Episode 24 - Rick and Amy of Hendel Homes
The Core of a Successful Business: Building Relationships and A Strong Team
Rick and Amy Hendel are the team behind Hendel Homes, they join Mark this week to share their story and how they got their start in the industry. As a married couple turned business partners, Amy and Rick discuss how they manage their business and personal relationship. They work to support each other and let us in their separate roles in the company. Emphasizing the importance of creating strong and reliable relationships, they share key team-building advice and how to create connections along your journey. They also delve into the technical aspects of business ownership, including how to deal with difficult clients and how to allocate your resources and time. It's all about planning and making intentional decisions. If you're looking to start a new business or grow an existing one, this episode is for you!
Listen to the full episode:
About Rick & Amy Hendel
Hendel Homes has a reputation for the highest level of quality in some of the Twin Cities’ most premier residences. Knowing each homeowner’s preferences and needs are different, Hendel discovers each client’s distinct priorities. By developing this strong working relationship from the start, project construction is often faster, less tedious, and more cost-effective.
Rick’s desire to build beautiful residences, while providing clients with the highest level of value, architectural authenticity, and craftsmanship, led him to create Hendel Homes. He is committed to creating a one-of-a-kind, timeless design for your residence maintaining integrity in every aspect of the process.
Amy’s design expertise, hands-on approach, and constant communication with the client create a trust and personal connection that ultimately lends itself to “peace of mind” during the process.
Resources
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Welcome to curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host and today I'm joined with Rick and Amy Hendle from Hendle Holmes. Thanks, guys.
01:23
Thanks for having us. Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 01:24
it's exciting to have you guys on I finally got you on the calendar. And here we are in person. So for those that want to watch this, you can watch it on our YouTube channel, as well as Instagram, but glad you're tuning in now. So for those that don't know you, why don't you guys give us a quick, I guess byline of who you are and what you do, and we can talk a little bit about your history.
01:45
We go all right. So we are a architectural builder here in the Twin Cities, Minneapolis, St. Paul, focus on high end, custom homes and remodels have been doing this for about 23 years. Rick got into this by complete accident, I was going to be a doctor and decided I'm going to go into medical school. And I said, he said hey, I'm thinking about being a builder. And I said, Yes, go for it. And I always joke I must have been young and in love to be like yes, be a builder. Don't be a dog. Don't be a doctor. So he went for it. And someone from the very beginning gave us advice saying start high if that's what you want to do. And so that's what we did. We started with a spec. And from there, we've just really your
02:30
first house was a spec. Well, it wasn't it was our first venture into the high end. Yeah, we did a spec. And it's quite an interesting story that we can maybe get into in the next podcast. But that's we were told that's what we should do. And that's what we tried. And it really taught us a lot. So we got into the business, kind of by accident, and not really being very naive and not really understanding what the business was all about. And
Mark D. Williams 02:57
so this was 2000 then,
02:59
yeah, 1999. So yeah, he Yeah, graduated college. And then kind of our first home was our personal home. We were we got married, built our home and and you did every pretty much everything much everything
03:14
on the house. So that was all the
Mark D. Williams 03:16
trade work yourself. Yeah,
03:17
I got into the trades, kind of by accident in school, I was studying to be a doctor had a crazy neurobiology class, and we could pick a partner. So I picked my partner, that guy was always working. And so kind of as a joke, I just said, you know, we're not going to pass this class, because you're always working and studying by myself. So how about if I get a job with you? And he said, Yeah, sure. Sounds good. Let's do it. And so I got a job as a carpenter. And I really like I love knowing how things go together, why they go together. And then I'm also I didn't realize this at the time, but I'm also very much a perfectionist in proportions and design. And so starting to realize that after I wasn't getting into medical school, I thought, You know what, this might be something for me. Yeah. So that's kind of where you
Mark D. Williams 04:00
were you taking some architectural classes at the time because you draw some to write?
04:04
No, yeah, I don't really draw much. Now I used to which I, you know, I love that part of it. I got into it. Again, very naively. I had no idea what I was doing. I spent all of our my free time running around checking out builders in town prior to homes, architects designs, searching the internet for ideas and that kind of thing and just said, Well, I got to do it myself. That's how you do this. It taught me a lot of good lessons that I can do it myself, but it's a ton of work. Yeah. And I love the building process as well, too. So I feel like I understand how things go together. I always say we solve a lot of problems. And if you can think in a 3d design sense and then also understand I mean, my backgrounds in science, so also understand the science behind these buildings that are very scientific. It really went together well, and so we were able to design Things solve problems quickly, efficiently.
05:04
Well, and we had, we had the opportunity to design things that we had no business designing some of these 10,000 12,000 square foot homes just in the beginning when they actually, you know, the ideas are out there. And I remember one time just wasn't quite quite right. And the homeowner was like, you know, I just will give you one more shot. But if, if we don't like it, we're gonna have to just go to go to this was designed design. Yeah, another architect or an architect. And so he stayed up late really late. And I never went to bed never went to bed. But it turned out and they're like, Wow, this is like nothing we've ever seen. Were you hand drawing
Mark D. Williams 05:41
at the time we're using
05:41
I was I was hand drawn, and then it would be translated into CAD through local CAD, guys. Sure. And architects. So and then now we've transitioned mostly to we only work with architects,
Mark D. Williams 05:54
right. Yeah, I mean, it's very well celebrated Minnesota for those that are listening from here. I mean, a lot of people know your story. I love the pre med side side of it. I mean, it just it also adds some cachet. I don't know what it means. But it's also nice to say like, if nothing else, it makes it seem you're smarter than you are probably.
06:08
Doctor.
Mark D. Williams 06:10
Doctor. I like that. That works. And oh, man. That's, that's, that's Wow, that's That's wild. What and what were you you were in college at the time? Or how did you guys I mean, before that, I guess? I don't know. I mean, where do you guys met, you were married at this time when you were going to school to be a doctor that
06:25
just got weird. You're just getting married? Yeah,
06:27
engaged. And we met, we met in college and then got ya got married. And from there, we I was consulting IT consulting. I did, I loved art, and I love design. So I had probably enough to have a minor in it. But you know, parents were like, do not get an art major. So I kept a business and but it really was great. Because I I had a passion for it. And if you have a passion, I think you can go as far as you want to go. So I would help out with some design and beginning and would do the financial side of things would do it. IT consulting during the day come home, do the bucks at night. I mean, you're just you're doing everything as a business owner that just
Mark D. Williams 07:06
came in at this point you had. So you're in college, you built your house in college? No, we when did that? When did you build that first house? Because that sounds like that was kind of a launching point to like even your passion? Like it sounds like you were excited about it. You built the house? And that sort of sealed the deal. Is that the right stones? or No?
07:21
No, I had kind of I've had a couple of times in my life where I've kind of struggled, said alright, what am I going to do next? prayed about it. And really that that was one of the times after I was out of school a couple of years, Amy was just getting done. And really, it was like I kind of got a jump, I gotta make a decision, and I gotta go. I don't really know anything about it. And I gotta take a big leap of faith and jump into this business and see if I can make a go at it. Which I always think is good. At some point, I didn't have a plan B, I had to make Plan A reminds
Mark D. Williams 07:51
me of like, forget who it was the keystore is coming over the burden the chips behind them. So the soldiers only had one way to go. That was the motivation, right? You can't go back, right? I mean, there are some, there's some Plan B is okay. But sometimes having only one plan and making it
08:03
work that it it forced me to really be intentional with making it work. And I loved it. I do love it though. That's the thing. I I can do it all the time. And sometimes I don't feel like I'm even working right.
08:18
And we're married and we still enjoy each other and you know, work together. And we probably talk about it too much.
Mark D. Williams 08:24
So I mean that we can answer that. Now since you've kind of gotten into it. One of the things that I love about having married couples on that are both obviously, in together into the business is how do you manage both the business relationship? And obviously, you know, your personal relationship? And you know, we've had a few others on and be curious to hear your answer to that.
08:43
You get the boxing gloves out.
Mark D. Williams 08:45
No, Amy would win every time.
08:48
No, I can see that. I'm very fortunate to have a wife that will work with me. I'm demanding. I'm a perfectionist, I'm a driver. So she but she's very good with kind of taking what I lack in filling in those gaps. And we work well with each other off of that. But you need somebody that you can, obviously somebody you can trust but somebody that you can work with and understands how you work, you understand how they work, it's it's really key in this. It's a stressful business when the business is stressful. When we're doing these custom homes are very personal to people. We've had a couple very successful people that we've worked for, and they're like, you know, I can run a billion dollar business and I can't even keep my budget straight on my house. And so it's stressful, and we need to be able to vent to each other work through problems. She's been a great supporter. You know, as you know, it's made me cry here.
Mark D. Williams 09:48
It's not it's not easy. It's a very
09:50
old it is and there's a lot of stuff that we go through. We've been we've been through some tough times too and and digging through things and so you have to have somebody there to say report you or you don't have to. If you don't, it's going to be much more difficult, I would say. And I've been very fortunate I even worked with Amy's mom for a while. Yeah. So it was very much in what regards she did a lot of our financial books, okay and stuff for a while. So
Mark D. Williams 10:14
she were like, Rick, you need to take care of my daughter. You're not putting away enough in your 401 K?
10:22
No, she's great, too.
10:23
He would have to ask her. Can I afford this mom and his mother in law? I thought that was great. Can we do this? Yeah,
10:29
but but it also helps to though, when you have such a good partner, I can always bounce things off. Sometimes you're thinking, Am I gonna say this? Right? How do I respond? How do I do this? What's our best approach? It's nice to have somebody that you implicitly trust that you can go to and say, Okay, let's just hash this
Mark D. Williams 10:48
out. And your goals are aligned, obviously, from a life standpoint and a value standpoint, your personal standpoint, but then also being able to check in each other in even in a house. Have you found and I'd like to hear Amy's point of view on this. But just a quick question on that. Have you found that sometimes I mean, obviously, sometimes in a situation or in a home, inevitably, at least a couple times during the build, emotions will run high, you'll have to have a sit down with a client and say, This is why and usually you can get through it when you're honest. Do you feel like having the both of you at those meetings? If that is the case of how you do do those one? Does one person spend more time with a client than another? Or do you guys usually handle the clients jointly? And if so, it seems like a tandem team. Like if I was mad, but there's both of you like, it seems like it would diffuse it. And mainly, I'm thinking, I'm just thinking of like, if someone had argued with my wife and I, like my wife is very sensitive, like they'd be like, oh, man, I can't I can't. Mark and Melissa's here, is there. Where does that play into the business aspect?
11:44
Oh, I'd say all the time in meetings. I mean, whenever there's two of us there. And it's like Rick had mentioned, it's such an emotional process to building homes. And so having that female side of things and being very intuitive into people, reading people what's going on? It's not black and white, you have to read the room. I mean, it's there is marriage counseling that happens. I was wish I had my degree in that because I would
Mark D. Williams 12:06
know your honor a degree, I would say in building you. ology major. Yes. Yeah, we had. I think you guys know Kate Regan from the sitting room. You know, she has a psychology major.
12:16
I can see that though. She's great with people useful. Very.
Mark D. Williams 12:20
Welcome to your honorary degree, I will give it to you after
12:23
it is for sure. I mean, it's, it's a lot. And I think having, you know, more of the factual, like, understanding from from Rick's point of view there, and then the emotional side of like, hey, you know, I know what you're feeling what you're going through from my side, and just even watching the dynamic between husband wife, you can sense right away, you know, who's gonna be making decisions, financially, interiors, architecturally. So you're, you're constantly reviewing the people the project, the process?
Mark D. Williams 12:54
Going back to the original question, do you feel how Yes, working with your husband? I mean, is that something, something that you envisioned? Like, at what point did you be like, Oh, this is really special, this is really unique, or, I guess, walk us through some of the pros and cons of that? Well,
13:09
it was actual another kind of line in the sand saying, Are you going to go back to console? So we had our first daughter, Ava, and I had to decide, am I going to go back to consulting to pay the bills, great job, you know, it's like, Oh, am I going to give that up? Or am I going to, you know, choose to be well, am I gonna choose to be a partner, a real partner with Rick and, and handle homes. And I remember sitting in a parking lot, and really, like, kind of agonizing what, what should I do? And I knew the answer, I knew I had to just give up consulting just that ease of the paycheck too. But I did. And that's, I guess, another time when our business just started to just really took off. Yeah, take off. So and those hard decision, but you have to leap you have to go out of your comfort zone. Really, I mean, you know, sometimes it doesn't pay off, but a lot of times it does. And I think again, if you have that desire and passion you you're a hard worker, the grit, the endurance, and you're good at what you do. I think, I mean, you can go really far.
Mark D. Williams 14:15
What were some of your early talents? I mean, Rick talked a little bit about his interest in architecture and some of that what are what do you enjoy about the building?
14:23
I love the design. I mean, that to me, I mean, even as a little kid, I would go to pray to homes with my parents and I would play these games were sitting in the backseat of the car and driving down the street and I would in my head be like yes, no, yes, yes. No to every house that I liked and I didn't like so I just loved architecture from I mean, being you know, seventh and I love design. I would buy magazines all the time, I would buy coffee table books, I would constantly immersing myself, I love to travel. I think that's a great aspect to really just dive into amazing design. So when we both know love to Travel and continue to be inspired by what's out there. So but you know, right now, it's a lot of business development that I do some design on select projects, but I love working with interior designers and architects, they it's great to just be a part of their creative genius. And I
Mark D. Williams 15:17
would suspect on the early side of things you did I mean, Rick was obviously drawing at that point. And then obviously, you guys would convert to plans, engineers and go through the technical details, I would assume. Is that right? Yep. And then I assumed in the early times, you were helping with selections in that design? How do you How have you found because at this point, you know, you're dealing with very high end architects that are specking, a lot of things very high end design groups. And yet we have our opinions, I find, I'm kind of curious to know your answer to how to apply this to my own life. The best part about the podcast is I can ask you questions that I'm dealing with, and and then you guys can give me the I'll pay you for it for you. Thank you for coming up for my therapy channel. My question, I guess is, how do you navigate your own desires and interests in design? With like, this beautiful design group? Is it more like subtle and because of your experience, you might nudge a little bit because, you know, we have a lot more power, being the owners of our companies that you could really steer the ship that strongly, you might hurt or bruise a relationship? How have you navigated those? You know, let's say an architecture for you reckon design for you?
16:19
I think it's a great question. You know, it, every project has. Every project has its challenges. Nobody can know everything. And so as a team, we feel like as a builder, we can be there to support in certain areas where cost may come into play, there might be some options there, something comes up, we kind of get stuck in a rut, and we've, you know, we kind of go around and we're designing something and the homeowners aren't really buying into it. That's a time where we feel like we can inject into say, How about these things. It's not our design, I don't need, I don't, I don't have a big deal for that. I just want to make sure that we actually build that house. So really, it's not, it's not so much that we want to do it or we want to own it or anything like that. It's just being a part of the team, making sure we get the best project. I know, we will get the best project when everybody's working at their best, right. And so for us, it's actually been kind of fairly easy. We think it's really good, by the way, fairly easy transaction. But we think it's really good for the builder to understand design, because there's so many things in this building process that come up that need to be tweaked or torqued. And really sometimes even the architects and designers like what do you guys think? You know, we don't wanna spend a bunch of time on this. What do you guys think you've seen this a lot in the past. And so it's easy for us to step in, we've done it so many times in the past, it's easy for us to step in and say, here's what you're gonna see, when you get done with it. If you can picture in your mind, here's what it's gonna look like, in that way. So it's a really valuable trait, actually. And I think it's one of the things that we feel like we offer that's unique for us, actually.
18:04
Yeah, there's like thou, I mean, 1000s and 1000s of decisions that the builder makes on behalf of the owner that they don't even know. And
Mark D. Williams 18:11
you also extend that to the architect as well. or less? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
18:15
And I think it's our job as the builder to know the client really well and elevate their style. So the more we know them, the better we can suggest things or offer an opinion, right and idea to collaborate with the team. And it's never to, you know, to take anything away from anyone else, it's just to present an opinion or a thought. And sometimes, you know, it's appropriate and sometimes, you know, it's you don't need to because you already have a great idea or design right there. So it's just the more we get to know our clients, the better the projects will be. And then, again, the team, we love to bring a team together right from the very beginning of the architect, interior designer, landscape architect, builder, anyone else lighting, design, kitchen, design, any all that whole team together, because everyone's again, that creative mindset together, everyone in the same room working together, bouncing ideas off of each other, make for the best projects. Always I think
Mark D. Williams 19:12
I'd like to take a minute to thank our sponsors, and then we'll be right back to the curious builder podcast. This episode is brought to you by Pella windows and doors. They've just been an amazing partner over my entire career. I've been building for 18 years and I've pretty much built every single home with Pella being installed in in my homes and whether you're doing a small remodel, whether you're doing commercial or high end architecture, they have a product and a service that can fit any one of your needs. And on a personal level. And and Peter over and management have just been incredible mentors to me, both as a person and as a business owner. It's been a very special relationship and their team, their general manager, their sales department and their service. I mean you call them they're there. They backup what they say and they're the only window company He that has a lifetime warranty on their windows. So when it's time to do a remodel or build a new home, Pella is the brand that we trust and we support, please reach out to them at Pella northland.com or on their Instagram at Pella Northam give them a follow, give them a like Be sure to follow what they're doing. And be sure to tell your Pella rep that you heard about him from the curious builder. This episode is brought to you by NRD. Landscaping, they are just a tremendous company. They are located off a one on one and highway seven and the western side of Minneapolis met Eric and his team about five, six years ago and have just been absolutely blown away at their design capabilities, their value, and they're just a trusted partner that we introduced to every client that we build our custom homes with. So if you have a small project a large project, if you're an architect looking to bring in a landscaper, I highly recommend Eric Worre, enter the landscaping, you can check him out on his Instagram handle and rd landscape or online at ener D landscape.com. All of our episodes and video are available at curious builder podcast.com. And now back to our guest
Mark D. Williams 21:07
let's talk a little bit about that builder team. I think a lot of people listening there out there might already own their business. But a lot of people that have come up to me about the podcasts are aspiring entrepreneurs, and they want to build a business. And I think this would be really interesting opportunity to talk a little bit about team structure. You know, early on it was the two of you and your mother in law, and maybe a few others. Walk us through, you know, a little bit of the the genesis of this maturation process of you guys getting bigger, it's been 23 years, you know, and I understand there's probably different milestones, right? Like where you went all in, and like you had a big Quantum Leap, I'm guessing there was another quantum leap when you you know, maybe hit either $1 amount or a number of people. And then you cross that threshold. And then I'm guessing you had another one architecture, right? Like once you started giving up the reins of drawing stuff you're on I'm guessing you catapulted to another strata because you're no longer limited by a by your time in any sort of perceived, you know, limitations on whatever design style aesthetic, whether you had it or not, people would presume like hey, you built this. I mean, that's a thing that builders often struggle with is like, hey, if all you build is modern homes, they think that's all you can build. And so you get as a builder, you get real excited to do something different. And that's inverse in Minnesota, right? Everything is cottage and traditional. And then as soon as you get a modern one, like Yes, see, we can build them out. They don't just exist in Scottsdale, Arizona in Miami, they exist here. Now whether you should build a flat roof in Minnesota is another question that will not be addressed in this pocket. So that's a pretty broad question. But I guess, take it where you want to go with it.
22:31
It's been kind of a slow, it's been a slow growth. There's been probably steps, I would say more than anything. When we started getting we have a layout where we have two project managers per project and a site supervisor. And that was probably our biggest jump. We also had a lot of work coming in. But that was probably our two
Mark D. Williams 22:51
project managers on a single home. Yep. Interesting. What's the thought there? Plus the site manager plus the site manager? Yep. What's the thought there? Was it sorry? Just for the audience? I mean, it'd be pretty normal to have a single project manager. Yep. And a site manager, or in that project manager might oversee two or three. Right? So I'd love to hear this is very interesting. Yeah,
23:10
our senior project managers have the most experience and they basically run everything on that job. So they know they even come in early on before we even start estimating. And then for sure, they go through the whole estimating process, but they they really run the job, they oversee all the costs, all the scheduling, all the selections, everybody else is there not assistance, but for lack of a better term, they're assisting with that this project their support. Yep. And so our other project manager, you know, they kind of help with we call them the communication glue, because they're the ones that are actually they take MIDI notes, they get everything set up for us. And really, they are key. Well, especially during this whole pandemic, where you couldn't get anything and sourcing things are a problem to have somebody that was able to be in the office and source things was huge. Yeah.
23:59
They they're able to run around and kind of bring everything together. When I mean, there's so many phone calls and emails and I mean things that you're just managing and so to have a person really dedicated to making sure like the administrative things are being handled and the product and materials are being delivered and organized and scheduled and just having another person to support the senior PM. And, and then kind of talking with the site. So it kind of also, again, that liaison between the site and the office. But that
Mark D. Williams 24:30
person that role would probably be in the office, but 80 90% or 100% not 100%
24:34
Because they do go to job sites and visit 80 Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 24:38
yeah. Yeah. So it sounds okay, that actually doesn't matter because we just we call them a project coordinator. So maybe it's just semantics. So okay, I gotcha. Yeah,
24:46
they're they're really mean they know a lot and they have a lot of years experience and they're really supporting in all aspects, I would say and even more so than, than not but they actually are taught working with clients, they have to be sophisticated enough to communicate well and understand what's going on. And so are
Mark D. Williams 25:05
they handling a lot of the change order requests and a lot of information documents and seeking it out from subcontractors? Or is the project manager usually the one presenting that either through, let's say, a builder trend portal, which I know you use or in person who would normally deliver that sort of information? Yeah, the
25:19
team effort? Yeah, it kind of depends. Sometimes some stuff, I would say would be driven by the senior project manager, other times the other project manager. So it really depends on the specific item that we're working on. Well, and
25:31
it's nice to that. They're, they're a team. So they work on all projects together, they get to know each other. They No, yeah, so they really the dynamics
Mark D. Williams 25:38
of this, how big is your maybe I should step back? How big is the total team? How many people? Are we talking about that handle homes now?
25:43
17? Oh, my
Mark D. Williams 25:44
God, that's a lot. Yeah. So and that, that now, so you get this little cord? nucleolus? So that site manager, project manager and other project manager would all be that's like a unit?
25:55
Well, the two are the unit and then the site soups, kind of rotate around between those teams?
Mark D. Williams 26:00
And will that project manager and senior senior project manager want to say Project Coordinator? They'll always be on just one job? Is it multiple jobs paying on the size? Like I get it, right? If you're building a 20,000 square foot house, and while maybe almost a two, but if you're doing like a 5000 square foot house? Do you sometimes then allocate those to two different jobs? They have multiple jobs. So then you're just okay. Yeah.
26:23
They're very good. Our senior project managers are phenomenal. So they can handle the work. And they're there. Yeah, I see. I think there's some of the best guys in town.
Mark D. Williams 26:32
Yeah. I mean, they have very, we're very, some incredible homes. I mean, we know this, I mean, we we tend to be front men, as the owners of our companies, but the end of the day, nothing happens without our people.
26:43
Well, that's something that we've learned along the way to have just, when you find your all star team, you do everything you can to keep them and so really, but you have to be also desirable, and, and good enough to draw from that talent. So it's this catch 22 of Okay, one, all those people, but you can't just jump in and be like, Oh, I deserve them, like you do have to prove who you are, do you have good business standards and guidelines and core values. And so it takes time,
27:10
you know, I always tell everybody, we're building a prototype in an uncontrolled environment with all kinds of people. So it's really important to be able to deal with people well, even not just our own team, but even all of our trades and our vendors that we work with. I think that's how we built a lot of our business and just really diving deep with our trades and our our subs and our vendors and saying, hey, you know, a lot of mill like to say no, and I say, Okay, well explain to me why you're telling me no, or why I can't do that, or why it would cost this to do that. Number one, it was good for me to learn. But to you really find out really what's at the heart of that issue, or the problem or the cost. And if there's a way to work around it. That's what we
Mark D. Williams 27:55
do. You sound like a curious builder.
27:58
I am. Yeah, that's how you grow? Yeah. We don't know everything. We don't know everything. i When you think that you do
Mark D. Williams 28:08
the trouble. Yeah. And your subs are the first to tell you. And the freak is it's funny. You mean, you hear obviously, we're kind of the parents in this situation, right? You hear subs talk about this job. And you're like, you know, I love all my children, you got to play together. And I mean, we get called into that stuff a lot. And, you know, just I mean, I think for myself, we're not as big a company, obviously. But I feel like for a long time, because a lot of the companies we work with are multi generational families, as are we, I feel like I've been able to build more homes or more capacity than I probably of staff to do, because I've used some of the same people for almost two decades now. And so it's while they're not technically a project manager by, you know, pay in scope, because they're on so many of our jobs, or all of them, there's a lot, they want it as bad as you do. And because they know that that loyalty is a two way street, they're also looking out for your end product. I mean, I can't tell you how invaluable it is to have your trade partners that you respect them, and vice versa. And you know, we can never tell them how much we care about them enough. Like, like family, frankly, right? I mean, we never tell our family, you know, how much we care about them. And it's true. And it's it's really validating to see them grow and appreciate. And it's even kind of cool to see them evolve their careers, because all of our careers are evolving. And you know, depending on what your career path and choice is knowing that I think one of the biggest things that we have to sometimes wear a weighted vest on is that our decisions have a ripple effect on a lot of other families. And I think being thoughtful and conscientious about that. I think that's a feeling that is felt among the people that we work with, because you do hear about people and while price is important, I am more concerned personally with value. And I know that you guys feel the same way to assertions about that. Oh, absolutely.
29:46
Yeah. No, it's It's great to have such great trade partners that you can rely on. And, you know, like you said, we've seen them grow through the years from when we started some of those same trade partners are, we're still working hand in hand in hand with them and bouncing ideas off. And it is it's a mean that we value them. They are artisans, they really are the ones creating these beautiful masterpieces that people love to view and see. And then it's ultimately somebody's home. So it's, it's very rewarding to see something go from paper to, you know, actual reality. And it
30:21
all starts with relationships. Yeah, that's key. So if somebody's getting into the business, build relationships, it's key.
Mark D. Williams 30:28
So let's talk a little bit about that. I mean, if you were to go back in time, and give yourself some advice, other than build relationships, what is that? What is that exit? Well, first, what what advice would you give yourself if you were to start over again? And then let's talk a little bit more about how you build relationships throughout your career. But even now,
30:44
good question. I'm a firm believer in things happen for a reason. And so what I changed anything No. Although I give myself advice, I'd want to change things. But I've learned from so many things that you do wrong, or not well, that it's, it's made us who we are, it's given us or the process or the process. Yep. But yeah, building relationships is key, I would say that's for sure. I was not knowing it's been a double edged sword for me not knowing. And making relationships with architects to me, probably held us back a little bit. Because I did my own design build. It also is very helpful for us to help solve problems and work through things. And it's been very good to us to I mean, we've we've designed some wonderful homes and built a minute, it's been incredible. So but I would say those types of relationships, interior designers, would be another one. All of our trade partners are key, if you're going to get into it really dive in and asking a lot of questions being being curious. Well,
31:49
I would also add to that, just know your finances. I mean, this is, you know, we're all this is not a hobby for any of us, but it is something that we're passionate about. And so just, you know, knowing your numbers, is important and, and, you know, obviously being transparent and fair, and all of that. But also, you know, you got to really understand your overhead, you got to understand, you know, those ratios, and the breakevens and product, and there's just a lot of things that I I wish I knew that back then that I had learned along the way. And it's again, part of the process.
Mark D. Williams 32:24
So I've heard before, a older builder once told me that you could be good at building or good at business, and you'll make it if you're good at business in a bad builder, or you won't make it if you're a good builder and bad at business. And hopefully you're good at both. I thought that was really interesting advice.
32:40
Very true. I mean, you you really do, you've got to you've got to be a good business owner leader. And there's a lot to it. I mean, it's relationships, it's the finances, it's the product, it's your process, you know, at the end of the day, you know, what do you have, you've got your processes that you've created and, and your people and hopefully those produce that amazing product. So it's there's a lot you learn along the way and, and surround yourself with great business owners, great people, people who inspire you people who are smart, people who are, you know, creative, there's so many, whatever aspect it is that you're drawn to in them. But
Mark D. Williams 33:17
probably that thing if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. Yeah, exactly. Turns out, I'm the kindergarten room. What told me a little bit about relationship building specifically architects that you and I have talked a little bit about this as well. I mean, I think people often think of relationships in May, it could be all of these things, but more specifically, like, you know, is it something that you plan? Or is it something more organic? And then when I where I'm going with this is like, you know, for a long time, what's called late 90s, early 2000. Golf was the number one heard about in corporate America at the time. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with golf, but it seems like it's too slow for a lot of people but some people still like it. I mean, is it is it lunches is is coffees? Is it checking in, like, how do because some of these relationships take years, it's not like you can just call up and say, hey, I want to do a $20 million home, let's say with, you know, a very reputable architect. What does that relationship look like and how, you know, there's got to be a lot of other people that are also vying on their time as well. Other than of course, when you do get one, make sure you're not going out of the park, I assume success and doing it well is your number one key to doing it again, but walk us through these, you mentioned how important relationships are to you, Rick
34:22
is all the above. It's it's planning and being intentional. And then when you do get that opportunity, it's making sure you follow through. You're fully invested in it. You see from their perspective, when you're designing a house, it's so difficult to know everything. It's almost impossible for somebody to know every single little thing that's gonna go into it. And so there's going to be a problem that's going to come up or there's going to be an issue is going to come up. It's how you work with them and how you solve that. That really they understand that you're working with them and for them and not against them. And that goes a long way for anybody or trades, architects, designers, anything. Same thing with interior designers. as well, too, so there's some there's their creative people, they're trying to do their best, there's a lot of things going on products are changing. You know, in the last couple of years, we've had everything change on us, you don't know, if you're gonna get it one day you can order it and may or may not show up. And so being able to pivot, being able to work through those challenges, that's all key. But, but introducing yourself, there's a lot of ways to do it. You know, sometimes it's just taking again, a step of faith and saying, Hey, you are going to design this $3 million house with us, we want to choose you. And working through that. And being able to mean we're hired, to build homes to be able to work with people to get them to provide their product. So you have to really be good at that relationship. To get the best out of them. I always say you're, you're hiring me to get the best out of these all these people. Right? For the best price. So being good at that is so many things. But that's if you're going to focus on one thing. That's key, I think, yeah,
Mark D. Williams 36:01
I think that's good advice. Oh, what else? That was? That was really good. Mic drop. I know, right? Unfortunately, this mic is on I can't drop it, you have to chuck it against the wall. So please don't
36:14
know. But um, I mean, it's the million dollar question of like, what do you do? Where do you put your, you know, your, your resources, your focus? You know, it's, you know, it is it is definitely, you know, networking and working with people, it's, it's, first off, though, you have to have a, you have to know what you're doing and really do it well, like and invent yourself, sometimes, you know, you, you you think you're doing well, but really make sure you're you're playing in the right field that you're with the right people. So if you know, if you are, then I would say persistence, don't ever give up. Sometimes being in front in front of the right person at the right time. It's just all it is. And so if that means continually doing that, just being in front of someone, we I mean, I have a whole marketing calendar of just things to remind me every month to do just client touches, trade touches, employees, like all these things that make us who we are and make us better. So
Mark D. Williams 37:09
out of curiosity, it actually leads into my next question about time blocking. So I'm always interested in any business owner can relate to time blocking, or at least lack thereof or doing it more and, you know, is that like a calendar like, Hey, do these eight things? Or do you have them scheduled on specific days, I'm always really interested how people manage their, their calendars.
37:25
It's no, I have it per month. And they're, they're just general things that I have like for that month. And so some in the beginning, I know I need to do it right away. There'll be right in the beginning and kind of for the first week, second week, third week and fourth week. And so I break them out that way. But it's more of a monthly and then I like a sick cyclical cycle. So the next year, it's the same calendar, and I keep adding things to them or taking things off. But it's a way for me just to again, like that checklist. Like what you know, when we would go on vacation that packing lists, or sunglasses, it's right, how did I forget that
Mark D. Williams 37:57
you do? And I know like in sales like following up with people, I feel like builders are behind in this not that you can't and but like you know, CRM, right? I mean, how do you manage all your leads and contacts? You use a CRM system to do that?
38:08
We do? And actually, I was looking at a new one called hotspot that I'm very,
Mark D. Williams 38:12
yeah, I use that. But I don't use it nearly to what it's
38:16
why No, that's silver bust? And yeah, you can geek out on that. But I'm looking at that. But yeah, we I mean, we do have a CRM program, I like it. But I also we have an assistant that I hired who does a lot with me and marketing and just the office who is invaluable. And so having someone who, you know, really thinks like you and can help you, like, basically duplicate your work and have having your hands be in multiple places.
Mark D. Williams 38:42
So just following up on that, and I want to talk a little bit about time blocking, but how you had mentioned before, about really knowing your numbers, and now you just mentioned this Assistant, how do you know for those listening, and even for myself, when is the right time to hire? Because that person allows you to have more capacity? Do you hire when you have the money coming in? Like you know, you can can sustain that. But also knowing that you could maybe not hire that person and then go get it? How have you guys navigated that? It's a tricky question.
39:09
It's a very tricky question. You know, unfortunately, in business, we still do a lot of things on a gut feel. Yeah, right. We have we know, there's a certain amount of leads that are there we know about the quality that they're going to be. We understand what we have.
Mark D. Williams 39:26
Are you writing them? What do you mean by you know about the quality? That's the gut like, hey, it is I think the Johnsons are pretty close. You know, you're holding off on interest rates, but I think in the next six months, that kind of stuff, right?
39:35
Yep. Yep. We don't have a very specific system. We're working on that right now. Just kidding. No, we don't have a very specific system, but it's understanding that at certain points to when we know we have the work, we go out that's a little bit more challenging because then you have to get the work done. But it's it's a little bit of both. Yeah.
39:55
And we do have like a cue that we put in all of our work. I mean, we have we have done Only metrics and spreadsheets that really lay out. I mean, all of our sites, oops, all of their work are our senior PMS, all of their work. So we can see for the next however many years, you know, your backlog
40:10
flow, but we actually even know where we're going to produce every month. Yeah, so we forecast that out. But as far as hiring assistants, those are a little more challenging. And we've probably been always leaning towards getting the work first, and then hiring to keep that's I
Mark D. Williams 40:27
mean, that's how I've done it. Right. I mean, it's, you know, well, I think that a lot of ideas you mentioned, you may jump before the pool is filled. But when it comes to hiring people, mainly because we're also conscientious, like we mentioned before of hiring somebody, when the last thing I want to do is hire someone. Exactly. That's gonna go we actually had to do that in the last year, we hired someone weird. We probably were a year late hiring somebody. And then when I heard them, the things were starting to slow down. And then you know, we had that wasn't the right fit, and it's time for them to go. And like, anyways, that's not actually that was my first first time I've ever had to let go and 18 years, I've never had to let somebody go before like that. And it's not enjoyable,
41:00
never enjoyable ever. Anytime I know any of those situations are never Yeah, so are you do you want to you and you're like you said, there's hundreds of families that you're really supporting, even with trade partners. And so, I mean, you it's a lot of stress, it's at points in our business. I mean, it's, you're holding a lot. And you're, you're trying to make a decision. It's nice, we have each other to bounce ideas off of which I would say, you know, just looking at, you know, part of different builder groups, but seeing, you know, people trying to manage this by themselves versus a partner, it is so nice to just have someone who dress and we even you know, with our senior PMS, we have a leadership team that is great, because we can go to those guys and say, Hey, what do you think
Mark D. Williams 41:37
within your team? Yeah, I've heard that as the team gets bigger. I guess we'll go back in a minute. But walk me through a little bit of time blocking since I asked the question, do you guys time block? I mean, your day does it tend to be? How do you guys manage? manage that? And on top of that, let's say just because I'm going back to the husband, wife thing, I'm interested. So an email is addressed to Amy and Rick, who answers it the first person like quickdraw? Or like, how do you guys navigate who answers?
42:01
Good question? Mostly Amy.
42:05
Just my administrative side,
42:07
I don't probably time black as well. I have again, a gut feel on what's hot that day, what needs to be addressed and talked about? And so I'm, I'm more of a I get up, I understand what I need to do that day, I do leave gaps. I've tried to leave gaps in my day where I can attend to things that come up in questions that need to be answered. And, yeah, just things that we have to do. So I'm not as good at as you probably are.
42:38
I mean, I do i you schedule some time throughout the day where I have my like, I'm not checking email, I'm just gonna focus on these projects. I'm not even looking, because I won't get anything done if I do. And, you know, I do and I try every week to really focus on certain parts of the financials and making sure I'm, I'm knowing what's going on and
Mark D. Williams 42:57
is an example if I may, like so like Tuesdays at 10 o'clock, we'll have a one hour financials, that's a reoccurring thing. I mean, something like that. Yeah.
43:05
Now we'll meet, we try and meet, you know, once a week for sure, you know, Monday afternoon just to check in and say, Hey, what's going on for the week, Wednesday mornings, we do have, you know, our our senior leadership team meeting in the morning, you know, we I have reminders on my calendar for things that I need to look at whether it happens at that time, or maybe two hours later. But I think that we're always being kind of pushed to be on on some sort of timeline to keep keep things going and get things done.
Mark D. Williams 43:32
You hear about this, Lawson It seems like maybe Rick has his heart figured out than I do. Because you hear about this. Are you working in this business? Are you working on the business? Do you feel like me looking on cue? It seems like you're working on the business, which is, I think a good place for leadership to be is a is that statement true? And if so, if you could put a percentage to that. And then secondly, how long have you were in your career did were you able to make that switch to be like, Man, I need to get out of the weeds as you often hear in business and like work on the business and the the high level stuff? Because that's really where you bring a lot of value? Yep.
44:05
It's a great question. I would say, it's, it changes in here's, here's why there's things that we realized that we could be doing much better. And then we dive in. And you can say you want to do whatever, but you really need to then get in the weeds and get it done. And sometimes, we're in the weeds, and we're getting it done. And that's just, that's just what needs to happen. You know, we did a tour house where we really had to kind of step it up, we added a lot of stuff, but at the end and we had a short amount of time to get it done. So I lived at the site. That's just what had to happen that time. But then you back out and say this is what we need to do for the business. Here's the direction we want to go. It's a little bit of both and you kind of have to read it and that's part of what I think as a business owner you got to be good at trying to recognize those times where this is a time where I dig in I just because I'm the owner and I'm supposed to be thinking Big and doing big things, there's, there's times where I gotta go sweep floors. And I need to just get in and get it done. And it's just gonna get done. And it's gonna get done kind of at all costs. And so it's been able to read that and understand that that I think, really helps plus, I think it's a good example, for our team, for everybody in our team and how important they are plus our trades, if they see you, as the owner out there doing something they're like, if he's going to do it, I better do it. Right. So I think it's just being a good example. And doing all that, and, and being able to do both, but recognize when you're more valuable, your best use of your time is to focus on big picture things and kind of guide and direct and see what's important we get, we have a business coach that we work with. And he always says to us, he's like, you know, there's going to be all kinds of shiny things that come into your life. And it's like, not all of them are good. Yeah. And so we have to take those two and say, you know, as a business, do we want to chase that or not? Is that something that we should be good at or not? And why? And so, once you have all your stuff set up, you have your metrics that you can you can go to, I mean, we do cashflow all those things now, it really, it releases you from the stress of do I have this in order? Can I pay that bill? Is that ready to go? Do we get this invoice out all those little minor things that that need to be done, but they're stressful, they can add stress, if they're not getting done. And once those get in line, it then allows you to step back, make good decisions on big things, go dive deep, get into the weeds, do all those things. And that's why I don't I'm not so time blocked necessarily. Because I know I still we're still growing. We're not perfect. I'm still working in the business as much as I'm working on the business. And I'm still okay with that. Because we're not where I ultimately want to be. So when will that change? I'm not sure yet, but I think you're always becoming you'll you're always becoming Yeah,
46:57
you're never really there. And if you are then there's an issue.
Mark D. Williams 47:01
Date. I mean, that was evolving, right? You're ever ever changing, ever evolving. Right?
47:05
If you want to be the West, it takes a lot of effort. And so it's it's it's a challenge and and it's something that you're striving to get better at.
Mark D. Williams 47:15
Again, you're listening to the curious builder podcast. This episode is brought to you by adaptive. Adaptive is a technology company that basically processes all your invoicing. It communicates with QuickBooks, it communicates with buildertrend. It basically takes everything that you have puts it into their system cost codes it you vet it, you send it around the office, you can avoid those days of having 18 People stamp their approval on a piece of paper before a subcontractor gets paid. Go give them a look. Give them a like give them a follow adaptive dot built. This episode is brought to you by middlemen. resawn timbers, find them at Mr. timbers.com, Sarah Monroeville and her team over in Hugo, Minnesota do an amazing job getting you the barnwood that you need for your projects, whether you're an architect, a designer, a builder, whether you're doing residential or commercial, I highly recommend Sara and her team. I've worked with her for over a decade, their commitment to excellence on time delivery, and just their American made can do attitude is really inspiring. They have a small team of 20 employees, and whether they're doing stuff in New York for Ralph Lauren, or whether they're doing your local bar in Wisconsin, Sara and her team are just amazing people, the only thing better is their product. So if you're looking for barnwood, please visit him at Mr. timbers.com. All of our episodes and video are available at curious builder podcast.com. And now back to our guest.
Mark D. Williams 48:45
So you said that you want to be the best. So currently we are we are talking with a reigning Builder of the Year, two times of the year that are seen out about that, by the way, I like that, which is a great honor. And so tell us a little bit about you know, Amy and I are a few housing committees together, one being awards. And this is not for those listening, not a self award. This is an actual award. We didn't create it ourselves without Amy and I have threatened management and if they don't come up with an award for the Ursa tour, Amy are gonna I've actually contacted our company to come up with something particularly large and ridiculous. I haven't run it by you. Yeah,
49:17
I'm the chair this year. So I will make sure that we get this done
Mark D. Williams 49:22
for those listening. You know, the Parade of Homes is celebrating their 75th year coming up, which is an incredibly you talked about as a little girl, I remember as a little kid going to all these great homes. It's really an incredible thing that Minnesota Housing First has done. You know, for the state of Minnesota, it was the first in the country. And the artisan home tour is the jewel of the parade, meaning it's the highest. It's the it's the Super Bowl of homes in Minnesota. And now there's a second tour coming up in October, which is nice for up to a year but for a long time. They have not had awards to recognize that they've really struggled with this and I know this is something near and dear to you. You and I both have been trying to get something for this sort of recognition. So
49:58
there's just so many details that you'd want to highlight. We haven't for a parade of homes. And so why wouldn't you have them for, you know, this elevated tour that just has, you know, more details because you can because of the price point and things. So, I would love to have something like that. And hopefully we can figure it out together
50:14
next year, to say we're so fortunate to have an association like that, that's really what got me to I ran around and understood every builder everywhere they built, what their houses look like, what they were doing, what products they were using, I would sit and research and research and research all over the country, you would you would you didn't even offer the country. But but locally, it's been so great to have that. And then the artisan tour. Again, it's always a talking with another builder that we had to just happen to see him in the in a restaurant, and they're always pushing, they're always getting better. And it makes us get better. And I am so appreciative of all the guys, all the trades that have gone before us laid the foundation for us that have done such a good job and just constantly pushed us. I mean, there's times where I'm just like, they don't stop, that means I can't stop. So they're always getting better. There's always something you can get better at. Even if you're not technological. You don't do podcasts, you're like, I should be doing that as well, too. So there's always something I'm doing.
Mark D. Williams 51:20
You can cross that off your bucket list. You can time block that and you can mark it complete.
51:25
So but but that's key to always be push always be challenged always to get better. And I think that's really important. Yeah, really important. I
Mark D. Williams 51:35
would say hard. Amen to that. Because that is cool. I've never thought about it in those terms before. But you're right. Like, I think sometimes people you know, you want to be and I'll let you speak genre as well. So when you say you want to be the best, it's like you, you are inspired by your peers. And yes, in some ways they are competition. But it's like you can have a very open dialogue. I think of a lot I used to coach cross country running for 10 years. And one thing that was unique about cross country running on like a basketball team or football team, there's a winner and there's a loser. And yes, there's a winner of the race, I get it. Like the guy who wins the marathon, you know, getting close to two hours. That's ridiculous. But the point is, is like if you're running 26.2 miles, everyone is clapping for you. Because it's hard. And it's an accomplishment to do it. And I think in as we're also you know, very much a part of homeownership and just celebrating homes, like, I don't care if you're building a $10,000, you know adu or something that can can house someone or a $20 million house. I'm actually I'm for it. And you mentioned earlier about following your passion. Like I think it's so amazing what Minnesota Housing First is doing, and really the builders around it, you know, and we'll talk a little bit we'll run out of time. But you know, basically, I know you guys have some outreach stuff outside the country, even like, how can we extend, you know, these privileges, we'd like them to be rights that you have a house, a roof over your head, but that's not always the case. And yes, we work in a world that is way beyond what most people can afford. I often tell my clients, you know, if they're upset about something, like don't feel bad, I can't afford my work, either. They seem to laugh. And so hopefully it keeps coming across as tongue in cheek, but it's true. I mean, you know, sometimes it's like, I go home, and I love my house. And there's nothing wrong with it. But like, you know, sometimes you get working on these beautiful homes, and it's like, you're there for your expertise. But, you know, it's sometimes it is it's unattainable, but understanding like it's a real privilege to be a part of that. And to also you have just because you can't sometimes afford that yourself doesn't mean you can't lend expertise or do it. Right. Yeah. And
53:28
Housing First Minnesota is, I mean, really a big backer behind that and to support us, I mean, they, they really go to bat for all types of housing. I mean, whether it's, you know, just the even, you know, apartments or, and, I mean, of course, homeownership is what we all want to obtain. But I mean, they, they do such a good job. And I mean, I would even say as someone looking to even get into building, like be a part of your organization, like get involved. You know, call the mean, it's so easy to and it's it's worth it. They do a good job of just connecting you connect you to other trades, education or university. So they've got a lot that can make you better to from, you know, any aspect of the building. Industry. So that's great resources, great resources, great people, and they're just getting better and better.
Mark D. Williams 54:17
I know they're coming up. I talked to James briefly at the building remodeler show they're going to they're starting to do some accreditation, but basically kids in high school, and I know I've told them I'm in I don't know, any details caught me and I want to be a part of that. No.
54:29
And that's really I think what we're up against in the future is just Will we have enough trade partners to perform the work?
Mark D. Williams 54:35
That was one of my questions is where do you see the industry going forward here. And I guess I just preface this by I heard that, if the average age is like 35 or more, you're in a declining industry. And I'd heard that plumbers in Minnesota like 55 Right. And like it's an average age and like, I can't think of a single industry where that average age is in decline. Yeah,
54:59
no, it It's actually in a really it's a crisis, I would say for our industry because we, I guess, I mean, college is great, but it's college is not for everyone. So to have another option for people to, to look at and make a great living out of it a great career, and it's especially people you want to work with your hands have everyday be different. I mean, it's fun,
Mark D. Williams 55:20
I think H factor electrician, I think if I, you know, encourage other, you know, guys out framing and they're like, Well, maybe the in framing school too, but like, you know, like, Man look into, you know, we call them tenors? You know? Yeah, look into it. I mean, I think H fac is going to be a massive Yes. Place technology wise, there's so much to be held there. Absolutely.
55:37
Absolutely.
55:38
I know, it's kind of another good business endeavor. like it'd be a lesson on a lot of different trade.
Mark D. Williams 55:43
Two questions as we sort of wrap up. One is we mentioned the builder 20. And this has only recently come on my radar. And how many years have you guys been in a builder 20. Now, there's three. And for those listening, maybe just describe what a builder 20 is.
55:58
Builder. 20 is a group of builders across the country. So you're you don't have anyone in your local areas. And it's you're building the same type of product. So it would be you know, we're at the high end is we have a bunch of high end builders across the country. And so we get together twice a year and we share everything about our business, all our finances, we have to provide a board report where we're sharing I mean, everything from our employees to our bonuses to our
56:28
what we might your marketing, everything
Mark D. Williams 56:31
in your mic is on so we can hear you guys talking. That's alright. You had the DoorDash dinging earlier, but I didn't say anything. But now that Chris is yakking it up back there. Now, they'll just cut that out later. So yeah, certainly with the builder 21. I guess going back to the builder 20 Have you how have you found it to help you basically check in with where you're at and where you're gonna go? No, that's
57:00
probably been our single biggest
57:02
game changer, game changer. I mean, if you could go back and jump right into one right from the beginning, do it. But it's hard. I mean, they actually that you as much as you vet them that they vet you more. So you kind of have to be at a certain level. But oh, my goodness, it is to be able to ask these questions. And you're sharing information that with that, you might it might have taken you a year to get figure this all out and put it all together. And you're you're sharing this with them, but they're sharing the same stuff with you that has taken them a year or, or longer to create and to the process and to vet it and to make it right and, you know, just even with, again, there are builder 20 group is really big into finances. So they really want to make sure you're you're you're going to be in this for the long haul and
57:43
help the company. There's been multiple transitions with companies where they're selling their companies and transitioning into the new ones, and the new guys are in the group now with the old guys.
Mark D. Williams 57:55
Oh, that'd be really cool. Yeah, fascinating point of view, how cool is it for that new person to have access to all that knowledge, right, and that transition, right,
58:02
and it's just good to you, we talk, there's all kinds of issues get brought up, you get to hear their perspective, their ideas, how they solve things, how they go through things, it's just been, it's literally like the best of the best coach. Yeah, the best of the best in the best coach you could have, because you have 20, some coaches in the room,
Mark D. Williams 58:19
and you're all sharing the life experience, I found I'm not I'm signed up for a builder 20. But I'm not in one, but I got a sneak peek at what it looks like. And I was like, oh, man, it feels very cathartic as well, because it's like, you end up developing these relationships, you're dealing with the issue. And while you know, there's friendships, obviously, we have in Minnesota that we can do some of that as well, with certain personalities, you feel more open, but ultimately, you can call them at any point in time and not feel like you're you're intruding on me. Like Hey, Bob, I got a question for you. And vice versa, they're gonna call you back. It's like a band of brothers.
58:48
It's just got a call today from one of our, our builder 20 partners in Naples. And he was looking to possibly go to builder training QuickBooks and that that transition, I'm like, Oh, I've done that. Yeah, I'll plug month end. Yeah, you know, they, they're a great, great option for you. And so it was just good to talk through that and to have that have the knowledge that you can tap into at a moment's notice and receive it? Yeah.
Mark D. Williams 59:11
In closing here, we'll just do a few rapid fires. Favorite quote.
59:17
Oh, favorite quote, I gotta think about
59:20
that. I don't know when it comes to mind.
59:23
That's a good question, though. I love I love quotes like that. Oh, I have one. Okay. Okay. The moment you compare, you lose a love that because someone is always smarter than you prettier than you. has more money, whatever. So don't compare the moment you compare, you lose.
Mark D. Williams 59:39
That's why Rick, stop comparing.
59:43
That's why I didn't want to loser. That's why you
Mark D. Williams 59:44
married you. can't compare. Amazing. Favorite book. Do you guys have a favorite book for just getting traction
59:53
or going to be getting traction?
59:55
Possibly. I've read it. That's a great book. I mean, I love I love books. I have a boy, I love anything that's this is what I'm reading one right now, mother and son highly recommended if you have any a son or just even for men, but it's just how a woman should treat their, their sons with respect and how that is so important to them and growing up and not necessarily mean it's a love to, but it's really that respect and honor, and how we're proud of them and those words and how to speak to them. So great book,
Mark D. Williams 1:00:27
I like that. I just started traction, actually, I was listening to I listened to a lot of my books on audible, I'm constantly questioned books while I'm running or doing whatever. And it got to be so many action items. I'm like, I can't listen to this on a podcast. I had to buy the book. I'm gonna have to make notes on this thing, because it's intense. And
1:00:43
and I would even take like we are looking into an integrator actually have a meeting on Friday with one to come to our office.
Mark D. Williams 1:00:50
Basically, they take the traction protocol, right? Yeah, yeah.
1:00:53
And so I think, I mean, again, all these little steps, just but it comes at a time and you're in your business when you're ready for that? And would we? Were we ready for that? You know, five years ago? No, we weren't. But I think now we are and having a good team to walk us through that but
Mark D. Williams 1:01:07
sees the rapid fire because I forgot one question that now it's coming back that I really want to ask, where do you see your what do you see yourself going? You mentioned you want to be the best? What is the best for handle home? Like what do you see the future, you know, of your company?
1:01:21
Doing what we're doing? I when I say that I want the ability to be doing the most cool, fun, unique projects that we can do with the same attributes of the clients that we work with, right. So that to be the best is hard to define. But it's something that we will never stop striving for. An even, maybe not even here in just Minnesota to we go even further.
Mark D. Williams 1:01:55
Have you guys explored that at all? I know, that's been kind of a hot topic with traveling and consulting. And I've even thought about it like, you know, the podcast has kind of led me to believe well, like, obviously, you can talk to people anywhere. I prefer all of our interviews to be in person. But then I was thinking about in building. I know there are other builders, just like architects, it's pretty common. I know, in Minnesota, we have some incredible architects, and a lot of their work is out of the state. And builder that I've heard of I don't know him personally, I guess is now consulting. So it's like an architect and builder that. And I'm curious, because I've always said, Well, I'm limited by my team. Right? Right. But ultimately, can you take that experience and that team building idea without having like, staff setup and like, you know, to me, it's always pick these cool places like, Okay, I want to be in Jackson Hole because I love to ski or I want to be in you know, you know, Hawaii or whatever you are. And there's a great need. The question is how can we use our expertise and our team building ability to do that? If you
1:02:45
we would love that we would love to look into it travel right now we have kids, so we can probably hopefully
Mark D. Williams 1:02:49
always have kids at home. Is there a plan that your
1:02:54
vote? So you're sure? Yeah, actually, they need to go off on their own at some point. But no, we just we were we have consulted
1:03:00
with projects out of Yeah. And you mean to Florida to Colorado and see
1:03:07
our goal is to do maybe more of that, but still be I mean, still be very focused on Masada. So we don't ever want to let that go. It's hard
1:03:14
when it's a tangible object that you're building, like, and it takes people and so to create these teams of all these subs that you've taken, it's taken you a while to get the best of the best and figure that out. So but maybe there's a different approach to it of, you know, what does that look like as we continue to do this? And I mean, really, this wasn't our grandfathers or fathers company. So I mean, we we are in it for the long haul and we love it. I think that's so I would say this, will we ever be done? Right? The question like when
Mark D. Williams 1:03:44
I know the kids expressed an interest because you have teenage daughters, right?
1:03:48
daughter and a son Yep. 18 and 16. So I mean, yes, you know, yeah, I mean, they're definitely interested. I mean, super creative so I could see them taking that the passion side of it and smart and so but you know what, if we don't push it because we want them to really know it?
1:04:05
You gotta you gotta really want it Yeah, yeah, love it. Yeah,
1:04:08
I know they would you do this again if you knew how much work it was just sort of your own business and
Mark D. Williams 1:04:14
I thought last year it was funny and I think when I one builder the year mark delivers Custom Homes did and that following year and it be one of most difficult years I've ever had in business and Rick I remember calling you and you're like when you want builder the years several years prior you like we had the same experience you like patted me on the shoulder, like Welcome to the big leagues. As much fun as you thought, huh? And like so when you won this year? I want to tell the audience what did I send you a
1:04:38
bottle you sent me a bottle of whiskey. Yep. And I said I'm sorry
Mark D. Williams 1:04:41
you went below the year I hope your year is better than mine. Anyway, I'll tongue in cheek excited like it's not easy. I mean, we obviously on Instagram and on our websites of course you're portraying your best self right? You know, I mean, obviously you you want to be perceived as a very vital and we are but like it's difficult. It's really messy and it's hard and love Luckily we love it you know for good or for bad it's like we're in this because we love it
1:05:03
no and
1:05:04
really we are working with people and this is one of their most valuable assets very emotional they're creating like this is their their one shot they think you know at that moment at least that they're putting everything into this and they want it to be perfect. When there's so many options and sounds
Mark D. Williams 1:05:18
like you're the P word though I usually hit timeout and say what P is no such thing as perfection. Now we're getting to the comparison and failure. According Amy will work on our listeners find you guys. Social handles
1:05:33
all our social handles Instagram handle homes, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn
Mark D. Williams 1:05:40
on tick tock yet.
1:05:41
Oh, no. Yes, Ron. Well, we are Yeah, he hasn't made his Grammy appearance yet.
Mark D. Williams 1:05:46
Have your kids do it for you? They're probably better at anyway. Oh, yeah.
1:05:49
Eva does help me all the time. Eva, where's this? Where can I find this mom?
Mark D. Williams 1:05:52
Well, we'll have everything in the show notes. I can't thank you guys enough for coming on. It was a real pleasure. I knew I've known you guys for years but it's always kind of fun when you get this one hour you know together so for those listening please check out handle that calm and check them out. Sorry handle homes We'll edit that one out maybe check them out a handle homes.com and actually check them out at Mark de luz custom homes. I've looked it up my producer Yeah, we probably will have to edit that one out. Thanks again for coming on guys. It's nice to have you with us. Great
1:06:18
Yes, that was awesome.
Mark D. Williams 1:06:23
Thanks for listening to the curious builder podcast if you like what you listen to please give us a five star rating and write us a review. It really means a lot. It's a great way for us to just understand what you like about the podcast and what we can keep doing so like and review and please share with your friends and family. Find out more at curious builder podcast.com
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