Episode 21 - Kate Grutzmacher of The Scout Guide
Kate Grutzmacher: Building businesses by celebrating others.
Kate is the owner of The Scout Guide, Minneapolis and is the president of Cities Management. Her philosophy can be summed up with "you don’t build a business, you empower people and people build the business”. We discuss the process of buying a marketing magazine (The Scout Guide) and turning on its true potential through brand awareness, social networking, and connecting people in local markets.
Listen to the full episode:
About Kate Grutzmacher
Kate Grutzmacher, a Minneapolis entrepreneur, Editor of The Scout Guide Minneapolis, and President of Cities Management, is a local titan known for her unparalleled commitment to community engagement and collaboration. Kate’s vast experience and dedication to her various career roles have given her the chance to cultivate and enhance partnerships with the brightest talent in the local community.
While Kate spends her days leading one of the top property management companies in the state as President of Cities Management, an Associa Company, Kate is also the Editor of The Scout Guide Minneapolis. The Scout Guide is a curated guide of Twin Cities hottest spots, companies, people, venues, and events focusing on all things local and small business.
Kate is never done connecting, learning, and finding new meaning in every interaction in her daily life, and believes that every day is an opportunity to share her passion. Weaving the two worlds together Kate will always find joy in spending time with friends and family, supporting her teams, visiting local staples, and discovering new places and faces.
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Welcome to the curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today I'm joined with Kate Grutzmacher, the owner of the scout guide in Minneapolis and the president of cities management. Welcome, Kate.
03:04
Thank you very much.
Mark D. Williams 03:05
I'm excited to have you here. Today. As you know, as you've witnessed, as you've walked in, this is our last podcast at this building. This building's gonna be torn down. So you are instead the inaugural I don't know what that's not the final. But it's kind of like this celebratory period of time. So I feel very special. Yeah, you're the book end of this chapter of our you're like the last chapter before we go to book two of our series perfect. So well, why don't you tell our audience a little bit about who you are and what you do. And we'll kind of go from there. Wonderful.
03:33
So my name is Kate, I am the owner of the scout guide, Minneapolis, which is a local publication that some more supports all small business in the community. And it's a part of a larger franchise. We're in my goodness, I think 85 different markets at the moment, and growing very fast. And it's really just all about community. It's about supporting and celebrating the stories and the painstaking effort that it takes for a small business to be successful. That's true. It's very true. And it's it's about the community, it's about supporting one another. It's about creating a cohesive network that supports one another. And it also offers a very holistic opportunity for marketing and advertising for small business. It touches many all the important pillars of marketing. So it has editorial, an editorial component, and it has a print publication component. It has a social media component, and then it also has that networking capability between member to member
Mark D. Williams 04:38
I remember so we're recording right now in Linden Hills. So it kind of the 50s in France area for those listening and kind of you know, especially on Christmas time, there's the boutique shops around here specifically. And I remember coming across your scout guide, maybe it was before you owned it. We'll talk about that in a minute. And I remember seeing it I was like this is one impressive piece of marketing. I love marketing and The way you hold it the way you feel it's very tangible. It's very heavy, the cardstock. And you would know the more specifics. I just know, as a consumer, I was like, What is this, I wanted to pick it up, it's a little bit larger than like, you know, a travel notebook, if you will, in my memory. And I just remember the My first impression on it, seeing it was bold, photos, big photos. And, you know, I often give credit to Apple, I don't think they're the ones that created it. But like when I think of Apple's marketing, which they do such a good job with them from their packaging to the just the it's just very clean, very simple, big pictures, big things, versus at cluttered with a bunch of words. And so I often think of your publications all along those lines,
05:38
it has it's intended to be it's to look very high, high. Or in other words, just elevated or very exclusive as well. We're really limited as well by the binding of the book. So we can't go super, we can't have a ton of businesses. So it's, you know it there's a level of exclusivity to it. And it is, it is it's intended to be a keepsake, right? It's intended to be a coffee coffee table book. It's intended to last the test of time. And they're beautiful. So it's it's a beautiful brand we'll go into
Mark D. Williams 06:11
I'd like to go into some of the details on publishing. And you know, for those out there that are listening, this is mostly a construction podcast, but you kind of navigate this world, that seems like a large portion of your clients happen to be builders, real estate, you know, just because homebuilding is such a large segment of you know, really the United States is business spiderweb of businesses seems it's no wonder that it's all over your book as well. But I'd like to back up for just a minute and talk a little bit about you had mentioned it's an 85 cities or territories. So is it only in the United States? Or is it beyond? The US right now?
06:47
It's currently only in the United States. Okay.
Mark D. Williams 06:49
So then obviously, there's markets multiple markets within a state Minnesota, I would imagine it has probably only one
06:55
it does for now it has one, they've done some market research, and there is some opportunity for maybe if you go up the North Shore to like to lose, and you get into a little bit more difficulty when you have more of a like vacation, or, you know, that kind of seasonal market. You just the business base isn't isn't necessarily always there. But it does work. In some cases, like we have a market in Aspen, which is a very seasonal market as well. And some in Florida. There's a lot in Texas, because Texas is so huge. Yeah.
Mark D. Williams 07:28
Interesting. And what is it about? I can say as from a consumer standpoint, I like how it reads. What is it that attracts businesses to it? or what have you found that businesses like about it, cuz you mentioned is exclusive because I imagine there's only what two builders to like walk us through, like, how do you select who is allowed even in the publication.
07:49
So we really try to limit the categories. And so in any given category, category or industry, we really try to do three of those of businesses within that category, we don't want to be oversaturated in one category and not be able to feature the diversity of what Minneapolis has to offer. So it really and we also need to make sure there are some businesses that just don't align with our initiatives from a community based program. We, again are really interested in diversifying that our client base to really demonstrate that it's not just, you know, high end builders or interior decorators, there are a lot of other businesses out there that that deserve a spot in that book. And it really is important for us at at Scout guide, Minneapolis to show the vast diversity of what Minneapolis has to offer from hospitality and restaurants and, you know, the trades and even, you know, just product based boutiques, and there's just so much to offer here. And I think people just in general, don't understand the beauty of Minnesota and Minneapolis, the weather is not always great. But we have so much to offer. And we have so many wonderful things that people have no clue about. I tell people all the time, outside of Minneapolis, really hidden gem, you know, it's the cost of living is wonderful. The school system is amazing. Public School System is amazing. There's a lot to do, there's a lot of activities from outside, you know, the parks, the trails. So it's really just, it's really important to us to show the diversity of the community though,
Mark D. Williams 09:20
is it I'm just taking the name here. I haven't put a lot of thought into this other than like a here Scout guide. And I think of almost like the military, like you're a scout, and like you're out to scout, I guess enemy territory, you're supposed to scout the terrain. And then of course, the guide is someone that's giving you a guided tour, let's say I've just recently was, you know, overseas and you know, we got a tour of the Vatican and of Rome and so you know, obviously someone who knows the area can give you a nuanced approach of of what you're seeing is that where the name comes from?
09:47
Yeah, you know, and when we are out, you know, sourcing new clients or opportunities we always say scouts out and about. So yeah, it is it is and it's intended to be a tool when you do travel. So if you do go To, you know, Naples or you go, alright, so you can go to the website and you can log in, you can say, Oh, here's a restaurant or here's a great place to stay. You know, and there's a lot of connectivity Market to Market from there.
Mark D. Williams 10:11
I haven't considered that. That's so that's great being an 85 territories right now you can kind of go anywhere, and it's spread out. That's really cool. Yeah. What is when people are, I guess who is the intended reader? When they read this? Is this anyone that is located then in stores? Do people subscribe to it? Did they buy it? I guess, how are people finding discount guide.
10:32
So we, anyone that has a brick and mortar, we always encourage our clients to have them in their brick and mortars. We also have we were committed this sees this volume to print 20,000 volumes 10,000 of those volumes are direct mail. So our clients are able to we're able to really refine where their prospect client base is coming from. Are we do we need, you know, we can, we can isolate price points of homes, we can isolate zip codes, so we can do a lot of direct mail, so that the guide actually shows up in a beautiful cellophane clear envelope with a cut sheet and in their mailbox. So it's it's a great tool for a small business. Also, the expense of it, that direct mail expenses are burden. So the client doesn't have to, you know, invest more from a from a direct mail campaign.
Mark D. Williams 11:23
And because it's so high quality people aren't given to throw it away. That's kind of the whole point is like it stays and issues once a year or twice a
11:29
year, once a year. Okay, so we launch every year in October. Yep. Yep.
Mark D. Williams 11:33
And is that I assumed with retail, which is I'm guessing where some of this has been, I assume they're kind of from red to black is obviously November, December around the holidays, is that kind of a thought process that, hey, I want this book out before the holiday crush and Okay, yeah, we
11:46
get to capitalize on the season, for sure. And the with having an October launch, because of our seasons, we want to be able to shoot or give our clients an option to shoot in the summer months as well. So like right now we're publishing for, we're just closing our sales for October for October launch. We have, you know, probably a month or so left of photo shoots, and then we're done. And then we go into soft roof.
Mark D. Williams 12:12
Okay, interesting. How does so and I meant to ask this a little bit earlier. So I guess I'll ask it now. So is it a franchise? It is, and you bought it a year ago? Is that right? I did. Okay, that's what now we'll talk a little bit later in the podcast about your other career. You're a woman of many businesses, how do I guess what attracted you to the scout guide? How was it on your radar? And walk us through that evolution of buying a business? Because I think that's interesting.
12:36
Yeah. Well, it was not a planned thing at all. You know, I It came to me, I wanted to advertise for my for my primary business, it touches the client base that I absolutely want to, I'm attacking. And that's rough word. But generally, targeting targeting is a better word. But it just it really speaks to the clientele that I'm really pursuing. Not to mention, it is just it aligns exactly with a boutique high end, exclusive, you know, feeling that it's feel special feel special. Yeah. And so it was, you know, I had reached out to the former editor trying to advertise. And she was on a, you know, she was really looking to sell and she was kind of she was done. It's it's a it's a big lift to do what we do. And we are a small but mighty team. But so it just kind of fell in my lap. And then, you know, one thing led to another and I was like, well, let's do that. Do it. It sounds like fun.
Mark D. Williams 13:39
Interesting. Yeah. How, from a logistical standpoint, was there a team already in place? Or did you use your existing businesses team to help walk us through how you manage this? Yeah,
13:49
so No, there wasn't a there wasn't an existing team. And we revamped everything. So we revamp the way that we deliver service the way the client understands the expectation of the deliverables on our end. You know, we're very strategic about the social media messaging we have. So we have, we built this team, with a thought process that it takes, you know, it takes many to make sure that we're delivering and we're doing, we're doing our clients, a good service. And even though while it's, you know, it's a very affordable offering for a small business, it's still quite a bit of money. And so we want to make sure that we we create that value for the client, and we can help the client you know, we're a small business as well. So it's a it's a mutual beneficial partnership, for sure. So I have two primary other contributors to the scout guide. I have Natalie Fox, who is our associate editor and our social social media strategist. So that's her business. That's what she's done. She's an expert in it. So she'll step in and she'll meet with a client. So learn, what's your initiative, where, you know what, where do you want to see your biggest growth? What's your biggest opportunity? We learn your story? I And then we make sure that we're positioning that client online, to meet their needs, but also meet the needs of our of our followers, right. So making sure that it's in a lens and an atone that, that our followers and are the people that enjoy what we do at the scout guide, it's coming from that same voice as well. And that's a very, that's a very balancing act. And it's, it's wonderful. And Natalie is probably one of the most skilled professionals in that regard. Clients adore her. And then we have a creative director, her name is Selena, and Selena steps in and she helps from a creative, creative direction. So sometimes, you know, when you're looking at a photoshoot, and clients are like, I have to be in like I have, I have to get my picture taken.
Mark D. Williams 15:44
People love the camera, some people hate it,
15:46
right, I'm one of the people that do not necessarily enjoy to be forward facing in the in the, in the camera, but so we, you know, Selena will step in. And you know, she'll also do that deep dive with client, but then create a really creative opportunity for that photo to tell the story of the business. And it's some of the things she comes up with. I just, it amazes me,
Mark D. Williams 16:11
I agree she's actually sitting outside watching right now, and you are an amazing talent. I mean, I've seen some of your stuff for last year, because obviously we're looking at I mean, we are going to be in the scout guide. And so I'm looking at both from the curious builder, as well as for Marty Lynch custom homes. And, you know, obviously, my own personality is all over both companies, but I'm looking at some of the other businesses and it's just like, I see some of the ideas that you get, and they're just like, it's so gravitates me towards your publication. It's not necessarily for me and me only, it's not necessarily who's in it. But it's the way to represent it to your point. And like, I have a great affinity for art. And for artists, I don't feel very talented in that regard. But I really love watching that process happen. And like even an architect I love, I mean, obviously, I'm a home builder. So I'm dangerous in that department. But I can't draw the plans. I can't do what my interior designers do it but I love watching it unfold. And it's like, I'm as excited as the client seeing this B unfold that it's like they have two clients. And we're both reacting very positively to these first look. So when I see your guys's proofs, and I see some of the stuff that you're creating, I'm like, Oh, this is just this amazing. It's amazing. It's very well done.
17:16
It's amazing. And it's, you know, we, we had every intention for volume six. So volume six is the first volume that our team is producing. We, you know, we had a really great vision, and I think we'll get there, I just don't think we're there yet to do more creative and be a little bit more edgy, in the in the creative sense. But that takes that that's an evolution with a client, right. So the first the first one needs to be a little bit more, I don't want to say conservative, but not doesn't have that that strong artistic flair, like we would like to you know, so when we purchased the scout guide, Selena took a ton of time. And she really she built the, the book backwards. So she went and looked at all of these, you know, this imagery and looked all over. And then she chose image, you know, photographs and things that we want to copy or emulate in some way, shape, or form. So then, you know, she she'll say, Go find me a butcher,
Mark D. Williams 18:11
or that's a good idea. So yeah, almost, you have an idea of what you want the book to look like, and how to gravitate towards the person. So you can obviously have the buyer, right? And you're saying, hey, I need a butcher. Right? Because I have this great idea of what that's clever.
18:23
Yeah, it was an AI it has it worked well, in some cases and others, you know, we're, we're, we're just getting established, right? So we're, we're really working to help gain that credibility with these new clients. The majority of our clients for volume six, are not any clients that have ever been in the scout guide previous on one of them example, I know, I know. So that's really exciting for us. You know, we had a couple of our you know, Martin, Patrick three is one of our staples. They they are with us again, but I think we only had two or three renewals this year, which is great for us, because then we were able to really establish, yeah, we were able to kind of reposition that brand for the future. Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 19:01
I like that a lot. Interesting. How, how, why have other publications out of curiosity been slow to adopt that model, or not Shinsei that model? But why? I mean, it's easy to say, hey, go be more creative. That's a hard thing to actually do. It's easier to say but I mean, I assume that other public caterers would see what you do and be like, I mean, we have what we do, maybe we have a bigger distribution network or whatever it is that they they're pinning them on it because I assume like all of us, you know, I'm looking at other builders, what do they do? Well, we'll kind of adopt you know, we're always looking at our peers in the industry and even outside our industry, what can we adopt into our own to make ourselves better? I feel like you guys have such a strong niche in this. Why do you think other publications haven't adopted some of your techniques?
19:46
You know, I think that one, I don't know if the scout guide is viewed as a big competitor contender in the marketplace. i Why i don't know because we are and we are here and we are here to stay But you look at some of the other competitors within our market, and they all have wonderful service offerings. But they're very different. Right? They're very, they're not it's not a one time publication, you know, it's frequency, their monthly or quarterly.
Mark D. Williams 20:14
So it's just different. It's just different. So it's definitely, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah,
20:18
it's just different. And I think there is a space for everyone. And I also I encourage our competitors, you know, to be able to collaborate, and I think there's opportunity for CO marketing, and CO sharing. We're not there yet. But I think I really do believe we speak to two in two different lenses into two different sometimes clients, why not capitalize on both of those together and make us even stronger? So I don't the competition to me is not competition. It is we all we all soldiers, we all serve each other? Yeah. And that's, that's how we more all be successful.
Mark D. Williams 20:53
Right. I completely agree with that. I'd be curious to see how things trans, you know, go forward, because I don't often see multiple qualifications. You know, I don't know what that looked like. I think it'd be I would love to see how that transforms, because that'd be amazing. Yeah, it's
21:06
gonna be so and then every year, we do. So you know, we have a color, there's a color theme. So, you know, across the country for all 85 markets, or Minneapolis, Minneapolis. So every market has a different color theme every year. And it's a big deal. And we really, you know, we play on that every year. So this year, it was green. And it can explain a little bit why we arrived in the green cover. And next year, it's I'm not going to announce it. I mean, it's in the corner going No don't do. But it's going to be really, really, really neat. So we have our our color of our volumes will be launched at our war, polo classic event that we hold every year. So that will be kind of the unveiling of the next.
Mark D. Williams 21:49
Tell me about that.
21:51
So the Polo classic, it is such a near and dear thing to us. And I get a little bit emotional because it's just a great, great cause. It's an amazing foundation. So the pope polo Classic is an event that's held the first weekend in August. And it's one of the primary fundraising sources for a foundation called this old horse. And what this this old horse does is it takes, you know, horses, whether they're racehorses or workhorses, and they repurpose them and they give them quality of life till the end of their life. And it's just an amazing thing. And it's dear to me, because my stepdaughter, Stella's, she, she rides, she jumps, horses, she's, she's, that's her passion, she'll either be a vet, or she'll do something in this world. And so it's just it's, it's an amazing event. It's a very, it's held in Maple plain. It's, it's just, it's just a fun day. And I not many people even know about it, which is amazing to me.
Mark D. Williams 22:49
So I'm from the western side. So I think I mean, I think I've seen it once. But I haven't thought to go back. And I don't know if they have regular polo events.
22:58
The polo field, no, they really don't. I mean, they do do some training facility training stuff. But this is their big event on this polo field. So it's, yeah, it's
Mark D. Williams 23:06
I would love to go, I'm actually going to be out of town for a wedding that weekend. I just wrote it down, because I would love to go, but maybe I'll have some of our team.
23:12
Or you'll you guys will get it. So we host a large client tent. So that's one of our networking events as well. And then we're the official media sponsor this year. So we're helping with, you know, all the push out of the social media and the content. And Martin, Patrick three is one of the partners for this project as well. So it's a it's it's a great event, it's for a great cause. It's a great afternoon, and it literally is I think about it. We all know pretty woman, right? So like the movie Pretty Woman, and when they were at the Polo, the Polo event, and they're out doing a divot stomp, and it's literally like that
Mark D. Williams 23:47
she had the big hat. Yeah, it's a dress was like what red with white dots are white with red dots. So yeah, thanks, Julia Roberts, for my childhood. Yes, exactly. That's about all I know about Polo. Yeah, I actually played water polo. So I was going to be until you mentioned horses. The joke was that, you know, no, no horses were drowned in our matches. So there's no sea horses. But anyway, I would actually I would really wish they would have more polo events because I think I'd actually be kind of fun. I have young children. So I think it just be fun. My we actually had horses growing up as kids. And my dad was he actually did the horse and hunt where he would chase the fox and just hilarious because that just seems like that was something that happened 300 years ago in medieval England, not in western Minnesota. But I know a lot of our homes that we build are out in Medina independence maple plan, and you see these beautiful estates and there's a lot of horses out there there is
24:35
we have some exciting things coming. So for next year. We also are adding another component and it's with another foundation. So Folds of Honor, which is a veteran based folds folds. Yeah. And so we're in discussions with them as well to hold a their summer concert series on the polo field and capitalize a little bid on the pole, you know, there's tents and so that we can't we couldn't pull it together this year. But so last year, I think the the artists was leave rice. This year, I don't I do not recall the artists but you know, so it's usually a big headliner. And so they are, they're looking for a larger space to host more people and the polo field can hold up to 1800 2000 people. So that'll be an exciting thing. It won't be the same weekend of the Polo classic, it would be the weekend prior or after. But more to come on that one. That'll be fun. That's
Mark D. Williams 25:30
interesting. I think we're the curious builder. Actually, I'm not sure if this will air before after our live event, but I just love live events. I love capturing a bunch of people together. And so like last year, what were some of the things that you learned because you had this foundation last year with the polo match or not,
25:45
we were just, we just had a tent. So we that was our networking, remember a one of our member events. And we have a much bigger role this year. This year, we do so when we take on some of these events. So we do the Polo classic. And then we also worked with the Sani foundation, this this winter for the gala for goals. And so what we are our whole plan with the way that we when we take on events, or we're contributors to an event like that, or a foundation, the first year for us is a learning year. So we want to learn the ins and outs what what's working, what's not, how can we help? Where can we really contribute? How can we add value? It's not a winning model to take over a big production and not know anything about it. Right? So we want to learn the first year and then the next the subsequent years, we we play a much larger role. So that's this is your to for us for polo,
Mark D. Williams 26:35
almost like apprenticeship. But before we come, okay, that makes a lot of sense, actually. Yeah, I wish more people would do that. That seems that seems actually a good. I know, we do that in some of our committees with Minnesota Housing First, you know, they'll have you on a committee on a board, then you become, you know, maybe treasurer, vice president and president. So there's definitely a path sort of to success, I guess, or to leadership. Well, what else? That I guess what happened? I asked about the scout guy that would you like to share or that has kind of a unique vibe to it? Because,
27:04
yeah, I mean, I think just in general, you know, it's, it's just, it's intended to be a very positive experience, it's fun. It kind of pushes the comfort limit limits when you have to be in front of the camera, and you're taking pictures of yourself. You know, and I think, you know, this year again, for our first volume, we learned a lot, right, we learned some things that, you know, we maybe wouldn't do again, and some things that we're going to change for next year. And one of the things we're going to change for next year, which is really fun. And you're gonna love this too, because it's, you know, there's so much opportunity we have a very large following on on Instagram and social media. And so we're gonna, we're gonna use influencing influencer marketing. So more so next year. So you know, you'll see a lot more next year, social media wise, I'll be with the client. And we'll be experiencing things with the client and then pushing that content, the reels and the still images out with the client and helping them grow. And then so I think it'll be it's, we're really excited about the opportunity to kind of really refine the way we deliver on the social media and the digital side. So walk
Mark D. Williams 28:10
me through that. So let's, we'll use me as a case study. So let's say the curious builder podcast. So we're going to be a client this year. I should know this, but I don't. So obviously, I know the publication which comes out in the photo shoot, which we're lining up for now. Will air in the book next October, walk me through, like you do a series of posts, a number of posts, is it once a quarter, like walk us through? Because you have a number of clients? How many, like how many clients would be said book 100?
28:34
It could go Yeah, it could be up to 100 150. clients know, its pages. Sure. So you know, let's just use a round figure 75 clients. So they get there's a there's a there's a cadence of posting, right. So you can't post you really shouldn't post on social media more than once, once a day, right? You don't want to capitalize and it kind of messes with the algorithms. So you want to so there's very much scheduled, we only post when we know that our followers are online and engaged, we have those metrics. So next year, what we'll do is, let's just say the curious builder podcast, if you have a great you know, you have a scheduled podcast that you're going to be recording or it's a live event, I'll be there. And I'm going to take footage and we're going to have maybe just a really quick impromptu, quick little question five questions, you know, like, what did you like about that? You know, or we'll have a fight whatever, right. And that is the most engaging content people will find interesting, right? And so, we want to do more of that. And really,
Mark D. Williams 29:31
I think that's gonna catch fire. Because I mean, obviously we have a relationship. We can talk a little bit I mean, I've known your husband since I was in grade school, and you know, didn't realize that his wife was way more talented than him. And you know, you're a super your as your Titan in the industry. But the point of it is, is I think it's really amazing what you're doing because ultimately what it speaks to is your core value, which is the community supporting, let's say, Minnesota businesses, which really right now So the pot my podcast is also focused on as I'm interviewing, just specifically anything to do in construction. But really it's Minnesota. I mean, we have so much talent here and the craftsmanship and the people and yes, I'm biased because I'm Minnesotan, but I'm no, I think they're great. And so I love the idea that you're kind of almost like their cheerleaders, you're almost, I mean, I'm only thinking of like, my kids signed up for soccer. So it's like your soccer moms and dads, like you're going to these businesses, and you're their fans, right? You know, you're gonna be at our live event, you're gonna be at our artisan home tour. And like, you know, whatever your business, you could be a plumber, you could be a potter, you could be a real estate agent, you could be
30:34
a yoga studio. Yoga, I'm going to do a yoga class. So when one of our clients is, you know, they, they do yoga retreats, and they also have an office, or a studio here in the Twin Cities. And so, for me, I'm not a yogi, right? I don't do I've never done it. And it's really intimidating. Because I don't know any of the poses. I don't know anything. The last thing I want to do is go and sit with people that are like tenure, people that know what they're doing, because I'm gonna look like a fool. I don't do anything that I'm not good at. Right? So, you know, I, they had a photo shoot. Yesterday, I was like, why don't I come in? And I'll do a bit a beginner class, and we'll get some footage. And, you know, let's go market it. Let's try it. Now. Let's do it, please. Because they haven't rebounded from COVID yet, right? They're not fully rebounded, people are still still have a level of fear for whatever reason. So I'm like, let's try it. I'll try it, I'll probably be really sore for a week, but I don't know, I'll try. Yeah, so they loved it more than try that. Well, in next couple weeks, it almost
Mark D. Williams 31:32
becomes hence going back to the scout guide. It's like you're videotaping yourself as like a scout going to these places and experiencing I mean, you're embodying your name of your company, which I really applaud. And I think that's really neat. Now, I suppose even was one of the reasons why you bought the company. I'm not gonna say selfish, but like, it's gonna be kind of fun to just go to all these places and try all these things and see all these businesses. I mean, do you find yourself being like, Waldo, like wandering the streets, and, you know, looking at all these new businesses is that very enjoyable,
32:01
and I absolutely, and I love people, right. And I love to hear the story and the evolution of how they came, the stories are what are so compelling to me. They just, they, they're amazing. We have I've, we've some clients as that open their business during COVID, like, and some that that, you know, manage through COVID. And, you know, or it's a family owned business that's, you know, 50 years old, or whatever the case may be, the story is, to me, are like, just impactful. And I really think that just in general, our community, pre COVID got to a point where those stories didn't necessarily matter, anymore, but they are most important now. And people want to invest and reinvest in their community, and they really want to be rooted. And they want to feel like they've got someone that has their back and action, right, those connections, right, that human to human people are craving that. So that's, that's what's fun to me. And I these people, I love helping and I love supporting them, and connecting like, there's so many so much opportunity. I always I'm sitting with people and I'm like, Oh my gosh, you've got to meet. So and so in, I'm gonna make this introduction and I do and the synergies that that come from that are what makes me happy, you have
Mark D. Williams 33:14
a story that you can share. That's either a success story or a story that you just found very inspiring over the last year, just you mentioned some of these businesses that you've gone to where they've either started, you know, during COVID Or just kind of in a powerful story.
33:27
Oh my gosh, well, I mean, I think one of our clients you know, it's six it's six botique or six, it's two moms. The reason that boutiques name is six, they're in Excelsior. Jill and Bri are owners they you know, initially were just going to do an E commerce site they had just a small little like warehouse they did pop up shops and then this space came available in an Excelsior and now it's not on Water Street it's on I'm so bad with directions. Yeah, so it's I think it's on Main Street maybe or I don't even know what if I go if I look out the door and I look to the left print bowtique is to the like on the corner so it's that it's a yellow building. Okay. There any count me that I don't even really address. Thanks. Good job. Good job. Good. But, you know, they this building came out came to be and now they have this beautiful boutique and they're trying to drive traffic to them. And it's just, you know, like that, to me is a great success story. But then you look at you know, how can you help them? How do you drive traffic to them? How do you create that that synergy. Another boutique in Long Lake called gathered goods. Another great fun little spot just kind of evolved and she's doing great. And she the story there is she, I mean, she's got clothing, amazing clothing, but she has a ton of jewelry and it's all from Haiti. So she actually is her name is Tara and she might get this wrong too. But she was she taught ASL in Haiti. The flowers, and she got to know all these artisans in Haiti that create this beautiful jewelry. I mean, it's beautiful and not expensive, but beautiful and just really what is is in today, but it's supporting a local community in Haiti here in in Long Lake Minnesota. Like it's just that that is an amazing just story too. And she's just a really good human.
Mark D. Williams 35:24
Just so I have that. So English or sign language finding, okay. Okay. Yep. Okay. Just wanted to make sure. It's pretty easy for the artists and she was buying from them. They were hearing impaired or deaf somewhere. Yeah. Oh,
35:36
that's beautiful. It's just it's a really cool story. Oh, my gosh, we have so many fun clients. We have a matchmaker,
Mark D. Williams 35:42
which matchmaker like making matches or like me getting people together,
35:46
together, okay, people together, she she has a location here. She has one in Arizona in Florida. It's a family owned business. You know, yeah, it's great. It's, it's amazing. We have
Mark D. Williams 35:56
so relationships like husband, wife, boyfriend, girlfriend, or like matchmakers like businesses like alright,
36:00
every No, no, this is like, you know, husband, are you dating? And yeah, so interesting.
Mark D. Williams 36:06
I mean, obviously, I'm familiar with, like, match.com. and stuff, but this is a more of a custom boutique
36:13
it is. So basically, you know, she'll get to know you. And then she has clients that have like, you know, said, I want to be matched with someone, you know, someone of whatever, right. And I think just today in today's day and age that for, for, you know, busy professionals, and she primarily serves like C suite executives and above. But, you know, like that, that's a hard thing to do. It's a hard thing to get out there and put yourself out there when certainly when you're a little bit older,
Mark D. Williams 36:38
I love hearing I mean, you're obviously a female owner of multiple companies, you just mentioned three women that own their companies. I love the idea that we have so many women owning and feeling empowered to start a business and be successful. And I had mentioned you one of the things I want to talk to you about was, can you speak a little bit to I think a lot of and especially as being a man, I can't speak about this, because I still don't know about it. But how can you speak a little bit to what is, in your eyes? How is running a business as a woman different than a man? And number two? What are other any advantages? I mean, I can think of several but what from your point of view? What are some advantages of being a woman owning a business, because I think, you know, construction, the rug and bring us back to construction a little bit is, you know, I feel like our industry could use way more female lead construction companies and the ones that are killing it, they're so good, because in the homebuilding space, you know, when I'm talking to, you know, a husband and a wife, you know, most of the decisions are made by the wife. And so I just feel like there's so much opportunity in construction, and and we've been very slow to change to have more female lead, you know, positions of power. And I don't know why that is, if there's a lack of interest, or if it's, I guess, I can't speak to that, because I don't know,
37:50
I think it's probably a lack intimidation, you know, there's, it's, it's definitely a male driven industry. And it's a different, it's a different way to approach things, you know, it's right or wrong. You know, I think that construction, and this plays into my my day job. But, you know, I think it's just, it's just there aren't women out there that that, you know, wake up and say, I want to run a construction company, right? No, or, you know, we have architects and of course, everyone, there's, there's women in every industry, but it's not, it's just not, it's not prevalent yet, right? It's super fun. It's super interesting. And you're right, it does have the opportunity to really connect on that human to human level, and really be able to compel clients and support clients through that, that very emotional process, extremely
Mark D. Williams 38:40
emotional. Let's be honest, women are way more empathetic than men, just baseline percent. And I'm sure there's men out there that are very good. I'm not. And so I just feel like you're right, because building is so emotional. And I think, you know, just counseling a client. I mean, I made sure that like on our team, you know, we have several women just think it's really important. Plus, I just want a well rounded team. And yeah, frankly, you know, women are mostly better at pretty much everything. Oh, I mean, it's true. And so, you know, I was I was a good friend of mine. From style instructor I just mentioned, she, I feel like her whole team is women. It's not she told me it's like, 5050, but my, it's always their social media profile. And it's just like, man, if you gave me, you know, seven high powered women, especially in the social media world, like you would just dominate, like, you know, there's so I mean, there's just, she's so good at what she does. And it's like, I'm just like, you know, give her that. That's just amazing. I want to come join my team, or maybe I'll join her team. Yeah. So it's great.
39:37
I, you know, I think that just women in general have a lot to offer, right? They have a little bit more. You know, I think from an organizational perspective, even and being able to be more proactive and also from a from a multitasking perspective, you know, we have we're forced to be able to, you know, to have to multitask and manage To house and manage children and then manage a career as well. And, you know,
Mark D. Williams 40:04
like I like at this point, what's one more ball? I've already been juggling six. Right,
40:07
exactly. You know, it's just it's just one more thing. And I don't, you know, I definitely have frazzled days, make no mistake, but for the most part, it's, you know, we're just it is what it is. And we are, we're charging forward, and we just you get it done. Yeah, there's no time to feel sorry, or whatever, right? I've got two sick kids at home, you know? Well, we got to do you know,
Mark D. Williams 40:27
yeah. Do you feel like it because let's talk about your day job here. And maybe you can tell the audience what that is? Because that is related to construction. So maybe for my next question, why don't you tell us a little bit about what that is?
40:38
Sure. So I'm the president of a company called City's management. And it's owned by associa, which is the largest property management company in the world. And so in that role, I lead a team that manages homeowner associations, and then we also have a construction, construction and maintenance side of the business as well. So we're a general contractor, we can do anything from you know, insurance claims to building a home, remodeling a home anything of that nature as well. And then just you know, that onesie twosie little maintenance stuff, too, that
Mark D. Williams 41:11
you are the ones the 20 we do every year, we do that as like the entire
41:15
we do, we do everything. And in homeowner associations and managing homeowner associations, that's imperative, you know, for the, you know, the onesie twosie little things that you know, you don't want to call in a sub contractor to do, you know, a gutter repair or something. So we have those, you know, work order based technicians. And then we also have our big, our big outfitters based out of Minnesota associate is not associates in Texas, the corporate headquarters are in Texas, but we have locations everywhere. And then, but cities, obviously, is our offices in the Northeast, where local, you know, we really pride ourselves at cities, as a boutique offering, we can really customize a service plan for a client. And so you know, some of the bigger run, even though we're owned by the biggest property management company in the world, we are, we're we're like a little independent silo, right? So we manage everything on the daily, you know, we have our own office, we manage our own team, we have a team of 65 ish employees. And we manage about 235 associations. So by no means are we small, but we're intimate. And that's really what we want to say that
Mark D. Williams 42:25
would be mostly hence the name would be Minnesota based properties and things like that. How did you get into it?
42:30
I have been in the industry a really long time. I've been doing this 25 years, I worked for another national firm for 1212 years. And, you know, I don't think anyone wakes up and says, I'm going into property. It's just not a career that people would choose. But for me, you know, raising a family and it gave me the flexibility and and that I could, you know, still be very successful, but still go to the kids choir concerts and volunteer in the classroom and do the things that were also very important on the on the home front. So it worked very well for me,
Mark D. Williams 43:04
did you kind of rise up through different ranks of like, walk us through high level, just some of the your maturation over 25 years to become president? Yeah,
43:11
I did. So I started out, you know, I was a single mom. And we I needed to go back into the workforce. And so I started out as just a portfolio manager, and, and then slowly grew. And then I was a more like a crisis, Mandroid step in when a client want to own an account was in trouble. And I'd work with the client, and I'd fix it, and then I'd reposition it and turn it back over to the ops team. And then they approached me and said, You want to try business development? It's like, Well, sure. I was the number one salesperson in the nation for three years standing. And then I kind of like looked at the market share after those three wonderful years. And it was like, Well, there's only about, you know, let's just use round figures. $3 million in market share. Last year, I sold 3.7. I'm gonna press myself a job. So I, you know, they approached me and said, Are you interested in m&a, mergers, mergers and acquisition? I was like, Sure, I'll try. I don't know. But I'll try it. Right. So I did a tuck under acquisition for them, and with great success, and then I led an urban team for the balance of my time there. And then I kind of had hit the ceiling, you know, in property management. It's a pretty flatlined organization, you've got just that mid level level management, and then you jump right to that VP and President level. And at the time at that organization that the two, you know, executives, were principals of the company and they weren't gonna retire anytime soon. So there really just wasn't much opportunity for me to just at
Mark D. Williams 44:38
that point, you felt like hey, I've got a lot to offer. And at this point, you've kind of gone through the ranks. You're like, what's next? So you got to move.
44:44
Yeah, so I, I was approached by a multifamily owner operator on the on the rental side, and, you know, kind of jumped into that side of the business. So still property management but on the rental side, and you know, it's into seem to say that, you know, you're you don't really see that commingling often between the homeowner associations and the rental world. Why is that? Just different, it's just different businesses, different businesses, different models, different service delivery models, different cadence, different, just technical, different things, you know, different initiatives on the homeowner association side, you're preserving an asset, you're you're preserving someone's financial investment their home, right? On the landlord side or the rental side, you're obviously you want to preserve the asset, but you want to do it as the least expensive as you can, because you have ownership that you have to provide distributions to and it's you know, so it different initiatives, not wrong or right either way, just different. And so I'm such a customer centric, I'm a servant leader, I just that is just who I am to the core. And that's likely why I gravitate so much more to the homeowner association side, the homeowner ownership side versus the rental side. Now I say that we have a rental division at cities as well. So I mean, it's a great opportunity for everyone. But my my sweet spot is on that homeowner side,
Mark D. Williams 46:12
right? Interesting. There's a quote that I saw in your bio, that I really liked that I want to use your philosophy and it says you don't build a business, you empower people and people build the business. I think that's a beautiful statement. Can you just explain a little bit how you came upon even that wording? Is that a quote? Is that something that just how did that come to be? Because I think that's a really powerful statement. And it seems like you mentioned your servant leader, and so that even that comment alone kind of embodies the statement. Yeah,
46:37
you know, I just, I had impeccable training. Honestly, I really did. I, my former firm, I owe a lot of my success to them. And I get emotional, because they invested in me as much as I invested in them. And they taught me that.
Mark D. Williams 46:52
Yeah. Yeah, I'm so beautiful. I mean, essentially caring about people soccer, if you care about people, I do. Yeah, I really
47:00
do. And it's, you know, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a something you have to practice, you know, you really have to practice, you know, taking your emotion out of something, and, and positioning us any situation, and I'll tell you, in this side of the business, you get your tail handed to you. I mean, the it's a tough, it's, it's really tough, and even post COVID, it's even more tough, and the labor force is even tougher. But, you know, it's, it's, it's, um, it's really honestly, it's the most unselfish position of, with, with your employees and with your, with your clients, and just putting yourself in those shoes in their shoes and really, going above and beyond always,
Mark D. Williams 47:47
in now, just so I'm clear your speaking of how you lead with your people or with your clients, both both
47:54
both. It's both the same approach. It's leading and coaching to their you know, so, you know, homeowner, homeowner associations and Board of Directors, they're all volunteers, right? So they sit on this board, they don't know, they don't know how to preserve an asset. They don't know, the statutes. They don't know the laws, they don't know the requirements. And so we're in a position to teach them and lead them right, and to deliver excellent service, but also coach them through those really difficult things and to take that burden off of them. Because without them because they're essentially
Mark D. Williams 48:24
Yeah, they're board directors that are going to vote on but you're the expert that's coming in saying, Hey, here's your problem, you've got $100 million building, and you know, all your metal siding has been hit by a hailstorm or it's bad or whatever, here's your and then you kind of walk them through that.
48:39
Or you know, you look at you know, I've done some amazing projects over the years. You know, like one, Northstar laughs is a beautiful condominium building on the river. And it's an old converted blanket manufacturer, so it's Northstar blankets, which is a, you know, was a really big outfit in the 20s 30s. Kind of like a Faribault. That same thing. And so this, they're, they're beautiful condos, and the owners in that, in that community are just they they became they became my pupil. Right. And so they had a, they had a historic sign the two historic signs that were just they were getting to be incredibly dangerous. And this association, it's tiny, tiny 30 I think there's 31 units and that Association, and the rehabilitation for the sign was upwards of a million dollars. And you know, yes, very fluent group of people. But if you spread out that much money over only a very small amount of units, that's really impactful to anyone. And so we looked at all options of how do we finance this? What did we do? We actually were able to get a grant that funded 50% of the rehabilitation of the site, and it was just a passion project. We tried it once I learned how to navigate All the grant work and we had some wonderful consultants as well, too, that taught us the way. But we the first time we submitted, we failed, we didn't get it. And then the second time we did, and it was just that to me, your government grant or a state grant, it was a state grant. Okay. It was a state through through the government through the government. Yep. Yeah. So we had to go and present at the, at the Capitol, and it was a great experience, it was fun. And, you know, but that, again, they
Mark D. Williams 50:26
were probably really supportive and encouraging. Because it's, I mean, people tend to love to preserve history if they can, especially in a meaningful way. So,
50:32
and we were able to rehabilitate the sign back to, you know, with LED lights, and so it's just in every time I drive across the bridge of you know, and I see that sign lit up at night, a story that is impactful to me, you know, that is that's why what i That's why I do what I do.
Mark D. Williams 50:48
I think one thing I've never thought about in terms of because I'd love to market, but I've never thought if you were someone who specializes in marketing, it must be extremely empowering when you help a company with marketing or restoration in this case, and then you see their business flourish, right? Because you would feel like, well, I've had a hand and that business being successful, yes, they had a message, but we help to get that message out there. Or, you know that, you know, that company did a great thing, but nobody know who they were. So never thought about it. From that standpoint, I've always pursued marketing in the sense that I want to tell my story, and I want to sell me, but I can see how both parties would be feel very fulfilled in that arrangement.
51:27
It's really fun, it's really fun to see those success stories and see how your clients can really grow and flourish. And, and that, you know, whether you get the accolades or not that you you did play a part in that success story.
Mark D. Williams 51:39
So this is interesting. So you've you've gone through, I don't want to necessarily call it corporate, but you've got through big kind of big company, you, you know, that's your day job. Evidently, you have a three person team for the scout Guide, which is kind of, I assume it's a lot bigger than a, quote, passion project, but it is you're passionate about it. So it's kind of how how has this, you know, kind of fulfilled you in a different way from your other career that kind of similar? Do you find any overlap between the two?
52:06
I find a lot of overlap. It's very, I didn't think I would, I do though, but it's, it's fulfilling in a different way it you know, I think it's a bit of a release for me too. So are in in property management and running a business, obviously, there's a lot of, you know, stress and challenges, and you have a lot of people counting on what you're doing. And, you know, so I think for the scout guide, for me, it's it's a release, it's something that's really incredibly enjoyable. And I, I do feel like we have the ability to make such a great impact for the clients we serve and the community that we serve. It's it fulfills me It fills my tank for sure.
Mark D. Williams 52:43
I like that. One thing that didn't keep it more from a, from a business standpoint, I think those listening would find this helpful. What are some lessons or things that you've learned even like structuring a company, you have a small company and you're president of a 65 person company, you know, hiring and firing people is difficult at best. And walk us through just some things that you've learned over the years both and I don't know, if you can compare in between, you're unique in the fact that I have ever had anyone on the podcast yet that is an owner of two businesses, one small and one big. So you've got a unique position to, you know, contrast and compare that to what comparisons can you draw between the two in terms of just staffing and I guess, to speak to people, because regardless of what business you have people is what empowers it? Right?
53:30
That's true. You know, I think from from a large organization perspective, you know, it's, it's hard right now, it's really, really hard. And my, my smaller company, you know, Scout guide, it's more intimate, and we're more, there's a very, very strong sense of family. And it's something that I really focus on emulating in the big in the big company, as well. And we reference it a lot at cities, and we call it cities family. And we do a lot of culture shaping activities, and we try to do a lot of just mental health, wellness, because it is such a very, very difficult industry.
Mark D. Williams 54:09
And why do you why do you say that you said, is it because it's a bigger company? Like all companies that are big? Or is it specific to what you're doing?
54:16
It's the industry, it's, you know, we only have so much control over the circumstances of what happens right on the daily and, or however, and more humans and a company run by humans and humans sometimes make mistakes. And so it's, it's, it's tough. The climate right now, from a customer service perspective, is really, really difficult people, the level of patience in just the general population is pretty non existent. The level of expectation is jumped and an astronomical,
Mark D. Williams 54:48
awesome, this is like a pie chart of like, it goes like this.
54:50
It's like it's amazing. And then you have people that are living in their homes 80% More of the time. So they're seeing so much more, not that those things are I'm getting addressed, but they want this instant resolve. And it just it doesn't, it's impossible to consistently resolve issues or, you know, things instantly when you're dealing with a volunteer board. And you know, you have a portfolio manager that has six or seven accounts in their book of business, like you the amount of
Mark D. Williams 55:22
insurance. I mean, we're going through an insurance thing right now. And it's honestly like, don't get me it's hard. It's like herding cats. It's like, Oh, my word. It's difficult. And so it's, yeah, I've got four different insurance companies all saying different things. And, you know, I have a client who wants you know, some resolution, and I would do I want resolution. Yeah. And it's taking months to get what I think should be a yes or no one stuff. And once you get one, then you've got to go to the next one. Yeah. And I mean, I can see now why. I mean, it's just a lot more time consuming, and aggravating, especially if people's patience level is so low. Yeah, it's very difficult.
55:59
Yeah, we, we, we talk a lot about and, you know, we try to really instill the message to the clients that finding a level of grace, right, and, and appreciation for what we do. And we don't do everything perfect. And I'm the first to say it, I think the difference between what we do at cities and others, is that we own it if we make a mistake, right? And sometimes, you know, I've definitely in my span of my career, I've made pretty substantial mistakes, and they cost a lot of money. But that is just if you're with the right company, and you're you you have the same they have the same value system, as you know, that community or or that board, they'll come to the table. And we do and so, you know, it's just that grace and understanding that if if people don't start to find that grace, for the people that are serving, we're not going to have the people that that surf. Yeah, they're going to be non existent. Because there's so many options out there today in that labor force, that they don't need it. They don't want it. Right. Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 56:57
it'd be interesting to see. I mean, you hear some rumblings but you know, commercial stuff, you know, long term as a lot of these, as I think I understand it as, as the commercial valuations and loans reset on these big commercial buildings where there's nobody in them. The values will drop, it'd be very interesting to see how this trickles out in the next five years. Yeah, I don't know what the timeframe of this is gonna be.
57:19
But so we deliberately so my, my lease is up, my office lease is up for cities. It was last year. And we we extended it a year just because of the commercial. The just the timing of it all just wanted to see where where the cards would fall. And actually, it's very interesting. We have to move in April of next year. But the same spaces that we looked at last year are still there.
Mark D. Williams 57:42
That amazing. That's amazing. And that's just I assume that it's obviously tangential to you know, homebuilding, you just mentioned people are in their homes now. People now don't want to leave, which is good for remodeling, good for building. There's this very interesting dynamic we find ourselves in and be curious to know, I guess I don't only builders outside the United States, but I'd be curious to know how outside the US how this has impacted corporate culture versus homes. But
58:10
yeah, so my, I mean, I was in Spain for work last October, and they're impacted as well, just a little same way. Same way. But I mean, it's a more people are working from home overseas as well, more people are working from home, they're not going into the office. There. I think in Europe, specifically, they're more conscious of, of COVID. And they're more apprehensive of that of, of what we just went through. You know, not to mention with the energy crisis in Europe, too. It's it's a very interesting climate in Europe, for sure. Right? Yeah.
Mark D. Williams 58:43
Well, let's see, I always like to do Do you have a favorite quote, as we wrap things up here? My goodness, Nick quotes that come to mind that
58:51
puts me on the spot? No, I mean, I'm not really a great quote person. I just think that for me, people are key.
Mark D. Williams 59:00
Oh, yeah. Favorite book? I mean, what do you do for self education for kind of continuing education for yourself or your podcast?
59:09
Podcast? Mindset is one of the ones that I love. Yeah. You know, I really like to tease my brain about how do you compel people and work with people and lead them and pull them along versus you know, that micromanagement feeling and well, you know, I still have an end result I know where I need to get but I'm going to help you get there.
Mark D. Williams 59:27
No, I like that. And what what's kind of fun and upcoming personally for then the next year you gotta think kind of fun and exciting.
59:34
Oh my goodness, no one in the middle of summer. Household have a busy household. We have six children. So you know we our summers are busy for us. We have lots of sports, my son races motocross, so that's always fun. He's, it's crazy. So we'll be traveling a little bit quite a bit for him this year, and you know, everyone's just great. It's just I I enjoy enjoying my family a lot.
Mark D. Williams 59:57
Yeah. Well, it was beautiful to have you on. Thank you. for sharing your story, and I love hearing it. And we'll be seeing you obviously, more in the next year as we get to work together. All right, if you want to hear more you can check out Kate I guess what we're so the scout guide. Some of your social handles, you've got the scout guide in
1:00:16
Minneapolis and find us on Instagram. And then cities management, just www cities. management.com all spelled out.
Mark D. Williams 1:00:23
And we'll have everything in the show notes as well. And thanks again for coming on. And thank you. If you like the show, please rate and review and give this guy Minneapolis a follow. Appreciate it.
1:00:32
Thank you so much. All right. Thanks. Good. Bye. Well, that was fun. That went fast. Yeah.
Mark D. Williams 1:00:38
Well, not as fast as our coffee one. But that was like a two hour thing like that. Got a little hot in here. You take it out. Yeah,
1:00:45
I'm sweaty. Good. Funny. Do you what else? Anything else?
Mark D. Williams 1:00:53
No, that was a
1:00:56
really good conversation. I don't mean to get emotional.
Mark D. Williams 1:00:58
I like it when people are emotional. I think people gravitate towards emotion. I probably in hindsight, if I should, I probably should have started with cities with the cities just because that would have brought in the get the my regular. I was kind of circling of how do I make this? Not that as a stretch, but like, how do I make tie it in? Most of them are builders, designers will knew who you were right away. I'll put it in the notes. That basically the second half of the podcast, we talked about, you know, cities and I'm open to that. But I also wanted to speak about marketing because I mean, a lot of people that obviously our business right now are the people that are listening our business owners and our me, our peers, essentially it's not really our clientele that's listening. Hopefully they do but most of it's our peers as well. Thank you very much.
1:01:47
Oh, it's great. It was fun.
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