Episode 25 - Julia Miller of Yond Interiors
Dare to Change with Yond Interiors: Breaking Down the Psychology of Design and Giving Yourself Permission to Fail
Julia Miller gets into the other half of the world of design and explains why it is not just about the creative side. As a current designer for Yond Interiors, Julia shares what got her started in the interior design industry and what pushes her passion for her work. She shares an inside look of her business, with how many projects at a time she takes on, and how she finds the right clients for her. Pitching your product and service is a proven psychology, and Julia breaks down how she gets her vision across. She also discusses how to save money as a business owner, sourcing fixtures abroad, and most importantly, giving yourself permission to fail. Problem solving is part of the process, and Julia gives you the tools to do so in this episode.
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About Julia Miller
Julia Miller is the founder and creative director of Yond Interiors, an interior design studio nestled in Minneapolis but serving clients nationwide. Yond Interiors is rooted in the philosophy that interaction and engagement with intentional design enhance our well-being. This foundational philosophy underpins our wide portfolio of residential projects which consistently explores proportion, light, and balance to deliver honest and nurturing spaces.
The work and ethos of Yond Interiors are featured in nationwide and local publications such as Rue Magazine, Domino, the Atlantic and Western Home Journal.
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Welcome to the curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today I am with Julia Miller from yond interiors. Welcome, Julia.
00:05
Hello, Mark, how are you?
Mark D. Williams 00:07
It's great to have you on. Thank you. It's fun because we were actually located in the studio is just south southwest of Lake Harriet and we are working on a project together on a big remodel over there we are. So we're probably like, half a mile away from across
00:19
a couple blocks. It feels like but I don't really know geography very well. So don't ask.
Mark D. Williams 00:24
Yeah, well, like a lot of my not so great ideas. Actually, my great ideas usually come from my wife. So I met you through my wife, she followed you, she loves your work. And she introduced you and said, Hey, you really need to work with Julia and beyond on some of your future projects. And boom, boom, here. We have six months later. So thank you, honey, best design decision you've made in a while. Yeah, you still haven't even met her. I
00:45
haven't. Well,
Mark D. Williams 00:46
so take this as the opportunity. It was funny because I think that was coming out of post COVID The second wave, and I remember running with my kids one day, and it was like the day after we did our first zoom interview. Yeah. And you were running the opposite your training for Twin Cities, Marathon. Grandmas. Maybe grandma's marathon? Yeah, it was in the spring. Oh, because my my wife did that one too. And so we're just running with a stroller and I obviously would not recognize you because you're like head to toe like wraparound Oakley glasses like you were very. You look like a Navy SEAL going to war. And you like Mark Williams? I'm like, oh, geez, IRS, Social Security, what's going on here? And really like, hey, it's truly I just saw you. I was like, Oh, thanks for saying hi. Meanwhile, I'm wearing like,
01:23
I just didn't say I think you had bright orange on because I was like, Oh my goodness. How is that person not dressed like I am, which is like completely covered. And yet he like, you know, is just running. So smooth leisure, the stroller
Mark D. Williams 01:34
stroller, I was like, that's not me. My motor runs a little hot. I definitely have some heat. Might actually it's funny. Because you know how your little kids reflect you, you actually can learn a lot about your spouse and yourself through your kids. Yeah, and my littlest one is constantly hot all the time. And like, Okay, you have my thermostat.
01:51
Whereas when I run, I'm like, Oh my gosh, I couldn't even think about doing anything else, let alone push a stroller or deal with anybody else.
Mark D. Williams 01:57
I think it was funny. In this. This was the point of podcast. We're just gonna talk about running the whole time. I like to run but it was funny because I just picked this up is when we saw you up at grandma's. And I remember because you ran with your brother in law's. And why don't we make a joke? Like you'd like the training and we didn't like the race. Exactly. What about you maybe just running north and south south? Because you totally.
02:15
I just said Yeah, right. I don't need the whole crowd. I don't need the whole thing. I just need to I just want to run the race, but not with other people necessarily. Next time I competitive in that way. There is
Mark D. Williams 02:26
a there was a guy in the paper. I think he's done it for like four or five years in a row. Right? He did it like both ways. He does a double
02:30
like starts a couple hours ahead of the Start Time runs from Duluth to the start point and then runs from the starting point back to Duluth.
Mark D. Williams 02:37
Yeah, so if you're, I think he was trying for 100 miler. So obviously, that's a 50 mile or roughly 50 miler, right. Yeah. And so but he was trained for 100, I believe was in the paper. And he's done it for a number of years. I sounds like he gets a
02:48
he's a better person than me. Whoever he is. If you're listening to this, you're awesome.
Mark D. Williams 02:51
You're pretty great. Bring him on the podcast.
02:55
Running podcast
Mark D. Williams 02:56
running podcast now. Okay, well, this. Welcome. I hope you like running. If not, well, stay tuned, we're gonna get to some cool stuff. So Julia, tell, tell our audience tell. Tell me everything. Tell me Tell me. How did you get started and design? Actually, I do not know the answer to this question.
03:10
Oh, man. Okay. I'll give the short and sweet version. So I was a clinical social worker for I think about 12 years, I worked in the federal system. I studied, mostly like psychotic disorders. And I had like a special interest in community based clinical work. So I have my MSW I have a clinical license and then practiced. What does that MSW masters and social work? Oh, well, there you go. Yeah, exactly. So I was on I was on a career track, you could say, in my clinical work, I had a federal job was super stable. But I also had my second kid when I turned 35, which was now about five years ago. And I don't know, I feel like other moms out there have told me when they hear my story, that it's similar for them that that second kid kind of like triggers a whole new way of thinking in your mind. I don't know, for me, it was like, oh, man, I have so much more responsibility, but also I feel like Time is moving so much faster. And so that kind of like mind shift was happening at the same time that my husband and I were doing a big remodel on our house, our personal house, just it was coincidental. And I did all the design work for that. And then I started Instagram because I personally loved watching everybody do their own home remodels, and none of my family none of my immediate family lives local. My husband's family is all local but it was like just a way to show people what you were doing what we're doing and it was fun. And that kind of grew and grew and grew and that's honestly where I felt like I got kind of the at least the the taste of the opportunity to change careers. I was like okay, this is going well I feel like I'm really enjoying this whole process. And other people seem to be enjoying it as well. And so I it was in the back of my mind, you know, always that like design was obviously something I was super interested in passionate about. But being a social worker, I felt like my vocation was was pretty moderate on my vocational calling was pretty strong. So anyway, so I had my second kid, we were doing this remodel, I was getting kind of this growing Instagram following. And then when the project was done, Kelly Keegan's from Minneapolis, she's a writer for MSP. Yes, she randomly contacted me. She said, Hey, we found out about your project, and we think it would be a good fit for MSP mag, but we also think it would be a good fit for better homes. And so she said, Can I come in, talk to you about it? And I was like, hey, okay. So in all honesty, it was kind of it was that moment. And then What year was this? Like? 2019? Okay. 2018 2019. And honestly, that was like, Okay, I think I could do this. If I wanted to make a career change, I could probably I have the confidence like if my project can get published, that was what I needed. And also concurrent with that there was a local design firm that reached out to see if I was interested in working for them. Oh, wow. So I was like, Okay, I think I could do this. So I side hustle that
Mark D. Williams 06:07
they want to publish you, they want to hire you and you're like, wow, yeah.
06:11
Honestly, I think like, I feel like the universe knew I needed that level of sign to transition out of my, what I felt like was my life calling. But I also to mention, you know, the birth of my second child, because I feel like for me, it was like this, like, shift of like, I could be in this career for the rest of my life. But like, life is short, I have a lot of interests. I love design. And if I'm ever going to make the change, like now feels like the time. And also it was like a very personal endeavor, like an investment in what my life experience was. I feel like when you have kids, your whole life can easily revolve around your kids and easily become consumed with just being a parent. And it was clear to me that, you know, I didn't want to have regrets either. And so I side hustle design. I started taking clients like pretty much immediately so 2019
Mark D. Williams 07:05
people reaching out to you on Instagram. Yes. Oh, yeah. So I got it pretty quick, mostly locally here in Minneapolis, you know,
07:10
and that ties into something else we might talk about, but a lot. A couple of my first clients were outside of Minneapolis. And I think that's where the Instagram reach really helped to, because obviously that was that's nationwide interest. But yeah, so 2019 was my year of Yes. I said no, I said I'd never said no, I just
Mark D. Williams 07:30
have a birthday. We do a yesterday. Oh, sounds like you had a yes. year I had a yes.
07:33
Yeah, I had a whole yes year. And that meant that I did everything. I did everything from lighting selections to smaller furnishing selections to some bigger remodels. But basically, I was still working at my other job and
Mark D. Williams 07:48
trial by fire because you're taking everything on, you're balancing it all. You're running a business you're designing, I have a four month old Oh, wow. And a four month old. So midnight feedings and you're scrolling through like, you know what your child putting
08:01
putting together a presentation. But it was really it was? Yeah, it was. It was rapid fire. And I think it was a really good way for me to feel like I could dabble and also like I knew I had to build a business if it was going to be successful. So I was also on the side. Hiring a lawyer to write a contract I was I have a CPA, I hired a CPA at that point, I hired a bookkeeper, like I did all
Mark D. Williams 08:25
All right away. Yeah. On day one are like Yes. Oh, yeah. Well, I can't see this, go to our YouTube channel or the website, because we just got a knuckleball, that's impressive, like thought process.
08:36
But also keep in mind, I come from a background where like diligence in the details is required, like I'm used to i At that point, I was used to medical level documentation about pretty much everything that was happening and, you know, the clients lives that I worked with. And so I was very used to kind of, you know, documenting and collecting information one way.
Mark D. Williams 08:58
That's interesting, as a quick side note, just because we've worked, and we were only a couple of months, well, we're a year into design, but we're only a couple of months into the project of the one that we're working on currently. And one of the things that, you know, obviously your aesthetic and your tone, I was immediately attracted to just because your tone is spot on. I just love it. But what actually sealed the deal for me personally, as a business owner, obviously, when we do pitches to our clients, of course, they have to love the designer and feel like it's a good connection both ways. But I was impressed with your documentation. Now, you hearing you say that explains a lot, because you are extremely detailed. And I find that a big part of my job is obviously making the right pairing. And I'm not saying that design and style is not important, and certainly it is. But one of the big things that I would say builders and I should speak for myself that I value greatly in an architecture partner as well as a design partner is someone who's really organized and that's not to say that I'm not organized. I appreciate the details in my personality is not one that you know, you know, Well we certainly have our spreadsheets and all that kind of stuff. I appreciate other people's really diving into the details and tracking it because as you know, a construction project or a remodel is, so there's so many things going on. And oftentimes, we're putting out a fire. And but if we don't have the fire extinguisher in this analogy, or all the other things that are already documented in place, your team does such a great job of consolidating and updating it. And it's anyway, it's very impressive, thank
10:18
you. And honestly, I feel like, you know, when I got into this job, I also think, like not having been a trained designer, and never really having worked with one myself, I had no idea what the standards were. So I was able to kind of create what I felt like made me feel, you know, the best in terms of like, delivering actual, valuable, you know, products to both the builders and the clients. But also, I feel like, you know, it helped me just like, create a process that works for our team. And I think that that's been, you know, super helpful for us to now continue to improve upon that, because it feels really natural and organic for us now. But I also was very keen to not be a designer who was just interested in the pretty things, you know, like in order for our work to be successful, and for a builder to build it to our specification, we have to give them that information and specification. And so it was super important to me that we were professional from the get go that we could obviously do all of the pretty things, all of the you know, like, all the things you would expect a designer to do. But I also felt like it was equally as important to me on the back end that we weren't, you know, leaving who we were now working with our build partners or architect partners out to dry by not being competent, and our technical skills. So
Mark D. Williams 11:36
how big is your team now? So you started with a CPA or bookkeeper and yourself? And then what was the next hire for you. And now how big is your team,
11:43
so we so I, so I left my federal job. And then I pretty much right away hired like a project manager. So I knew that that was the the skill set, I was not the best at. So with interior design, it's it's obviously a lot of work in terms of the selections, but then on the back end, there's tons of purchasing and tons of product management. So you know, if we're not working with the builder, who purchases everything, you know, we still purchase lighting and hardware and mirrors and you know, hooks and stuff like that. But we also do huge furnishing projects. And so those projects could be whole homes of, I don't know, 5000 items. And so that's a lot to manage. And similar to my interest in being professional, you know, in terms of our technical, you know, drafting skills and stuff. It was also important to me that, like I had a process for how we did ordering and procurement and all of that kind of stuff. So it was pretty quick that like, you know, I was not going to I was not going to be able to do all of that well. So I hired a project manager who also had CAD skills, because that was the other thing I don't have is like the actual drafting capacity since I didn't go to school. And so she had kind of both of those. And we work together for a while. And then we hired we backfill basically the purchasing job so that she could concentrate more on design. So then we were a team of three. Then Laura, who had that initial position left and so we back filled again. So now we're a team of four. So it's myself, we have a senior designer, Samantha. Sarah is also a designer, I don't really like hierarchy or titles. To be honest, I feel like they're super competent and capable. So Sarah is also a designer, she's incredibly technical and she's incredibly organized so she does a lot of like the Hey Sarah I got these I got this idea for this island, like what do you think and she'll, you know, draw it out but she's also like, okay, the cabinetry I think needs to line up like this. She's just like super good at Space planning. So she does a lot of the behind the scenes stuff. And then we have now we have a purchasing manager as well.
Mark D. Williams 13:55
Wow. How many projects would you guys typically run at a time? Or is it because clients are at different phases? You're kind of at design phases and I mean, I know for me, I assume it's analogous that the building is hard for us because I might have four or five projects operating but I'm bidding on three or four I might have a few and design is that similar to an interior designers kind of flow flow and funnel of work
14:16
yeah, it's basically the same so and I think that that's where we're getting now is my time is being stretched more and more away from kind of the design part of the business which is sad for me but also kind of invigorating because I get to do stuff like this but yeah, we have at the current moment, I believe 21 active project. Oh my. But they're all in different stages.
Mark D. Williams 14:38
So sounds really impressive when you're like 21 Yeah,
14:40
just means we're tired. Yeah, that's just what that means. No, but some of them so like you know, some of them are waiting on a sofa and we don't close a project. We don't stop communication. We don't stop checking in until the punch list is done. And that punch lists sometimes could be just a sofas waiting to get delivered. Or, you know, like I don't know The Punch List for the contractor is waiting to get done. So we have several projects, I would say maybe two to four in that not really active but active stage. And then we pretty much try to take on a small amount of projects in the design phase at one time, because the design work for us is obviously the heaviest, you know, kind of commitment of our time. So I would say we actively have maybe between two to six projects in design phase. And again, our projects vary in scope and scale as well. So we tend to do larger projects now. But in full honesty, if a client comes to us, and they're a perfect fit, and they just have a kitchen, but they're awesome, and they're fun, and they have the same vision as us for what they want. We'll totally do that too. Right. So it's we're doing less and less of those. But I always leave room in our schedule for what we say what we say is like creative magic. So if someone comes to us, and they have a small projects, but they're great, we'd still totally consider working with them. So some of them are full homes, new construction, some of them are remodels that we're working on. And some of them are smaller projects, or furnishing only where we don't have a contractor partner. And we're kind of managing all of that.
Mark D. Williams 16:11
It seems like, especially with Instagram, and social media channels, I know we had brought someone else on that had designed other parts of the country in Minnesota, I think we're celebrating our 75th anniversary for like the Parade of Homes, which is the oldest in the country, actually. Oh, and so which is really neat. And the builders have longtime had a lot of not power, but just influence because the building group was a very talented and super strong and you have this long history of it. Right? And you know, obviously design is so much more forward than it was 75 years ago, I would imagine. Yeah. And anyway, where I was going with this is I feel like that model is changing a little bit because you obviously now see, we talked about we kind of joke about this right? And you know, people come in, they'll show your Pinterest board and they've got 20,000 photos and you're like, and I was joking with Carl one of our architects, right? Like sometimes I wonder if our the artistry and the vision is some times compromised. Because the clients have such an idea of what they want. In some ways it can be helpful because it does in a few pictures illustrate Well, in a lot of pictures illustrate what they want. But it also comes sometimes blunts the, like creativity, creativity of it. And so it speak a little bit to that as far as how are you seeing clients come to you versus let's say, a builder or an architect bringing you in?
17:27
Yeah, and I appreciate the question actually. Because I do feel like that is something that we actively can, you know, kind of deal with, because we first of all, never want to just copy someone else's work. So if a client comes to us, and they say, I want this kitchen, you know that to us doesn't feel, you know, right, or ethical and a couple of ways. But also, you know, we are, you know, our studio is a creative studio full of creatives with great ideas. And so it's it's also, you know, I have to protect myself and my staff and go, you know, kind of seek projects that allow us to do our best work. And so, you know, it's a tension sometimes between giving the client what they want, or what they think they want, and delivering to them what what you would like for their, you know, for their home and space, and it is a dance. I mean, it's definitely, you know, can be tricky sometimes. But the way that I personally approach it is that, you know, we we encourage clients at the front end to give us all of all of the images or all of the ideas sometimes, you know, we have clients that don't use Pinterest, but they're like, here's this handful of rocks, you know, this
Mark D. Williams 18:32
is kind of what I want to kind of like that, that would that I would actually really enjoy. That's
18:35
really fun, right? But he's like, you know, he's like, I don't use, I don't use the computer much. And I have no interest in Pinterest. But I want my house to feel like this. And we're like, okay, cool. But then we have some people that have been working and saving for years and have mountains of inspiration. And so we asked them at the beginning to send us all of that, because it really does help, it really helps us see what their vision is. And often before we take a client, I really am trying to also investigate some of that ahead of time, because as much as we want the project that's perfect for us, I you know, they should feel like we're the perfect fit for them too. And I want to be able to, you know, to know that I can actively execute what they're looking for, if not better. But yeah, so so we get around that by both asking for that information ahead of time. So you know, it's not like they're hiding it from us. But also to them, what we do is we take that information and ideas that we have and combine it into what we call like a concept design concept phase. So it's like a storytelling phase. It's a phase where we show images and ideas and you participated in one of these with our shared client right now. But it's basically us testing ideas as well, and seeing what they might be receptive to and what they might not be. But usually at that phase is kind of where we get clients to move away from what they what might be in their heads exclusively. Because I heard the phrase one time that you know if you just if so if your kid It comes to you and says, you know, this is a beautiful landscape I made, I just want you to draw a tree but you like, but I know it needs the sky. And you don't draw the sky. For them, it's like, well, then you just gave them what they wanted. But you know, our job, I think, is to expand what people think they want. And so we do that carefully and thoughtfully and respectfully. Through through a very tried and trusted process,
Mark D. Williams 20:22
I can say it's funny, and I guess, I'm not somebody that holds my cards, I would be I think it'd be a terrible poker player, somebody who wants to earn money, you should probably invite me to your poker game, because I probably lose a lot of it. I don't have a great poker face. I had a former office manager and he you couldn't, that guy could not hide anything. You just see it immediately. And we joke that neither one of us, you know, whatever, be invited to Poker Night because well, actually, we probably should be invited poker night. But anyway, that where I go with this is like, when you're doing your pitch, and showing it like I get so excited. It's so hard for me not to react. Yeah, no, it's not what sort of, I mean, ultimately, if someone's working with me, they know I'm an emotional rainbow. I've got lots of colors. And so you know, that's just part of the
21:02
deal. That's the fun emotion of it. This should be a fun process for clients, like some for a lot of our clients. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity. And so I feel like treating that with the respect it deserves. But also with the funnet commands is like, part of part of what makes this job really great.
Mark D. Williams 21:20
Yeah, I get so excited about some of the like, the some of the things that you were pitching, I'm like, I don't even know I like that. I'm like, yes, please pick that. Yeah. And you're you're trying not to influence it, but you sort of our influencing it just by reading energy. Like, what? I'm blanking on it. The what's the rug term? Again, the word changes colors. Oh, an ombre ombre? Oh, yeah. That I really wanted that rug? Sadly, I don't think we did. That's too expensive on this project. But it was so amazing. So I remember seeing it for the first time. Like, I had no idea I wanted that.
21:52
Well. And I think too, you know, for us, I've learned at the beginning, I was much more cautious about I think, kind of showing clients some of my ideas or some of the way that I would like to approach their project, just because I felt like, oh, I don't know, maybe they don't want to see it. But I've learned like, That's ridiculous, first of all, but second of all, you know, like, so many of our clients are limited by what they see. And it's my job to to make that all better and to give them our best work every time. And so, you know, I feel like through that concepting phase, we build a lot of trust, for them to then allow us to make full selections. So we work a little different in this way. Glad you
Mark D. Williams 22:34
brought that up. So maybe I'll just give you my overview. Yeah. Okay. And then I'll tell you, most of the designers that I've worked with in my career, I don't know that x number, maybe five to 810 designers, I don't know, they've all had a different process than you. And it actually makes more sense. Now, knowing your backstory, like you built this differently. So I want to get into the psychology behind how you do it. Because when you first pitch it to me, my first reaction was like, I'm not sure Clark was like, Oh, God, I'm not sure clients gonna go for. It sounds like very bold. And those listening, just wait, you'll hear it in because like, usually a design process is, you know, you meet with them, you know, well usually have a concept of the plan already drawn out so that, you know, we know what we're designing, that will bring in the interior designer, they'll, they'll have a match, like, yes, I want to work with Juliet, that's great. You know, you'll start then picking up on selections, you know, everyone has their own thing. Like it might be countertops, first, it might be tile, lighting, whatever they're like bulk selection, bulk selections, and then you refine from there. But it's kind of like this volleyball, it's like back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. It's your approach is a little bit different. You do a little bit of that in the front end, and then you're like, I'm gonna talk to you, I'm gonna disappear in a cave for like, three days. Yeah, for three months. And then I have come back and we're gonna talk to you, and I'm gonna nail it. And here it is. And I remember hearing that and I remember keeping a straight face and be like, Oh, shit, oh, yeah, I I'm, I'm, I'm very curious to see how this is gonna go. I trusted you because I knew your aesthetic. And I think that's what it comes down to people have to trust. Walk us through how you came up with that. And how was it successful, just walk me through the process, because it is very novel to me. And I am I'm just
24:00
it is really different. It is really different. And I've learned that but again, not knowing anything about the design industry. At the beginning, it was like, Yeah, this is how I'm going to work. But for me, I knew that I don't do my best work under pressure. So like, if I had to go to a showroom with a client, for example, without having like a really firm idea of what I wanted them to see, and how I was putting together you know, kind of the pieces of the puzzle, I knew I wouldn't perform my best because I would feel overwhelmed myself, I would feel not super confident in my, you know, in my choices or my decisions. And I feel like as much as design is about the creative side, it's also about the selling side, it's also about being able to, to communicate clearly to the client, what your vision is, and why your vision is is what it is for their space. And it's an incredibly intimate process. So that's where the trust is obviously super important, but I knew that I could not work like that. And also for the projects that we tend to take on um You know, we do on to completion, I say. So there are some designers that might just do the big selections, they might just do the the tile and the plumbing and you know, those kinds of things. But we do we think of spaces in totality. And that's how my brain thinks to like, I can't tell you why a polished nickel faucet on its own is the best fit if I don't know what the tile is. And so for the way that I knew that I could deliver my best, most innovative work was by allowing, you know, a really robust concept phase to happen, where I got all the information I needed to know like, does this client like living finishes? How do they feel about, you know, asymmetrical arrangements? Do they have a preference around, you know, pretty much everything in anything. I knew that by collecting that information, I would have what I needed then to kind of make make the selections. And I feel like, we're also a little bit unique in in some ways, I think designers are definitely moving this direction. But you know, we don't source locally, really, for a lot of stuff. All of our stuff that we get is is nationwide and worldwide.
Mark D. Williams 26:05
Well, you mean like South Africa for flowing fixtures and Turkey for your? Like, wow, I was like, Well, can I love to travel? And so mainly because I've been stuck, you know, and the child years, and we're just now getting to a point where we can, you know, take them abroad. Plus COVID happened, you know, I don't know if you know what happened. And that was that was you couldn't go anywhere. And but so I just love so nostalgic about things that are outside the country for no other reason. It's just like, it's not fun. Yeah. So going back to specifically, why do you? I mean, there's certainly a lot of things are imported here, that showrooms you can look at. But why did you make early on a decision? Like you were just going to go elsewhere for sourcing? Just more interesting personal like, Yeah, I
26:44
think honestly, when I did my own project, I found like, it's pretty limiting, you know, what's available? And I feel like, yeah, just more interesting. I don't know, I think sometimes when you source from different places to like, you get a completely different perspective on materials. And you know, getting out of a showroom. So like even shopping in a showroom, for me, honestly, is hard. Because I'm such like a, I don't know, I need to quietly think about it first before I find a place for it, if that makes sense. And so being able to shop online and being able to like really think thoroughly about things was really helpful for me. But also to I think we don't want to repeat, we don't want to create a space that's already been created. And so by shopping worldwide, you never run out of options, right?
Mark D. Williams 27:34
And because locally, people are curating things for the showrooms. It's more on trends. Do you see those trends more often? Where if you're I get it, right? How does? So one thing I learned was it was in England that the threads were reversed? Or what was the thread thing that we ran into? Oh, yeah.
27:47
Yeah, I tried to ask Mark to put in some British facets for us. But he didn't do it
Mark D. Williams 27:53
turns out the threads turns out don't do it turns out threads were like, Yeah, don't do that. It's a little bit like the northern and southern hemisphere where like the water drains the opposite direction and the southern hemisphere from the northern. Evidently, if you're in England or the UK buying threaded, they don't know machines must not thread the same don't want to do even though they're in North America or northern latitude. I don't get it. Okay. Well, we'll talk about we'll bring on some from England sometime. Michael. So walk us through like your design process. So you mentioned that started there is need to kind of internalize and kind of self reflected in terms of how you design in your head? Where are you getting inspiration? I mean, is it on Instagram? Are you gave your go to like, how are you? How are you getting all this information? Because if you're going on, you know, different websites country go tos, and then I guess just walk us through, like, how do you source stuff? And how do you get inspired for a particular client? Yeah,
28:42
I think people are surprised that are at our work sometimes, because they're like, it's really, it can be very varied, right, like a lot of designers have a specific, a very specific aesthetic, and you kind of see it, and you kind of know, I think our work is like that somewhat. But honestly, I'm super inspired by the client and by their house. So, you know, most of the houses that we work on tend to be either like, you know, historically gorgeous, or architecturally significant. Or if, you know, we do new constructions, as well. And so our job is to kind of build all that in. But I honestly am inspired by kind of the the origin story of our of the client in their house, and even by their neighborhood sometimes. So, you know, we're lucky that the majority of our clients come to us because they want they want to see themselves in their house in a way that you know, they don't currently and so I feel like it's my job. And where I get my inspiration from is really trying to figure out what what that feeling that they want in their house is and what moments of surprise and delight they might want to experience so that I can kind of build that in like, yeah, that's why I do a robust concepting phase is because that's how I that's how I learn an interview and listen to our client. trance is by through that process
Mark D. Williams 30:02
do you feel? And I was gonna ask this earlier in the interview, but do you feel that your prior work? Yeah. How does that translate into helping you now you was at a psychiatric? Yeah. So I mean, you can make a lot of jokes here about you know, it's Yeah, I was a therapist for all which we had another one that's another actually interior designers on that was actually a psychology major. Well, that's helpful. Yeah. How have you found either you've already mentioned the documentation, from a medical point of view was helpful for organizing information, how has your previous career and training and just methodology and understanding people helped you navigate design?
30:38
Well, I think people underestimate how how many interpersonal relationships are at play to make a project successful, right? It's like our relationship as a designer and a builder. Sometimes there's conflict, like you didn't want to put in my process,
Mark D. Williams 30:49
I do everything you say, well, the fastest didn't happen. Yeah. But was it because of me? Or because of the primary couldn't get him? To expense? Yeah, right.
30:57
But it's, you know, at the end of the day, everything boils down to relationships, it boils down to how you treat people, it boils down to how you present yourself. And, you know, I feel like it's a, it's, it's a, it's all interpersonal work. It's all a team. And so I think, you know, coming from a background where, you know, my job was, was to listen and process and kind of spit back to people what they were saying and reflect back, I feel like, that's a lot of what I still do, it's just obviously a very different medium. But, you know, equally as important how you want your space that you live in everyday to feel and function is super critical. And I, we take it super seriously. I think that's the other thing is for us, obviously, interior designers, I think can get a bad rap for, like I said earlier, just kind of like being interested in pillows and fabrics and stuff, you
Mark D. Williams 31:47
can't see the iris is significant.
31:51
And I think, you know, most interior designers aren't like that. But there's a reputation out there. And, you know, we are super serious about our work. And I think most people would be surprised that we spend most of our time actually in the technical weeds side of things, but also in the like, how does the space want to feel? And how can these materials support what the client wants to experience? And I think that, that all of that work is part and parcel to what I did in the past, which is taking someone whose, you know, life or circumstances or environment aren't working for them and help in that transformational process? And it's, it's definitely not the same. But it's, it's, it's the same sort of, I think, approach in so many ways. For me at least
Mark D. Williams 32:37
No, I think that's helpful. I like it's a different medium, but a similar set of circumstances. Yeah.
32:42
And I think that in order for me to have made this career change, like I could get choked up about it, but I feel like, you know, I needed to know, I could make my own meaning out of it. Like, I needed to know that I could, you know, not only do like an awesome job, like have people love what we do, but I also needed to know that like what I was doing was actually a value to the people who are paying us to do it. And I think that that's to where like being able to come to someone with a completed selections packet really helps me feel like, I've thought so much about you. And I have thought so much about why these selections are what I think are the best fit for you. And it really is like an emotional, I'm kind of getting choked out. But it really is an emotional process for me. Because there's a part of you, yeah, it's a creator, it's you're putting out some of the most vulnerable parts of who you are in that process. And so for me, I knew that in order to you know, I've been committed from day one to put my best work out there first. So, you know, revisions happen, and clients make, you know, choices. And sometimes they actually designs get better that that does happen. But I always wanted to make an effort to always put our best foot forward every time and in order to do that. I knew that like I needed time to think about who these people that we're working with are.
Mark D. Williams 33:59
I think that's really honest approach because you understand yourself very well. I feel like you know, you're very mature in that sense, like, well, especially for starting I mean, it feels like a lot of times you have to have a company for a number of years to understand your voice. I mean, I think my life just midlife. Yeah, oh, maybe okay, maybe they should have started a career because I feel like in some ways, you know, I'm in year 19 In some ways, I feel like I'm like in year two, right? Because the last couple of years for myself personally has been, I've completely not changed my identity. We've kind of certain things but yeah, the rebranding really, I guess understanding who and what I am and what value I bring, but that comes with maturity. You know, boys take a lot longer me specifically so you know, I might identify as a 42 year old but my inner child is somewhere in his teens for sure.
34:43
But I think that that's important is like you know, as much as our businesses are like their own entities and I have to remind myself frequently that I am not my business like that we are actually separate entities. i You are intertwined and you're connected with If your business, you know, kind of no matter what, but I do think it is important to know as much as what we give to our business and our clients like what we also want out of it as, as humans. And I think that that's where my like life journey to this point got me which was, I could have a career doing this one thing and be relatively happy, I think. But I also am like, interested in a lot of stuff. So like, I wanted to feel fulfilled in my life as well. Did you
Mark D. Williams 35:28
have business owners or mentors or entrepreneurship around you at a young age? What made you I'm always inspired by people, anybody? I mean, the reason I have this podcast is because I love businesses. I love people that are like, I'm gonna start a business. I'm passionate about passionate about it. How did you because I've heard this joke before that you either have, you're either influenced because someone influences you to become or you become an entrepreneur, because like, the other doors are closed, and you're like, Darn, I'm gonna do this. How would you describe your own path? It doesn't sound like it's either one of them doesn't understand. Wow.
36:02
You heard it here first. No, honestly, I come from a blue collar family. All of my family members, all my immediate family members. My dad was a cement truck driver in the city of Chicago, his whole life, my uncle's are like trash men. So I grew up in a very blue collar. I grew up on this, you know, in the Chicago area. So nobody I knew close how to business like it was just not kind of available to me. Sure. Well, actually shouldn't say that my grandparents had a business. But anyway, they sold it kind of when I was young, but anyway. Yeah, I don't know. I think honestly, when I was going through that kind of midlife change, getting out of social work, getting into design. I felt honestly, like, I wasn't good enough to work for someone else. That that was like a question I had, in my mind.
Mark D. Williams 36:54
I'm not good enough to work for somebody else. I'm gonna start a business.
36:57
Well, I just felt like if I failed, then it was on you. It was on me.
Mark D. Williams 37:01
So actually kind of makes sense. Yeah.
37:03
Right. Like, I felt like I you know what, I think not having a design degree as much as I would have wanted to work for someone else. I have a lot of insecurities about it as well. And so I felt like I knew that if I if I just started my own design firm that I could build in the support I needed to make it successful and to like, have the end product I wanted. So I don't know. So I think my my journey towards design in business ownership was more out of insecurity than it was out of like a desire. Even now I'm like, Oh my God, why did I start? This business is insane. Now I done
Mark D. Williams 37:42
it is funny to go back and you know, for myself was like, 2004 and I go back. I'm like, you know, you don't? I was 24 years old. I didn't know what I didn't know. Yeah, you're like, oh, yeah, I mean, who I'm just gonna build a house on a whim. Sure. $600,000 house? Sure. I'll go for it. Like no idea what I was doing now. We won't go into my whole story now. But like, the whole point of it was like now looking back, especially Yeah, I think more courage or more credit to you. You had a family. I can't imagine starting a business after I already had a family. Don't talk to my husband. Don't ask me actually coming on next. We're starting something new on the careers builder, we're actually going to interview the spouses. Actually, that would be phenomenal. That would be kind of fun to do spouses Roundup,
38:19
he, I would say I couldn't have done it without him. And I don't and I don't mean that like woowoo at all. In all honesty, we have a you know, we had two of our sons. We have two sons, but they're both sick this week. He's home with he's home with them when they're sick. Now he's the one that does the grocery runs, he does the school pickups. And I worked I mean, to get to this point. I mean, obviously, it took an insane amount of time and effort. And so I feel like sometimes it's like, Oh, you just arrived? And you know, it turned out great. And here you are. But I think what a lot of a lot of people don't see but experience if you're designing or if you're a business owner is how much it takes to get to where you are the hustle. People don't see that. Yeah, totally. And I hustle a lot still. And so I think, you know, it's important to recognize him, I think specifically, at least for me, because I he was the one who was like, you can do this. Of course you can, you know, and he was probably the only person in my life at that time. That could give me the courage to do it because he knew that like I carried the life insurance at my job. I had stable vacation. I had the ability to take time off for doctor's appointments if I needed it, and he knew by going into business ownership, all of that was gonna go away. So I feel like him giving me permission to also like explore this for me was like a gift that you can't give yourself.
Mark D. Williams 39:42
That is a beautiful gift and kudos to him. What's his name? Kenny. Kenny, Kenny Miller, Kenny Miller. Good job, Kenny. That's interesting. I remember some somebody once gave me the permission to fail. Yeah. And I remember it was after that moment that I felt like my wings spread and I kind of flew Yeah. cuz it was like you don't, you don't want to fail you don't but like someone said, it's okay to fail. And then of course, you know, you self educate read all these books like, you know, the Abraham Lincoln is one of my favorite I think he like failed to win an election for like, yeah like 20 Different elections that he failed it I should actually have it on the podcast sometimes it's actually pretty hilarious read right at the very end he's like, you know, the president I'd states and considered one of the best presidents ever you definitely have to fail, but it seems like every single business owner that you'll talk to, you know, it's not all you know, roses and no Instagram likes know for sure exactly. Yeah. And the world we live in now just the social, there's a lot of pros to social. I mean, we would not have met without, yeah, right. It's true. And so there are a ton of pros, if you consider being in my friend a pro, that's still under consideration. But, yeah, anyway, just understanding that everyone's time is changing. Every generation has different things that they have to contend with, right.
40:54
And I think too, like I was, I was conversing on Instagram with someone that I know, on Instagram, I don't know them in real life. But um, you know, she was saying something like, oh, my gosh, this is such a great space. And I was like, what you don't see are the, like, nearly $5,000 in samples we had to do to get to this point, or like the trial and error it took to, you know, really nail this tile transition. And I think that that's why it's super important to me, while Instagram and having a beautiful presence is obviously like, imperative to our success. And you know, getting the word out there about what we do. But that's why I think it has to be super personal for me is because that's like a fleeting moment, someone scrolls past that likes it once. And that was three years in my life.
Mark D. Williams 41:42
It's like, it's like your wedding photos. Yeah, or like your family photo, right. And you're like, Oh, your beautiful family, actually, my son was melting down before that photo shoot totally. And so because it's a moment in time, I think it's very well celebrated. But it's good to remember how difficult it is I often will describe to people when we first meet with them and interview with them. Just that, you know, someone described it as open heart surgery, which is a little drastic, my wife is a physician. So it's like, you know, it's not quite kinda sorta like not life threatening, but not really. It can be a crowbar downs. But but also understand that like, it's art that you're doing with a community of people you just mentioned, you're an artist. I mean, you are, you're a very creative person. There's also art is
42:21
only as good as it can be built. And that's what I think is the unique component of being an interior designer, right is like most of us don't build our work. And so that's where the technical side is crucial for me is because I'm heavily invested in every detail coming together perfectly. But if I don't have the information to support that to my build partners, then it's, you know, it's my last well, on top
Mark D. Williams 42:43
of that you have skill level, right. So you also have the Client Hello, we have a client that we have to consider too, right. And so to me, it's a collaborative art project. That's difficult. I don't know that much about songwriting. But I have to believe if you have five people all contributing on lyrics, that's got to be impossible, right? I mean, it seems to me like you know, Paul McCartney wrote or John Lennon wrote, or, you know, whoever and then the rest kind of, I don't know how it works. I should probably speak to a musician. Yeah, not me, not me. Not a musician. But it's anyway, the collaborative process, I actually enjoy it a ton, because everyone kind of shares their opinion. I have often used this analogy that as a team, I think of a choir, think of 100 person choir singing you can sing really loud, but you know, like, Pavarotti, right you know, famous tenor, you know, incredible voice, but he's still only one person. You can be 100 people singing, you won't even hear Pavarotti. I do feel like building as a concert. I have under described myself as an analogy, because evidently, I don't speak in English. I only speak analogies to my clients.
43:36
And I can validate that people are
Mark D. Williams 43:39
like, Wait, why is that what was happening here? I can't stop it. But anyway, what is it rose again with this? Oh, that I'm a conductor of a choir. My I've had a number of people say like, what do you actually do? Right, like thinking that I would? Why do I need a GC? Why do I even need for why, you know, why do you charge this? Why do you charge that? You know, ultimately, you know, it's a little bit like the coach of the team, you know, the coach of the football team is not throwing passes or catching but obviously, you know, you look at, you know, some very famous coaches, they are responsible for their team being successful, you know, or they're also successfully, you know, they're also responsible for the team failing and it does, unfortunately, you know,
44:20
strategic, I think that that's the thing is it's a lot more strategic and about positioning people to be successful. And you know, and that takes a lot of collaboration.
Mark D. Williams 44:30
One thing that you mentioned earlier that your first jobs were not even in Minnesota, I've noticed just following Instagram, of course that you know, Sun Valley, Idaho, you go to these beautiful places, walk walk us through, like how have you expanded outside the state? Some of the other architects I've had on it seems like, you know, maybe 30% of the work now Minnesota is a very strong architecture. influence across the country. It seems like with very talented architects, and builders like myself, it's harder for us to expand beyond because how I'm only as good as my people right got that. actually model is changing. There's a few builders I've talked to. And I've curious about that. We're all Yeah, I mean, it's too early. But I mean, we're looking at Nashville, potentially, of working with some local people there. And it's kind of opened up my eyes. I'm like, Oh, how would this work? Exactly? Because maybe is it my own limitations on what actually, I bring? You know, back to this thing? Like, I know if I trust good people, right. You know, if I empower them, right, then ultimately, I'm a figurehead or the conductor of the orchestra playing in a different state, you still need executors? Yeah. And so I think it's more common for designers and
45:34
architects, because our work is much more malleable in that way. And it can be done from
Mark D. Williams 45:38
a distance. I mean, I will say COVID dataset always taught us that everything can be on Zoom. Yeah. Which is odd. Because this podcast, it was very important to me that all the interviews be in person. Yeah. And so I feel like you just get so much more emotion. And I just, I like people. So you know, I wanted to be with people, number one. Number two, I really want to celebrate Minnesota businesses. Yeah. And so it was much easier to be allowed to fly in. They're already here.
45:59
That's right. Yeah. So our work, you know, across the country, I think started, you know, because our firm started on Instagram, basically, as well. So like people nationwide had access to us right away. But I also think, to like our very first projects out of state, you know, we followed the same process that we have now for those projects. And I think, some of the additional work that we've gotten out in those spaces after, you know, our initial projects have been because builders or architects feel like they want to work with with us and how we handle our projects and stuff. And so there's like a dependability there that I feel like we've kind of developed in some of these communities, which has been really great. But I also think, like, as much as were malleable with our aesthetic, and I think, like I said earlier, you know, we do we do a lot of different styles of work, you know, at the threat of it, you know, you got to kind of like what you see, or you got to kind of believe that we can do it. But I think that that also allowed us to attract really great clients for us right away. And, you know, a great client for us is it takes a lot of ingredients, but one of the main ones is like, you know, aesthetic kind of like, agreement, you know, so while while they may ask us to do something we've never done before, we're definitely going to filter it through the way that we think about things and you know, things like that our values for us like high quality materials, and we do as much natural material as we can we try and force the land. Is that
Mark D. Williams 47:28
one of the tone, I don't know how to describe it in you know, looking on your website, doing a little research, obviously, no, you but just kind of, you know, looking at it all again, because you know what, sometimes when you know someone, you you, you think you know things, but then you go back and you're like, especially for an interview, you're like, oh, wow, this is actually I didn't realize that this is what I like, I've noticed that kind of the concert of the whole picture of your like, everything is very on brand for you i which I assume is deliberate and intention, but like, is it website, your Instagram, your branding? But even like all the photos that you have is very totally in sync? Yes, it is that? Obviously, I assume that's by design? Can you speak a little bit to that thought process behind that?
48:05
Well, and again, I think it all draws back to, you know, kind of how we approach projects. And also like how we see, you know, the design world, I guess, but yeah, we're like, I'm like an outdoor person. I'm like, you know, I like the natural world more than I like the unnatural world. And so I think that that all comes through, right, and I think when you have a consistent palette of materials, you know that you get a theme kind of through your work. But I think what makes our work really enjoyable is that each client is different. So how we interpret what might be some of the same materials, you know, looks very different because some clients want a kitchen with all really intricately detailed integrated hardware on their cabinets or something like that, which is what we love to do, but or some clients want, you know, white oak in a different way in their house, they want it as you know, a side table or something like that. So, you know, all these materials obviously are consistent, but how we use them and interpret them is very, very different based on what client we have and also where we are so like some of our Sun Valley projects. You know, like those are those are even more outdoorsy than Minnesota. A lot of Minnesotans are
Mark D. Williams 49:17
did get the right you're in a community and that community has kind of caught fire for you like hey, this designers really got to go on we love their style. And so you've worked with other builders, the same builder other clients explained to me this community thing like because you've done more than one in Sun Valley.
49:30
Yeah, we're working on four. So we what we've done one, we're in process on three others a
Mark D. Williams 49:36
friend's like, how did that happen? Yeah. So
49:38
the first two that we got there were just coincidental. Honestly, coincidental. They both independently found us. But then these other two that we have, and they're kind of a different brand of work for us there too. I hate to use the word spec houses because they're not there. They're in their single family, multimillion dollar homes, so they're definitely not like something that you buy Repeat, I guess you buy this house. So it's a developer, and he actually was the property manager for one of the projects we did. And he was like, Hey, I just, you just have to make, you just have to recreate this vibe for my houses. And so he hired us to do to
Mark D. Williams 50:17
kudos to him. I mean, that's pretty forward thinking, because a lot of times in design, I've never been a great spec home builder, right column, because I tend, and where I do things too nicely,
50:26
and so on with us. And we, and that was part of the condition was like, Hey, we're not we're, we're, we're kind of not those people. If you're just looking for really quick selections, we're gonna, we're gonna approach this project with the same amount of time and money that we do for our other work. Because, again, you know, for me, it's such an emotional undertaking. And also, like, we have a brand. And so, you know, I want to keep working in Sun Valley. And I want a reputation out there that's consistent. And so, you know, they agreed to it. And we're doing some, you know, really interesting, fun things. We're challenging them a lot from what they've done in the past. But I think having the best compliment to me is having someone experience our work and being able to say, I don't know what it is, but I want that feeling for my own home or someone else's home. It's like, you can't you can't beat that. No. And I think that that's what ultimately builds the most trust. So these guys are like, Oh, my goodness, you're gonna make me spend $200,000 on cabinetry. We've never done that before. And I'm like, I don't care you have to do
Mark D. Williams 51:25
out of touch I was early on in my career. I mean, I used to take photos of our homes when they were empty. You know, y'all. Oh, yeah. Right. But this is obviously when I'm in my young 20s. You don't know anything. There's no social media at this time. You're just like, God, you know, Hey, before the people move in, I got a quick and that was before we had, you know, people spending a lot of money on furniture and staging and now understanding like a magazine shot. I mean, you know this because you said, you know, I mean, the Kelly keygens is writing your stories, you were doing an article with her, they actually this fall, and but just like the photography, yeah, you could do the best project in the world, but shoot it terribly or not have it staged, and you shouldn't even air it. And you could also have a space that architecturally is probably not, you know, let's say you're not celebrating the house, you're celebrating that moment, or that vignette, or this little small spot. And it can be just incredible space. Exactly. So a lot of it is that and then now a whole nother talent level, the photographer, the stylist, there's so much more that goes into this. You know, I think that that, actually, that'd be interesting. Sorry, I'm having a random moment, we should definitely have a photographer stylist on that would actually be a really interesting point of view of how how to make these spaces look amazing. Yes.
52:27
And it is. And that's where it's like all this, this teamwork comes together to because our work again, like, you know, it's, it's obviously only as good as it can be built, right. So like, you have to be able to build it and has to be done well, but also it has to be, you know, kind of captured with the essence that we want it to be captured, which was, which is also I think our work is comes across as very similar as because our approach to styling and photography is pretty consistent. And that mood that we want to create, like my car right now is full of stuff for shoot we have tomorrow. But yeah, it's that layering process that happens that I think gets you to that final product. And it's cathartic for me to find to shoot a house and to capture it. Yeah, and it's a good closing on
Mark D. Williams 53:12
top the cake has been made, you just put in the cherry on top. It's true. And it's fun. That's interesting. What so right now of your clients, you have 21 clients, how many of them are client to client or client to you versus like in our relationship as a business I brought you to meet the client,
53:27
I would say we're probably 5050 5050 mix for you.
Mark D. Williams 53:33
I mean, is that it is because
53:34
sometimes, you know, an architect or a builder, or even a referral from a friend of a past client will come to us. And we I find that it is harder to find alignment, sometimes with those referrals, which sounds counterintuitive. But we are we approach our work pretty specifically. And I think you know, our aesthetic, while broad is also very fairly specific. And so we find that, you know, kind of the referral match is often harder than the we love you we want to work with you match.
Mark D. Williams 54:06
So it's no longer 2018 we say yes to everything. Oh,
54:09
yeah, no, we're pretty. Now we're in a in a really great position to be able to be selective, but again, it's it's selective to protect my team and their creativity. But it's also selective because I know I'm not the designer for everybody. And so there are some projects now that I just know, I can't I can't deliver what they what they're looking for, and they deserve to have someone who can
Mark D. Williams 54:34
isn't that funny how knowing. I mean, it's maturity, we spoke about that. But knowing your voice, knowing who you are, knowing what you can deliver. And being clear with that messaging is really empowering. And I think it's respectful. I spoken this previously with another builder on the podcast, but you know, even like defining your time with family, right and someone in my career, give me some good advice. And, you know, hey, you know, we're, you know, you can't make a dentist's appointment at nine o'clock on a Tuesday night. You know, why do clients think that they can trying to call you or come see, it just just doesn't work. That being said, you know, I had a client from out of town say, hey, Sunday afternoon, we're gonna make an offer on property. Okay, well, that's an unusual circumstance, you know, I'll go well gotta know when to flex. Yeah, for sure. But in general, like, this is a long relationship. And so and this is my life. Yes. Yep. I think it's because it's so personal. That yeah, you know, people really buy into that. And that's a whole nother podcast, I, we don't have a whole lot of time, it just had a few more questions that I really want to have to you on again, because we didn't get through half of my questions, which isn't surprising. One of the things that you do on Instagram, since you had so much success there, you know, on Sundays you do what things that I like, walk me through that that thought process? Because well, let me I'm gonna take a few guesses. Okay. Oh, no, okay, we should know this. But like, I feel like I see a lot of designers do this. And it's kind of like, usually people say, hey, everything Monday through Friday is pictures of my own work. And they kind of, you know, whatever they're trying to portray there. But then on the weekends are like, hey, here are the things that I'm interested in almost a way to, like, you know, garner attention? Or is it more of a creative outlet? Because it's a way of you just sharing with the world, like, this is what I really like, and then people will see that you like it? And then is, am I um, it's
56:11
both and it's both. It's both? And it's Yeah, I think for me, I started doing it, like, very, very, like a long time ago, because I didn't have a portfolio of work to show, right. So I really had to use existing imagery respectfully, of course, but I had to really use existing stuff to show prospective clients, like, what I was interested in and what I what I could potentially do for them. And so it first started off as Yeah, as like, kind of that like, Hey, these are things that we are super interested in could be good at, you know, maybe you see yourself in some of these images. So definitely kind of like, yeah, somewhat of a marketing effort, I guess you could say. But I think also too, like, we see so many images, at least in you know, our field where it's constant. Like we're constantly looking at the smallest of details, sometimes in photos, and we're always looking, I guess, yeah, at inspiration or ideas. And I think now for me, it's less like, Hey, this is you know, what we're capable of, or what we're interested in, it's more like, Hey, this is these are things that are, you know, also important to us. So sometimes it's quote, or sometimes it's like a place in the world that we want to visit. But I think regardless, it's it's creating like a multi dimensional self in some ways. And yeah, I like it, because I feel like it helps me remember to look for things I'm not always looking for. So like, as I'm scrolling, I'm like, Oh my God, that's super cool. And sometimes I might pass a bike because it's not relevant. But I'm like, Oh, I got Sunday saves coming up. I'll save it.
Mark D. Williams 57:45
So you save it just more practical side of it. So you're saving as you go throughout the week. You're
57:50
literally saves that it's see it's saved on Instagram you so you can use it. Do you know how to save?
Mark D. Williams 57:55
I do I save a lot. Yeah, mainly for my personal stuff. Like, you know, hey, the next day, we're gonna actually, we're gonna do a cabin here at some point. And so by the time this airs, we'll be probably talking about on Instagram, but basically, yeah, so anyway, yes, I'll say save me go. So you just save it. And then you
58:08
base and it's literally what I saved that mine is pretty literal. Yeah, what I saved that week,
Mark D. Williams 58:13
you can publish that whole thing straight out. You have to do it
58:15
one by one. Okay. Yeah. And I, you know, I'm careful with it. Because obviously, like, you know, you still want to communicate a certain message, but I'm more loose with it now. Like I you know, yeah. Like, yeah,
Mark D. Williams 58:27
this is what I like, right? Well, we're at the end of time. I just have a few rapid fire questions. Oh, geez. A New Vogue. Okay. How do you self educate?
58:36
How do I self educate?
Mark D. Williams 58:37
Yeah. Are you podcast listeners, listen to books like, what is your form? Because you're running a business. We didn't get to dive into a ton on the business. A few helpful beginning. Are you a big podcast listener?
58:47
I'm a big listener. Yeah, cuz I run a lot. And so I listen to a lot of podcasts. And I drive around a lot. So I love
Mark D. Williams 58:53
podcasts over like, I love audiobooks. Beginning and recently, obviously, I have a few podcasts that I listened to. If you're listening to this, you know, you're at the best podcast. At least for Minnesota, for this episode, at least for this episode, obviously. But so like, what podcasts are you into?
59:11
So there's a couple of interior design podcasts that I listened to, there's like, the business of design. For it now I'm forgetting the names of them all. But they were they were actually super imperative and also helping me figure out structure for my for how to do a business. So when I was like, 2019, I was just like, literally, I viewing as many design and business podcasts as I could, because I was like, you know, I got one shot, I'm gonna either take it or not, and so I'm gonna make it so I also do a lot of a lot of design business podcasts. But I also listen to like a lot of long form story podcasts to like, I don't know, like I'm in kind of a season of listening to people who are wrongfully about people who are wrongfully convicted.
Mark D. Williams 59:55
That's so funny. Everyone is into crime or there's a Yeah, true crime.
59:59
Yeah. Um, but I but again, it's like that old brain of mine, right? Like how this happened. I'll mental health components all that kind of stuff but okay.
Mark D. Williams 1:00:07
All right very good. If you could go back to the beginning, what advice would you give yourself in 2018? Or 19? I was actually isn't that long ago? No, but it seems like a long time
1:00:17
because it feels like a lifetime ago. Um, I would say it's gonna be okay. You know,
Mark D. Williams 1:00:24
just listen to Kenny Kenny had your back. He did. He
1:00:26
really did. And all my friends did too. I mean, I hesitated even tell people what I was doing because I was just like, I just need to like, create on my own. But yeah, I think that the I think I would just give myself reassurance. Okay, you know, okay, it'll work out.
Mark D. Williams 1:00:40
We're in the beginning stages of 23. What are you most excited about this year? Oh, man.
1:00:45
Well, obviously, a lot of projects we have coming up. I feel like 2022 was a year of heavy design work for us and 2023. As you know, these are like multi year projects. So 2023 Especially at the end, we're capturing like some that we've been working on for three years.
Mark D. Williams 1:01:01
Oh, my. Yeah, that's all the photos. Yeah. And yeah, the kind of the coming the end of the exactly.
1:01:06
I was just counting we have six projects in cabinetry right now if that gives you an indication of kind of where we're at with our lineup, but I'm super excited for that. But also we are maybe doing a custom cabinetry line. We're working in partnership, so that's exciting. Yeah, and also the young cottage so I have a cottage project that I'm working on for your own personal home. It'll be Airbnb. Oh, very cool. What
Mark D. Williams 1:01:33
What town isn't or wasn't Schroeder? It's
1:01:35
south of Luton. Okay, that's on the North Shore.
Mark D. Williams 1:01:37
Very cool. Yeah, I've seen you post some stuff on it and know the whole backstory on that. Well, we could obviously talk for another hour but we couldn't time is up and we'll have to have you on you know we should do is we should have you on six months from now. To do a end of Oh, yeah. Kind of. Yeah, totally recap cottage would be done your six times. It'd be done. Personally any more any races coming up, but now
1:01:56
I'm not doing grandma's but I am doing the Fort Collins marathon.
Mark D. Williams 1:02:00
Oh. Oh, very good.
1:02:01
I should be running right now.
Mark D. Williams 1:02:02
You should be running well get out of here. If you liked this episode, please share it. The way that podcasts work is sharing, saving reviewing. Please give a call out to Julia on her social media handles. Where can everyone find you right now. But
1:02:16
we made it easy. So it's yond interiors.com. And Instagram is yond interiors.
Mark D. Williams 1:02:22
Very good. Well, everything will be in the show notes. Thank you for tuning in. And Julia, thanks for your time. Thanks, Mark. Alright,
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