Episode 118 - Wilderness, Wellness & Workouts: What We Learned in Zion
#118 | Bootcamp Guests | Bootcamp Recap | Wilderness, Wellness & Workouts: What We Learned in Zion
Zion Boot Camp was part retreat, part reset, and all about real growth. Tune in for a candid group recap of what went down—morning kettlebell circuits, canyon hikes, Jeffersonian firepit talks, and what it really means to lead a life that supports both wellness and business success.
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The Curious Builder Bootcamp is an immersive retreat at Under Canvas Zion, set in the breathtaking desert Southwest near Zion National Park. It’s an experience built to push you outside your routine, help you reconnect with yourself, and create the space needed for real growth.
This retreat is about self-reliance, mental clarity, and challenging yourself, without the burnout. You’ll step away from distractions, engage in intentional movement, and leave feeling stronger, sharper, and ready for what’s next.
For an intentional, hands-on experience, this retreat is limited to 20 people.
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Abbie Arnold 00:00
Ian, there comes a point where, when you're running a business, it just becomes your whole life, especially when you don't have kids, it is our life. And just to learn that we were off of our phone for three days and the world continued, and just putting yourself first is okay, putting your needs and taking care of yourself is the number one priority today.
Mark D. Williams 00:32
The curious builder podcast, we had a recap of the gears builder boot camp out in Zion National Park. So we had seven builders on the podcast just giving their highs and lows of the time out in Zion, kind of some of the unexpected moments of delight, some of the things that they took back to apply to their personal life as well as their business. I hope you enjoy. And without further ado, here's the curious builder recap of Zion National Park in boot camp. Welcome to curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today is our Monday episode, and we have a special treat for you today. We're gonna do the Zion boot camp recap, and I've got about 70% of all the builders that were there, and I thought it'd be really fun to just go around and just discuss what happened at Zion boot camp, why we did it. And for those that aren't aware of what it is, you can go to the website, curious builder podcast.com, check under retreats, under boot camp. And you can see this happened middle of May, out in Zion National Park. We had 12 builders from around the country get together to celebrate wellness and do some different things. So without further ado, why don't we go around the horn? Okay, why don't you guys introduce yourself, and we'll start with just give us a little bit about your company. And then the first question for each person will be, why did you want to go to boot camp? Go
Kevin Arnold 01:44
ahead, Kevin. Kevin Arnold with Ka builders is my wife, Abby, right here. We're in Columbus, Ohio, and right now we're actually recording from Florida. We have a project down here as a result of the hurricane Helene last fall, and why I wanted to attend back in high school my freshman and sophomore year, I actually did a project with Habitat, where we went down to Appalachia and we built houses for a week, and we were completely off grid there, and there was a nice camaraderie of just being with a bunch of guys that went to school with and the relaxation of being able to go off the grid and have nothing to worry about. But what's exactly in front of you at the moment, I
Abbie Arnold 02:29
wanted to go to boot camp for almost a little reset. Very rarely are you off the grid, no phones, no technology, with like minded people, and I think that sense of community was really what I was craving, and I feel like I accomplished that at boot camp. How
Brad Robinson 02:43
about you, Brad? So yeah, I'm Brad Robinson down in Atlanta, Georgia. I went for a number of reasons, I think, for the community. Number one, I definitely have loved embracing sort of the culture that is the curious builder. And it really, you know, to kind of take it to the next level, from the physicality perspective, go out with people that are like minded, who wanted to be active, explore this kind of different territory. I mean, I've been to that part of the country before, but to be able to go and experience it untapped, you know, just off the grid, you know, and just sort of define some intentions. I think that was really what I wanted to be there for. And I came back feeling, you know, just super recharged and reset.
Spencer Nield 03:31
I'm Spencer Neal. I'm director of operations for a Finer Touch construction. And the reason I went to boot camp was because I caught wind that Brad Levitt could not attend. And I have gone to a collective before, and started following mark, and so I just had to drop some hints, and I just wanted to go because boot camp sounded fun, but also difficult. And it was at Zion, which I've driven by 100 times and never gone. So that was also attractive to me. It probably didn't
Mark D. Williams 04:04
hurt that I got to go to Arizona, like two months ago to see my brother in law, and I convinced you to run Camelback Mountain with me. So you were going, no matter what Spencer I was behind the scenes making sure someone from AFD came.
Mark D. Williams 04:17
That was fun, too. Gutelli,
Michael Gutielli 04:21
hey, I'm Michael gutelli, owner of Clark and Aldean residential design build firm in Plymouth, Michigan, just based outside of Detroit. I've been friends with Mark for for a few years now. Same with Brad. And you know, when I saw this event was happening, it was a little outside of my comfort zone, being away from my family. Do a lot of traveling with them. So that was that was a challenge for me, but really the coming out of an injury, being able to go to boot camp and push my limits, from a physical standpoint, but also from a mental standpoint, being without technology and just being surrounded by like minded people. I mean, Brad hit it on on the nose. Community is amazing, and you have to invest time in it to. The most out of it. I'm Lance
Lance Anderson 05:01
Anderson with, admit, one systems, one of the vendors involved in the trip. And like, selfishly, I couldn't, couldn't say no to to a trip to an epic place like Zion without even knowing what was all included in it. But once I learned more about it, looked forward to getting my butt kicked. And I think it was already said like minded like meeting like minded people was something I saw after and definitely was honored on this trip.
Mark D. Williams 05:32
For those that are listening or tuning in and you were kind of wondering what this is about, I can go back episode or two. I did a 20 minute recap that just kind of broke down what we did each day. I won't go over it again in detail, but essentially, everyone got off the airplane, checked in their phones. There was no phones, no alcohol, and two day workouts in a beautiful national park. But I think one of the things that for me, the reason I why boot camp, for me maybe I'll go as Mark Williams, the person is also the person that came up with this, was I wanted, there's different aspects of my life that, you know, being outside adventure like minded people, there's all these different parts that make up who I am as an individual. I thought, You know what? Maybe there's other people out there like me. And turns out, there's quite a few. And so I was like, I'm gonna put this up. And, you know, Morgan Molitor shout out to her. She always says, Your vibe attracts your tribe. And so this was kind of a Linus test for me. Is like, Would anybody come? I knew I had a videographer, and I knew Addison Bain, our trainer, was going to come and it was just gonna be the three of us. Brad Robinson, he said yes before he even knew what was going on. So I knew there was going to be at least four of us. I sort of strongly coerced Lance into coming before he knew what was going so there was definitely some tomfoolery behind scenes, but that I wanted to fight the stereotype that builders are and our community are fat, lazy, alcoholic, hairy, flannel wearing individuals. And I say that sort of jokingly, but also seriously, like there is a lot of athletes, and gutelli knows this. This all started at contractor coalition in Huntington Beach two and a half years ago. I went for a run one morning with Caleb McDonald from Canada, and we're out running at 530 in the morning, and I come back to the gym, and you know, Michael and Dee are in the gym working out. I'm like, there's actually a lot of people that care about their health and wellness. And so those were just the early seeds that led to this. So one of the things I want to ask all of you, and maybe we'll just keep that order, to keep some order in this, is what was your favorite memory, and we'll just start with that. Kevin, why don't you start with what was your one of your favorite memories, or a memorable moment that you remember from
Kevin Arnold 07:21
boot camp? Yeah, memorable moment was when we did that rock with the piece of equipment around. I thought I was gonna die about halfway through that, and ended up finishing strong and being able to sprint through and felt really good. Messed me up for the rest of the trip, but it was worth it.
Abbie Arnold 07:40
I'm gonna say candy nearing that is so for the guys that were up there with me, like I was terrified, like I was shaking, like I was so nervous, that is just so out of my comfort zone, and that's not something I would normally want to do on my own. So kind of overcoming that mental aspect of that was a really cool once in a lifetime experience for
Mark D. Williams 08:00
me, hopefully not once in a lifetime. Hopefully you do that. I don't know if I would want
Abbie Arnold 08:04
to voluntarily do that again, but I checked it
Brad Robinson 08:07
off. I don't know how you distill it to one singular thing that's my favorite. I don't know if it's a couple like I've talked about this at least six or seven different times, to many different people. The parts of it that I kind of come back to are definitely like, the cool, run around with cups in our hands and filling the gallon up, and that was a lot of fun. But it's like, then, then, do I really not say it's like the path opening up at observation point and seeing angels? It is that? Not it? And then it's like, I don't know. Or is it the quiet at night after we left the campfire like this really amazing to be that quiet. So only because, only because
Mark D. Williams 08:51
a lot of people don't know. Do you want to briefly explain our water challenge? Brad,
Brad Robinson 08:55
yeah, so I mean, this was for a guy who's pretty competitive. This one really nailed it for me, right? So I think that Addison did a great job putting us together. We walk up the hill to his tent, where all the equipment stored, and you know, you've got pick your poison between dumbbells and all the stuff that's sitting there, slam balls. But nope, not this time we're gonna there's two gallons of water, and we're like, Okay, what's happening here? Just a bunch of solo cups and two gallons of water. We had no idea what we're about to get into, but nonetheless, Addison says, Okay, great. Everybody. Get two cups in their hands. Fill up. You know, here's your team, whatever. So there's like, four of us on everyone's team. You have two solo cups in your hand. We fill each one up to the brim with water. And he's like, okay, run this trail that's 1.3 miles long, and whoever gets to the end of this with the most water back into the gallon jug wins. And I just want to say it does feel nice to be on the winning team. Just to set the record straight here, I was very selfless. I drank none of that water. I might have spilled a little. But I didn't drink any of it, just to say so Team Two, one, just to let everyone know, spoiler alert, there's some
Mark D. Williams 10:07
sour grapes here. I'm still in therapy about this. Yeah, are you carry mark? Well, to be clear, we had a different strategy than you. You guys read Aesop's fable of the Taurus and the hare. We decided to go. I decided to go really fast without consulting my team, classic Alpha behavior, I just ran as fast as I could with one cup, emptied it, ran back to the gutelli and emptied him and Kevin's cup, and then ushered him, whipped them both past your guys. So we did get all our horses in at the end, but definitely there was no time bonus, which I really feel quite cheated about. But anyway, yeah,
Brad Robinson 10:39
we Team Two. Did have that discussion before we all ran off, so you might have missed on that one. You
Mark D. Williams 10:46
guys are better team players than me. Clearly, you're better at scaling a business. Brad, how about you? Spencer, what's, what are some of your memorable moments? I
Spencer Nield 10:53
think two things for me that I remember the most is just the car rides. We had to go into town. We'll just call it to get dinner. We went into the park. So those are car rides, just listening to the conversations and being part of the conversations, but just listening to all of the great minds that were at this camp, and just gleaning information and seeing their personalities and because everyone's talking about their interests and some of its business, some of it's not. And then for me, the challenge, the one we did, where it was the 1.3 mile, you just pick a weight, which either kettlebell or dumbbell, and I picked the 20 pound weight, and we had to do that 1.3 mile trail run. Addison set us up good telling us this is your last thing you have to do. Give it everything you got. And so I took that like, Okay, anything that I've sandbagged, I'm gonna use all my energy right now. And, like, it was just do the best you can. It's not a competition. Of course, I was trying to catch you, Mark, and then didn't quite catch you, but I remember giving everything I could just to get to finish line. And then Addison saying, Okay, you have two minutes drop your weight. You got to go back and run it in reverse. And that was just, mentally, that was really tough. But I just also, at the same time, I loved it, because I'm like, okay, touche, Addison, like, let's go. That was fun.
Brad Robinson 12:19
I thought we beat your time. By the way, beat your time on the way back.
Mark D. Williams 12:22
Yes, which everybody did. Every single person negative split we I think one person was at zero. I think Marty hit was dead even, and it was from zero to 22 seconds. That was pretty impressive to me. I like what Addison did. There are three things. One was, you always have more to give than you think you do. Two, how quickly can you reset a new goal? Which, obviously, as business owners, we have to do this all the time. But you know, physically, you're exhausted and you're like, quick, how quickly can be? Like, hey, I can get my breathing under control in 120 seconds to go back at this. And then my favorite part was when we started running past you guys, and we're like, dead focused. Like, at what point were the people that saw people running back at them? Did it start to dawn on them. Like, wait a minute, this isn't over.
Brad Robinson 13:04
We're in the front of the pack. It was very quick. We caught we caught it pretty fast. We just
Lance Anderson 13:10
thought Mark was being a hero again and and was running back for some other people's weights. But then when I saw the second person run by, I was like, Oh, guys, we're doing this again.
Brad Robinson 13:24
How about you get past Mark's driving? At some point we have to get to
Michael Gutielli 13:28
that. Well, I mean, the car rides, that's actually my first comment. I got three. I mean, Mark's Mark's driving was spectacular. We had probably, like, top top five chauffeurs of all time, and I know that when we took the when we took the Tahoe back, that was the last road traveled before that Tahoe gets sold to a consumer. So I definitely retired. Definitely feel for whoever cuts the check for that one. Those shots are gonna have to be replaced a bit. I'm just kidding. You're driving was spectacular. I think two things, from a fitness perspective, I really enjoyed the first day's workout with the kettle ball, and the ball slams being paired up on the yoga and meditation concrete platform. That was fun. That was just a good way to open it up. I'm big and lifting and that that kind of hit home for me. It was still a challenge, without a doubt. But I think the second piece for me was early mornings, going down for coffee and sitting around around the fire, just whoever joined, whenever they joined. And the conversations, individual conversations, is sparked from that, whether it was in the morning or throughout the day, there's a lot of time that you spend with individuals in the group, and you're not just always talking to the same person, and I think it allowed some vulnerability for us, and allowed us to get to know each other on a on a more personal level, we all know each other well. From a business perspective, we follow each other, we support what each other are doing, but getting that connection from a from a personal standpoint, just really tightens the relationship and bonds the community in a different way. I enjoyed it. Yeah.
Lance Anderson 15:00
Uh, secretly, I think Spencer's favorite part was the car ride, because he was in the back, like getting air most of the time,
Spencer Nield 15:10
reclined. Yeah,
Lance Anderson 15:13
I have to go back to Canyon earring. It's something I actually haven't done. And what was wild for me was the fact that, you know, like, we have a warm up on, like a 45 degree slant, that was, like, not even six feet, you know, and then the next move is, like, straight down, like blind entrance to a canyon, I don't know how far, and I'm like, Okay, I have a lot of experience with exposure, like, I'm not so comfortable with heights, but, but I'm around it a lot. And I was like, this was definitely testing me for sure, especially with our guide, who I'm sure we were in safe hands, but had some character to him. I guess
Mark D. Williams 16:00
his best quote when we asked him later, Lance, I don't know if the rest of the team heard this, but Lance did. Somebody asked him. Forget the thing. His name was Jimmy, right. What led you to Ian? He was a series of bad decisions.
16:13
When your nickname is crash, you know,
Speaker 2 16:16
you gotta wonder, in a way, he could deliver it. He
Mark D. Williams 16:21
was good. I think for I think for me, my most memorable part was it's was the Jeffersonian dinners, or, sorry, the Jefferson Ian conversations I had. Someone had said that to me in passing, and I only thought of it like the day of while we were landing, I was like, I got to work this in and for those that don't know what a Jefferson Ian dinner is, someone had mentioned this, that Thomas Jefferson used to do this back when he was president, but you'd have 14 people at a table, and rather than having all these side conversations, you'd ask one question, and only one person could ask at a time, but everyone in the group around the fire got to answer at night, and I really just enjoyed the depth that everyone was willing to share and just being super authentic. And as you mentioned, being vulnerable. The car rides, honestly, like Spencer, were some of my favorite conversations. We had a lot of time in the car to and from the airport, but also when we pulled an audible and said, Hey, we're not waiting in these lines anymore. Ian was way busier than I thought it was going to be. So when Lance is like, we can get out of here by this hour route. We got out, and I just really enjoyed everyone. Just again, the talking, it was just really, I forgot how much, how enjoyable just a road trip is with seven people in the car heckling each other, talking about all kinds of stuff. And we certainly talked about business. For me, the most enjoyable stuff was the non business stuff.
Mark D. Williams 17:40
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Lance Anderson 19:27
Man, I can start with that. I tend to be more of a cardio guy. I'm always on a bike or I'm running or swimming or whatever. I don't do a lot of dynamic lifting. I've never even been properly shown how to lift, so it's not part of my routine. And working with Addison, and in getting some of these techniques on, like how to specifically use a kettlebell, I was shocked on how much of a workout you can get with just like a simple weight. I actually was going to say I ordered and I got Addison's a. Advice on which ones, because he was very adamant, like, make sure you get a good set. So I sent him a link yesterday and ordered a whole set of kettlebell kettlebells that will be delivered here in a couple days. But, but yeah, like learning those movements and adding it hopefully to my routine, I think it's something that's important that I've been looking to do. I know that as we age, like lifting I think is even more vital, if I'm not mistaken, in terms of keeping your bone density, and especially when you apply the dynamic movements to it too. I don't know that was for me, was hard, but also one of the more rewarding things I got out of the trip, too,
Michael Gutielli 20:37
I'll go next. The cardio for me was just a challenge. I've started many times coming off an injury, not being able to run or bike or do any major cardio for eight months. I was a little concerned about it, but doctors cleared it. It was just my lower back was literally shooting pain of both sides, and it was that having to fight through it, knowing that I'm I'm good, I'm healthy, I'm safe, I'm not going to injure myself. This is just part of getting back into it, and I knowing that I could do it, actually got me fired up when I came back and I texted Lance, I think the day after we got back, on Monday, he was speaking so highly of rowing, and specifically the peloton rower, I believe, on one of our car rides. And I ordered it Monday, the Monday that we got back and let them know right away. So it's in the basement. We expanded our gym foot. Yeah, it's exciting again. I lift a lot, and it's being able to add that cardio in the mix is is going to be great going into summer. So I'm excited
Lance Anderson 21:32
that That reminds me, I got to add you to my peloton group. Now,
21:37
that's right, how
Mark D. Williams 21:38
about you? Spencer,
Spencer Nield 21:40
for me, it was the kettlebell workout that first day. I just had not done that before, even though I have a kettlebell at home and I've done a few swings, but I learned that I was doing it wrong, so just learning the right technique and and I don't know, I think my hamstrings are still tight from doing those RDL, like kettlebell swings, and then the ball slams at the end of that. I just that wrecked me. So I was humbled, for sure,
Brad Robinson 22:11
man, I you know, it's hard for me to pick because, like, I do kettlebell at home, right? So I've got that in the mix. And honestly, day one for me, I felt better than I did field day two. So if I'm talking about challenging, like both days were probably like a six of 10 for me, but the second day, I did have a little more fatigue on me. And so I think that that weighted run, even though I had the rope, like trying to all out, get after it. And I was and Mark, I was actually the zero split. I was a 1740 both ways. And I was really kind of irritated at that, because I was, I was like, There's no way I'm running a lot more downhill. But it was made way twistier. I would say that, that that 2.6 mile run, like had more for me that day specifically, than than the other stuff did, but it was really still a fun challenge.
Spencer Nield 23:08
Yeah, the cardio really did it for me. I'm used to working out and between five and 12 reps and taking a minute or two between sets, the the intensity of everything, not having that rest in there like I normally was tough on me and shows a weakness in my training.
Abbie Arnold 23:28
I think I'm gonna say the hills, the elevation change just through the walking, the 1.3 mile loop that had an elevation change, walking on the campground to get up to our tent, we had to go up this little hill, and that's something Ohio is flat that I've never had to train. I've never had to work for. So I think just the going up and down, just on the day to day walks and stuff, and the hiking and all of that, that was really challenging for me.
Mark D. Williams 24:01
I think the challenging thing was journaling, being silent for 45 minutes. For me was difficult. I'm usually not someone who spends much time in silence. I'm being serious. That was but I actually found it really rewarding. Addison had this thing where he talked about absolute journaling. I was trying to explain that to someone recently, and it was just, we tend to being like myself, being very optimistic. I'm sure if I wrote like a reflective journal, I would probably just like, make it probably rosier than it really is. But he kind of walked through that. If you just say, like, you know, the rock is brown, the sky is blue, like, if you just start naming things that are absolute truths, and you train yourself like you'll be more from a third party view of yourself. You'll be able to, like, identify things in your life. And so I I've paused even a little bit, and have noticed certain things, like, if I'm, you know, having a certain attitude, you know, or presenting something to my kids or at work or whatever, just being more aware of what it is, because I'm not very good at being sort of aware from a from a distance point of view. So I found that. Was sort of interesting and challenging for me, which sounds like a weird one to be challenged by. I think physically, the one I had to put the most effort in, only because Ben was thrown on his A game was that second lap of the weighted run that was harder when he passed me at about, you guys weren't there, but Ben passed me actually at about, shout out to him. He's got that's how you know who did? He's really doing the work. He had his he had a 20 pound dumbbell, like, in a 90 degree like, like, like, you'd carry a hammer. I'm like, how was he running like that? And anyway, the hill got him. And so once I knew he was suffering on the hill, I was able to put the screws on him, but that was physically. It was challenging. But I I wanted to make sure that, and I told Addison, like, he told as we were contemplating, like, some of the things that we're going to do, he's like, you don't want this to be a torture camp. You don't want to make it so people can't do it and break people. He's like, save that for camp 2.0 or a future one where people know, like, I wanted everyone to take things and apply it back, which you guys already answered that question. A number of you are basically ordering kettlebells or taking stuff back, which is super cool to see Brad you something that was non workout related. Maybe I'll start Brad and I were chatting like, what are some things that you'll take back to your business or personal life, having the phones taken away. I'd love to hear people's thought process on if they change their device usages. For me, I put my charger down in the mud room so I no longer have my phone in my room at all, just to get rid of the temptation, I go to bed pretty early, but it was like, hey, this seems like a simple move that I can make to not only encourage my spouse and so that my young kids can see it, but like, set the stage that I don't want the phone to dictate what happens in my home once I get home from work. That was something that I took from the camp. And really, Brad, you maybe you go next. You lit a fire on me, on how to do that. I don't know if you where you're at in that journey.
Brad Robinson 26:48
Yeah. I mean, it was one of the intent, like the intentions that, you know, coming from the Jefferson Ian talk. It was like just became apparent that I didn't miss my phone, like I didn't miss it while I was there. I miss my family. I did, of course, I missed the cadence of communication with my wife. I missed, you know, being able to check in on my kids. My middle son had a game. But as I came away from it, I said, There's got to be a space in my life where it doesn't exist at some in some capacity. And so, you know, I walked away from that, and I think we were on our way back to the tent. I said, I just need to lead by example in my house, I need to remove it from at least the bedroom. That needs to be a safe space. And so I did that, came back on Monday, moved it out of the bedroom. Now, I'll admit we haven't been perfect, but I'm trying to set the tone right, like it's like I have I run an apple ecosystem in my house, right? So all of my remotes are my phone, and so I've, like, pulled out all the remotes, and I'm charging them again, and, like, trying to figure out where they're at, what drawer they're in. So we've been doing that, and it's been, it's been really nice, because it's weird when you're laying in bed. I got a little three year old who jumps all over the place, and now I'm playing with him while he's jumping in bed, and I'm not staring at my phone. It's just one little benefit of it, right? And it's a positive well. And
Mark D. Williams 28:06
one of the benefits as Lance is now your neighbor. He's hacked your remote, and he's changing the station from the house next door. I forgot I told that story. It's such a good story. Lance
Brad Robinson 28:18
come wire my whole house so that I can just have a pad or something. I'll do
Speaker 2 28:21
it for you. We'll travel for food. How about you?
Mark D. Williams 28:25
Spencer, what was something that you've taken back that was maybe non physical, that you sort of applied to either business or your personal life?
Kevin Arnold 28:33
Well, something I learned from the physical that I want to apply is just leading up to boot camp. You just have that goal. So I think probably all of us were ramping up our preparations, getting in a little more workouts, trying to prepare for boot camp. But just after that, just I'm just more aware of doing exercise and having a goal. So now I have a goal to do it with 50k and so just having a goal inspires you to take action, to do something. And so I think within a company like, if you don't have some kind of a goal or something that people are looking forward to, they're just not going to perform. But if you can set some kind of goal and create that vision, then people start doing little things working towards that.
Mark D. Williams 29:21
Yeah, yeah. I think that's a great goal. I know you were chatting with it a little bit on the last day you're talking to Addison and myself. I mean, you were just saying how much you hate running on pavement and until you can get out, you know, on trails with your wife. It's like, how do you prioritize the trail running when you're in an urban environment? That's a that's a challenge. How about you? Gutelli,
Michael Gutielli 29:40
so the phone was a big one. We've been trying really hard the past, really the past year or two with the kids. We don't have phones at dinner, and something Danielle and I implemented is when we get home from work, really, having, you know, two hours of dedicated family time, no phone, no email, nothing. And if we do have to tap back in later, then we just give ourselves an hour to do that. But going. Further down the technology. I'm a big NBA fan. There's a lot of West Coast teams. A lot of the games are later, and we have a TV in the bedroom. Well, I think four days ago, I turned the TV on to finish one of the playoff games, and it wouldn't go on like, there's a little bit of light. I could hear audio, but the screen is shot. And I was like, All right, I ordered another TV, and it's sitting in our foyer right now. And right after I ordered it, I just thought to myself, I don't think I'm going to reinstall this. I'm just going to install a piece of art, and I'm actually sending that TV back. Because what I've realized is not having that TV in the bedroom even for three days. Once I go upstairs, it forces me to just shut off, which means I'm in bed earlier and I'm up earlier. And it was just a small tweak that, yeah, the NBA season will be done in like three weeks. But that still could be a habit that could turn into, oh, I want to finish this movie, or Oh, something else is on, or this is on, and it becomes, it just becomes a trickle effect, so no more TV in the better That's awesome, man. Good job. I mean,
Lance Anderson 31:08
I know there's been a lot of conversation about the phones, and there's the obvious benefits of not being notified continuously of whatever's happening and surely plugging back in after a couple of days and realizing the world hasn't ended, and everything went accordingly, you know, like it was relieving. But one thing I noticed, which I appreciated, was not not just the notifications, but not physically even having the phone on my person was like noticeable, like you felt like you were missing something all the time, because you're just like, okay, like you do your pocket check you. Like, I got my phone, I got my wall, I got my keys, type of thing. But it was like the weight of the phone, like, and how freeing it was to not, like walking around in shorts as a guy and not have like, a however, half pound phone in your pocket was actually nice. And it was like, All right, how much can I not have a burden of my watch on but like, how much more can I utilize a smaller device and not have to carry around the phone? So, like, I went for a run the other day. I was inspired to do the Murph as a result of all the conversations and workouts amongst this group and a different group that I'm in, and I did the Murph. I was like, I don't want to carry my phone, and I had to spend a moment to figure out how to get my watch to play music, because I did want to listen to music while I was running, and I did that. So that's my takeaway from that, which was kind of unexpected. You
Mark D. Williams 32:37
have to appreciate that. You have to tell the story. Kristen just told me yesterday, on our team, tell the group what happened while you were gone from your daughter and the duckies or the little rabbits or whatever. That's a amazing story.
Lance Anderson 32:52
Yeah, inside scoop is like, jokingly, squirrels are like my spirit animal, and kids broke into the house while I was gone. They were with their mom, but they don't have access to the security system. But when I turned my phone on for the first time after a couple of days, my security system is telling me that your system was disarmed, but then I'm seeing it's armed again, and I'm like, What the heck happened? Well, turns out that my business partner Kristen, got a call from one of the kids to get access to the house because they knew the code to get in. And then they planted, because it was my birthday, 46 squirrels like all through the house. It took me several hours to find them all. So
Mark D. Williams 33:38
the way that's such an amazing the way I heard it when Kristen told me this story was one of your daughters said, I will never, I don't know if I'll ever get a chance like this again, because my dad is so wired in I know he's off the grid for three days so I could, because otherwise your security system would have, like, caught them red handed, like, on camera, like, breaking into your house. They're like, this is a free pass to do whatever I want to surprise you. I just think that story is amazing. I
Lance Anderson 34:00
think, I think Kristen offered that to my kids.
Mark D. Williams 34:03
That's what good business partners are for. How about you? Kevin and Abby, what were some things that you've applied, either to your life or to your business from just things that you've observed or heard during your time there?
Abbie Arnold 34:16
I think my biggest takeaway is you have to take care of yourself first. There comes a point where, when you're running a business, it just becomes your whole life, especially when you don't have kids, it is our life. And just to learn that we were off of our phone for three days and the world continued, and just putting yourself first is okay, putting your needs and taking care of yourself is the number one priority.
Kevin Arnold 34:42
My big takeaway came from, I think it was a conversation around the fire of how Brad Levitt runs his life, and that was, as soon as something comes on his plate, he handles it right away. And I've been pretty intentional the past week and a half, trying to just take care of. Things in the moment, rather than putting them off.
Mark D. Williams 35:09
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Brad Robinson 37:17
Elan Elan has one word responses like, that's totally acceptable, and I think it's acceptable in my organization, you get you are requesting an answer, I'll give it to you. I'm very brief and to the point in certain communications, especially if it's a need to know or FYI. And that's what I love about fixer. Like, I know we were talking about it in the car, and I've been rocking fixer for a while. I just love how it automatically pre sorts all those emails into those folders. So it's like, these are the ones I know need attention, and that's it. These are FYS. These are attention. I've already drafted responses to these or whatever, so I use it frequently, and I love that mentality, like you got the answer. Keep it moving.
Mark D. Williams 38:00
Yeah. What would you think would be keep it or kill it? We've talked before that will probably identify probably three places. I think I've already narrowed it down to two. I think when I left you guys a week and a half ago, it was either going to be Costa Rica, Mexico or Montana for the next boot camp. It'll have new challenges, new people. Addison will come back. Kaylee, our videographer, we should probably do a shout out to her at some point. I mean, she was amazing capturing all this. We haven't released the content, but people out there will be getting it soon. I think Montana is going to be ruled out, because unless we did a winter one, I'm kind of thinking a late fall someone, as I've polled people, and I think you guys all got the I don't know if you filled out your surveys yet, but basically it'd be like November time frame, or potentially, like April, May again. Anyway. Just curious, each one of your thoughts, like, what are some things that, either location wise, or some challenges you'd like to see in the next boot camp, underwater, rock, running? Yes, my man, I actually wanted to do that. Addison killed he's like, you're gonna someone's gonna die, stealing
39:00
that from you. I now I want to do it, though,
Mark D. Williams 39:03
so we'll get LAIRD HAMILTON to come teach us how to do it. I think you have to do a little prep game for that one.
Brad Robinson 39:10
If we do Costa Rica, let us bring surfboards? Well, I
Mark D. Williams 39:13
think we would go to a surfing town where we would have surfboards, and we would actually, I think Costa Rica is probably the one I'm leaning towards, just because of the surfing in particular. On the west coast. Not that I'm any great surfer, but I just like being in the water. And I think water is really calming, but also very humbling, because if you don't respect it, it will. I mean, you got to respect water.
39:36
There's monkeys there too. I heard what are you gonna
Mark D. Williams 39:38
how is that gonna fit into boot camp? What are you gonna fight a monkey? Or what
Speaker 4 39:42
aim them Can we, like, play with them? Like, yeah, I'm not sure.
Mark D. Williams 39:45
Have you seen the movie outbreak? I'm not sure playing with monkeys is going to be on the boot camp repertoire. Anyone besides Brad and his bad ideas, anyone else got a good idea that they want to bring to boot camp? I.
40:00
Cold punches,
40:01
yeah, yeah,
Brad Robinson 40:03
yeah, that was definitely that that hit the net sauna and a cold plunge, though, agreed.
Mark D. Williams 40:09
I think I told you about so under canvas, shout out to them. They have amazing situations. So for those that are listening, check out under canvas.com There's 14 locations in the country, not the 22 or 40 that I said it was, but the one that we were going to go to was actually more even higher end. It had sauna and cold plunge. But I was trying to be mindful of cost, especially for this inaugural boot camp, not knowing what people would tolerate to do for a trip like this, because I definitely wanted the sauna and cold punch, because I think it's so therapeutic. Then we we've obviously done, we do the curious builder boot camp, or, sorry, Sonic camp here in January, which will run again. Brad, I know you've been to that, and Kevin and Abby, you came to that this year, so that we'll be doing that again in January. It's almost like a dedicated thermal culture event where it's just a single day. It's not a cold plunge on a cold plunge and then an amazing meal. But I'd love to do it. I don't know. Available a tub, an ice tub is going to be down in Costa Rica. I guess we'll have to figure it
Speaker 1 41:04
out. I did a cold plunge in Costa Rica. It was more manual, though,
Brad Robinson 41:10
like a big horse trough and ice that works exactly, yeah, worst
Mark D. Williams 41:15
community. I won't say his name, poor guy. Don't want to shame him. I was asking people on day one and a half a couple people, or you guys all know who I'm talking about. And he was like, Oh, wow, this is a lot nicer than I thought. He goes. I thought we were all sleeping in one tent. I was like, I can't believe you came to this boot camp. If you thought that with a glamping situation, I did want, I wanted food. Was something that wanted to be really good, and obviously our sleeping situation, I wanted to be a high end experience. The rest of it. You guys are going to get work during the day, but and make sure you gotta recover by eating and sleeping good.
41:49
We having hot water. We were good. Yeah,
Michael Gutielli 41:51
hot water was there. The, you know, the car rides to dinners and whatnot, were awesome. But Mark, you had brought up a couple times, like really wanting to have more of that family style setting for all of our meals. So I think that would be, that'd be just another fun way to just kind of even tighten the communication, the community a bit more, the group size. That's probably what you'll have to do. Yeah.
Mark D. Williams 42:12
I mean, the goal originally was to get to a 20. I was going to cap it at 2012 and it being about the perfect number, really, but I wanted a dedicated chef that made all the meals at one long table, so that we all every meal was on site. That was the appeal of like a ranch in Montana, up in the mountains, where you would never leave, and so it'd be even more remote. I mean, obviously sometimes each location you're kind of figuring out what works and what doesn't work, but I sort of like the isolation approach from a town and just sort of being completely remote. So as we look for different spots to do this in, that's a big priority of me, because I feel like when you get away from the commonality, I mean, obviously we took away the phones, but even if you just get away from car rides, will that end up being one of the most meaningful things that happened? Maybe we should just do a trip to like Iowa. We'll just drive around in corn fields and just spend a lot of time in a car together, if that was everyone's high point. But anyway, we'll come up with some cool ideas, and obviously you guys will be a part of it. So thanks. Why do you think wellness is having such a it's day right now, I feel like you can't go anywhere, and I know I'm probably preaching to the choir here, so we're gonna get a lot of biased answers. But I feel like regardless of where I look, you know, corporate America is signaling that wellness is important. I think you look at the explosion of fitness brands and running brands and apparel brands and food and drink, any thoughts on why we're seeing this show up everywhere all the time? Or is it just me? Yeah,
Kevin Arnold 43:34
I think we've kind of hit a point with technology and everything where there's only so much advancement, like we went from 20 years ago being very basic and things to being very advanced, so quick that I think now everybody's catching up with the fact of, okay, maybe this wasn't a good idea, that we've been doing this. And rather than trying to go out and invent new things, it's let's focus on what we have right now and make the best of longevity on everything.
Michael Gutielli 44:06
I think it's a couple things. If you go back to 2020 we know when COVID really hit the world, people that worked in corporate America that they were home and you didn't have, you didn't have the camaraderie of, you know, in office, you weren't walking to lunches, you weren't mobile, and then obviously all of the negative aspects of COVID and the unfortunate deaths that occurred, I think that put in perspective life and and put put a microscope on health, and you pair that with the goodness of social media, which is having a platform for fitness and health influencers, reliable information output. You pair those together, and I think it's, it's created a movement right now. Well, then I it's obviously a good movement. But that's, you know, going back to 2020, and looking before that like we just didn't see the priority on mental mental health, but also the. Physical health, which goes hand in hand,
Brad Robinson 45:03
yeah, I think it's like a moment of reflection for for humanity, almost right, or at least us in America, who are used to running this race. And like you said, everybody was just kind of doing what they always been doing. And then having that moment to pause and reflect, you began to realize, like, wow, I stopped eating all this garbage, and all of a sudden I feel good. Hmm, maybe I should continue to eat well, Oh, wow. I now have time to exercise. Oh, wow. I'm really feeling good. Maybe I need to do that often and so. And I think that it kind of became culture too, right? Like it's, it's cool to be healthy now. It's cool to, you know, like, athleisure became a thing really, kind of through all this too. So like, people are looking more athletic all the time, you know. So I think it's, it's part culture, but I think part of it is, is like people just want to feel better, and they know now that the data is there, like, all you have to do is eat well and exercise like it's pretty simple. So who can do that the best? Now, that's really what it is. I think.
Mark D. Williams 46:09
Do you think in terms of building like a home? What you know, for the builders out there that are listening, how do you think wellness can be from a marketing tool? I don't want this. I won't I mean, for those that are interested, you can go to misah, who's calm, and you can check out what I'm doing here in Minnesota. But I don't want this to be about me. I'll talk enough about Misa Hus future podcast episodes. But what are you seeing as both brands commitment to wellness and the brands that you work with and the products that you put in homes? And how often are either your clients yourself or a brand partner somehow discussing wellness in the creation of a home.
Brad Robinson 46:45
I don't see many brands talking about it, but the focus from the homeowners is definitely there, and it's relevant. Right topics about indoor air quality, water quality and sustainability are prevalent in every conversation during the planning phase now we still hear some conversations about off gassing. So what products are going to off gas before they enter the home for the first time? Those are some of the questions. But I don't know if the brands have an ability to manage the narrative that well, unless they're making a product that specifically helps or enhance right like, so you think about brone, or like the ERV systems, or you think about and like indoor air quality specifically, like dedicated to humidification in the house, like what we have down here in high humidity zones. So controlling the environment is definitely a part of the equation, and keeping that air clean is certainly something here that we hear a lot about
Mark D. Williams 47:42
Spencer. Do you find that you're down in Arizona and you guys build some amazing homes? How often are your clients bringing forward wellness requests, or how often are you bringing it up to your clients and design? I
Spencer Nield 47:56
think that's a big part of it. What Brad said about air quality, it's very important. Like the ERV systems, we have a lot of clients that want home gyms. We talk about lighting systems, circadian rhythms. Lance could probably tell us all about that. But I feel like people are building Smarter Homes that they're going to be using because they're there more. I mean, people are getting out, but they're also living in their homes more. And so having that home gym, having all of those things where their quality of life is better just in their homes, that's a big part of the design right now.
Lance Anderson 48:35
Yeah. Spencer, hit it too. Like when I think of our traditional list of technology products we provide. You know, there's not a lot of wellness into it, until we start thinking about lighting. And like was mentioned, the circadian rhythms are a big one for mood and mental health, I believe. But then the placement of the light is also an important thing too. Like we always talk about aging in place as we get older, having light down low in the knee or the toe space of a home just makes it easier for balance and navigation, and you're not tripping on anything but those sorts of things. But lighting is a big one around it.
Mark D. Williams 49:16
Shout out to some of Brad knows who this company is, but Pentair is actually in Minnesota, and I just actually toured their headquarters today. We're going to be working on some stuff at Misa, who's in particular with them. And you know, they had just came to me and said, you know, we're really attracted to what you're doing in the market around this home based on wellness. And they're going to be launching a product here shortly that not only, I mean, most of us are familiar with, like reverse osmosis or carbon filters or water softeners, they're going to have a whole house system that does all those things. But as well as replacement of minerals, and I know gutelli and Lance and Brad specifically, you guys were talking about vitamins and supplements and different things that you already use in your natural life. Physically, it's called biohacking. Thing, to have a to feel better, to do better, for a variety of reasons. But I think the home, you know, we spend the majority of our time in our home, obviously when we're sleeping, predominantly, but also interacting with it. And water is something that we obviously ingest, no different than air. And I'm really interested, I think there's a huge force multiplier in marketing for the brands out there, not only the brands, but the builders that are going to be at the forefront of this and really lead this message. This is something that will set you apart, and this is something that your message will sound different. It doesn't have to be your whole home based around it, but at least acknowledging like, hey, we have a model home, or we this is how we do our process. I think clients are getting ready to be very in tune with what we're putting in our home. So I think this wellness thing is only going to continue to build and build and build, and I think it's up to us as an industry to really Captivate on it, especially because obviously we're all biased here. We just went to boot camp. We're probably pretty interested in our natural health.
50:58
Anyway. Yeah,
Brad Robinson 51:00
there's a really cool use case for this. If you look deeper into sort of the health influencer side, there's a guy out there named Eric Hinman who's building a house in Austin, Texas right now. And when you look at it surface level, you're like, oh, wow, look. He's paying attention to the air pocket indoor. He's using a zip system. And then you dig down a little bit deeper, he's got a sophisticated air filtration systems in it. And then you look a little deeper, and then it's the entire house. Is based on him using as a place that's a retreat, like it's a wellness retreat. So, you know, integrated wellness, sauna, coal plunge, full gym. It's like, pretty, pretty sharp, but like that house. Like, if you just look him up on Instagram, he's posted a couple of times about that specific house. That's a great use case for what a healthy house can be, too. I mean, a little bit different, right, than what you're doing with misahuz. It's definitely like for a single family environment, like what you're doing is way more appropriate what he's doing for like, a wellness retreat, kind of place like that is maybe a different piece, but it's really cool to look at that house that he's building as something kind of unique, like that too.
Mark D. Williams 52:11
We had someone Lance recently speaking of like the lighting or the ketra that does the circadian rhythm. For those that aren't aware of what that is, Lance, can you can hit him up at Edmund one he'll be happy to tell you about it. But I think we had a client who gets migraines terribly, and we're doing a project right now where all the lighting specs she had to go try every single light out in the showroom of her AV partner. And I'd never seen anyone that sensitive to lighting, and it was really informative of me to maybe ask questions differently on the front end. Now she chose us not for those reasons, but having that message so that clients would know who to turn to. Like obviously, if you know physically, you would go to doctors and you would go to whatever your ailment is. But sometimes people don't know. People don't know what they don't know, and a lot of times our clients, when they have something like this, are almost educating us to go to our partners like a lance or somebody else and say, Hey, I have a client with this issue. Can help me solve it? Yeah, no problem. This is what I can do for you. So I think that we need to ask better questions and ask more of our partners, like, what should we be putting in our home? Or like, you know, I'm kind of the golden question is, if you had an issue, what would you put in your home? And it's like everyone has seen, I'm not knocking spray foam necessarily, but I guess I sort of am, but those guys are wearing full body suits and respirators like that. Clearly, is not okay to breathe just casually and to think that spray foam is the end all be, all to all things. It has its place. It's great at air sealing, but, you know, we are putting 1000s of products in people's homes like we do have to some responsibility to be educated, and we can't know at all, but I think that's where we have to lean on our partners and say, hey, help us. Help us get there. What do you recommend? How can we solve this problem?
Lance Anderson 53:53
We're here. We're here to help as a partner, just to firm up what you're saying, even about the migraine aspect of it. As you guys know, I just went through this process of building a house myself as a client, basically. And one of my main requests to our company, Aurora, one that does all the lighting, was I'm really sensitive, and do get migraines on a monthly basis, but I'm sensitive to glare. So the main spaces throughout the house. Obviously, I'm in the garage right now, but the main spaces throughout the house are primarily lit by indirect lighting. So all linears, you can't see any of the filaments. I can walk and navigate the whole house during the night without turning on any traditional architectural lights. There is architectural lights in there because they are needed for service but but I mostly navigate it with all the indirect linear lights. It just helps, not trigger any migraines.
Mark D. Williams 54:50
I think recently, we've seen triple pane windows for a long time. We're obviously touted further energy efficiencies, which is right and true. But I have two clients right now. One is Mesa, who's. And another one is this other client, where sound is a big one. I only think of that as, like, boot camp. Like, one of the things that stood out when they're at Boot Camp is how quiet everything is, but how, I don't know if you guys notice this at night, when you're going to sleep, you know, we went to bed pretty early, and you'd hear people walking on gravel or And granted, we're in a tent, right? So there's not canvas tent. Doesn't have a lot of insulation value, but like, I could hear people could hear people walking. And my point is, I don't think we spend enough time talking about sound. I know I don't, and it's something that I'm sort of passionate about now, as I bring up sound, I don't ever want to give the illusion that my clients are going to get a soundproof house and it's completely isolated, like, that's sort of disorienting perfectly. I think there's actually in Minnesota, there's actually a completely soundproof room. And there's video YouTubes of it, where it removes all sound, and people can't stand it for more than just like, a few minutes, it's like no sound, like a complete absence of sound is super disorientating to your balance. And I'll send you guys the video after. It's pretty wild. Anyway, I digress, talking to our clients about sound, you know, maybe you have young kids. I've had some clients that say, Hey, I want cast iron pipes put in because I don't want to hear toilets flush or running water. I just think, I think the questions just need to be asked, and some of these natural things that we're pursuing can lead us there in a different way,
Brad Robinson 56:14
1,000% I mean, as a custom builder, those are the questions that I think it's expected of us to ask, right? And I don't Spencer, I'm curious, because you guys don't have many second floors in your homes, right? Like you guys are mostly like big, sprawling, resort style ranches,
Spencer Nield 56:31
yeah, for the most part, that we have some that have second floors or even some basements. Yeah,
Brad Robinson 56:35
yeah. Are you being asked? We're being asked a lot to do cast iron drops. But then not only the cast iron drops, but we're using a closed cell spray foam around the cast iron drops. Have you heard of that yet?
Spencer Nield 56:47
No, that would have not heard of that. Yeah,
Brad Robinson 56:51
because they're gonna sweat naturally. So that's one of the other factors of it too. Is like, I mean, I think it's really just more for more sound deadening. But in the Charleston market, we get that pretty frequently. Thought that was pretty well, and then triple pain. You guys used a lot of triple pain. I mean, when you're up in that kind of like Elevate, let's say you're in Paradise Valley, you already have some elevation. Are you worried about sound up there? Or do they want it to be a little bit more? Do they want more sound passing through.
Spencer Nield 57:22
No, I don't think I haven't really had a home where sound was a particular issue, but just having that dual pain or triple pain is important just because of the heat and all the heat gain. I will say something like, Mark, come back to your question when you're talking about just like, Why the focus on health and wellness and like, how does that apply to home building? To me like it's a function of cost. I feel like we have internet and all these things, and the cost for people to become healthier, it's becoming easier and more affordable for people to be healthier now, and I think for us as home builders, these smart homes and all of these things that people want are becoming more affordable, or we have to make them more affordable so that people can have these ERVs and all these systems in it, because starter homes or things like that, like they're not going to have all of these amenities that might be considered healthy, or have the fancy lighting systems and things like that. So as the costs come down to where more people can afford it or enjoy it, I think that's going to be important as builders make it more
Mark D. Williams 58:28
attainable. Hello, I want to respect everybody's time. Appreciate everyone coming on and giving everyone a recap of the curious builder boot camp. Again. Thanks for tuning in at the curious builder podcast, and if you want to reach out to everyone, we'll have them in the show notes when the episode airs. Thanks again for joining the curious builder podcast. We've had the podcast now for two and a half years, coming up on three, and I get questions all the time through DMS, on Instagram, emails, as well as to our account. Maybe we've had a guest on where a question has come up that really triggers an idea for you. If you didn't know, we have a one to one consulting session through the curious builder platform on our website, curious builder.com or curious builder podcast.com you can click on the one to one and schedule one hour of my time, and we will simply just sit down, have a virtual call, and we'll talk about any business idea that you want, marketing, branding, operations, really, anything that helps you and helps your business. Maybe it's a guest that you had on that you want an introduction to. Maybe it's a guest we've had on and they brought up something about scaling or hiring and firing or anything that might resonate with you as a business owner, that you want to expand and talk on. We'd be happy to do it again. That can all be found in our consulting page. It's really been really enjoyable for me as well, to work directly with people. We've had probably 10 or 15 of these over the last year. A lot of times it's contacts or people to set them up in a way that makes them successful. And so if you're interested in that, please reach out to us at the curious builder podcast.com. Thanks for tuning in the curious builder podcast. If you like this episode, do us a favor. Share. Share it with three other business owners. The best way that we can spread what we're doing is by word of mouth, and with your help, we can continue to help other curious builders expand their business. Please share it with your friends. Like and review online, and thanks again for tuning in.
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