Episode 19 - Kirsten Erickson & Ethan Kindseth of Alma Homes
Let's Talk Media Strategy: Breaking down the interconnection of social media marketing and business growth, while staying true to your brand and not spreading yourself thin.
Alma Homes founders, Kirsten and Ethan, are here to share how their custom home business has grown to its level of success, and the strategies they're implementing to keep scaling up. Future architect turned designer and spreadsheet queen, Kirsten breaks down the analytics across their various platforms and why they especially focus on website traffic to retain traction. Attorney and framer, Ethan, has always loved the creation process and brings his business and building knowledge to the table. Together they bounce off each other’s strengths and drive their brand forward. This is a must-listen for ambitious business owners looking to grow their company and brand sustainably.
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About Kirsten Erickson & Ethan Kindseth
Kirsten Erickson is the Owner of Alma Homes, a boutique design-build firm based out of Minneapolis, MN, which she runs with her husband Ethan Kindseth. She founded Alma in 2017 with the intent to create beautiful homes that are designed around the way her clients’ lived.
Ever since 8th grade, Kirsten knew she wanted to become an architect, but had no real-life exposure or experience in the industry. So, she threw herself into the design world during college, graduating with a Master’s of Architecture, an MBA, as well as minors in Housing Studies and Construction Management.
Ethan, on the other hand, did grow up in the construction industry, and by the time he was 13, he was running his own framing crew. Ironically, he didn’t see his career being in construction so he went to law school and worked as an attorney for several years after graduating. Eventually, he found his way back to the construction industry, all while keeping his law license active and our contacts in tip-top shape. As a company, Alma Homes focuses on building high-end custom homes and completing whole-home remodels in the Twin Cities metro area. We also offer our interior design services nationwide and have had the privilege to work with clients all over the country. We believe that your home should be a reflection of your style and the way your family lives, and as such, are thrilled to work with clients who end the build process feeling like family.
Resources
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Today on the curious builder podcast, we've got Ethan and Kirsten in this great conversation that we had. And we focus most of the time on just their social media strategy. It's really interesting to hear how they've grown their company, the different platforms, that residual income, just really interesting way and even a little bit about time blocking and how to preserve your personal life. So without further ado, let's bring it over to Alma Holmes and Ethan and Kirsten on the curious builder podcast. Welcome you guys.
01:06
Thanks for having us.
01:08
Thanks for having us.
01:09
We've known each other for a while and I think kind of was kind of a neat deal is we both won our respective builder the year and remodel of the year trophies at the same time.
01:18
We did that was it was so fun to be able to share it with you because we're like, well, it's something that we love that actually is winning at the same time. So it was a fun experience. It
01:26
was really fun. I mean, we had no idea that year that I kind of forgotten we even signed up for it. Yeah, you know it's funny because my wife didn't come and you know, we're that the big night as they call it and they call your name and I remember when they started describing people and I was like Man that sounds a lot like me. Yeah, you know you guys went up we went up and it was just kind of it's kind of fun to have that you know now you have this you know, kind of this bond you know for whatever reason it is and so it's like as we're appears in our group and we support each other it's just really that's just kind of cool to have that in our in our history if you will. What one thing I actually don't know how in the world did you guys come up with the name Alma Holmes I'd love to as we've had people on the podcast and I only say this because I recently the summer was was thinking about renaming my company because you know at some point you hope to sell your brand and you know my name is really long it doesn't fit on merchandise very well Mark dealers custom homes you need like a sombrero to fit it on not normal hat.
02:16
Hey, that would be great branding. You should you should get sombreros actually
02:19
agreed. All right. All right, done. This summer. We are going to do Mark Dylan's custom home sombreros. All right, I'll give you one guy's perfect. All mahomes How did you come up with any mobile homes? What's the what's the backstory there?
02:31
I mean, are we gonna tell him it's top secret? Okay, can give you an exclusive? That's fine. I'll do it. No, I'm kidding. No, we actually, it's a funny story. Because we knew for sure, we didn't want to use our names because we wanted it to be its own entity, and all mean soul and Spanish. And we both just really pour our heart and our soul into the homes that we build. And it felt kind of warm and fuzzy. It's funny, though, because when we did start the company, one of my aunts actually asked me she was like, oh, Kyrsten did you pick all mo because it starts with an A, and A is at the front of the phone book. We don't use bone books anymore. So no, that's not why.
03:06
Right, like triple A, yeah. genius move. I mean, your Grandma's not wrong. Like onpoint with it. Just you know, generations. Yeah,
03:13
exactly.
03:14
That's actually funny. Yeah. Well, that's, that's beautiful. And you guys, I mean, I know a little bit of your backstory. But maybe for those that don't tell us a little bit about, you know, how you guys came to own a building company and remodel and just, you're just kind of some of the history of how you got into it.
03:29
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we have very different backgrounds. I did not grow up in the industry. I loved math, and I loved art growing up. And I kind of stumbled my way into architecture and loved it fell in love with it went to school for architecture, and then always thought I would be more in the architecture realm. But then I graduated grad school, in like the recession, like there were no jobs and ended up getting a job with a custom home builder, and just fell in love with the building side of design as well. And that's where he and I actually met and then we were friends for a long time. I always knew I wanted to have my own company. But I met Ethan and I'm like, oh, like we're, we're very opposite in our strengths. So it'd be a lot easier together. But you can you can tell your background, you have a very different background than most than most.
04:19
Yeah, well, I sort of grew up in the trade. So my dad was excavator did concrete, stuff like that. So I kind of had a little bit of exposure as a kid, a young kid. And then I started framing when I was 13 I think so. I had to about by that age, and I was working full time. But anyway, I decided I really hate this. I don't love being outside in the winter and this kind of stinks I don't I don't want to I don't want to earn a living this way. So I thought well see back then lawyers was the thing to do is like I want to make a lot of money and I don't want to have to work super hard. Are
05:00
you a lawyer?
05:02
Well, I'll go, I'll go be a lawyer. So I went to college young. And I went through all that training. I kept framing the whole way through. So I framed, you know, my whole life basically till
05:14
that's a unique Venn diagram. Lawyer framer, yeah,
05:18
yeah, well, it was interesting, because when I got out of law school, I, you know, people say, Well, what do you what else do you do? And I'm like, I'm a framer, and they're like, well, like, what picture frames? I'm like, No, like building houses, you know. So a lot of lawyers were, you know, at least in my schooling, were very disconnected from that. But
05:36
what discipline of law did you practice?
05:39
I did. I did some personal injury I did. I did a lot of business litigation stuff, especially during the recession, the last big recession. But I, it wasn't my thing. I just, I don't regret doing it. It's been a great thing to have, from a business standpoint. All that but I just, I love seeing the finished product. I love working with clients. And kind of at the end of the day, you have something beautiful to look at and say you helped create and how, wow, that's really cool.
06:12
That is cool. Amazing story. How often do your clients? Do they know that you're a lawyer? Or does it come out later? Because it'd be really fun if Kristen was like, a design meeting. And they were like, well, we'd like to run that by our lawyer. And then she could just look at you and be like, Ethan, what do you think?
06:24
I mean, we strategically dropped that little tidbit of information with certain clients if they seem to be a little difficult, like, did you know that Ethan is actually an attorney? Yeah, who would have thought? Right? Oh, they get in line very quickly. Thankfully, we have some great clients. So we haven't had to drop that for a long time.
06:42
It definitely comes in handy, though. Yeah, in those situations where it's really good to have that. Yeah. And, yeah,
06:48
that's interesting. I mean, this the last couple of years, I've just, you know, redoing our contracts. And some other stuff is I mean, it is expensive. So I mean, it's nice. I mean, it's a little bit, I think, people, it's somewhat analogous to, you know, when people do social media in house, they think well, okay, if you're gonna, if you're gonna outsource this, it costs, you know, whatever, per month and ours, there's still time. I mean, so, you know, we can transition to that now. I mean, you are, you know, very well, and very prolific, you know, on all your social platforms. But, you know, I assume that's, is it a team? Or is it mostly yourself alone that's doing, there's so many avenues. I mean, this is going to kind of go all over. But I guess, just to finish up this analogy is like, you know, same deal with lawyers. I mean, it still takes a lot of time. And so while sometimes you just see this invoice, and you're just like, wow, they're billing hourly, for all this, that's all their years of expertise. It's all that and I would imagine, now, if you were to take over someone's Instagram account, you know, your decade where experience is gonna, you're gonna be able to do things 10 times faster. And so it's actually worth whatever rate you would charge for? Absolutely.
07:45
I mean, that gets back to you know, with interior designers that charge hourly versus doing fixed price, too. It's, you know, you're paying for my years of experience, not how many minutes it takes me to complete a task, because that task, there's a lot of education that went into completing that task. So
08:01
I think that's important to sometimes remind people, I think sometimes, too, you know, people will, you know, they always want to negotiate the last thing in a sworn conservative statement, right? I mean, you guys do mostly cost plus or fixed bid, and you're, we're fixed, fixed bid, and we do on your new homes as well. Yep. Okay, it's we do mostly, we've switched mostly to cost plus over the last couple of years, just with the market. And, you know, people inevitably want to look, I guess that's one of the advantage, or one of the things you have in a fixed bid is that, you know, hey, we're buying the house, it's this, no matter as long as they don't change the scope, that's what you can deliver to them were for us, you know, they tend to if they can't control cabinets, or can't control something else, then they'll look at the bottom line, they're like, Well, I don't like this fee. And so it ends up being, you know, they're talking about this beautiful home, and a lot of the time and energy is spent discussing our fee. And so trying to you know, it's not that it's not important, it's certainly happy to talk about it. But it's really just trying to, you know, help them understand the value of it. And so it's interesting, I've recently just been more involved with other builders from around the country. It's amazing how actually, the percentages in the Midwest are far lower than they are in other sites like out in California, their GC percentages are like close to 20% for new construction, like that's crazy high compared to the Midwest. And their cost of goods would be so much higher as well. I mean, you know, let's call it a $2 million dollar house here is probably a five to $6 million house out there. Yeah. And their labor is, you know, very difficult to get in because they have to drive such long distances. Absolutely. Well, I wanted in particular with you guys bring you on because you have this incredible social platform in so many avenues. I'm sure you get this question a lot. But how walk me through a little bit of the growth and for those listening, I mean, I just looked last night, I mean, your Instagram is close to 200,000. YouTube, we have 61 on YouTube tube is really not 61,000 people, that's 61 that's only their family. So go ahead and follow them on YouTube. You could double the rate, mash that subscribe. This actually goes to my question. So Facebook is 914. Yeah. Which is interesting, right? Because I had the same deal not to these numbers, but like, you know, Facebook is almost non existent to our clientele at this point. And yet, but they're still owned by Mehta, you know. And so it's like, how does that work? And then LinkedIn, you're at 619. And then Pinterest, you're at 42,000, you get 4 million visits a month. And one thing if you're willing to share it, I was curious, because I suspect, as I've got to network with other builders, remodelers, bloggers, I mean, you, you kind of have everything on your website. And we'll talk a little bit about that, because your website is extremely well done. It's very clear, but it's robust. I mean, this, it's like, it has a lot
10:30
on it. There's a lot a lot of goods in there.
10:32
How many you know how many monthly visitors you would get your like your website?
10:36
I should know that off the top of my head. But I don't know that off the top of my head, I would have to go back. And
10:40
I was just curious, like, is your main goal like walk me through? What is your social strategy? Let's, let's talk about like, chunk this into a couple of different things. This is a big topic. So one has told me about how do you get to 200? I mean, that's a massive number. And then to what is the overall goal is the overall goal to get all these different social platforms to all come to your website? And then from your website, like the spokes of a wheel, then go to these different business ventures? Can you elaborate a little
11:06
bit on that? salutely. I mean, ultimately, when it comes down to it, there's only a few things that you actually own as a business owner, when you're talking about the social sphere, you own your website, and you own your email list. So our like, the intention behind what we do is to drive everybody to our website, and to drive everybody to our email list. Because all of a sudden, I mean, tick tock could go away tomorrow, there's already rumblings of all sorts of things. There's always rumblings about tick tock. But ultimately, we don't own our Instagram followers, we have no way to contact them if Instagram shuts down. In
11:37
fact, I think we had some local people here that I know that got hacked, got hacked, and they
11:41
know it's awful. It's awful. So our intention is just to drive as much possible to our website to retain as many people as possible, and to really keep them engaged from that standpoint. So I mean, as you can see, with our numbers, we heavily focus on Instagram and Pinterest. And we also focus on tick tock as well. Pinterest was a huge one for us, just because it does drive traffic to our website. So that's why we do focus on it so much.
12:05
I mean, 4 million a month.
12:07
It's pretty, it's pretty crazy. Pretty crazy. And I had heard because for
12:11
a long time, I was not a big pinner. And we're just now I mean, literally day one, we're trying to, you know, I'm just like, I have all these content, I might as well create for it. So I'm having someone I'm not doing it personally, I'm like, I don't have the time. So I'm just gonna freelance, here's my albums. Just go ahead and start, let's do 30 a month. And let's just see where this goes. Yeah, because I've heard that Pinterest essentially is just a giant search engine. It is,
12:30
it is it's a search engine. Now people go there, they use it just like Google. But the great thing for our industry is that usually what they're searching for is very relevant to us. So if we can get our portfolio in their search engine, that's amazing. That's very, very great for for everyone in the industry. So
12:46
one thing I want to dive into a little bit. So we have, I think sometimes, and I'm just getting into this, so if people listening already know all this, and certainly you guys but you know, man, you always hear this word, like I'm gonna monetize this, I'm gonna get, you know, I want to talk a little bit later about, you know, vendor collaborations, and how do you actually make, you know, you hear about these stories where someone, you know, essentially, they don't even build homes, or they don't really they just make money on having followers, like walk on a high level, like, how does this benefit, let's say, a vendor brand? Or are you like, How can this be an additional item? This is additional revenue stream for you guys, right? Because you can remodel and build new homes for those that don't know. And just to make it clear, roughly, how many new homes and remodels would you do in an average year? Roughly? We
13:26
probably do, I would say between 10 to 15 projects per year. Okay. And it
13:31
varies. Yeah. And we're the same way. Okay. So and then. So let's go back to the real question of, you know, these different revenue streams a little bit, walk us through a little bit about how, at what point can you monetize? You know, you have a big number. And I'd like to know how you kind of got there what your methodology is, but I'll let you guys kind of answered those. A couple questions there.
13:50
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, you asked a bunch of great questions. So for us, the intention is that we are both in the same not just industry, but we're both in the same company. So if the market softens, we want to make sure we can diversify our income streams as much as possible, just so if, if things do soften, you know, we're protected. So that's always been the intention in trying to drive these additional you no more not passive, but additional revenue streams. That being said, was that
14:16
a clear goal from the beginning? Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I mean, what year did you start?
14:20
We started in 2017. Um, but what I will say and, you know, full disclosure, we do like we have a very large account. We've had a lot of success in the last couple of years. But that being said, it's not like a get rich quick industry, we make majority, like probably, I would say, 95% of our income, through building and through remodel.
14:41
I mean, I'm glad you shared that because I have no perspective. Yeah. And I'm in the industry, and I have zero concept of like, what this is what it isn't. And you always hear about this, you know, like, Am I doing something wrong? Am I doing something right? And, you know, I don't think you know, for us if that if 95% of your income is building the home, it's like, well, you want soccer If I said that to then pursue these other things, right, I'm gonna float the 95% zactly. So okay,
15:05
exactly. And so that's just something to keep in perspective, because there have been people that have had just smashing success and it's their full time job. I have some friends that you know, they are full time influencers, their husbands work for them now, like they've just built these massive followings and massive companies, which is amazing, but that I don't think that's the norm in this sphere, I would say.
15:28
And for those out there, let's say just starting or I've heard this word before that sometimes the numbers can be a vanity metric, or I think, you know, I have a very small following and so like, I'm like, oh, yeah, that appeals to be I don't have a big number of big number be like, Oh, no, my big numbers awesome. So like, I know, you can kind of twist the story however you want. I know engagements really important. And in some ways, you know, is it true that over the last, let's say, two years it's much harder to grow your overall following than let's say like When did you see your biggest up swings? Are you still are you still finding that you're still getting a massive inertia upward and followers now even
16:01
right now we're getting we have been doing really well in the past year and a half, I would say and I largely attribute that to reels. We've really, really, like just, we dove headfirst into reels right when they were taking off. I kind of knew and you know, I'm I tried to stay up on like the technology trends and what's going on and we knew that Instagram was heavily pushing reels and they wanted to compete with Tik Tok and get, basically get rid of Tik Tok. And so we just put all of our energy into reels because it was getting pushed so heavily. We're also I'm very analytical. And so we look at everything each week. What's your Google Analytics? Or what are you looking at? There's insights within Instagram, we also Ethan calls me the spreadsheet queen. I have a spreadsheet for everything. But so we have spreadsheets. What was our growth last week? What was the top performer and we constantly look at what's working, what's not working, and then make decisions on what kind of content we share based off of
16:51
that was amazing. What in from a, like the last year, like, give me some perspective, like if you're at 200 now and you're a little less than
16:59
100,000, in June, just for perspective,
17:03
have you added 100,000 in six months?
17:06
And I think I think we've grown almost, I think we were probably at 15,000. In June of 2021. I think no? Well, it's been really crazy. It's been a really crazy growth.
17:20
Was there ever, like just some big moments that you're like, boom, you got like 10,000 or 20,000?
17:24
Yeah, we've had, we've had a few reels go viral. And that's brought in a ton of followers. Like we've had some go super viral, which makes a huge difference. Wow. And we've kind of tried to like figure out like, Okay, this does well, like let's do more of this, or what does it if our engagement gets low, you'll see our hidden pantry video come to life because that one always does. That is like we need a little boost. Let's throw in this, Andrew.
17:47
Yeah, that's that's a great question. How often do you you know, you know, as someone who manages our account, and you know, we're posting stuff and you know, how often you post stuff that's always original? How often do you repost something, how often do you post a new video or new or sorry, an older video, but with either new content or new music? Or walk me through that? Because sometimes there's a I think it's wrong. Like you just said, you're posting the same photo or video, but then you're Are you literally reposting the exact same thing? Are you changing the music and the trending and walk me through that?
18:19
Yeah, and I will say we don't usually repost things a lot, I think probably to our own fault. I think we could reuse content a lot more. I think we just internally have this. I mean, we're always doing new projects. We want to share new content. Yeah. But I do think that you absolutely can repurpose content, whether you change the title, whether you would just repost the same video, I wouldn't be reposting the same video once a week. I mean, we probably have reposted the same video that we posted last year, baby,
18:44
right. Yeah, but But yeah, we have some perspective, right? Because, you know, as you're like, looking back and saying, Oh, I wonder, you know, or like something did really well. Really fun. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, after a year goes by you're like, oh, it'd be fun to do like, hey, one year ago, we did this dumb thing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Wow. That's an incredible I mean, you guys were already so big already. Understand that you added 106 months now that want to walk me through one of your so on your website, which is beautiful. If you guys haven't seen it, it's just Alma homes.com. And so anyone listening definitely check it out. This thing is very classy. And you've got new construction, you've got remodel remote II design. But before we go there, I want to go to this education because you kind of just touched on it. So you have something on your Instagram right now is like an educational is it? Like one on one coaching is a blueprint, a roadmap, it says grow 100,000 in six months what you just did, I would have thought that that was something from like, a couple years ago they did that you just did that is incredible. And I'm like I wrote down here my notes tell me more. Like that's, you know, So walk me through. So someone clicks on that. It sends you to inquiry page, I assume and what is this inquiry page of
19:48
people? So we actually are in the process of launching our own online course. And so that the first online course that we're going to be launching is strictly just how to utilize an Instagram rails for your business. And we are just wrapping up the final touches on that. So I don't know when this podcast will go live, but maybe it'll be live by then.
20:06
Yeah, I mean, I don't know yet either this will probably be sometime in q2. It better be live Ethan is missing, we will send him on a milk carton. Ethan is a sacrificial goat. But evidently he's the one that's gonna go might as well be.
20:24
But yeah, so the coaching sphere isn't and that we do want to get into I just, I'm very process oriented. And I really love working with business owners. Obviously I love design, and I love construction and love our clients. But I've just really the last couple of years, we've really been evolving and I just have such a passion for I see so many like people just making simple mistakes. And like, if you just did this differently, you would save yourself so much time so much money, so much heartache, especially in the construction industry,
20:50
out of curiosity, just because I'm always excited Gree with you, how do you structure the payment on that? Is that like a an hourly thing? Is that like a set fee? How do you plan on rolling that education service out as a template? Do they interact with you,
21:01
that course will be an online course. So it's just a flat fee that people will pay for the coaching would be a flat fee as well. And then we just have a contract for how many sessions? Absolutely, that would be okay,
21:10
that makes a lot of sense. I've seen that more and more I mean, I see you know, in this will kind of transition so it will just stay on your you've got tick tock, you've got building better and design school. So these are all different education tracks that you're trying to not only monetize, but you're also you enjoy that I imagine. Yeah, like you enjoy the interaction with business owners. Like all of us. I mean, half the reason I'm doing this podcast is just, you know, I already know you guys anyway, yeah. But it's fun to meet people that you don't know. And just to talk about their business, and even people, you know, really well. I brought on one of my designers who I've known for years. And in our podcast, she was like, oh, yeah, I actually went to school for fashion. I'm like, no way really. And so it's interesting, other than, like, when you were dating, or if you have like one hour talk with like, with like, no drinks, like no food, like, we're just we're in like a three foot radius, you know, staring at each other. It was important to me that when we did the podcast, that I'll be in person, and I'll do some of them in zoom. But I really like you get a lot more nuance of feeling and depth of questions. I feel personally, if you can be in person. So that part was important to me. So anyway, education. That's really interesting. When When did this idea come about? Or how did you know you want to add this to your kind of repertoire? Because it's not like you don't have at other things that you already
22:20
were a little busy? It's, it's kind of just been in the back of my mind for a couple years. And I've just been trying to work behind the scenes, getting stuff going when when I have the free time.
22:29
Okay. And now do you have a team? So like, What size is your company? Now in terms of employees? There are six of us right now. And from a social media management marketing, I know you're kind of the figurehead of this, and plus we do a lot of the work. Are you able to outsource or not outsource? Are you able to insource is that even? Are you able to kind of collaborate and have some of your team members assist with that? How do you delegate that like how do you
22:53
we've we've have historically just had one person that manages that I've one thing I have found around a business is that if you have too many people involved in social media, Instagram is a very fun thing and very easily distractible thing. So we kind of just have one person that makes up their, their role. And
23:08
so it's basically you and that one person. Yeah, I see. You're listening to curious builder podcast. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Pella windows and doors. They've just been an amazing partner over my entire career. I've been building for 18 years and I've pretty much built every single home with Pella being installed in my homes and whether you're doing a small remodel, whether you're doing commercial or high end architecture, they have a product and a service that can fit any one of your needs. And on a personal level, AD and Peter over and management have just been incredible mentors to me, both as a person and as a business owner. It's been a very special relationship and their team, their general manager, their sales department and their service. I mean, you call them they're there. They backup what they say and they're the only window company that has a lifetime warranty on their windows. So when it's time to do a remodel or build a new home. Pella is the brand that we trust and we support. Please reach out to them at Pella northland.com or on their Instagram at Pella Northam give them a follow up, give them a like Be sure to follow what they're doing. And be sure to tell your Pella rep that you heard about them from the curious builder. This episode is brought to you by NRD landscaping. They're just a tremendous company. They are located off a one on one and highway seven and the western side of Minneapolis met Eric and his team about five, six years ago. And I've just been absolutely blown away at their design capabilities, their value, and they're just a trusted partner that we introduce to every client that we build our custom homes with. So if you have a small project a large project if you're an architect looking to bring in a landscaper, I highly recommend Eric Worre enter the landscaping you can check him out on his Instagram handle and our D landscape or online at ener D landscape.com. All of our episodes and video are available at curious builder podcast Calm. And now back to our guest
25:07
from like a posting standpoint, you hear this and this is getting into the weeds, but I'm sure a lot of people listening would like to know this. Like, you know, we just recently signed up for tailwinds, which I believe is a scheduler. We don't. I know on Instagram, we don't do that we do everything organically, but like LinkedIn. And now with the podcast and a few other things. It's just too much to manage. You guys use a Content Manager to publish everything. Is it true that like by pushing out of a scheduling platform that you'll get less less traction than if you actually post it straight off your phone? Is that true? Or is that just a lifestyle?
25:40
I think it depends on the platform. I've heard that's true with Instagram. We have used tailwind in the past. But now with you can't do rails through tailwind or you can't. Or actually I shouldn't say that. When we tried to do rails this was months ago, you couldn't do it. Maybe they've implemented it since so we don't use tailwind as much anymore, just from that standpoint. So a lot of Instagram we are pushing through with our phone. We did use tailwind heavily a couple of years ago, though, and I think tailwind was probably the best auto publisher that we use that we didn't see the drop in engagement in comparison to but I think what Instagram ultimately is looking for is they just want to make sure you're a real person, they want to see that you're engaged and they want to see that you that there is not just a bot.
26:20
And from this brings us back to Instagram, which is you know, by far your your heavyweight contender in terms of you know the metrics that people are you so you post once a day I know. And you I know this because I see on my feed you post in the evening around eight, nine o'clock. Usually. You guys are more of an evening poster. I tend to be a 7am poster. I'm posting some of the day. Yeah, otherwise it's not. Well, I was curious if there was a if there was a reason you do that? Because hey, metrics have told you that at night people are more on it or what why did you pick that time?
26:48
We've experienced that we've had better engagement at that time. But if you go on the Instagram app, there's an analytics tool where it will show you what's the best time to post. Yeah, and so we kind of just play around with it. And
27:01
yeah, I knew some secret sauce. I just tried to you know, get get everything out. So I always like dealt with and absolutely once you get home and the kids and everything like that. The last thing I want to do is be you know, ya know, putting on Instagram I hear you know, my kids, but
27:16
there's never a warning. It's like, hey, either we need you for two minutes. It's like okay, what am I doing? I don't know you're putting on a miniskirt. You got to do this. He's an ad lib. Ready?
27:25
Well, I mean, you're very well known for your one earpiece, your apple iPods, how many iPod or earpieces Have you gone through? How many do you go through in a year?
27:33
I should say. They usually last a year. Okay, they last a year,
27:37
I thought maybe you'd have multiple that you would cycle through in case you lose them or one does depowered
27:41
he wears one because then you can run the one and then charge the other. I do the same
27:45
thing when I run or something if I'm doing a long run. So
27:49
I have a backup pair just in case now do
27:51
you? I've always wondered this? No. Are you listening to like a podcast a story? Or is it just there? So you never have to pick up your phone?
27:59
Generally is just there?
27:59
It's just that yeah, he's on the phone all the time? No, it's just constant.
28:03
You know what it's like
28:04
I thought maybe was just on loop saying, you know, my wife loves me while my wife loves me.
28:12
Such as a turn on some music and really crank it just to get
28:17
the noise cancel. Yeah. Tell me a little bit. So also on your website, you've got remote II design. Walk me through what this is. I mean, so this is a remote location, and you want people to engage with you to essentially they're in Montana, and they want to do Interior Design. Are you going to do architectural design as well? Just
28:33
interior design right now. So we are design build firms. So we do all the architectural design in house, we just don't have the staff and the bandwidth to take on architectural design for clients that we're not building for. So we do we have a great interior designer. And so we will do design for people throughout the country for more interiors then.
28:51
And where's this at? I mean, is this a year old? Six months old? Two years old? How long? Have you been doing this?
28:57
I mean, we've been I've been doing it for a long time. It's definitely not again, I wouldn't say it's our bread and butter. But it's a chance to work on a lot of fun projects every once in a while. So
29:06
yeah, well, it's exciting. Yeah. The blog walked me through a blog, I hear all kinds of different stories about a blog, to me sounds like a ton of writing, I just found out I must be really naive. I did not realize you could hire a ghostwriter. And someone was saying like you mark you'd like you can go on the Fiverr all these different like platforms, you just find somebody and you know, even like this podcast, will have the transcript available because it's great for SEO. Yeah, but a lot of people if you you know if money's not an object, you can just take every single transcript, which is probably, you know, 100 pages long after an hour. You can send it to somebody, they will write a like dedicated blog post to this and it's like curated well done, like, Wow, that's amazing. Walk me through what the point of your blog is, how you use it, how you monetize it, and how do you feel like it's a benefit to to you as a company and a brand? Yeah, absolutely.
29:56
I mean, I think ultimately, like we were talking about earlier, we just want to control and how to get people to our website. And that's a great way to do that with new content coming out, we try to write blog posts that are pinnable. So things that will convert on Pinterest. So maybe it's like, five things to include in your kitchen or something like that. But ultimately, our main goal with everything is to get in front of our clients eyeballs. So the more we can get stuff out there that resonates with our clients, that's ultimately our biggest intention. And then obviously, growing the online presence to diversify income streams, right?
30:26
And are you guys reading that in house? I mean, do you put the content like walk me through? Like, how do you create a blog? And how do you like, what is the I understand that you want to be 100? Clients? Okay, that makes sense. But how are you curating these ideas and these thoughts? And I mean, I assume a lot of it's collaboration, you're looking at, like, there, I'm sure like anybody, you probably have fans of other people's work and other people's blogs. And so it, it's inspiring to you be like, Oh, I liked that idea. And you put your spin on? I mean, how do you how often do you post and be walked me through like the creation of someone want to create a blog, or maybe someone out there is a very successful builder, or entrepreneur, plumber, electrician, whatever it is that they do cabinet shop, and they want to create a blog? How would you go about doing that in a way that makes sense without just being like, boom, I've got Yeah, you know, blogs every day,
31:06
I would say the biggest thing is to have some consistency. So consistency doesn't have to be every single day, it could be we're going to do one a month. But I think you want to make sure you are consistent with whatever you're doing. So for us, we post once a week, we do it all internally, we have just a massive list where we write down ideas. But ultimately, in order for a blog to be worth it, it has to speak to your target audience. So when we create things, it's either going to be okay, can we put like things that are linkable? Whether that's an affiliate links, or things that will resonate with our social media audience, or our clients, or else we're going to write more educational blogs that then our clients will see and say, oh, like, they seem to know what they're talking about. Let's work with them. Because they're not dumb.
31:47
Yeah. Yeah, I know, the blog, just because you're creating so much content, you know, SEO, search engine optimization, for those that don't know what that is. You're living that's living on the website, you become up, go more searchable, which increases more traffic? I mean, this is kind of like a reinforcing thing that just continues to, is there a way to monetize a blog? Or how was how was a blog actually help you make money? I mean, how does someone monetize a blog? I mean,
32:12
there's some very successful bloggers out there. But there's different ways that you can monetize a blog, you can monetize through brand collaborations, maybe doing sponsored posts, where you're highlighting a product you can do through affiliate marketing is probably the biggest one, where you have products in there that you link, and then you make a small commission on when people purchase the product. And then also, some people do have advertising on their blog or Google AdSense. I don't think that's we don't have anything like that on ours, just strictly we want it to be more clean.
32:40
I've seen you do the affiliate link. Yeah. And like, you know, you've got your Amazon web page and like your shop, I mean, I was gonna talk a little bit about the shop, but they seem to kind of go hand in hand. And it's like the blog talks about things on the shop shop. And so it seems very harmonious and just that everything is kind of blending together.
32:53
Yeah. And that's just it with the blog, like, you just want to stack your content. So if we're talking about Instagram, can we elaborate and make that a blog post? Otherwise, you're just, it's a spider web of millions of
33:04
which makes sense. So you kind of have a mat? How far out are you planning out of curiosity?
33:08
We look at everything by quarter, and then we try to make sure we have everything planned for at least two weeks in advance. Wow, that's impressive. I just I'm very proactive, and I don't like not having stuff gone. It stresses me out. So that's more so for my sanity.
33:22
I mean, it makes sense that also knows, like, Hey, you could take a day off or a week off, and you'd be just fine. Right? Yep.
33:28
And with blogs and everything, you can actually schedule the posts. So once you write them, you just click the date you want it to publish. So then they're pretty hands off. Once it's all
33:36
you find that and I'm only speaking for myself. Like if I get inundated with a ton of, you know, you know, I'm gonna look to hit unsubscribe, right? How do you? How do you work? Do you ever have to worry about how much you know, essentially information, you're sending a client and you've got Instagram, you've got, you know, your 61 followers on YouTube are probably okay.
33:57
I don't know there's some real trolls out there.
34:00
But you know, the, the blog, how do you know how much is too much? Like, you know, I am on I'm, I don't need to hog. I'm on a couple other builders, newsletters and it's fine. And I keep on I don't but they I think they do it once a quarter and like it's powered rough. I'll scan and I'm like, Oh, that's interesting, you know, good for them, and whatever. But if it was once a week for me, yeah, granted, I'm not gonna build with them. But that's not really the point, I guess. How do you know how much is too much? And do you pull your audience? How do you how do you navigate that throttle?
34:26
I think for us, it's more so than just what are we capable of? And, like, we can't do something like once a week or we can't do it or you just think you're doing a newsletter standpoint. Oh, how would you how was a blog during the newsletter? The blog doesn't necessarily go to their email address. So the people have to seek out the blog. Okay. So you can subscribe to blogs from the standpoint where if you want them to be emailed, but I would say that's probably not as normal now as it was 10 years.
34:52
Okay, that I'm glad you differentiated that because I definitely was assuming that the blog was something that was being
34:58
No, it just lives. It just lives. I have I mean, there is there is an option where you can have people subscribed via email. But I think usually what we'll do is I'm will include our blog posts in our monthly newsletter just so people can reference that we'll share our blog posts on social media is traditionally what we do.
35:16
Interesting. Have you done out of curiosity? From like a speaking engagements? Have you spoke at conferences or spoke on what we're talking about now?
35:25
I haven't maybe that's in our future. We'll
35:27
see. All right, well, check them out at all the homes.com. If you want to have Kristen and Ethan, come on your podcast on here. You'd be your speakers. So I'll, as your manager, I'll just take a small commission, you guys have already given me a roadmap of things I didn't know about before. I didn't even know there's a difference between a newsletter and a blog. So thank you for clearing. Definitely the Dark Ages. I'm still using a phone book.
35:52
No phone books with a W two.
35:55
I know, right? I know. Mark, technically, right, William, we've always been used to being at the end of the class. We're good at just goofing off till the teacher gets to us. So what is one of the questions that I had? Oh, you answered this question already. One of the my questions that I wrote down was, you know, your percent of revenue, but you already answered it. 95%? Five? I think that is, yeah, it's interesting, I would like to ask, I'm gonna ask that question more often, when people come on and have a large social presence to ask them what kind of their breakdown is well, and
36:23
what's been super interesting, because like I said, I am very analytical is we've been really watching how much we're making, and what's converting. And what I've found is that, I think, because a lot of what we've been sharing is relevant to what our clients are looking for. So it's more home design products, furniture, light fixtures, those aren't instant impulse buys. Whereas like people that are fashion bloggers, a $20 Sweater people like click done, click Done. Whereas if you're looking at a light fixture, you're gonna hum and haw a little bit. And then they may buy that, but they may not use your affiliate link.
36:53
I've seen so along that line, I've seen people before, like, hey, like, let's say you're an interior designer, we're actually exploring this, I don't know where it's gonna go. Probably whatever you told me to do after this is, so let's say you design a home. So we built this beautiful home, people love it, it's great. We know that we're never going to build that exact same house. Like it's just not going to happen. The client, the person, but you know, you get all these requests for, you know, pink colors of pink colors, in particular, pink colors, you know, tie all this other stuff. And I've seen it done before. And I'm wondering how to monetize that and what the right amount is. So what have you gotten an entire design list? And let's just call it the 100 things that you did on that you spec them out? I mean, I guess if you did go digital go affiliate links. That'd be like a double whammy. Yeah. But essentially put it on your website and be like, if you like the specs, you can purchase them for 50 bucks. 100 bucks, not not so low that it's free. Yeah, but not so high that everyone thinks that you're just you know that it's terrible. Yeah. Do people do that? And is there any value to doing that? Because sometimes it gets exhausting answering all these emails, like, what pink color is this? And, you know, it's white dove and everything. People just wiped up? Yeah, exactly. 1000 different whites white. Anyway, how do you do?
38:01
We've tried? And we would say it hasn't been? It's been fine. It does monetize a little bit. But it also passes a lot of people off sometimes. So
38:10
maybe we'll get a little feisty, you'll get feisty that they have to pay for it. Or the clients get feisty that
38:13
no, it's been we've been we've been very cognizant of our clients. And what we've done is we've said, we're gonna pick like six or seven sources from this house that we know we're gonna get asked questions for. So people can't just go for 20 bucks and copy our clients home. We want to be very respectful of them, because ultimately, they're our priority. But we'll do things like we'll sell your this paint color for five bucks, and some people will buy it. Some people will send scathing messages. This is
38:38
amazing. It'd be worth it just on the wall of shame. Yeah, like who's got the best mean? Yeah. Very entertaining. Yeah. Be like, well, we'll have we'll run this by our lawyer. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually pretty funny. So do you do it now? Or do you get rid of it? We
38:52
do do it right now. But we have been just debating and you know, is there something else? Because it's tricky, because you want to provide value to your Instagram followers or people that you know, come and follow you for inspiration. On the flip side, you want to respect your clients and not be like, well, here's every source that we custom designed for you that you paid us a lot of money to do. So it's a balancing act.
39:11
You do. Here's a hybrid of that, you could say, deliver us five followers within two days. Yeah, we'll give it to you for free. Yeah. $5. Give him an either or Yeah. And what? So is that what I was gonna ask you about your shop? So you have digital downloads, like for $5 each? What's the strategy or is that what you're talking about? That Exactly. It was okay. Because I didn't I didn't click on it. But it was so I thought it was an image of a great room. So that's just that was a color on that but that's what I would have gotten it was just the colors nothing. Interesting.
39:42
Yes. And that it honestly started because on our house, we were getting inundated with questions.
39:47
And we were homeless on the artisan tour. And I remember going through it and loving it. It kind of had a multi generational feel. Was that right? Did I remember that? Right that there you had some family members that remember there was like a guest quarters upstairs or like another kitchen and I felt like there was like three kitchens. In your house, a lot of cooking going on, we like to cook or someone's like extremely allergic to cooking, like their own space even
40:07
stinks. Um, ya know, so it actually came from our house because we were getting inundated with questions. And I was on an affiliate link after affiliate link after affiliate link. I'm like, all these people are telling me they bought this tile, and they put it in their house, and I love it. And we made like, $17 like, this is not worth anyone's time to respond to these comments for how much work it's taking. So we're like, Well, what if we try to charge for it? And
40:32
you guys have out of curiosity along that line? Do you guys have a presence on house? And do you find that that houses actually useful or not useful?
40:39
We used to, we kind of pulled back because they have some weird, legal, legal things when they own your photos. And all they do and start trying to
40:49
have a lawyer that I'm married to not ask, I'm not proposing to you, but I'm gonna have to take your legal advice on this.
40:55
And they start to like sell products that are in your photos. So I didn't love that. Wow, this is a pull back a little bit on how
41:00
have you taken it off for you just left it up? We just added Yeah,
41:03
we left stuff up there. But we haven't added anything. And we've and we've seen I think how was was big. Seven years ago. It was huge. And I think Instagrams completely taken over what house was and Pinterest, too. So
41:15
what's the problem with Instagram, I guess you can create books in the same deal. It's not as easy how's it was, I still use house like my cabinet guy, you know, hey, let's create a little platform. And let's take those photos and send it to a cabinet shop for ideas. And now obviously, as you're working with higher and higher end, you know, interior design groups, they're really managing all that photo man, right? Anyway. So that's kind of it was kind of a we kind of a foot personally, like in a foot and two worlds. And so I feel like the ones where the designers are very involved in helping with that, in some ways, houses kind of not
41:46
anymore. Yeah, absolutely. So
41:47
we're going back again, to some terminology. So on your website, you have to like it to know it. Now. I have a cousin. She's a cousin law. She's very successful. She's gonna like I always see like it to know it. I was like, I've never really never clicked on it cuz I was never gonna buy Yeah, her leather boots. Yeah. What is like it to know it? And what is that all about? How is that different than affiliate links and all these other things that
42:09
it is affiliate links, it's just one program. It's called reward style. And it's
42:13
akin to like, Amazon, it's its own? Okay. It's our platform. Yep. Understood.
42:19
And so that's, I would say that in Amazon, our two most lucrative affiliate marketing platforms, if you will, so we kind of just focus on those two,
42:28
you know, for someone out there that wants to experiment with this, because I know a lot of people are really big into this. And, you know, people I've been told many times, you have all this content, you should do this. And I just, I just know, it takes a ton of time. Is this. I mean, you obviously do it, do you feel like the time investment is worth it? I mean, you the person that manages social account is this, that's her full time job is just managing all the affiliate links, and all the other things, of course, but I mean, it's a it's it's not like it's a minor amount of time to do all that. Yeah, right.
42:55
Yep. Interesting. Absolutely. I will say, too, I mean, you asked previously, I think one of the most beneficial or the most promising lucrative, if you will, other revenue streams can be brand collaborations. But that's
43:09
literally my next where to go with that one.
43:13
But I think I mean, we, we try to be very strategic with the with the collaborations that we do take on because we don't want it to be like, Oh, hey, like, let's leave some Lysol. Like, we want it to be relevant to what our followers follow us for. But I think for us in particular, our followers are predominantly people that are looking to build people that are building people that are remodeling, other builders, other interior designers, so for some vendors, or suppliers that are in the construction industry that can be very valuable to have that targeted have an audience. So we kind of like to collaborate with people that we naturally use anyways. So it's just a pretty organic fit. And then it works out well for everybody.
43:50
Now, how have you, how do you use vendor collaboration within your platform? Like how are they? Is it a sponsorship? Is it a season? Is it a product, like how and I get how the relationship side is not? People, sometimes, you know, you're not just gonna call up whatever good store and say, hey, I want to I want $10,000 Like, that doesn't work. So like, you have to have a relationship. You have to walk me through like that, cultivating that relationship? And like for you specifically, how, like, what are some brands that you've had successful relationships? And how does that benefit both you because it doesn't a long term relationship only works? If it goes both ways? Yeah,
44:23
absolutely. I mean, one in particular, we've had a lot of success with what has been urban flora. We use them a lot for our, our hardwood flooring. And so we've done like sponsored posts with them. We use we use them in a lot of our projects. And so for them, were sourcing their project first and foremost. So we have the purchasing power, but then we also have the marketing side of things too. So we can share that with our followers. If they're looking for four floors, then
44:49
do you ever get where people you know, sometimes, like we have so actually one of the sponsors of the podcast, I'll plant hardwood floors. I mean, they've been a huge partner of ours. They're amazing. They saw the value in what we're creating with the podcast they wanted Be a part of it. Yeah. And but you know, I've worked with him for over a decade, and that relationship has always been there. And there's a lot of mutual respect between, you know, both of us, how would you just derailed my own thought there? How do you explain how much I love them and how much they love me and I got lost in the love.
45:18
I will say what's interesting is, especially in our industry, I think our industry is kind of behind the times from I don't know, social media marketing standpoint, completely. And so it's really trying to foster the relationship, obviously, from the construction side. But then you also have to approach it from the marketing side. And a lot of times we found those sides don't talk to each other. So it gets a little frustrating.
45:40
That was the question, I lost my train of thought I wanted to ask, because what do you do with a trade partner? That doesn't get it? Yeah. And by doesn't get it as like, you know, they get the majority of our work. And we are out there as the faces of our companies trying to bring these in. And I'm not asking them to do something that maybe someone else isn't doing. But they don't see either the value in it, or they say, well, like, this is your business? Why am I helping you? How do you navigate that?
46:05
I mean, we just kind of let it be that and we don't pursue it, there's honestly, I would say majority of companies still kind of have that mindset, I think there are some that are very, very progressive and do a great job. And they generally tend to be more of like the manufacturers, more of the suppliers, that probably have much larger marketing budgets and are more familiar with this space. But if they're not interested, we usually just kind of
46:26
let it go. I've heard that as friction sometimes, you know, for doing different things before social media was a big deal, you know, whether it was, you know, doing some events or client sponsored ideas, or, you know, you know, just gathering a bunch of people to try to promote something. Yeah. You know, until you're like, Well, you know, I'm fronting all this, but everyone benefits, how can we collectively as a group, attack this together. And I feel like you try to tell the story. And sometimes it goes on, like, it's a money grab, which is not what it is. It's an investment in the future of this collective nucleolus of people that are working together.
46:58
And I think for events like that, like, I think good trade partners understand that they understand that they make money because you make money. And I don't think a lot of them see it as a money grab. But ultimately, to like, it will sway our purchasing decisions. If there's, you know, one brand that wants to collaborate on social media, and another brand that has no interest well, okay, we might do that, because that has dual benefit. Like they're both great products. So if there's additional benefits,
47:25
that's funny, you said that I have a situation where I just have a long term relationship, and they just don't want to be a part of it. And, and I'm super loyal to they do great work. But it's, you know, as much as I try not to let it affect my decision, it does. Because I just feel like, you know, it just feels like that relationship isn't, it's not completely whole anymore. And then you have someone else that comes in that has no relationship, like I would love to partner with you. And you're like, Oh, my word, I have no history with this person. They do a great product. And they're willing to do all this without me even asking, yeah, in fact, they're reaching out to me and say, Hey, if you ever want to collaborate on something, let's do it. You're like, that's so open minded. And so collaborative. Like, let's, let's do this. And so, yeah, anyway, trying to understand like, yeah, how to balance that? Because I'm very loyal to my people. And I feel like that's paid huge dividends for myself. Absolutely. Because I mean, we all know, we can't, I mean, I can't build the home. I'm not quite as talented as Ethan as lawyer framer. I mean, if you want to hire out your framing services, by the book for tell us a little bit in our closing minutes here. So obviously, your husband and wife team and I love to ask this on people that have had on the shows, like, how do you navigate? You know, you guys have a family? You know, how do you navigate business in and out of your personal time?
48:41
strict boundaries? Do you strict boundaries? Like I would say, the first couple years were probably just more challenging with each of us, because we met at work. So we knew that we worked together well, long before it ever became a relationship. And I think that's kind of the founding, how we can work together. I think that plays a huge role in it. But I mean, yeah, like, we've had to put very strict boundaries in place we have, we don't work on weekends, we don't work on evenings. And so and like, even further than that, we try not to talk about work, which can be can be challenging, because sometimes I come home, and I'm like, normal people come home, they're like, how was your day? Like, we don't have that because you were there for my entire day. Get a break from you for a little while?
49:23
Well, it's funny, because you're the first couple that's come on, I think I've interviewed four or five couples now, where they that it's kind of like all the time, and they didn't feel like they manage, I can just say for myself, and I think every person is you know, different. And I think it's part of your fabric of your life. We love what we do. And so like your family knows about it. But you know, my wife is not in the industry. And so I do like to talk to her about it sometimes, right? But that's more cathartic. Really, for me, it's like, it's kind of your unwinding. Exactly. And but you know, for myself, I mean, I tried to be very regimented now lately, because we've hired on a new person and we had to let somebody go. I feel like I'm probably working harder now than I ever have in my career. Also be cuz I've added 17 more balls to juggle at the same time on the podcast and new brand, all this other stuff and you know, getting excited about it. That being said, I feel like the time management or the time blocking for me has been extremely important. Yeah. You know, just for myself, like, you know, I'm home at five, we have dinner at 530. And I try not I told my clients up front, though to like, you're never gonna see an email from me, you know, after five o'clock, and you won't see it on the weekend. Now, if there's an emergency. And I say that upfront, because, you know, some people at different age groups or a different have different level of expectations of service. And that's okay. I just might not be your builder, because it took me a long time. I had a builder once who gave me some advice. And it was very helpful. And he had a client that every Saturday at one o'clock he met for like two years. And it was a massive job, right? I don't know if the dollar amount, let's just say it's 510 really doesn't matter. And but he felt that was a game changer for him to do. And he said, I never do that again. Now, we are having lunch, he told me the story. And it was just that I was just starting to have young kids at the time. And I remember like really loving that story. Because in the beginning you hustled like you take every every one and the early the career, it's like you take everything you take jobs that you shouldn't take. And it's a common story with entrepreneurs, like how do you know what to take and not to take? And sometimes saying no, is better for not only you, but it's also better for the client. Exactly. And anyway, I think for myself, as I've kind of taken ownership of that message, not only from a healthier space, I can be more energized when I go to work. Number one, it actually benefits the client. But I think to most people understand, like, they respect that I think you just need to have a conversation about it. Yeah. So with that in mind, do you also have a conversation with your clients about that kind of on the front end?
51:32
Yeah, we do. It's in our contract or senior contracts in our contracts that these are business hours, we will not respond unless it's an emergency. But even with emergencies, well, I guess more so from a warranty standpoint, but we have emergency numbers for more for, like a Google Voice type of thing. Or like what is it? Like our plumber or electrician? Like they all have 24 service? Yeah, um, and obviously, in case of emergency, we obviously will take it but otherwise we say, you know, we'll respond to the next business day. We also go as far as saying we want all the communication generally speaking in
52:01
email, I know that everyone I know struggles with, you know, I'm always finding like, Texas, I'm running late, or Haley picking up a sandwich or whatever, but like these long emails about change orders, and I'm unhappy about it like, yeah, no,
52:14
yeah, I know. And we just say like, we're not trying to be difficult. There's so many components, there's so many moving pieces in construction that if you text me this at 10, o'clock at night, gonna get it. It might not make it like if you email it to me 100% It will get implemented. Yeah. So
52:30
and if they don't respect our you know, that you have a personal life, then we have the right. No, absolutely not. I think
52:37
that happens, you guys are much further along in your maturity than I am or was only been recently that I understand that telling that story, actually is not only a great sales tool, but it also is just a better life. Yeah. And I feel like you know, yeah, I don't know how else to say it. Yeah, time block. There's only so much time. Exactly. And we all struggle with it. I'm certainly not perfect. There's definitely like I said, right now I'm definitely struggling with it, because I've got too many balls in the air. And so hopefully you can try to find that equilibrium where it works. Well, we're out of time. It was a joy to have you guys. Where can our listeners find you?
53:11
You can find us at ALMA holmes.com or on Instagram or Tiktok at ALMA Holmes.
53:16
Very good. Well, thanks again. Yeah, have a wonderful holiday. I guess we'll cut that out because it's in the spring. So thanks for coming on. Have a wonderful, great Flag Day. leg day may it be tremendous. raise that flag. Independence thank you for joining us today on the curious builder podcast. I'm your host Mark Williams signing off. Check out all our show notes and other videos on our website at curious builder podcast.com. If you enjoyed what you listen to please leave us a five star rating and share it with your friends.
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