, for whatever analogy. And then. And but for planting, it's kind of both. It's brand play, it's Hey, they're consistently out there. I think anyone you talk to consistency is king. I don't care if it's exercise marketing relationships, consistency Trumps almost any other thing. And so I guess training the public to know when it is. Ian, Ian, if
Mark D. Williams 40:23
you've been listening to podcast for a while now, or even if this is your first episode, I talk about the contractor coalition summit all of the time. Our next one is happening November 7 through November 10 in Chicago, and all the details can be found at the contractor coalition summit.com. You've got Brad Levitt, Nick Schiffer, Tyler, Grace, Morgan Molitor and myself will all be there. We've got great content over three days. You've got builders from all over the country try to get it to about that 30 people number. And we'll have sponsors as well that add a lot of value to each one of these dedicated days where you're talking about contracts and spreadsheets and margin and whether you're doing fixed bid or cost, plus your pre construction agreements. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. If you haven't been following it yet, you should. The contractor coalition summit Instagram page is giving you a steady diet of the conversations that are being had, a lot of promo reels, a lot of the interviews that I've done personally at Omaha, which was my first contractor coalition, where I'm part of the leadership, interviewed all 36 people that attended, and we're going to be unveiling each one of their interviews over the next couple of months, so people that were not able to attend and would like to can kind of get a better idea of the value that builders are getting. So if you're going to sign up and come to Chicago, you can type in the promo code, curious builder, and get $2,500 off, and we'll see you in Chicago. Has it always been in the fall? It's always been the why? Yeah. Why was it the fall that was picked?
Jen Veralle 41:49
Well, there's also the Parade of Homes right in the remodeler showcase. There are other tours right around that time.
Mark D. Williams 41:56
That's changed, though, because it used to be, they used to not. There used to be one parade that was it. My dad used to say, you know, back in he built in the 70s and 80s, and I don't know when it changed, but then it became a spring and a fall, and then you've got, I mean, we could go through the whole history of all the tours that there's so many tours. In some ways, you get a little tour fatigue. I mean, sometimes the public, I get concerned, as a builder, that the client, that the public gets kind of confused. You got fall and spring parades. Now you have fall and spring artisans, right? So, I mean, essentially, you can, basically, the only two months I'm aware of that doesn't have some sort of a tour is like January and December. Wow. I mean, pretty much there's always the seat that, and
Sara Whicher 42:34
then we maybe should have that cabin, cabin country, Christmas, really?
Mark D. Williams 42:40
Christmas come for Christmas cookies?
Jen Veralle 42:42
Yes, right? I think that's an untapped market.
Sara Whicher 42:45
Yeah, I know, yeah.
Mark D. Williams 42:47
Oh, my word that would be, that would be pretty funny, you know, only because it's kind of funny. Have you any other stories where people have come into a home? I mean, you always get, you know, it's open to the public. I mean, public sometimes they're some odd people and some odd situations. I've had my fair share of at this one kid one day now that I at the time, I did not have children, so I didn't understand. Now I sort of understand, but it was still on this parent. So this I heard this loud banging upstairs and and I go upstairs in this kid is in a full karate suit, running through the room and jumping in the air, flying, kicking my sheet rock wall. No, yeah. You can't make the sound like, I got like, Jackie Chan and training here, and his dad. It's like, not doing anything. I'm like, I'm like, 28 years old. I have no idea. I've never had kids. I'm not married at this time. I'm like, what is happening? And I think I just do. I think I just appeal to the humanity. I think, I think I must have. I was always pretty good at redirecting kids. In particular, I used to be a high school cross country coach, so maybe that's the deal. And I just told the kid. I said, Hey, if you're really good, there's some chocolate for you on the way out. If your dad says it's okay, so you're on a Disney Poor kid. He went to the next house probably had chocolate and karate all over the floor. I was just like, what is happening? I mean, and people ask the weirdest things. I mean, sometimes people come through and they're just like, and you just gotta let the stuff roll off your back, right? They'll come in through, like, why would anyone do that? Or that's the dumbest thing I've ever saw. And I was like, and I was trying to, you know, combat it with kind of some like, you know what? It's not for everyone, but, you know, on your home, I'd be happy to design it however you want. And they would just, kind of like, theatrically, you know, they weren't your person, and they walk away or whatever. But in some ways, I actually sort of like controversy, because it's like, well, no, I mean, I mean within reason. The point is, is, like most people in our tours get a lot longer than yours. I sort of like the idea that it's two days and it's done, right? I think two weeks would be perfect, but the parade home is like, four or five weeks. It's really long, it's exhausting. And it's not only exhausting for me, because I believe in being in the home the whole time, but your family, you know, things like that. The Artisan I like is three weekends that's actually really nice, and a few less days. But where I was going with this is, after a while, you're, you're trying to look to be a little bit entertained too, not only business, but like, Hey, can I have some fun here? And so sometimes it's fun when, you know, grouchy Myrtle will come in and just, you know, just rip your house apart. And you kind of like, yeah. Little controversy. I'm okay with this, right? Maybe I'm a little abnormal, yeah, but yeah, don't worry, no one will come in and
Jen Veralle 45:07
rip your house. No. I think that's why sometimes the homeowners are like, No, I don't need to. I can see that, yeah, because that does happen. And that's, I would say, that's, those are the comments, and most people are, they're just curious, but they don't have an understanding of the architecture or why? Why they that would be done, and sometimes may not feel empowered to, like, even ask those questions, so then they leave without really getting a full experience. But I think, you know, with cherry mash matter in the home on this year's Tour and chisel staff, you can ask anything,
Sara Whicher 45:36
right? Ask away, yeah, yeah. I
Mark D. Williams 45:38
think this question, it used to be, people would always walk in the front door and they would say, how many square feet, how much does it cost? Yeah, and what color is on the wall? So yeah, the smart ones just do a print sheet. You just give it to them right away. So then you have to deal with that. Or you say, Here's my card. Follow up with an email. This also works. They never email you, or one out of 500 email you. That's fine. Where I was going with this is they ask you the square footage, and my canned response has always sort of been and again, I like playing games, as you can probably imagine. And I said, said, tell you what. Be happy to answer your question. Why don't you look through the house, and if you're really, if you're if you're really close, I'll give you I'll give you some chocolate. I'll give you some chocolates. And a kid who's doing karate pretty soon, I could work for that answer. And so what I've noticed with that question, people always guess the home to be bigger than it is. Interesting. Part of it has to do with natural light. I just I'm obsessed with natural light. What do you mean? The bigger and the people always daylight, the people always tend to guess the home to be bigger than it actually is. So let's say I have a 4000 square foot house, they'll say it's 4500 it's 4500 or 5000 square feet. Or let's say it's 3000 square feet, they'll say it's 4000 most people don't have a as good of a grasp on square footage as obviously an architect would or a builder who's building it, because we know we just built it, and then also, we see enough homes that we kind of get acquainted to it. But you know, it's proportion, it's flow, it's lighting, it's all these other things that are and so that that's a certain style. There are certain homes like, you know, Misa, who is this home that I'll have on tour here next June. That home, I just brought a couple through this morning, and they said the house is roughly 5000 square feet, and for a big house, this home feels very small, which is the first time I've had people inverted. But I think we're starting to see people I don't know if this is true for you, Sarah, in terms of, for a long time, for 20 years, everyone wanted more open floor plans. Now we're starting to see the traditional response come back. And I live in a 1919 house, so it's very common there. But like, people are like, they want smaller rooms to refuge too. They want a smaller little room to, you know, be separated. Are you finding
Sara Whicher 47:39
that it's seeming to move in that direction right now, yeah, although you'll still get people who want to have those big, open spaces, but there is that people want to retreat and have a place to retreat within their home. So, yeah,
Mark D. Williams 47:53
similar. Have you been to any other AIA tours in the country, other than the one in Minnesota?
Jen Veralle 47:59
I haven't. I haven't either. I think we had that in the budget one year. We must go travel and see how the other
Sara Whicher 48:07
probably got shut down. Got shut down.
Mark D. Williams 48:10
What are your you'd mentioned sponsors. We couldn't do the curious builder podcast without our sponsors. You know, I'm a huge shout out to them. And even collaborating on, you know, Misa, who's our first spec home in 16 years. I'm really excited about it, but a big part of it is the sponsors that you partner with when you decide to launch the tour. Even now, you know, now you have a viable, you know, tour, obviously, it's very viable. It's got great recognition. You've got a great following. People are conditioned now, then you're 18, it's not a new thing anymore. It's a mature thing. What are the sponsors and the brand partners say about it, and what is kind of their involvement?
Jen Veralle 48:44
Well, it's, it's tricky with the tour. I mean, I'll just go back to the first year, because we wanted to have the product from that the sponsors were representative of, and make sure those products were in the home, like if Marvin decided they wanted to sponsor, and none of the homes had Marvin windows. That's also just a it's a conflict, it's hard. So we looked outside of like products, even room and board was one of our first and most important sponsors, and still to this day, they do. They host, like the kickoff to the tour, and they've been a great partner in that. So yeah, I think that was a little tricky in the beginning, but I think the ones that have stuck with it over the years. And now the system for finding sponsors, I would say, has much improved from when we started. It's very methodical. When all of the firms submit their entries, you have to put a full list of suppliers in there, and then the AIA will take care of, you know, correlating those and reaching out and saying, Hey, did you know of the 18 homes we're considering that are on the tour? You have product in five so, like those kind of things, I think we just the tour has gotten a lot smarter with that and representing. And I think you just see the same sponsors come back year after year.
Mark D. Williams 49:56
What about your you know, your partners on the project? So. You've got the staff, so it sounds like you have some a staff that are helping with the tours, and
Sara Whicher 50:04
there's always someone at the at the at the entry, yep. And then the architects, obviously the architects and their staff, yeah.
Mark D. Williams 50:12
And then what about, in terms of the clients? When you approach the clients and say, Hey, I'd love this home to be on tour, what you know, how does, how does that conversation go?
Sara Whicher 50:21
Well, that is the most important conversation that you have, because if you don't have the client wanting to do this, you can't, you can't, right? Which is true of all of them, yeah, and so it's a big buy in for them and opening up their home like this, as always, we just said the stars always have to align for this to happen.
Jen Veralle 50:44
Yeah, and the homeowners can kind of pick and choose to what their level of involvement wants to be. They can be there for the whole weekend. They can be media on TV, or they can choose not to and be a little bit more like we're just gonna let you have that. And it's a huge testament to Marcy and Sarah and their relationship, because it's a huge trust that it, you know, impacts their schedule. And we've had photo shoots there and styling and all this, and they've been so gracious.
Mark D. Williams 51:11
Think one of the huge advantages that your tour has is the fact that you have finished photography. The home is 100% done, so you never lived in, right? And so the only thing you really have to worry about is, like, you know, actually, a question is the architect, you know, help, like, in terms of staging or styling or cleaning the house before and after the tour, like some of those more logistical things, like, I can only speak to myself, like most of the tours, your home can't live be lived in unless it's a remodeled home, which I've certainly done. But if that's the case, then I'm usually having cleaners show up the day before, you know, they have to go out to a hotel or they can't be there. I want the house completely clean. I'll bring the design team in, you know, we'll, you know, fluff and buff it and make it look really great.
Sara Whicher 51:54
We're gonna have to use that. I need that. Yes, you can have
Mark D. Williams 51:57
young Steads either do a default, yeah, so you should go in there with your car and just be like, Hey,
Sara Whicher 52:03
do you guys do homes as well? Can you detail a home?
Mark D. Williams 52:07
How do you guys handle that logistically? Because you know that you want to showcase that represents your brand. And so I get pretty fanatical about, like, how my brand is represented from the moment they come in the front door. Kind of a Funny tangent. And my dad was totally different builder than I am, but he said he always spent an extra $100 on the front door. Not real spendy guy. Wow. But his point was, he that it's the first thing anyone touches in your house, really. That always stuck with me, mainly, I forget less about the dollar amount and more about the concept, like the first thing anyone touches of your house. So he always said he wanted to have a nice doorknob, which I just thought was sort of funny, okay, and yet, okay, Dad, I only bring that up, but like, what's important to you when you get ready for a tour house? You want to, you know, do all the things. But like, what are some key things that, hey, this would be successful as an architect if this happened in this home.
Sara Whicher 52:58
This is a tricky question, not tricky, but we really want to showcase what a client's wanted. We have this process, this pattern of life, process, which we really dive deep into people's patterns, their wishes, their wants, and so showcasing that is really important. It really is what the client wants and what they want to get out of this house. It's their house. It's not our house. Yeah.
Jen Veralle 53:28
And I think also, you know, a lot of behind the scenes coordinating off spaces that don't aren't necessary in telling the story, and we'll be doing that at this home. And you know, it is a lived in space. So we don't, you know, we don't send people away. If they want to be there, they can, but really just removing all the barriers of people, like getting into spaces they shouldn't be into, but then also making sure, and it's, again, it's two days, so the entire staff can be there. We can be monitoring that, so it feels like that'll be part of the process, and just having people ask questions will be huge. So from the greeting at the front from the AI staff person and chisel, just to know that this is a space where you should be asking questions you're not expected to know at all. So I hope people leave with that experience that they, you know, got something about architecture and design out of it, and why they would hire an architect. I think
Mark D. Williams 54:21
that's that's well said. I think it reminded me. I think it's Maya Angelou, who has the quote that we hear all the time, that people forget what you say, but they never forget how you made them feel. I think a home kind of embodies that quote really well, yeah, especially when people that don't know that much, because you have your super fans who are architects, like, they'll talk about stuff that way above my knowledge base, that you'll be like, Oh, wow. This person clearly knows architecture. Or like, you know, they get really enthused, which is great. We love that side. But I also like the person that comes through that has, you know, they came because their friend, you know, Victoria, brought them through, and they're like, Well, this is, I just happened to, wow. This is amazing. And like, you know, they come out and they say, You know what? I don't know anything what I saw, but I this home really made me feel welcome like that. To me is always. That comfortable, one of my favorite things that people say, because there's so much love that goes into a home, so much emotion, so much of your time. And so, of course, it's not only that, it's appreciated because you care about it, but like that, someone could come away with an impact that, like somehow a part of you was in that. And I don't know that. I don't know that. I don't know how else to explain it. Really, my words are not doing a great job, but basically, like, the home emotes something from them, and they leave with it, like it left something upon them, that they're like, interesting, and I think it's okay if they don't know what it was, right? In fact, I've come at more and more peace that it's okay. In fact, I almost like it more if they can't tell me what they like about it, and they're sort of just befuddled, like I am right now just saying, like, I just really like this home, but I really like you, sir, that's what you wanted to say. We love this home, but we love you. Really, really love you. We love you, your pattern of life,
Jen Veralle 55:52
yeah. Well, I think it creates a curiosity. And I just want to say, with the home on this year's Tour, the focus is entertainment. So this couple doesn't have any children, and they are the most welcoming, like, you know, newly moving into this home, all of a sudden, they've attracted, like, all sorts of community around it. And I think that's the vibe that's going to come through and access to the lake. So it's a, you know, urban setting.
Sara Whicher 56:17
Happen? Where in the city is it? It's on shady oak Lake,
Mark D. Williams 56:20
okay, yeah, that's the Eden Prairie. Or Hopkins. Hopkins, Okay, excellent. What, as we kind of wrap up, what are, is there anything that you're excited about for future tours, or anything that you're kind of like, you know, we talked about evolution, about the small projects, or what do you see as kind of the future some things, cabin
Sara Whicher 56:37
tours, the cabin tours. I think that's brilliant. Yeah, we can wear it in January, Ian, we'll see who's your mom driving? My mother can drive. It's a
Mark D. Williams 56:47
long bus.
Jen Veralle 56:50
Well, chisel does excellent work with cabins and that whole northern experience in there. And I'll say it because Sarah is not but the not so big house and like this, you know, just minimalistic, simplistic idea of what a cabin.
Mark D. Williams 57:05
I mean, I think you'd be onto something, because so many, I mean, Minnesota has so many talented architects. It's kind of incredible community. And there's so much in, you know, northern Minnesota, Wisconsin, you know, Okoboji, all these areas that you hear about all the time. It's like, the question is, for logistically, as a tour, that would be
Sara Whicher 57:23
extremely challenging. Well, I know that. I know that Dale had had a tour up. He had had a northern tour, like in the Duluth area, yeah, yeah. So they want to see a few homes. So, you know, we'll have to talk to
Jen Veralle 57:36
Dale again. I think we get a sauna tour. Yeah, there we go.
Mark D. Williams 57:40
Except I want to be in the sauna,
Sara Whicher 57:45
in the sauna. Mark
Mark D. Williams 57:47
finish culture. Let's go, Oh my god. I'll just hang out my misahu Sauna. That would be
Sara Whicher 57:52
but I think that, I think the AIA is on to something with the smaller remodel, these smaller spaces, because that can make a huge impact in people's lives.
Mark D. Williams 58:01
It's more approachable. Yeah, I mean, it's not the remodeler showcase, right? So, like, I prayed they have a small section. It's the last weekend, and it's only for remodels. And I have, I've had plenty of people both ways that they'll come just for the remodels, but not the new homes, or people come from the new homes. And I've had a ream. I've done every single tour under the sun. And so it's like, let's say, except I haven't had an AIA tour. We might actually do one that we're working with with we're working right now with Christopher Strom on a rural setting. And the question is, is whether we can get access to the driveways, like a mile long. So logistically, it's a bit of a challenge. It's a busy County Road, where is Suffolk County Road six back in Orono, tucked around, and this is just a really long flag lot to get back there. And I'm like, is it go karts? Is it golf carts? Like and it's a county road, so do you park? Shuttling is always cuts down your numbers. So anyway, the point is, there's a lot more to logistics than most people think. In pulling off a home, especially in which the home isn't gorgeous, I'd love to showcase it, so we'll try. So that would, yeah, that's the one I have not had. You have to come to this year. Oh, I will. That's a scouting mission. If nothing else, I'm bringing a pair of wooly men case, you know, if you were to give advice to, you know, this podcast, obviously, is around the country. You know, we work with a lot of other builders or connection designers around the country that don't have tours. If someone was to consider a tour, what are a couple things that you would advise them on how to start a tour? I mean, I've never met anyone that has helped you know, foundationally start a tour. What advice would you give to them?
Sara Whicher 59:29
Well, make sure you're working with the local AIA, yes, definitely you have to get get into that group and get working with those people.
Jen Veralle 59:38
Yeah, there's so many good models, right? Like, just to look to other models around the country and maybe talk with a few people who've been in it for a while and have experienced all the challenges and have really good models. I mean, they're really it just depends on the location, right, and what that community has an appetite for, because a
Mark D. Williams 59:56
lot of a lot of tourists started without any sort of help, whether it's AI. Or builders, or anybody you might have a development, you're like, we're just gonna do our own tour. I mean, we did harvest harvest honey, honey Hill, harvest fest. What we call it, harvest honey Hill, harvest honey
Jen Veralle 1:00:12
missed that. Yeah. So
Mark D. Williams 1:00:13
first, Sarah and I are doubling over this six lot development. And the point was, is we had no home to show so it was like, how do you gain interest in this? And so we kind of threw, like a barn party. We had live music. We had, you know, my point is, is, if I were to answer my own question, I guess is just, just do it, just get a bunch of people. Now, yes, your advice is probably better to ask local eight, you know, whether it's a builder, architect or designers, or whoever. But honestly, if you have a great idea, like, I think the public is thirsty for ways to connect. So give
Jen Veralle 1:00:43
creator and in person, there's nothing, I mean, a lot of architectural firms, you know, it's just the pretty picture on the website. Again, it creates just sometimes a barrier. If you want to make it accessible, invite
Sara Whicher 1:00:53
people in, yeah, well, I know you and I and Marcy have talked about having people over to a client's home to have a dinner. So say you had an intimate dinner and you just invited some people who might be interested in designing a home. I just think that's a really nice way around the dinner table and within a home to Yeah, have conversations and just experience being in someone's home.
Mark D. Williams 1:01:18
We did that maybe 10 years ago. A real estate agent I knew did that, and so I was like, That's a great idea. So I would offer to my clients, hey, I'll cater a meal for you and your family. I'll bring my team, and you invite anyone you want, friends and family, you know, knock it out, however many you want. It was interesting for a while, it kind of went then you then some people think, Ah, it's too busy. And a lot of times you just went through that whole build. So it's a big part of is asking the when, like, when do you do it? Because a lot of times you're tired of the building, like, we want to do it right at the end. Well, the house looks amazing, and it's like, sometimes the homeowners feel like there's a lot of pressure to entertain that many people, and so it's the right client. I think it's maybe the answer the question is the same as yours, which is, you really need the person who really wants it? Yeah? And they end up being sort of your super your super fan. You know those types of people well? Thank you very much for coming on one hour on the dot. Boom. We did it perfectly succinct. We'll have everything in the show notes again, for those listening that are here locally or maybe want to fly in at September 27 and 28th we'll have all the links in the show notes on Instagram, and we'll probably put a link to the registry page for the AIA Minnesota home store so we can try to help drive some traffic there. Thanks for coming in and sharing the story of what it is to create and run and have a tour.
Jen Veralle 1:02:31
Yeah, no fun. Thanks for having us. All right, till next time,
Mark D. Williams 1:02:36
we've had the podcast now for two and a half, almost three years now, and we have a consulting page, one to one consulting. You can book my time for one hour. Perhaps you've heard a guest where you like one of the topics. Maybe you want an introduction to some of the guests that I've had on. Perhaps you want to talk about branding or marketing, or anything that we've covered on the podcast over the last two and a half years. You can book a time at curious builder podcast.com. Thanks for tuning in the curious builder podcast. If you liked this episode, do us a favor. Share it with three other business owners. The best way that we can spread what we're doing is by word of mouth, and with your help, we can continue to help other curious builders expand their business. Please share it with your friends. Like and review online, and thanks again for tuning in.
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