Episode 135 - Home Gyms Are More Than Dumbbells: How the Wellness Boom Is Changing Homebuilding with Kali Sudbrook
#135 | Kali Sudbrook | Beachside Custom Gyms | How the Wellness Boom Is Changing Homebuilding
In this episode of The Curious Builder Podcast, Mark hangs out with Kali Sudbrook from Beachside Custom Gyms to talk all things home wellness and fitness spaces. They share Kali’s wild leap from a cushy corporate job to designing killer custom gyms, and chat about how the wellness industry is exploding in homebuilding right now. If you’re into building, designing, or just want your own awesome home gym, tune in for plenty of laughs, some great advice, and why wellness spaces are absolutely the next big thing.
Listen to the full episode:
About Kali Sudbrook
Kali Sudbrook is the founder of Beachside Custom Gyms, a luxury design-build firm that creates inspiring, high-performance home gyms and wellness spaces. With a background in kinesiology, interior design, and licensed contracting, she’s one of the only professionals bridging fitness expertise with design and construction. Kali has been featured on national podcasts and stages, including the International Builder Show, where she shares how intentional spaces transform both homes and lives.
Resources:
Visit Beachside Custom Gyms’ Website
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Kali Sudbrook 00:04
I quit my very stable, salary, cushy career job and became a project manager at a van upfitter place that no longer exists. And I went from bad to worse. And so it was probably the worst job I've ever had, and I just walked in one day and quit. I was like, this is going to be my last day. And then I looked at my watch. I'm like, actually, I'm done right now today,
Mark D. Williams 00:29
I'm curious go to podcast. We had Callie sudbrook on from beachside custom gyms in Newport, California, and not only a ray of sunshine, but a ton of energy. And really, we dialed down pretty deep on way more than the niche, but really the cultural movement of the wellness space in homes. And so if you're a home builder in America, an architect or a designer, and your clients haven't asked for it, or you're not really having an open mind to how this is affecting you, like you need to take a listen to this, because the wellness industry is doubling over the next 10 years, and you want to be a part of it. Without further ado, here's Callie. Welcome to Curtis builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, the host today I am joined on the West Coast, beachside custom gyms. I've got Callie sudbrook in the studio, actually, not in studio, remote. I wish you were here now. A bit better yet. We'll meet up in Costa Rica. You're going there. So actually, that's the first time I saw a picture of you. I When you sent me an intake form and I was doing some research. It wasn't until I saw your photo, I'm like, wait a minute, because we've never met in person. And be like, I have definitely seen you on a lot of the builder videos. And I'm because you're very recognizable. And so all right, it is totally no 100% the hair and in the guns, you got some serious guns. And so anyway, I was like, oh yeah. And I guess I already knew who your vibe. I could know, I could feel what your vibe would be like. Because I'm like, Well, anyone who's going to build her retreat and knows Morgan is already part of the family, so yeah, there we go. Well, tell me. Well, I guess let's start there. You build her retreat. For those that don't know, why don't you give us the Crash Course? I think you guys are coming up on your Is this your second or third build her third year? No way. Yeah. So give the audience that doesn't know what build her retreat is, what it is, because it's, I'm a huge fan of it, and it's pretty
Kali Sudbrook 02:11
amazing. I don't know how to say this without being cheesy, but it was totally life changing. And I mean that in like, all the ways. Like, I mean you go there as a business owner, you're scared, because there's all these other women and, like, notoriously, women are like, judgmental and catty and all these things, right? So you're like, it's like, going to kindergarten on your first day. You're like, what is this gonna be like? But it's like, you get there and you just start chit chatting, you start like, Oh my God. Like, I'm having that experience too. And you just start vibing and flowing. And, like, realizing, like, I am in the room right now with, like, my people. And it was just amazing to feel that. And it's until you're in that space, it's hard to really explain what that feels like. It's just powerful.
Mark D. Williams 02:48
So, yeah, no, it's amazing because we, I had this idea so, and you've never been part of the contractor coalition, correct? Not yet, not yet, exactly. Are you coming to Chicago?
Kali Sudbrook 02:58
No, I'm not. Okay, yeah, this year's gonna be tough, but I have an audio document. I know we're trading
Mark D. Williams 03:03
some emails. Well, the reason I bring it up is Morgan is the one that taught me the phrase. I use it all the time. Your vibe attracts your tribe. But that's so true of not only the contractor coalition, but obviously these retreats, and I'm doing our first, or, no, I'm sorry, our second boot camp retreat for curious builder. And we did the first one in Zion in the whole concept, for me was a little bit different than Morgan's build her retreat. I retreat, which was two a day workouts, no phones, no alcohol, off the grid, get into nature and just really fight that stereotype that the builders are fat, hairy, lazy, alcoholic hair, hairy people. And I'm like, and I'm like, I my joke is, I'm fine with flannel on hair, the rest of it we could get rid of, but anyway, we're going to Costa Rica. We're going the same place that you are. Because as I was looking around, I was like, do was like, do I go to Mexico? I was like, You know what Morgan talks about, how great Costa Rica is. I've been there, but never to this resort. And then, as it turns out, we're coming in the day that you leave. I don't know if I told you this, so did tell me that. And I was like, trying to figure out the dates, like, can I make this work? You should stay you because, I mean, it's right up your alley, right? I mean, it's my jam perfectly. I hope you stay. But anyway, I think we've got, we have only three spots left, so we have, we have room for 20 total, because we don't have both towers like you do, and we have 17 signed up. And so three spots and we're coming, I think it's like January 25 and you guys are there, like January 22 or something. Yeah. Anyway, pretty cool. Super cool. Yeah. What? So moving on from the builder retreats, you had mentioned in your intake form that you like. How did you find out about the curious builder? It had to do with another builder here in Minnesota, right?
Kali Sudbrook 04:32
Yeah. So obviously, I've been a longtime listener, but my mentor, I call all these people my mentors because they just helped me out, and I have a great rapport with them, but Michael anshel was probably one of my first builder type mentors, and I actually attended his cope the cost of project execution sort of, it's not a class. It was like a weekend retreat, and that just it blew my mind. It changed the way I approach pricing and profitability in my business, and I probably would not. Be here as a business if it weren't for Michael. So that's amazing. Yeah, well, how long ago was that? That was two years ago. So I'm coming up on my fourth year in business this year, like, I'm like, three months in, or, sorry, three years and eight months in, or something like that. So yeah, but who's counting?
Mark D. Williams 05:15
I mean, who's counting? Except me. It's funny. So because we had Michael on maybe a year or two years ago, and he actually lives, I mean, I think he's like five or seven blocks away from my personal house, and his his daughter is in Tate, my five year old's kindergarten class. So, yeah, so I see his wife more than I see Michael, but at all the school functions were teacher workshops, or, like the little jamboree or whatever, I see Michael, and he's been, obviously, been on the podcast. I actually had him because he's from a building science standpoint, he's one of just a handful of people that is, I can't I mean, he's so knowledgeable. I mean, he is amazing, and I just love his personality and everything about him. So I actually had him come to one of our job sites to sort of do a zip tutorial with our zip reps and our framing crew, when we're working on this, we have this project we're working on right now called misah, who's which is this whole home philosophy built around wellness, which is a little bit what we're going to talk about today with your business, but just tying it into Michael. And so it's not very often that you get to work on a project, but now, as you get into brands and you get into storytelling and you get into collaboration, I think it's going to be kind of the future. I think you're going to see more and more builders work together, especially if you're trying to educate our talent pools and our the people we work with, to try to do something or push the envelope to something new. I think you sort of need that collaboration, because you can't be an expert in everything,
Kali Sudbrook 06:36
sure, but somehow he is. So, yeah, that is true. That is
Mark D. Williams 06:39
true. He is pretty well versed. He does know pretty much the answer. And on top of he's pretty humble. So it's like, yeah, you are, yeah, he's pretty great. Well, let's talk about you what. What did you do before you decided to start beachside custom gyms? It doesn't seem like, if you've been doing this for four years, it wasn't like you just were hashed as this fully formed, awesome person like, walk us through what made you start a business, and why specialize in that was probably my number one question. Like, it's, yeah, very unique niche. And, like, how did you come there? Because we'll talk a little bit about my experience. Of, like, obviously, I've built many gyms. I'm not sure I would say a custom gym builder, because the majority of an architecture is the house and the clients, and unless the clients are super into it, like my clientele the gym, although now the wellness industry, and I'm super into it personally, so I probably affect the clients more to push them into saunas, cold tubs than the normal builder, because I like that. But I think it's a little bit like when you're really into something, you talk about it, and you your vibe again, attracts your tribe, but where you literally people aren't coming to you on I mean, you're like, 100 for 100 like, no one is coming to you to build a pub. They want a gym. I mean, maybe you could do a both. The point is, like, why specialize? Like, is there that much demand, or that was just your interest was so good? You're like, I know I can capitalize on this market.
Kali Sudbrook 07:55
It's a little bit of both. Like, I'm still tapping into the demand, certainly, because people don't know that it even exists, and so they don't know, like, if you don't know that something exists when you're designing a home, oh, I can change the color of this, or I can use this material Ian instead of that, then you don't even know that you can have that thing, right? So a lot of it is just education and telling people you can have a wellness space in your home, because it's not just exclusive to commercial gyms nowadays, like covid, like you said, or maybe we chatted about it offline, it really changed the trajectory of things. And so I really got here by accident, to be quite honest, like I was in a corporate job. I was working in academia, actually, at a local school, and the university just started getting kind of weird amongst the covid stuff. And I thought my time here is expiring, and I had been there for 12 years as a fitness director, and during covid, we had some downtime, and so I did really cool fun projects, like I remodeled our house, and I did a cool Sprinter van barber shop, a mobile barber shop with my brother, yeah, and because he couldn't cut hair. So it was like all these really fun projects that were bringing me so much joy, and I was being creative and tapping into all these really fun, like skills that I didn't know that I had. And so I finally quit my job, and I I don't tell a lot of people this, because it's actually kind of embarrassing, but I took a job I thought, well, I did this van, and this must be what I'm going to do now. And so I quit my very stable, salaried, cushy career job and became a project manager at a van upfitter place that no longer exists. And I went from bad to worse. And so it was probably the worst job I've ever had, and I just walked in one day and quit. I was like, this is going to be my last day. And then I looked at my watch, I'm like, actually, I'm done right now. So it was one of those things where I didn't have a plan. I didn't know what I was doing, and I kind of gave myself like a stomach ulcer from stressing so much. I'm like, Well, I'm panicked. What am I going to do now? And my wife was like, you'll figure it out. You know exactly what you want to do. And I thought, Okay, well, I've always loved building. Talked to a coach, and she was like, kind of helped me identify my values. And she's like, Okay. So it sounds like what you want is you want freedom and autonomy, you want creativity to do what you want, and you want to get paid what you're worth. And I was like, Yes. She's like, okay, don't take any jobs unless it fits the bill. And all that would fit that bill was entrepreneurship, and, you know, so I became licensed, I did the whole thing, and here I am so a lot, kind of a weird path to get here, but I found that marrying my former, like I say, my past life, with what I'm doing now as an interior designer and contractor, it just I become a triple threat. So it's like I have the contracting experience now, not much, but, you know, I try and stay as well versus I can I have the interior design aspect and I have the fitness aspect. So there you go. That's my story.
Mark D. Williams 10:46
I love that. I love that your coach, by the way, gave you good advice. My favorite quote over the last couple of years has been boundaries create freedom. And I like that the boundaries that your coach put on your search was like, if it doesn't fit these criterias, don't chase it, because we all spend, I don't know why. It must have to do with age and getting wiser. Like as we get older, we realize we don't have to do certain things, or we're not interested, or we really want to return our time. We probably, I'm 45 I haven't hit the point where it's like I'm worried about death or any of those things, just yet, not that it could happen to any of us, but like we, we invest our time on the things that we care about the most. And I think when you're younger, you have this abundance of time and energy, so you kind of waste your time on everything. And I'm not even sure it's a waste of time, because you're figuring out who you are. But then when you kind of, you know someone the other day was lamenting the fact that they were 40, my cousin, actually, and I'm like, Are you kidding me, 40 is awesome. You know who you are. You know where you're living. You know what your job is. You get maybe you have kids, you've got whatever's going on, like, you were pretty crystal clear on what the next 20 years most likely looks like. And yes, I get that midlife crisis is usually happened around this point of time as well. But like, it's, like, it's awesome, like, oh, you go to bed earlier, you wake up earlier, you do more, you're more clear on your, like, exciting goals. And so I, I actually think that having that clarity of vision is really empowering. And so
Kali Sudbrook 12:06
I mean, I'm 39 and I'm finding now it's like, okay, yeah, I'm approaching 40, but I think I had my midlife crisis at 30, because there's just some like, unrest of what I was doing and where I was going, and it wasn't fulfilling. I wasn't finding that joy. And now it's like, I wake up, and everyone says it, it's like, I'm excited, I'm passionate about what I'm doing, and it's like, the sky's the limit.
Mark D. Williams 12:25
How do so now it makes more sense. I mean, obviously you're not only personal fitness, but obviously the fact that you're a program director, kind of answers like, why that? Did you find that from a construction standpoint, what has been the, I should say, what is the most challenging part of these three things, we've got the personal fitness you have the program directoring And the call it interior designs for layout and all those things. And then now you're a GC. What do you find personally to be the most difficult?
Kali Sudbrook 12:53
I think it's just keeping up with the sheer volume of things that need to take place within a business. But it's like, I don't have a giant team yet. I have part time people. I've got bas I've got the bookkeeper, I've got all the things, right? But it's like building that team in a smart way so that I'm not top heavy or getting into a situation that I can't handle. But yeah, I think it's just been like learning the business side of it has been the most challenging and the most difficult. And I think most builders and most people on your show can attest to that.
Mark D. Williams 13:23
I 100% agree. I mean, I've said it 100 times, and I'll say it 100 more, that you can be good at business and be a bad builder and you can make it. Yeah, you can be right. I mean, if you're good at business, I mean, you can it. Can make up for a lot, and ultimately, you can be really good, you can really, be really good at your craft and be a bad business owner. You're not going to make it, you'll go bankrupt, or you'll go out of business, hopefully, obviously, you go Beth and we I was just at in Chicago for the last three days, the curious builder collective, curious design collective and curious architect collective, here in Minnesota, we did a two day trip, and the whole point of it was to celebrate entrepreneurship and sort of be together. But we all face the same issues, marketing, hiring, firing, scaling, imposter syndrome, all the things, because guess what, we're all people, and we all own a business. So guess what? The Venn diagram is pretty overlapped. So if you think that you suffer from something that no one else does, like I'm telling you, you don't everyone. You're not that very similar problems, which is great because then there's lots of answers out there. You just have to ask for help well,
Kali Sudbrook 14:21
and the community exists to help you. Like, we're all out there. Like, why should we all be out there struggling by ourselves? It's like, join a community, be a part of something, and you have all of your answers, or all of your questions answered in that moment right
Mark D. Williams 14:34
there. So you have your, let's go back four years ago, yeah, or three, three years and eight months. But who's counting? Yeah, right. You have your GC license. You have your experience. What's your first job? Did you have a client that said, hey, build this. They're not. I mean, you had done some stuff, obviously, before, during covid. But like, where do you start?
Kali Sudbrook 14:51
A lot of it was just friends, which everyone says, Oh, don't work for friends. But if it hadn't have been for friends, really wouldn't be here. And so I was doing, like, laundry rooms and like, bath. From refreshes, and like, every time someone asked me if I could do it, I thought, yeah, I could do that. And I would just learn as I went drink from a fire hose. And there I There I go. But and I would just research the hell out of things, how to perform it and do it properly. And that's where I stumbled upon a lot of like, the Instagram influencer people, the people who are doing it the right way, of course. And I just got really lucky stumbling upon the right people. But then it wasn't until probably my first my year and a half in I had a former colleague, a fitness colleague, asked me, and he and I have been buddies since grad school, actually, no since undergrad. Anyway, that doesn't matter. The point is he asked me to do his garage gym, and he's a coach, a strength coach, and he's like, I just want it to be a filming studio, but I want all these things. And I was like, that sounds really cool. I'm in. So that was like, and I did two jobs like that. And after the second one, I was like, Huh? I think I'm on to something.
Mark D. Williams 15:52
Here were you, did you when you started your company? I mean, the thing I like about your name versus so many contractors in America, for whatever reason, when we're 23 years old, or whenever we started companies, we name it after ourself, which is dumb. I hated that. When did you know that beachside custom gyms was your name, or was that not your original name? And then you changed after these two jobs that you just did?
Kali Sudbrook 16:14
Well, it was beachside interiors remodeling. And the reason why I chose that name is because my father in law is on the Maryland coast, on the Chesapeake Bay. And his he's a contractor, so he does kitchens and bathrooms. And I was really inspired by the name, because I thought, well, he's Bayside interior group. I can be beachside interiors on the west coast. So we had kind of like the east and west coast thing going on, and that was really cool. And I felt like I gave like the nod to my father in law, in that sense. But then as it obviously progressed and I started niching down, I thought, well, the interior is remodeling part doesn't make sense anymore, so I had to do a little rebrand and beachside custom gyms. It's like I'm in Newport Beach. Like everyone in Newport Beach wants to be fit. They want to have a fitness space all the things I want the sauna. So it just made sense to call it that.
Mark D. Williams 17:08
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Kali Sudbrook 18:49
go. Well, and I want it to be very intentional, too, of like extrapolating like my self from the brand, because for sellability Later on, is that a word? Sell ability? Okay, yeah, we just made it a word. So like to sell later. And I also wanted to keep my Instagram sort of Persona separate from the business, so that I can have my Cali the contractor, and I can have beachside custom gyms, and they're separate entities. Sometimes they share content, but not always.
Mark D. Williams 19:18
I think, I mean you, I think the benefit of starting a business when you've had a previous job is hugely valuable, because your learning path is so much faster. The fact that you already did a brand change that quickly is, I mean, if you're not, you know this now, but if you're not nimble and agile and willing to, of course, yeah. I mean, that is the key of any entrepreneur, right? No one has it figured out. In fact, you if anyone tells you they have it figured out at any point in their career, I call him a liar. I think even after you've retired, I don't think you've got to figure it out. Because my dad was a builder, and I remember he built about 40 homes a year. And I remember asking him at the time he built like 800 homes in his career, or something like that. Yeah. And I said, this is before I got into building. I said, Dad, did you if you walk through one of your homes, like, what would you change? He goes, there wasn't a single and he built mostly semi mod, semi custom homes. So a lot of the same plans. And even on those homes, he said, there wasn't a home I couldn't go through and find 10 things I would change as a highly never built anything really the same, everything is different. Like, I could find 20 things, 30 things different, and that's not a negative. I think our society and maybe or even our clients and maybe even ourselves have to be a little bit more forgiving that you're building a one off prototype. Like, nobody gets the prototype right every time. Like, if you built the same house 100 times, sure, okay, you can hold yourself to a whole different standard than you can on a one off or two off or five off. And it's not that we don't learn. I think that's the whole point. I think that's what my custom is. So appealing is because we get to keep learning. I mean, that's the name of the podcast curiosity. Like I would get bored out of my mind if I had to do the same thing every day, I couldn't do it. I mean, I literally could not do it. I'd be in an insane asylum.
Kali Sudbrook 21:01
I think that's why we do what we do. I mean, we all have ADHD. We all want to do something new and different, and it's the novelty that pushes you to progress and reiterate things just expand and evolve. So if you don't have that, God, how boring,
Mark D. Williams 21:15
totally and that's why it's so fun when you like. You know, you can see the joy in the way you talk. And I have a feeling you were joyous Anyway, before this, but the idea that you could also do what you love, and that you get that so much fulfillment, I mean, I think if you love what you do, kind of that old labs, you don't work a day in your life. And I'm not saying you don't work, but the idea is like, maybe I should say it's not hard to work, right? Because you enjoy it, you want to work,
Kali Sudbrook 21:38
and you're motivated. You're intrinsically motivated to do better, to show up and just to be like your authentic self, because it's that's what drives you.
Mark D. Williams 21:47
One thing that seems very appealing about and correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't. Certainly, there's a lot more remodeling probably in California, because the new home permits, especially on the bay. You might be a couple of years. I've had a few people on the podcast from California. I'm like, I don't think I could operate in California. The idea that I would have to wait a couple of years for the Coastal Commission to grant me the grace of building a home, I would lose my marbles. My question for you is, how often, or is it a viable business strategy for you to partner with other custom home builders or remodelers? Because as you specialize more and more. I gotta believe there's not that many high end custom home gym designers. I mean, certainly, like, for instance, I can build the gym, but I would go to a consultant, I mean, or my designer or the client, but like, you have a professional training background that I could never hope to compete with, I'd be way better off consulting with you. Actually, here's an idea right now. You could have a one to one consulting page right on your website, actually, where somebody all the builders across America could just say, how are you any different than a interior designer or architectural designer or an engineer or a landscape designer like I'm doing this well in the studio right now, and I'm doing it based on my lifetime of loving athletics and all these things. But like, honestly, I'm not. I have not been trained other than school of hard knocks on all these things you have you literally, I think you said, have master's degree in it. Like, how much better would it be if I could call you and say, Hey, for whatever rate, an hour or a flat rate, here's the job. Because you can't build a home in Minnesota or Utah or any of these other places, but you have the knowledge, and I would be happy to pay you. And now, in front of my client, I have an expert on my team. Have you thought of this? Because right now, if you haven't, I think I'm hiring you.
Kali Sudbrook 23:31
So yeah, I actually have like, a four pronged approach. So first it was just homeowners and, like, coaches and athletes. And then I thought, exactly like you said, I have basically my lead gen filled if I can work for builders, basically because every time they have a new house, there's the question, Do you want a home fitness or wellness center in your home? So that's sort of like phase two of like contacting all these builders and custom home builders down here in Newport Beach and Costa Mesa. And then the fourth prong is other designers and architects. So I mean, right there I have, like, things stacked up, right potentially, yeah.
Mark D. Williams 24:08
Have you worked with any yet? Where do you have builders that are contracting you to do that portion for them, either physically or at least, consulting on it?
Kali Sudbrook 24:16
Not yet, but again, it's putting together, like the verbiage for IT resources. And I wanted to be very strategic in my approach. And part of that is probably fear of like, not wanting to be shot down, but I also want to show up in a way that's really valuable for them. And putting the words to that, I wanted to maybe sit on it and take some time. So I've spent like, the last like three months just creating that. Basically, it's like a tri fold and making time to go deliver them personally to each and every single builder. So I've got my list, I've scraped the internet, I've done my VA does all that stuff, yeah. And then just make a very, just persistent approach to each of them. And then, you
Mark D. Williams 24:55
know what I never thought of until this very moment of you know how the saying is you have to meet people where they're at. But like, physically, when you're a personal trainer, or if you that's what you were doing, like someone comes in who's 100 pounds overweight, like, you can't make them run a six minute mile. First of all, they can't, or they won't, either way, they're not running six minute miles, but you just have to meet it. But tell you what? Can you walk 100 yards and then run 100 yards like you gotta. Where I'm going with this is, like, if you meet someone early enough, like in design, you can have a much bigger impact on the outcome. But a lot of people say, like, Hey, this is my space. Like, yeah, I would love, I would love a basketball gym in my house, but, like, I've got like, a 20 by 10 room. Like, what can you do for me? And you're like, make you a killing mini bowling alley. Anyway, I'm going with this is like meeting people where they're at. And sometimes we have to do that with our clients because they may not be there, or sometimes you have to push them. It's fun to push them just enough so that they're open to new ideas. And sometimes they push us. I mean, I've had clients that try to take us to another level, which is super rewarding. I think it's a push pull. But have you had any stories where you're someone comes in for a remodel, and you're like, they would like this, but their space basically their space limits their ask. And then how do you pivot around that? How do you sort of educate the client that, hey, we have to sort of meet you where your space is at.
Kali Sudbrook 26:14
I think it's no different from when someone gives you their wish list for a kitchen and you're looking at the space. Let's say it's a remodel, it's not a full on custom build, and you're limited. You're always limited by something, right? And so it's collecting that vision, their needs and wants, and then showing them physically, hey, this is what it would look like if we crammed all that in here. I don't think you're gonna like it. Here's the footprints, here's how it's gonna flow. You put that here. You can't do this. So it's just a it's an education piece. Is all it is, which is what we do with all of our clients.
Mark D. Williams 26:44
I mean, it's true, just using different things. I was thinking about space. I was at a hotel, in the hotel gym, very well. Sometimes they're good the but you're right. Most of them are terrible, yeah. And then with this one, it was so bad. In fact, it was so bad. We decided, because I'm actually working through some plantar fasciitis, and so I'm like, I can't run on the treadmill anyway. And I was like, you know, fine about that. I would love, oh, man, I this summer I was training for 100 and so I really did a number on my foot. So I'm, like, four weeks post race, and I am a hobbling about, like, $400 worth of orthotics. I put it, I have it, like every shoot, I am at my slippers. I have it everywhere. And like, I will not run until my foot does not hurt, but I so bet I want to, like, play basketball. Anyway, this is a whole nother personal thing. Yeah. Anyway, the point of it is meeting people where they're at, I am an injured goose at the moment. Well, I totally derailed myself where I was going with that injured goose comment. Let's see what we're talking about. We're talking
Kali Sudbrook 27:39
about the space. But, yeah, meeting people where they're at and giving, oh, the
Mark D. Williams 27:42
limitations of space where I was going to go with it. So in the hotel, like it was just a gym needs way more space than you think. Like, I have a home gym in our basement. Again, after covid, we bought a bunch of kettlebells. We got a squat rack. I mean, we've got more things in this small, little one car tuck on our garage than I mean, I'm sure you've seen it, but like, you make do. It's fine. You fold stuff up, but like, an actual gym that has, like, natural light open space, like, you just feel better. Like, it's no wonder, unless you're kind of a die hard, like, going to the basement. Like, why is it that the majority of exercise rooms are the leftover space? And this Ian correct me if I'm wrong, but, like, I went, Yeah, it's, you build a house. You want three bedrooms, you want four bedrooms. You want a pool. You want this, you want that, all these things. And then, oh, by the way, the last question you ask is, Would you like one of the basement bedrooms? Do you want to be a flex room? It's 12 by 12. It's four like, could you make it? And it's actually gotten better in the last five years post covid than it was before this. And so everyone's looking at a mirror running into a concrete wall. And I'm
Kali Sudbrook 28:45
like, wow, it kills me. It kills me. So am I wrong? Is that not the is that not the normal though, it's always the way. It's the crusty basement, it's the crusty garage gym, and it's like, there's, it's an afterthought every single time. And it's like, why, if you're spending, literally, potentially, let's say, two hours every single day in this space. Why do you have to be working out in this crusty dungeon like you're not even sometimes spending that much time in a in your bathroom that you've spent 150k on? So it makes no logical sense. It truly doesn't. And then it will and go ahead. No go. I mean, you look into like you said, there's no natural light. It's like, that's a huge thing, especially here in California. We want to bring light into the spaces. We have so much of it. We're so lucky to be here that why not design around that?
Mark D. Williams 29:36
So we'll talk more about this offline. Because I'll, maybe I'll be your first I'll be your first client for consulting, although the space is already pretty much built, so I'm not sure you're gonna have to do with what you got. Ian, changes that I can make. Actually, I'm dead serious. I will be your first client. I'll be plus, yeah, well, anyway, I'll be great. We're going with this is like, so not to make this all about Misa, who's this? We're doing a whole house right now based around wellness. And I haven't been this excited about those. In the house in a long time. But a real shout out to my architectural designer, Carl. He's how I got into Ultra running, ultra marathoning, and he's my next door neighbor, and so about we moved there five years ago. So about three and a half years ago, I started running with this group, biking with group. Now, before you know it, you're drinking the Kool Aid. You're doing what they're doing. But long story short, we're designing this house, and it was his idea, because I was like, even though that was my space, and we're doing this outdoor pool, and he said, this was kind of at the ninth hour. He said, Why don't we think about the exercise room differently? Why don't we put it up on the pool, instead of having a pool cabana house that overlooks the water? Wouldn't you rather have natural light with bifold pellet doors that opens up to the pool while you're working out, and because everyone wants to who wouldn't want to work, it's just that we've never taken the time to design or prioritize that. And for me personally, I get up really early to work out, and I can't tell you how many times my wife is like, if I'm doing deadlifts with the bumper plates, like dead like that Tran that that noise transfers through concrete like crazy. Am I what? I'll get a text at like, a 515 the morning and be like, What are you doing? It's like yelling, what are you doing? I'm like, you know, of course, you're max your heart rates. I'd be like, I'm working out. What are you doing? And you're like, you're waking up the whole block. Anyway. I'm thinking about all this stuff because, like, now the house is, I have, we have this wellness center that's detached from the house, and it was there to solve two specific needs. One, you could someone could work out early without the banging of noises waking up your little kids or whatever, I guess, just wakes up your neighbors now and then. The second is natural light. And so anyway, I am totally can't wait to use this design for future clients,
Kali Sudbrook 31:38
well, and yes, and speaking of like, biophilic design, like, that's the ultimate right there, where you can just open it up, assuming weather is beautiful for you, and you're one with nature, which automatically makes endorphins rush even more. It's just all the things, right? And it's funny that you bring up the detached, detached spaces is that's another facet that I'm trying to offer. And so I did sort of a test run with our own house. We built a fitness shed. And you think, like, Oh, it's a shed for tools. No, it is, like, 12 by eight. It's got, like, these vaulted ceilings. It's beautiful. I'm actually finishing it this week, and to show that, like, you can have a detached space so you're not waking up the kids, wife, whoever. And it can just be your own little personal wellness sanctuary. We've got the sauna going in. It's the whole thing. So then you don't have to carve out space in the garage. Let's say you use it for tools or to park cars. You don't have to sort of get this tiny little rack or have this tiny little footprint. You can have this whole other space that maybe was, yeah, still an afterthought because it wasn't planned as part of their original home, but you have options now, which is so cool.
Mark D. Williams 32:45
Oh, that's amazing. What? When you're designing these spaces again, you have to meet people where they're at. As you get into obviously, the finishes. Let's talk a little bit about high level. I mean, you've got whether it's, well, let's not go there, because you go there forever on design. I'm thinking about, like, more like equipment, like correct me if I'm wrong, but the average client probably wants a treadmill and or a peloton and maybe some sort of multi use weight rack. Is that in a yoga mat? Is that roughly 70, 80% of them, or what would be, if you said 70% of the people had these three four things, what would they be? And then the person that wants to go beyond, sort of, like your stereotypical what does that look like in terms of what other things do they have to space plan for?
Kali Sudbrook 33:28
So my answer is going to depend, or my answer would be, it depends is because based on the clientele. So I work with a lot of fitness people, so they already have knowledge of what's out there, so they're gonna maybe have something in mind of, like, I want this specific thing, I want this specific rack, or something similar. I want these types of attachments. Maybe they don't know where to get them, but they just know that they want that thing. So I have, I would say, more of a high level clientele than, like, your average person. That probably doesn't work out a whole lot, but they're like, I want a home gym. Yeah? We're probably just going to stick to, like, the treadmill, the time. Yeah, some sort of, like, multi use functional. So yours is getting
Mark D. Williams 34:04
way more specific then I like, like, I am specifically training myself and my kids to be like, strikers on the Manchester United team. I need soccer agility ladders?
Kali Sudbrook 34:16
Yeah, absolutely. And I actually, we just did one down in San Diego for he's a coach. He works with a lot of NFL guys and so and NBA guys, and so they're coming to his home, his personal home, where he has this whole garage set up, and he's also training his kids in there too. So it's like this whole little thing where it's got to meet the needs of all of these different populations and clientele. And so it's really getting down into the nitty gritty of knowing what's out there that's going to suit their needs and fit the bill for what they're asking for. And so that requires a certain level of knowledge of what's on the market. And it's not just going to rogue and buying off the website. That's kind of old school. Now it's like, yeah, you can DIY your home garage with rogue and nothing against them. But there's literally so many. The other equipment, brands and solutions and things that you can do differently with the space outside of rogue and peloton that also have personality and look cool and are beautiful. There's equipment out there that's wood clad and they have really cool stitching, intricate leather designs. I mean, there's literally something for everybody, but you have to know that it exists.
Mark D. Williams 35:22
Well, it's funny. You say that I was watching one of your videos on your website, and you had a it was a vertical grain white oak, whatever machine, and next to it was a weight rack that would normally just be all metal, and you had done it out of matching white oak. And I think that's where that's pretty cool, because you're mixing, well, my two favorite hobbies, building and exercise. And yet there's like, this cool design element where it can still be functional but beautiful at the same time.
Kali Sudbrook 35:50
Yeah, because the last thing I want it to be is a, an afterthought and B. I don't want it to look like everyone else's gym, like I want it to look personal to that person's vibe, their spirit, if you will, when they walk into that space, what's going to drive them? It has to look a certain way. It has to feel a certain way. And I don't know that I have it summed up of like, oh, this is how I approach figuring that out. It's just sort of maybe a sixth sense that I have. But every single client I have, when we're done, they're like, You nailed it. Like, I didn't even know it was going to look like this. This, this like blew my mind, and it's exactly what I wanted. Somehow you crawled into my brain and spit out what was in there.
Mark D. Williams 36:27
So well. So let's talk a little bit about trends. So forever again, these are stereotypes. Forever working out was cardio, weight, body exercise. Those were kind of the main things the last What do you think? And in our culture, specifically in the United States, because, like, I go thermal culture on you. So like, son has been around for since the beginning of time, pretty much. I mean, Finland always gets the credit for him. But let's just say that the United States is so far behind in solar, sorry, heat culture compared to the rest of the world. Like, I was talking to someone therapies, yeah, I was talking Yeah, I was talking to someone, and I'm blanking on because I'm actually trying to feature them at Misa, who's, it's a company out of Finland, like harvana, I think it is, anyway, long story. They were, like, saying that, yeah, Harvey, I so they've got, like, you've got, like, let's call it the Russian bath houses, or you've got the you're in Greece and you've got this, or you're in Japan, and, like every other culture has these very long, storied histories with thermal culture. The United States does not, and we're only behind a couple 100 years old. But so they were talking about this, just the wellness industry at General, and I had mentioned that you have a better number on it, but like, I feel like you can't go anywhere on Instagram or anywhere unless I'm just being like, what's that? 2 trillion? We talked about it, yeah, 2 trillion. So the industry is 2 trillion. I read somewhere that by 2034 it's going to be 3.7 trillion, so almost double in nine years. And that's everything, right? That's not just workout equipment. That's what we drink, what we eat, what we wear. I'm sure wellness, it's a huge, I mean, it's a monster category, specifically to, like gyms and things like that. I think I was just, I had some stats brought up here. What is it? It said that global home fitness equipment in 2023 was 11 point 3 billion globally, and it will be 17 point 2 billion by 2032, so nine years. And it, although that was when the time that was written, yeah, I mean, just massive. That's just equipment that has not, that's not all the other things. That's not sauna, that's not cold tub, which I feel like right now, unless I'm just being served, because I keep looking for it on Instagram, the algorithm is locked in on me. Like, I don't think I've, I can't, I don't think I've built the house in the last five years that doesn't have a sauna. And part of it is like, I built one in my backyard, and I take one about three to four days a week. So like, I'm super enthusiastic about sauna, and so inevitably, I have clients that that even if they don't want
Kali Sudbrook 38:50
one way, like bragging rights, it's like, oh, I have this cool thing. And when you have guests over, you can share it with them. It's an experience. You're talking about having an experiential home. At that point, you're having guests there in your kitchen. You're having guests in your gym and your sauna and your cold plunge, and you're creating memories with these people that are core memories. And that's like, I don't want to take this on a tangent, but here I am on my soapbox. It's like you're creating a space that has so many lasting effects as a core memory with a family, and you can't put a price tag on that sort of a thing. Like, sure you're gonna make memories in the kitchen and the living room and but, like a lot of the like, the living room, okay, cool. It has beautiful architecture and a great sound system, but that's a passive experience. It's not making you better. But a gym, your kids are watching you in there, it's like, wow. Like, what an impactful thing. Ian, those that
Mark D. Williams 39:46
have been listening to curious builder podcast, you know how much I love the contractor coalition Summit. It's been the single biggest force multiplier in my business over 21 years. We're excited to announce again that we're coming back to Chicago, November 7 through the 10th on. The details can be found at the contractor, coalition summit.com, and under the promo code for a $2,500 discount, type in curious builder we'll see in Chicago. I think it's funny, I was thinking about the sauna. So again, my name is a covid Sauna. I did like susugi Bond burn siding on the outside, nice. It's kind of like the stereotypical it's like a meeting place. So I'll send out a text. I have a delayer on my I decided to go electric on mine, just because it's attached to my house. I didn't want it to deal with all the wood burning stuff, even though I prefer that. And I just kids go to bed at eight. I'm in that sauna by 815 and I'll send out a text, usually an hour before, at like, 715 and I'll say to like, five of my neighbor, get buddies. And I'll be like, hey, sauna is going on, and they don't always come but it ends up being like, I'll read the paper, I'll I try to use it for quiet, maybe meditative time. Or the neighbors come over, we chat about whatever. Or sometimes I've literally done sauna parties, like, I'll plan it like, hey, next Friday, who wants to come over for sauna? And like, if you give people a few more days, I have yet to not have four or five people, and if not big. I mean, my son is tiny. It's probably five by seven, five by eight. I mean, you fit four people five if you want to get squishy. It's kind of like everyone, I don't know, it's become, like this clearance of information and therapy and, man, it's you just, yeah, I don't know. There's something magical
Kali Sudbrook 41:16
about it. Well, it's like sauna is like the gym. It's like entrepreneurship. You're doing something hard, right? And you're getting better as a result. So it's hardening you, it's making you better able to deal with other difficult things throughout your day. So it primes your body, it primes your emotions, all the things.
Mark D. Williams 41:32
So I think where I wanted to go with this, and I've stumbled in this question quite poorly. But like so you've originally, when you think of design, and when you think of what people want for fitness. It's, are you runner? Are you lifter? Are you rower? I mean, there's 100 different ways to get you elevated. Aerobically, we won't go into all that. And then obviously the strength training. There's a number of different ways to do that. But now the wellness space is like more space you have to design for especially everyone is all gung ho about cold tubs. And for about five, six years, it was the latest rage. It's still the latest rage. It's still the latest rage, but it seems like some of the science has kind of changed around a little bit, meaning, like, when you use it and it's not, and
Kali Sudbrook 42:07
I'm finding for sure about, oh yeah, and how it affects your hormones and things like that. So like, for example, if you have someone who's looking to hypertrophy, which means to build muscle, cold plunging is probably not the most ideal situation for that, because it actually limits those types of hormones that go through your bloodstream after a lift, and so it's timing it properly. And I think what the science is showing nowadays, because back when I was at UC Irvine, I went to, I don't know if you've heard of XPT, but it's basically Larry Hamilton came out with this whole breathing technique, contrast therapy class, and a few of my colleagues and I went to it, and it was really awesome, but that was when I think it really took off, the plunging, the sauna, the breath work, all of these things really sort of just came up out of nowhere based off of Wim Hof stuff. So there's like, sort of this thing where it hits the mainstream fitness industry, but then it takes some time to trickle into the rest of the mainstream population. So I forgot what I where I was even going with that. But bottom line, it's like, there's definitely opportunity for lots to take place within the contrast therapy and things like that one
Mark D. Williams 43:17
I was mainly coming at it from you have to design around this space, because that's not space you can easily sort of retrofit something into. That's where, like, no remodeling or additions and new homes have a huge advantage, because you can properly sort of space it out. And going back to our earlier part about natural light or space, like, Sure, you could get all those things in a small space, but it's kind of, it just kind of doesn't feel right, feels clunky, it doesn't feel you're kind of missing out on some of the Zen state if you can't have proper separation.
Kali Sudbrook 43:48
That's a lot of mistakes that people make here is they try and DIY it, and they don't realize, okay, for the type of sauna that you want, for example, whether it's a custom built or prefab, you have to have a certain space on your electrical panel. You've got to have all these things set up before you can even start to unbox or install this thing. And they go, Oh, I didn't realize it was that in depth. It's like, well, yeah, like, you don't even have a space big enough to put it here. So it's all these things that people just sort of overlook, or they just don't know, right? So it's a lot of, again, going back to client education, and not to say, like I'm trying to dash their hopes and dreams. But hey, you thought it was going to go here, but have you thought of putting it over here? There is natural light or whatever?
Mark D. Williams 44:28
From a sales point of view, you've got a number of avenues you can go. And you're going your old contacts, being a program director, and you know, the people that are asking because you have a the people that are already engaging with you already are injured, most likely interested in into fitness. I would assume not many of them are newbies, correct? No, no, no, right, exactly. So they're already purists that already they probably already belong to a gym. Would be my I'm guessing, building out a stereotype of, oh well, by the
Kali Sudbrook 44:56
way, they own a gym.
Mark D. Williams 44:58
Yeah, oh, man, you. Really? Yeah, that's great. Be like, well, what's wrong with the gym? I want one at my house as well. Yeah, what are the main drivers for having one at your house? I mean, for these professionals that either have the space or have bigger spaces, what seems to be the main draw to build out such amazing spaces at their home,
Kali Sudbrook 45:18
time is always going to be number one, right? So I don't want to have to drive to the gym and waste 25 minutes each way or whatever. I don't have to, want to have to wait for equipment when I'm there, it's dirty, it's smelly, whatever. And so there's that aspect, then there's the can obviously the convenience. I mean, that's like a low hanging fruit. But for a lot of my gym owner clients, they just want a space where it's like they're in work mode at work, at their gym, right? They don't want to train. People are bothering them. They're talking to them, and which is great. You want your members to love you, right? But it's finding a space that's going back to, like, when you and I go to the gym, it's our sanctuary, and that's our space. But if you're constantly being bombarded by what do I have to do next? Oh, this thing on the ceiling, it's dropping down. I got to call someone about that, like they can't focus and be truly present in that moment. So it's just creating again, that that sanctuary again for them.
Mark D. Williams 46:09
So that's I've never thought about that that's very interesting, because you're right, like, I don't like to work personally at home. I like to work. That's why I have an office. I like to and I didn't always have an office, but I like to separate my home from my work. I never thought about that way, but I wonder if there's not something specifically to gym cracker, if I'm wrong, but like, I've seen, like, there's lots I Lifetime Fitness is where I'll train a lot and if I'm not at home. But it's funny, like I find low hanging fruit that I can get an hour of, maybe work or reading or some time at home and just work out in my home gym. Now, I do know that I probably work harder at the gym. I'd like once I'm there, I prefer being at the gym, but it's that, you know, 15 minute drive, which isn't very far, honestly, but it adds up. And also, I always get the kids ready at seven o'clock, so I'm like, if I don't leave, first thing if I delay anything. And it's, again, we're trying to get rid of barriers to entry. And so it's like, how quickly can you get into your routine? Because once your heart rate is spiked, like you're in it like, it's kind of like, once you start working out, you feel great. It's you don't, not every time you start a workout. Do you feel great? But like, once your heart rate you
Kali Sudbrook 47:12
did it, when you're done, 100% Yeah. But that's one thing that like for my designs, what I try and do is like, yeah, you can jam it and cram it with all this equipment. But if my, one of my cornerstones of the design of the of a fitness space is if you have to move something in order to use that other thing, then that's a poor design automatically, because the chances of you getting motivated enough to move said thing to be able to use the other thing is very, very low when you look at like, the habits of humans and like, inherently, we are lazy individuals. Like, I mean, that's just human nature, right? That's not like you or me, or it's just, that's how it is, right? So if it becomes hard to do, people won't do it. And if it's uncomfortable and ugly and you don't feel inspired when you're in it, well, again, chances are you're not going to exercise or sauna or a cold plunge or whatever.
Mark D. Williams 48:05
Walk me through that about layout. Are there any certain layouts that would sort of like when you open up a door, when you come into the space, however you come into the space, do you organize equipment in a certain way that
Kali Sudbrook 48:18
no, because it's going to depend on the type of equipment. So a lot of like I've seen designers put a squat rack in, like those Murphy racks or whatever, they didn't factor in the width of the bar. So a bar is 80 inches, the squat rack is 48 so they've only accounted for 48 inches, and then you're like, oh my gosh, it's crashing into everything that you're trying to use. So it's just little things like that that they don't think about. And I can walk into a space and be like, someone designed this space with zero exercise experience, because it doesn't flow, like there's things crashing, like I'm trying to lift a kettlebell and I'm like, jamming into something else, and you're like, get your exiting the treadmill weird and stepping on something behind you and tweaking your ankle. So it's like, I can walk into a hotel gym, a commercial gym, and be like, yeah, they not that they didn't know what they were doing. Like, the space might look beautiful and it might, I don't know, have a cool vibe, but it's like, not laid out in a way that makes sense for Exercise and
Mark D. Williams 49:16
Movement. I mean, yeah, movements, the key one is it, is there a difference? I'm just thinking about the difference between men and women. Like, I'd love to get your point of view, having been in the gym and seeing the behaviors of like, I feel like, every time I go the club, it's like a social experiment. It like, it's so fun to watch people like how they interact. It's like, it's honestly, that's why the one I mean, other than getting a workout, like watching people, it's amazing. Like, I would love to work. I would, I should bring, actually, this would be a hilarious, like, bit. It'd be fun to bring a psychiatrist, psychologist, a psychiatrist, and like, like, three of your friends, and then, like, a program director, like you, and then you'd all be on mics talking about, like people behind it. It's so fun to, like, get everyone's read on, like, the behaviors, because you see the craziest thing. Things and the funniest, I mean, just the wildest thing. But we're we could go for hours about this, back off of it. What I want to ask you is about like, my like, the difference of, if you can make any observations about the difference between men and women in a workout space, in in building it in a home, like what you're doing compared to like, I look at the behaviors of like, my wife, for instance, she would much rather work out at home. It's more private. She doesn't feel like people are judging or looking or any of those types of things. But then I even going back to your comment about your the professionals that you coach. So like, I was at the lifetime the other day, and like, two of the trainers that I recognize, the one who was a woman who trains a lot of people, I noticed she had a hat on. She was wearing, like, baggy clothes, like she did not want to be sort of recognized or seen. And I was thinking, and then, but the man was wearing, like the spaghetti top. And these guys built like, Mr. Atlas for one thing, so he's probably saying, like, I'm working out so I can also probably get more clients. Anyway, where I'm going with this big information is like, what are the differences? I know it's very individualized, and that's why you have to interview them. But are there any general stereotypes between laying out custom gyms for men and women and even families like how? Any stories along those lines?
Kali Sudbrook 51:11
I don't think it's so much like differences between men and women, although I will say that traditionally, men are the ones who are lifting the weights, and women are the ones doing Pilates and yoga. And so I don't know if it's people have just been pushed into that norm or like that sort of box. And so, for example, I just did a gym where the husband wanted the squat rack and all the kettlebells and all the things, and then the wife wanted a reformer. So we arranged it in such a way that they each had their space, but it looked uniform and coexisted in the same space. But then that way, it's like they're getting what they need from the space, even though it's literally two separate zones or areas, right? But I don't know that it's like a woman thing versus male. It might be. I don't know. It's just everyone's fitness, like Journey is so different. And I think just in general, women don't feel comfortable in a gym. Like, I've never personally had that problem, because it's like, Well, shit, I'm in a male dominated world, and I'm just going to own it right ironically. Now I am too, but so that's kind of funny, but it's like, not a thing for me, so probably not the best person to speak for on women's behalf, because I'm like, I want to get into a gym and I want to crush it. So I think that's more of like a men's mentality. So I'm,
Mark D. Williams 52:27
I mean, I was just curious, because I agree with you. I mean, honestly, it's funny, my wife, for Christmas two years ago, asked for a squat rack. It wasn't nice. It was my wife, in fact, all the stuff, because I would just probably go to the gym otherwise. But the only thing that was mine was all the kettlebells. Yeah, it was covid. You couldn't go anywhere. And my cousin, who was big, in fact, I never really lifted weights. I was more of an endurance athlete and a sport specific and my it was all kettlebells. So I'm like, that doesn't take up any space. Heck, I do all in the snow. It doesn't matter. And but it was my wife, so every stereotype seems to be shot down right, like my wife wanted the squat rack. And I actually do think, and I'm think it's great. There's been such a focus on strength and longevity, of bone density, and all the podcasts everyone listens to now, or at least you and I do is, like, talking about the prevalence of strength, where for so long, it was on my I mean, you still have to do what you like, and sometimes get pushed. But, like, I tell people all the time, like, if you hate running, like, don't run, find a different there's 100 other things you could do, like, find something that you enjoy, because it's not sustainable if you don't. And I think that's true of business. There are so many. I mean, that's why you got into what you're doing, is it's not sustainable to do something that you don't find rewarding, but if you find something rewarding, I bet you can find a way to make it sustainable
Kali Sudbrook 53:39
Exactly. Yeah. And that's the thing. It's like, I'm not going to be building kitchens and bathrooms. First of all, I came late to the game. I'm not going to be the best kitchen and bathroom remodeler or builder out there, but it's like, I can damn well create a badass gym. So you have to own what you're good at and focus in. I mean, we talked about niching already, so yeah, that's totally a thing. But yeah, going back to the women strength movement is huge right now. I wish it had been 20 years ago. When I was a personal trainer an undergrad, I was telling all my clients, like, you need to lift. It's listing out all the things, but it's unless it's like an emotional response, like they're not going to do it because, oh, I don't want to get big. And it was all the common excuses. But now I think women are starting to see the light of especially the women over 40, kind of crowd that's like, this is why you need this ASAP. I mean, so that's great. I'm happy to see that.
Mark D. Williams 54:33
I think it's bigger than that, actually, because I think it's culturally I think, I mean, you look at the brands I'm thinking of, like Athleta and title nine. And I think fit, being fit, is the new sexy, right? I think it's culturally different to your point, like you were a trainer, like it used to be that, let's say, stereotypically, women in particular, didn't want to get, quote, bigger or stronger, because they viewed it.
Kali Sudbrook 54:55
You don't have the hormones to get bigger. I'm like, want to shake them. Like, like, I've been lifting for, like, my whole life now, it's like, I'm still skinny, right?
Mark D. Williams 55:08
Just being strong anyway. I just think it takes a while for things to change. And I think that's why those stats we shared earlier now that sort of the US culture. I mean, we're the, one of the biggest buying Well, we are the biggest buying market on the planet, which isn't always a good thing, but from a trend standpoint, like, if you're a builder, listening to this like and whether you're into the wellness thing, like you and I are or not, like your business better be, because if you're not, another builder, another architect, another designer, will be. And considering what the client we have to respond to, what our clients want and where things are going, this is no different than any other. I won't even call it a trend. I think it's bigger than that. I think it's bigger than that. It's much bigger than a trend.
Kali Sudbrook 55:49
Well, you said you asked me earlier, like, is the demand there? And it's like, to be honest, not yet, but it's going there because every builders plans these days has either a flex space or some sort of fitness or wellness space. So it's like, that's where everything is going, and it's not going away.
Mark D. Williams 56:06
I What i We didn't touch on it that much, but you had mentioned something about a way to interact memories in the sauna and working out with your kids, especially as they get older, they get into sports. Like I have a good friend of mine whose kids are into football, and he gave up his gym membership, and they did a bigger gym at their home, and he trains with his kids. But how cool is that? Like, your kids are granted. His kids are, like, squatting like 400 pounds, and he's squatting like 200 Right? Like, just, I mean, their legs are like the size of my torso. But the point of it is, like, you can do it with your kids, which is super neat. And we were just in a shout out to the galley. It's a kitchen appliance deal. It's really cool. It's in Chicago. I saw that Merchandise Mart, but their point was, is, it was, it's an expensive array in the kitchen. But his comment was, it's, it's experience with your family. It's memories. It's cooking together. It's changing the way they interact in such a fundamental space. And I feel like the way that you are designing health and wellness spaces for the family is more so than just one person. Your kids see it, your spouse sees it. You see it, your community sees it. Or, like, group fitness, I always thought it'd be kind of cool in a development, like even a neighborhood. Like, how cool would it be if I had four or five neighbors and like, you had the sign on the cold plunge, like they had that above ground, let's say hockey rink. If you're in Minnesota, maybe the other neighbor had a sport court for the gym. Like, you don't have to have all of it, like a wellness collective, like, yeah. I mean, how cool would it be to have a planned community where it's, like, there's, like, the facility in the middle that everyone shares resources for? That'd be cool. So cool that'd be
Kali Sudbrook 57:35
Yeah. I mean, trust me, that's on the radar. I mean, I'm thinking of like, wellness retreats popping up all over. Now that's a big thing. I mean, like, people are just taking these cabins up in Big Bear and turning it into a place where people actually want to go, and it has all the bells and whistles, it's got all the wellness stuff. And I think there's going to be a shift just, not just with homes, but commercial spaces are now putting saunas in that didn't have one before. I know that's a lot of places have always had saunas, but it's just the push is going that direction in all facets, which is really exciting. And so, yeah, the demand is going to be there. It already is, but it's just going to get bigger and bigger. So I feel very grateful to be in this space, because I feel like there's something to it, and it's only going to get bigger.
Mark D. Williams 58:19
What I like about your knowledge is that your knowledge is is it makes unique, and it's also specialized, like, to your point, like there's plenty of people out there that know how to build and not that you don't, but like your expertise compared to someone who's been doing it for 21 years, but their ex their expert. It's your knowledge base is way scarcer than this, then the knowledge base of a general contractor, like, I mean, you have a, you have done it for decades as a program director, plus all the schooling of actually doing it on top of that, right? And you're like, oh, yeah, by the way, I'm also a contractor. So who do you want to design this space for you? It's kind of a no brainer. You're, I would think, yeah. I mean, for sure, what are you actually two questions for you before we wrap up. One is, did you go to, were you at the International builder show the last year or two? Or have you been,
Kali Sudbrook 59:09
I was the last two years I've actually been on stage at the craft technique zone, so, and then I'll be there again this year on the craft technique zone in Orlando.
Mark D. Williams 59:17
So my question is this, I saw saunas the last two years, I don't know if I saw maybe Kohler's cold tub and maybe one other I saw. I never saw any weight stuff, anything. I was on our stage, actually, yeah, but you brought it. But that's my point, you brought it. So here's my question, how soon before the wellness space wakes up and says, Hey, we should take a trip to because you have all you have. I think there's 800,000 contractors the United States, right? Roughly, that industry is massive. We're the first line of design and getting into people's homes. How soon before you think they're going to wake up and be like, hey, we need to get in front. Of these people because they're specking it. Do you think that's coming? Have you have any hint if that's like, going to make its way? Because it feels like you are that it's just going to pop the top?
Kali Sudbrook 1:00:11
Well, okay, this year in the new American home, there's going to be some really cool stuff. I came a little bit late to the party where they were already sort of, like, most of the way through design. So they're like, we can't bring you on this year, but I'm in discussions for the pre or the following years, so I think people are just seeing it so much now that it's going to become a no brainer. But it obviously it takes some time and education to get it to that point, because people get stuck in their ways, and people think that, well, if I add this, or if I do this other facet of fitness or wellness on my jobs. It's gonna do something to my margins. Or, I don't know, I don't know what people are thinking,
Mark D. Williams 1:00:45
but yeah, it's gonna do something to your margins. You're gonna make more money. Wake up. Wake up. People, I agree your instincts are right. You're just thinking about the wrong
Kali Sudbrook 1:00:52
way, yeah, but they think it's gonna detract from it instead of add to it. And it's like quite, quite the opposite. It's gonna definitely add to your scope. It's going to add to your bottom line.
Mark D. Williams 1:01:02
So that's how it goes. Well, it's been awesome to have you on Oh, my last question, what are you most excited for the rest of this
Kali Sudbrook 1:01:08
year? Man, you put this in the notes, and I think I'm just excited for going into year four and fixing everything I've done wrong the previous four years, like, just for continuing, like, I was always the person, like, I had a boss, and she was always like, let's not reinvent the wheel. And I was like, no, like, I want to reinvent the wheel. And I wanted to, like, shake these people, right? So it's like, just reinventing what I'm doing. So I'm getting better and better, and I have, I've planned out my year. I think I told you in the email, it's like, I've planned out my year. Have everything locked in and just so excited. Just execute every single month and see, wow. Okay, I accomplished that. Cool. What's next? So I just, I love progress. I love making myself a better iteration, making the business better. So, yeah, I love it.
Mark D. Williams 1:01:55
Well, thank you for coming on the podcast. Appreciate it. Everything in the show notes, and you heard it here. First you're launching your consulting page, and I'm your first client. When this is done, I'm sending you my plans to me. So who's we're going to talk about the space and Yeah, bring it
Kali Sudbrook 1:02:09
on. Thanks, Mark. All right.
Mark D. Williams 1:02:12
We've had the podcast now for two and a half, almost three years now, and we have a consulting page, one to one consulting you can book my time for one hour. Perhaps you've heard a guess where you like one of the topics. Maybe you want an introduction to some of the guests that I've had on. Perhaps you want to talk about branding or marketing, or anything that we've covered on the podcast over the last two and a half years. You can book a time at curious builder podcast.com thanks for tuning in the curious builder podcast. If you like this episode, do us a favor. Share it with three other business owners. The best way that we can spread what we're doing is by word of mouth, and with your help, we can continue to help other curious builders expand their business. Please share it with your friends. Like and review online, and thanks again for tuning in.
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