Episode 90 - Inside the Big Wins: Cinda Pfeil on Empathy, Resilience, & the Personal Work That Changed Everything
Episode #90 | Inside the Big Wins | Empathy, Resilience, & the Personal Work That Changed Everything
Cinda Pfeil doesn't separate her personal story from her professional one — and honestly, that might be exactly why her business works. In this Inside the Big Wins conversation, she and Mark dig into client relationships that span decades and multiple homes, a business partnership that taught her more than she expected, and how a childhood defined by resilience became the foundation for a career built on empathy. It's the kind of episode that makes you want to call your mentor, hug your best friend, and maybe rethink what a "win" actually looks like.
About The Curious Builder
The host of the Curious Builder Posdast is Mark D. Williams, the founder of Mark D. Williams Custom Homes Inc. They are an award-winning Twin Cities-based home builder, creating quality custom homes and remodels — one-of-a-kind dream homes of all styles and scopes. Whether you’re looking to reimagine your current space or start fresh with a new construction, we build homes that reflect how you live your everyday life.
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Cinda Pfeil 00:03
We realized our strengths and our weaknesses, and we always were checking in on that. Did the strength finder test, right? We did all the things we're supposed to do to kind of make sure this is going to work. And we we quarterly check in. Okay? Where are we at? Who's got the this role, that role, and then how to balance out? Are we 5050 are we 4951 Welcome
Mark D. Williams 00:28
to curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams. Today I'm joined with Cindi file. She was on last week for a losers or winners story. If you haven't listened to it, it's great. She's the owner of style infused living and retro camp goods. Today we are going to talk about inside the big wins. We've already talked about some of the big losses that informed our growth and things like that. But all right, Cinda, what have you got for what are some big wins in your career? What are some things like looking back, you're like, yes, you know this one came back, or I got this, or this was a real level up. Or,
Cinda Pfeil 00:58
yeah, yeah, I feel like I've been so fortunate with running the business like I've said in the past. I'm an employee for style infused living. I just happen to be here. It just runs itself. I don't do the marketing. I just kind of it just does its thing. What
Mark D. Williams 01:15
do you mean by that? Like word of mouth, or
Cinda Pfeil 01:17
it's all When word of mouth from day one, I've played with marketing. I do things on Instagram. It's amazing, but it is exhausting, and it's a full time job, so I've pulled back with a little regret, I'll say, but I'll get back in there and stuff. I'm rebuilding the website as we speak, and it's going to be amazing. It's going to be so much fun. Going back to the question, I would say, just having getting in. So when I kind of started, I was interior design, did I know where I wanted to go with that path and how big it wanted to be? Did I want to just do furniture or whatever and stuff? So when I got that first job where it was new construction or a full renovation. One of my favorites that they're my I always say my clients are like friend family. They're, you know, people say friends like family. My clients are like family. And that's the best part of my job. Seriously, the best part of my job. I have this one family in Edina that they're just the most amazing humans, and they have just a beautiful, beautiful house. They've had it for many, many years, and they pretty much guided the whole main floor. We did the upstairs. We did the downstairs. There's a little area that we did not do, but this house is stunning, old, old house, and we had the most amazing carpenter work on the project that they brought on. So Ian came in after they worked with this contractor and builder, and then that person had just such a good carpenter, and it's just so much fun. So it was just great to be able to get into that project. And that was probably, oh gosh, when did we start? I mean, I started with them, I would say maybe 17 years ago. Have to look back. But we've been slowly working in the project, and we've worked on different houses together too, which is really fun. I've had a lot of repeat clients. I've had clients where I've done six houses.
Mark D. Williams 03:15
Oh, wow,
Cinda Pfeil 03:16
yeah. I mean, they happen to be moving around the country, they moved or they've had different places that they've
Mark D. Williams 03:20
lived in. That's one of the things I admire about architects and your case interior design, where I feel like builders are usually more geographically locked. There's very few builders that can build all across with their clients. And so it's like, you hear of interior designers here in Minnesota that like, oh, you know, I'm going to Arizona, or I'm going to Florida, or, you know, wherever they might go. I like that when you because one thing that I don't like about the building model is we spend the opportunity cost to acquire a client through marketing and through all the time. And it's usually a one off, like you build a, you know, a high end custom home. You know, maybe they build one or two in their lifetime, but they're span decades apart, unless they're in other states. But then again, they're likely not. You're the builder. You're not, you're not doing it. And so I've always admired that about because the clients are kind of the highlight. You know,
Cinda Pfeil 04:10
yeah, the clients are the highlight, absolutely. I mean, that's why I'm still running style on face, living honestly, is because they've made it so easy and just made it fulfilling honestly. But yeah, I think that is really cool. I've never thought of it that way. Interior Designers, we can kind of get up and go or just work remotely and then do a couple trips back and forth. We don't have to bring our, all of our subs with us, right? We don't. You're not bringing the tradesmen. That's probably why you guys, the builders, have to kind of stay in their region, stay in their area, because you've got all that that you have to be on site on a daily. What
Mark D. Williams 04:41
about mentors have you had? Is there any standout mentors, or people in your life that really gave you some amazing either leadership or just advice?
Cinda Pfeil 04:52
Oh, gosh, I love that. I was part of BWC and those women are. That's just that Jesse or not? Jesse, Katie. And
Mark D. Williams 05:00
PwC stand
Cinda Pfeil 05:02
for Business Women's circle. Yeah, yeah. I'm not a part of it right now, but I've met so many amazing ladies. It's women owned businesses or women led businesses. So it's all kind of this area where they'd meet monthly and just talk about the business, the highs and lows, things they need to work on, whatnot. Lots of mentors in there, kind of helping me stay excited and motivated and getting that creative juices out, right? You can kind of tap into different parts of the business, so you're like, oh my gosh, I should do this, and I should do that. Do I need to stay in my lane some days? Oh yeah, I need to stay in my lane and stuff. So I would say that my parents, I would say, you know, I was adopted when I was five, and walking into that and living with some people that just shaped who I am on the design sense. They had just this cool, fun design esthetic on their own. And they I'd wake up in the middle of the night, they wake up and see me that I was working on my bedroom and re changing and moving my furniture around. I feel like that was inspired by them,
Mark D. Williams 06:00
yeah,
Cinda Pfeil 06:01
I think so, yeah, yeah. So they kind of let me see that I can do this and I'm going to be good at it or do my thing. So that was kind of fun. Yeah, I guess that's probably it for now. But I've loved just working with different builders and architects and people that are always kind of inspiring me. I don't know. Yeah, it's kind of more of a general.
Mark D. Williams 06:22
I heard something sweet the other day that I really enjoyed. And we don't know the value. How do you phrase this in a business sense, you don't know the value of a decision till months, years, decades down the road. And the example that was given was, you know, if you gave $500 to a struggling painter and they turned into Pablo Picasso, you know, you just, you not only changed the world for the better, but you also made, you know, millions of dollars on that investment, if you will. Right now, that's an extreme example. Of course, are there any things that you sort of invested in at the time? Like, I think we invest in a lot of things. You know, it could be our health, it could be wellness. It could be literally a house. It could be a bit, I mean, there's a lot
Mark D. Williams 07:06
of
Mark D. Williams 07:06
the investment thing is a little bit like wellness. You go where you want to go with this question. But like looking back now, you're like, wow, that paid amazing dividends that I could never have seen at the time I invested in. It could be like, you know, could be reading books on a regular basis, or the BW say that's what prompted. It was just like, you know, being inspired by other people. Never asked a question quite like this. I'm kind of
Cinda Pfeil 07:31
curious. Got you what I touch on is starting a business with a dear friend, Megan doll. We started, this was before covid, I want to say 2019 or 2017 excuse me, and we were walking Lebanon hills, doing a hike in a winter. It's February, and she's like, you know, I've got this idea. I really want to do stock photography, and I want to know if you might want to do this with me. And so we settled on it. We kind of talked a little bit more about it back and forth, and all of a sudden, we just started. A few months later, we started this business, fizzo, and it was stock photography, photography for brands. And she's a amazing photographer. She's got this studio, Ian in the North Loop. She's been doing her business also since 1999 we both started our business in tandem. We did not know each other at the time. We both went to the U of M we met, I think, in her late 20s and stuff, but she's become one of my best friends. So she approached that she's never had a business partner. I've never had a business partner. We learned a lot. We learned a lot about how that's going to work, because we're both two strong women, running our own business on our own and giving it a go, you know, just trying to make sense of how this is going to work, and
Mark D. Williams 08:43
what was your
Cinda Pfeil 08:44
role? Yeah, so my role so obviously, she was the photographer. My role was coming up with the concepts. What are we going to shoot? What are the stock elements we're going to shoot, getting all the product, bringing it all in, setting it all up, coming up with the vignettes, also working with, like, the alignment of where we're sitting and where we're going to take the pictures. You know, Megan has this amazing eye on, kind of the portrait photography side of it, and I might be kind of pushing her a little bit to, like, say, Hey, how about this angle? Or do this, you know. So I think we both learned a little bit about that, and we pushed each other in that way. We did step back. We worked it for four years to build this portfolio, and that took so much time just to build a portfolio before we could actually go live. And then we both said, Okay, I think we need to kind of maybe try something different. And we both stepped away from it, which was good the time. Is
Mark D. Williams 09:37
it something that could just stay like once you've created it? Could it not be like a website? We
Cinda Pfeil 09:41
talked about it. Yeah, we did talk about it. She's like, well, maybe I could take it on and do my thing. I could, you could, I could buy you out. And, you know, did we have, we had invested some money into it. We didn't have the stock photography clients per se yet, because we were still just growing it. We had a lot of brand clients, though. So while we were doing the stock photography. Side, we were doing the brand client side, and that was so much fun, because then we had the human connection, and we had people, lots of local brands, that were doing their thing, so we were building that up, and she has since then taken that on, and does a lot of branding, and she's doing it beautifully. What I learned from that is to be able to kind of push myself in a different element of design, also the marketing side of things. She's the best marketer. She's so good at what she does when she's marketing. She's the one building my website as we speak. She just she knows how to do that, and she's really on the cusp of how to what's the latest and greatest thing, right? How To Market and keep your business kind of going in a great trajectory. So I learned a lot from that. Just give her kudos for that. And takeaway would be just being able to, like, take that and just know, okay, this is a strength. This is something I can do. I was good at the vignettes inside, because obviously the InterDesign sense for it. So that was really fun to be able to do that. And we've actually both been able to use those photos in certain sense too. You know, there'll be some of them actually kind of plugged into my website. She's got some in her website. But, you know, I think lurking learning as having a business partner, that was definitely the tug and the pull, right? That's maybe the main reason why we're not doing it together, we realized we're friends, and we're still the most we're still best friends and stuff, but we, you know, it was hard, it was hard, to kind of find that and create balance with roles.
Mark D. Williams 11:38
This episode is brought to you by Pella, windows and doors. I've used Pella for 21 years as the exclusive window company on every one of my builds. When people ask me who I trust for windows and doors, it's Pella every time. Their craftsmanship, their innovation, the top tier service, make them a no brainer for any custom home builder or designer who demand the best, whether you're designing something bold or building something with timeless elegance, Pella has you covered. They're also the only window company that has a lifetime warranty on all of their windows. I've gotten to know all their people at Pella corporate, as well as locally. Here at Pella Northland, I'm proud to call them our partners and our friends. Visit pella.com to learn more and connect with your local reps today. Also for more information, you can listen to episode one, where I interview their founders, as well as episode 109 where we talk about the innovation at Pella. Do you feel like you're similar or different as people?
Cinda Pfeil 12:32
Oh, wow, that's a great question. Similar in some ways, different than others.
Mark D. Williams 12:37
Where I was going with this is I feel like I was always told as a kid, my dad often told me that partnerships were very difficult and in some ways, but those comments kind of steered me away from ever having one. Now, as I'm old, now I'm mature, relatively speaking, I'm a nine year old. I was seven and but, you know, I find now collaboration and business partners like the best thing ever, because I love, I'm such a people person. I love having other people. That being said, I'm a handful. Like, I'm a, you know, for sure, you know, a driver and all that kind of stuff. But like, when you're with other a drivers, it's really fun. Like, the best of partnerships are amazing. I can't imagine when they get to the point where things are difficult and you start, you know, either, you know, fracturing, that would be very, very difficult. Yeah, for sure. The reason I ask it is, like, if you know, you have a glaring weakness, like a ying and a yang, it seems like that partnership would be a lot easier, because you're like, Well, I know I'm not good at that. And so, like, having clearly defined roles, like, hey, so and so is really good at, you know, the visionary seat and marketing. And this person is really good at implement. I mean, that's a classic,
Cinda Pfeil 13:45
you know, that's we did. Yeah, we did kind of pull that. We realized our strengths and our weaknesses, and we always were checking in on that. Did the strength finder test, right? We did all the things we're supposed to do to kind of make sure this is going to work. And we, we quarterly check in. Okay, where are we at? Who's got the this role, that role, and then how to balance out, are we 5050 are we 4951 we did meet with, actually, a client, initially designed client on me, of mine that has run businesses for many years. And he's just, he's a mentor of mine, I would say. And we both went to his house, and we met with him, and we kind of talked about it, and he would say, it's going to be hard, you know? And he wasn't alone. There were other people said it's not going to work, right? Because we are just so close and friends. It's tricky. It is going to be tricky. You're going to have to work really hard at it. I was married at the time. She was not married. She is cute. She jokes, she's like, you were like, a marriage. And she say that she's like, I think I like, we lasted quite a long time, and it was good. But, you know, I'm I'm so thankful I can look back and she's just still, my dearest friend did the business work. We pulled away. We didn't do it right? But so many lessons learned, and so many beautiful moments, you know, and we still have the photos, so there might, there's. Thing out there, and they're just this huge deck of photos so and I feel like, honestly, we look back at it now, AI's take taking over so much of that that I don't even know how long it would have survived on its own with photography or stock photography specifically.
Mark D. Williams 15:13
Yeah,
Cinda Pfeil 15:13
yeah,
Mark D. Williams 15:13
interesting.
Cinda Pfeil 15:14
Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 15:14
yeah. I just think when you listen to someone else's story, of course, it's hard not to reflect on your own and start thinking about, like, all the different things. And I find it's almost easier. I'm a very positive person at baseline, but I find that it's like, I think of like scars, like I have scars on my hands, or my kids resting that day, like, what's a scar from? And like, I think it's scar like, if you if the absence of scars, your skin, let's say, doesn't have scars. So when you see a scar, it seems to stand out more prominently. Where I'm going with this is, like, it's easier for me to think about, I don't even like the word failures, setbacks, things I've learned. Like, if you were to ask me, like, I've learned so much more, it's actually, this is the first episode we've done. We're inside the winds, and I find that it's way easier for me to think about things that I've overcome and the joy that I've gotten from that than it is to just like, flat out, like, Hey, here's some chocolate cake. You won the I can't. I honestly can't. If someone asked me this question, I'd be a little stumped. I'm like, No, I have, I'm sure I have lots of them, but they're just not the ones that are. I didn't work hard for it. I didn't really overcome something. And like, those stories are, like, foundational pieces of my life, my business,
Cinda Pfeil 16:20
absolutely
Mark D. Williams 16:21
and so yes,
Cinda Pfeil 16:22
I could definitely. I could speak on that subject all day long, honestly, and you said setbacks. It could be setbacks. It could be mistakes you've made. It could be just things you didn't have control over. I've had multiple miscarriages, for example. Did that define me? Did that? What do they learn from that? So much empathy, so much appreciation for healthcare, certain things like that. You just kind of learn those things are what shape you into this human that hopefully you're making some change for the better. You're sharing your story. That's why I'm always such an open book. I share the story, and it's touching somebody else. You know, I've gotten phone calls for that specific situation. I've gotten phone calls from my OBGYN, saying, there's a lady that's kind of going through what you went through. Would you ever be willing to speak to her? So that was one example of that setbacks with viso. Maybe that would be a something we talked about that was the for stock photography business name, even just the name viz, that took forever for us to just kind of come with it. We had a poll. We had all these people checking, and we're like, it has to, has to have no name to anything else, kind of like Nike, or can't just be a word like style infused living is, we know these words, but then we put them together, but it just needs to be able to be trademarked, right? So all these things, all this care and time and stuff put into things, but when they don't work, that's just where you got to be open to just finding What the Why did it go that way? What am I going to learn from this? What can I take from this? What can I share and hold on in a pocket for a later day to share with somebody else I like that
Mark D. Williams 17:57
was you just, do you think you're a very self reflective person, or does it take the right amount of circumstance for you to get there?
Cinda Pfeil 18:04
Super self reflective?
Mark D. Williams 18:05
Yeah,
Cinda Pfeil 18:05
yeah. And
Mark D. Williams 18:06
I would say, the reason I asked the question is, I don't think I am at baseline, but every time that I kind of need, like, I was thinking about injuries, like I'm a very active person, but when I'm injured, I realize how much I've taken for granted my own health, and every day, before the kids get to go to school, I do a little prayer with them in the car. And as a parent, I, you know, I've told I've said this many times in the podcast, but it's worth repeating is that, you know, I will consider myself a successful parent. Or my wife and I, if we do two things, one, our kids feel loved, and then two, they are confident. Because if you go into this world with love and confidence, watch out world, that's a pretty powerful combo, right? And I bring it up with like, but as a parent, when I'm praying for my kids are just wanting the best for them. What are and no, I have not had it yet. Where the kids have, their kids are pretty little. They have, they haven't overcome any real major challenges and like, that's going to be really hard to sit on the pair on the parent sideline and, like, knowing that, like, they're better for going through difficult times. But as a parent, like, What parent doesn't want to solve the issue? And I think it's relative to this conversation, because I think, you know, in businesses, like our peers and like, we want to help, but you know, it's, I don't know if that, did you ever have that book when you were with kids going on a bear hunt?
Cinda Pfeil 19:20
Oh yeah,
Mark D. Williams 19:21
you can't go over it. You can't go under it. You got
Cinda Pfeil 19:24
to go through it
Mark D. Williams 19:24
and like that is so applicable, totally, oh, I can sing it. We'll pause on that, yeah,
Mark D. Williams 19:30
pause on that one. But anyway, there's a clumsy question, but I guess I'm just thinking about, I am not a very self reflective person, so when it happens, it's always like this light bulb moment. I'm like, oh, because mainly I appreciate those, the time, the quiet, the reflection, and I think sometimes to pause and reflect on your successes. It's not I think as entrepreneurs, we're like fish swimming, and we know, if we stop swimming, and there's some truth to this, if you stop swimming like you're stagnated, you die, if you cut, if you stop innovating like you're slowly dying, right? And so like. Kind of built into the culture of an entrepreneur that you got to keep moving. That being said, there is a very good reason to stop, pause and like, realize how far you've come. And most of the time it seems like it has to come from somebody else, at least for me, someone has to say, like, hey, Cinda, you've done an amazing job. And you're like, Wow, thank you. Megan, right, Katie, so anyway, I don't know where to go with that. That's a poorly framed question. I'm just sharing how I think about it. How do you how do you self reflect both your successes and your failures? Because we grow from that.
Cinda Pfeil 20:34
Yeah, I'm I feel like I'm self reflecting every day. That's just who I am, and it comes way back from when I was a kid. I've had some things, some trauma that I've overcome going was abandoned in a playground with my brother, for example, that's deep and dramatic, and I feel like I'm telling somebody else's story, but it just happened, you know, we were kids, and we were adopted, and we landed in the most amazing family, and,
Mark D. Williams 21:01
oh, you and your brother
Cinda Pfeil 21:03
got to go together. I know we're so lucky. Yeah, he's in Alaska right now, but he still comes down a lot. And I've got the cutest niece, Matilda. She's amazing. But yeah, I I feel like because of going through something like that at such a young age, and then having some other things kind of happen throughout my life. It always grounds you, it always brings you back. And that's, I guess, my example of self reflection. And it's for me, it's taught me such deep Empath, almost to a fault. You know, it's like a superpower, but it's, I love that part of me. I love that I can feel on this really deep level because of some of the stuff I've gone through. I've got an amazing life. It's been wonderful. But, you know, there are some certain things, and we've all got that. You don't know that till you start talking to somebody and hearing their story. And I love hearing other people's story and taking that in and feeling that with them, literally in the moment, and just paying attention to them, because I know it can be hard. I know this is maybe a little off subject, but it's how you shape things and how you approach for me my business, that's why I always say my clients are like family, because I do feel that way. I want that human connection as a solar solo business owner on my own, don't have employees, don't go into an office, don't have the water cooler talks or the happy hours after work, they are my people. So I have to connect in that way. It's just powerful and important.
Mark D. Williams 22:38
I think, you know, I think it is very relevant. It's something that I have really come to enjoy about the podcast. Honestly, I didn't want to have I'm fine with I mean, I can flit and float and have fluffy conversations, but as you get older, it's like you kind of want the real meat on the bone, like, what's real? Because I think we gravitate towards like, the lightning rod of truth, like, or a tuning fork, like, we just want the real note. Like, it doesn't matter if the note is your note or not your note. I can't believe I'm using musical analogies, because I stink at music. But like, I think it's true and Ian, I think what resonates with me, and I think with audience, as I talk to people, I mean, Katie is a frequent, you know, listener, so I often will run ideas by her and say, like, hey, what do you think of this episode? Or, you know, because you want to provide value. But like, at the end of the day, like, I just love hearing people's stories. And I've often contended that even if we didn't have any audience, if no one listened to this episode, I would still be okay with it, because I enjoyed this moment that I that I got to share with you, and thank you for doing that. And I sort of, I love it when people like you and I have never met before, I know. And one of the beautiful things about having an in studio podcast, and they can't all be that way. I mean, this year, we're doing what's called the sunshine tour. So we don't, aren't doing any Monday episodes, because we're going down the coast. So it's like it's California and Canada, and, you know, we've got one maybe from Australia. And so it's like they're all remote, because no one's flying in. I'm not Joe Rogan. Nobody's flying in for the curious builder yet. And
Cinda Pfeil 23:56
so happened, I believe it, but
Mark D. Williams 23:57
it
Mark D. Williams 23:58
goes back to the roots, like when I first started, you know, three and a half years ago or four years ago, it was I wanted. One of the things I knew would set the podcast differently apart, is there is something different about being Ian person with a conversation, and maybe I think it carries in the in the strength of your voice, the emotional connection of seeing another person. Because we now, in today's world, spend
Cinda Pfeil 24:20
so much. Are getting teary Ian, right?
Mark D. Williams 24:22
And we look so much at a screen all the time, and that's fine. It's convenient. It's not the same. It's
Cinda Pfeil 24:26
not the same
Mark D. Williams 24:27
being in and so anyway, I don't know where I was going with that, but
Cinda Pfeil 24:30
I like, actually makes me think of my dating world right now. So I'm dating and getting on those first dates. If you feel like a little connection, you get on those first dates, and you want to connect with them in that way, and I want to hear their stories, because I know that that's a strong point for me to be able to, like, go back and forth and not just have the small talk. I'm a go deep kind of person. I want to get in, and I want to hear your life story and all the things, kind of where we're talking about, all these little triumphs and wins and all that stuff. Because. That's the beauty, that's the good stuff. That's why we're doing what we're
Mark D. Williams 25:04
doing. But don't you think I have so many questions that? But well, from the standpoint of like, I would imagine, like, as you're older, like, I have to imagine that those first dates are actually probably better than they imagine yourself in the 20s, where it's like, you don't know who you are in your 20s. Oh, my heck, you'd hardly know who you are in your 30s and 40s. It's only about now when you're getting the mid I haven't said, like, someone told me their day, they were so depressed they turned 40. I'm 45 and it was my second cousin out and say, I'm out in Oregon and and you just bum out. I'm like, buddy. I said, buckle I said, buckle up. Your 40s are awesome. I said, I honestly,
Cinda Pfeil 25:38
wait till you get
Mark D. Williams 25:39
to your 50s. You know, you know who you you know who you are. You know where you're going, you know what you're doing. I'm not saying you have a life figured out, because I think that being curious about life is the most enjoyable part of it in this journey. But like, honestly, go back to your 20s, like the Cinda today. Could Kick the Butt of Cinda in her 20s, professionally, emotionally, all the ways. Thank you for saying that and but it's, but I think that's honestly, this age is such a fun age, because you don't it just, you're just great
Cinda Pfeil 26:07
that.
Mark D. Williams 26:07
Am I wrong?
Cinda Pfeil 26:08
No, I know you're not wrong. And it's what's funny is a little bit if I was gonna go back, I was married for 17 years. We were together for 24 years. It took me four and a half years to get to the point post divorce of dating. So I'm only six months into dating, and I've been divorced for five
Mark D. Williams 26:25
Yeah,
Cinda Pfeil 26:25
five years, right? That felt terrifying at the time. Now it's the funnest thing in the world, and it's also because I've worked on myself. I took the I did the work like they say, you got to do the work. You got to make sure the other person's doing the work, right? Again, it's not a dating made podcast, but maybe it's relationships. I mean, it's everyone. Yes, it's all that, and it's, it's part of who you are on the daily. So for me, it was me putting my work in, doing the work, and finding myself and finding my vibrancy back, and that's what I can bring to the table, and that's what made it so much more fun to be able to say, Sunday, you've got this, you've got the confidence to do this, and let's go. Let's just go, and meeting just amazing humans along the way is the icing on the cake. Yeah,
Mark D. Williams 27:14
I think it's just being open to people that can inspire you and people that can sort of encourage you. Yeah, I think, you know, someone asked me the other day, you know, why do you do what you do? Or, you know what is? What is the motivation? And sometimes I don't know if we know, or I should just speak for myself. Sometimes I don't know what the motivation is, but I find real joy in people, in the craft, I think, finding meaning and purpose, however that looks. And I feel very fortunate that I found it at a young age, because I know a lot of people, I think that's one of the things that's really nice about entrepreneurship. It's not for everybody, but because we all know that it's not some, I think that's whole point of this podcast, right? Or the one, but we've sort of meandered from our topic here a little bit. That's fine, whatever the point being is that, like people, you know, you hear people, oh, you own your business. You're, you have the it must be so easy. Your Own Boss, you're like, and every entrepreneur gets to roll their eyes and be like, Okay, that's not really how it all goes. But it doesn't mean that we aren't thankful for it, and it doesn't mean that we haven't accepted those challenges and have are so grateful for. And I think redefining the word, our culture seems to love this word failure, and I think that's why that topic from our last week's episode has been so powerful for people, is
Cinda Pfeil 28:27
that
Mark D. Williams 28:28
failure is a construct that doesn't really exist. In my opinion, I think it's a setback, it's a learning opportunity,
Cinda Pfeil 28:34
learning. And I
Mark D. Williams 28:34
think there's people in our lives, mentors, parents, whoever it is that call and sometimes it's our self discovery of realizing, like, No, this is an opportunity to kind of level up, to be a better yeah.
Cinda Pfeil 28:46
Yeah, something new, yeah. Well,
Mark D. Williams 28:48
I have
Mark D. Williams 28:48
a feeling you and I could talk for another couple hours. I want to respect your time and the audience's time as well. Thank you for coming on.
Cinda Pfeil 28:55
Thank you for having me
Mark D. Williams 28:56
and doing this. So we'll have everything in the show notes. And yeah, if you're in Minnesota, look up Cinda and
Cinda Pfeil 29:03
look me up.
Mark D. Williams 29:03
Look her up.
Cinda Pfeil 29:04
She's
Mark D. Williams 29:04
around style infused, living. Thanks for coming
Cinda Pfeil 29:06
on. Thank you.
Mark D. Williams 29:07
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